Battleground Flag Games Broken State : DK Wings Need Cool-down or Other Treatment

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not every skill needs to be nerfed to accommodate your build. My advice is not to stand 40 meters away while trying to snipe and draining shot relic carriers

There has to be a balance when it comes to Flag Games and DK Wings Spell reflection.

Oh you are class Representative and not understand issues, Its not my build or yours but Magicka Range spell reflection concerns,

I wish ZOS chooses Class Representative who understands players issues and explain proper ways rather then "Your build blah blah"

@ZOS_GinaBruno

And you think that balance is having a class full of melee skills to have their ranged defense taken away? If we do what you ask and not allow them to have wings up then all the snipers and draining shot spammers will just stand 40 meters away and ping them with impunity.

BGs is a team endeavor, defensive skills like wings force groups to vary their composition to be versatile. By removing ranged counters, you're just encouraging moar snipes and sorcs spamming endless fury, removing the need for strong melee. Vary the group comp, get some melee in there and have the ranged players attack the non DKs to support their melee allies who are going after the relic carrier.

90% of my play time is as a magicka DD for the past 5 years and I never once asked on these forums to nerf DK wings, and I see zero need to do so in what is a team/group setting. I understand full well the mechanics.

I do understand players' issues: specifically those DK players you just want to flat nerf, strip of their class identity without even bothering to list a token compensation.

I really Not appreciate your response and the way of handling and replying to players.

Not interested any further to put opinion as Class Representative himself not understanding issue, my request does not mean to nerf skill but find optimum way so Flag games are not becoming DK pocket games and give equal chance/opportunity to other classes

Since when are class-reps not allowed to have opinions about balance?? They're players as well and don't need to be impartial about everything

The way Class Rep responded not nicer,

He should respect players and explain things in better way, i was shocked to see Stop Nerf Nerf! My post is to find a solution of issue in Flag Games. Everyone welcome to put suggestions not derailing discussion.

I do not want to debate, Thank you for your kind response.

Parrot1986 · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not every skill needs to be nerfed to accommodate your build. My advice is not to stand 40 meters away while trying to snipe and draining shot relic carriers

There has to be a balance when it comes to Flag Games and DK Wings Spell reflection.

Oh you are class Representative and not understand issues, Its not my build or yours but Magicka Range spell reflection concerns,

I wish ZOS chooses Class Representative who understands players issues and explain proper ways rather then "Your build blah blah"

@ZOS_GinaBruno

And you think that balance is having a class full of melee skills to have their ranged defense taken away? If we do what you ask and not allow them to have wings up then all the snipers and draining shot spammers will just stand 40 meters away and ping them with impunity.

BGs is a team endeavor, defensive skills like wings force groups to vary their composition to be versatile. By removing ranged counters, you're just encouraging moar snipes and sorcs spamming endless fury, removing the need for strong melee. Vary the group comp, get some melee in there and have the ranged players attack the non DKs to support their melee allies who are going after the relic carrier.

90% of my play time is as a magicka DD for the past 5 years and I never once asked on these forums to nerf DK wings, and I see zero need to do so in what is a team/group setting. I understand full well the mechanics.

I do understand players' issues: specifically those DK players you just want to flat nerf, strip of their class identity without even bothering to list a token compensation.

I really Not appreciate your response and the way of handling and replying to players.

Not interested any further to put opinion as Class Representative himself not understanding issue, my request does not mean to nerf skill but find optimum way so Flag games are not becoming DK pocket games and give equal chance/opportunity to other classes

Since when are class-reps not allowed to have opinions about balance?? They're players as well and don't need to be impartial about everything

The way Class Rep responded not nicer,

He should respect players and explain things in better way, i was shocked to see Stop Nerf Nerf! My post is to find a solution of issue in Flag Games.

I do not want to debate, Thank you for your kind response.

Why make a thread on a forum then? There’s plenty things wrong about BGs that should be focussed on way before wings, especially when your solution of nerfing sacrifices an entire skill for a very specific situation.

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not every skill needs to be nerfed to accommodate your build. My advice is not to stand 40 meters away while trying to snipe and draining shot relic carriers

There has to be a balance when it comes to Flag Games and DK Wings Spell reflection.

Oh you are class Representative and not understand issues, Its not my build or yours but Magicka Range spell reflection concerns,

I wish ZOS chooses Class Representative who understands players issues and explain proper ways rather then "Your build blah blah"

@ZOS_GinaBruno

And you think that balance is having a class full of melee skills to have their ranged defense taken away? If we do what you ask and not allow them to have wings up then all the snipers and draining shot spammers will just stand 40 meters away and ping them with impunity.

BGs is a team endeavor, defensive skills like wings force groups to vary their composition to be versatile. By removing ranged counters, you're just encouraging moar snipes and sorcs spamming endless fury, removing the need for strong melee. Vary the group comp, get some melee in there and have the ranged players attack the non DKs to support their melee allies who are going after the relic carrier.

90% of my play time is as a magicka DD for the past 5 years and I never once asked on these forums to nerf DK wings, and I see zero need to do so in what is a team/group setting. I understand full well the mechanics.

I do understand players' issues: specifically those DK players you just want to flat nerf, strip of their class identity without even bothering to list a token compensation.

I really Not appreciate your response and the way of handling and replying to players.

Not interested any further to put opinion as Class Representative himself not understanding issue, my request does not mean to nerf skill but find optimum way so Flag games are not becoming DK pocket games and give equal chance/opportunity to other classes

Since when are class-reps not allowed to have opinions about balance?? They're players as well and don't need to be impartial about everything

The way Class Rep responded not nicer,

He should respect players and explain things in better way, i was shocked to see Stop Nerf Nerf! My post is to find a solution of issue in Flag Games.

I do not want to debate, Thank you for your kind response.

Why make a thread on a forum then? There’s plenty things wrong about BGs that should be focussed on way before wings, especially when your solution of nerfing sacrifices an entire skill for a very specific situation.

Its not necessarily a nerf request like Cloak, Bolt Escape does not work while carrying relic or ball, another solution to be also have Wings not working.

Dashmatt · January 2019

Never seen a DK wing-spammer live longer than, say, a Templar with the resto ult and Earthgore or whatever else.

Not everything is reflectable. If you have any melee builds on your team that DK will get wrecked casting wings repeatedly. If you have a bunch of range users they won’t be able to sustain it for long. It’s not a cheap skill.

Tetrafy · January 2019

We just buffed sings, are you being serious?

Tetrafy · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Matthros wrote: »

Another nerf DK wings post? Read the many other posts about how to counter wings and adapt.

Ok, please explain counter:

I am on Magicka Range NB, Sorcerer, Templar so what are counters while DK running with Relic or Chaos Ball?

My lighting attack, most of range skills (causing snares/stun etc.) are reflecting while DK spamming wings.

Please do not tell to slot Melee Skills or stop doing light attack.

Rune prison? Meteor? Run sorc ulti for stun? Incap strike from night blade? Holy you cant be serious.

Tetrafy · January 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not every skill needs to be nerfed to accommodate your build. My advice is not to stand 40 meters away while trying to snipe and draining shot relic carriers

There has to be a balance when it comes to Flag Games and DK Wings Spell reflection.

Oh you are class Representative and not understand issues, Its not my build or yours but Magicka Range spell reflection concerns,

I wish ZOS chooses Class Representative who understands players issues and explain proper ways rather then "Your build blah blah"

@ZOS_GinaBruno

And you think that balance is having a class full of melee skills to have their ranged defense taken away? If we do what you ask and not allow them to have wings up then all the snipers and draining shot spammers will just stand 40 meters away and ping them with impunity.

BGs is a team endeavor, defensive skills like wings force groups to vary their composition to be versatile. By removing ranged counters, you're just encouraging moar snipes and sorcs spamming endless fury, removing the need for strong melee. Vary the group comp, get some melee in there and have the ranged players attack the non DKs to support their melee allies who are going after the relic carrier.

90% of my play time is as a magicka DD for the past 5 years and I never once asked on these forums to nerf DK wings, and I do not see a pressing need to do so in what is a team/group setting. I understand full well the mechanics.

I do understand players' issues: specifically those DK players you just want to flat nerf, strip of their class identity without even bothering to list a token compensation.

It's because they are just refusing to get better thats all it is.

kypranb14_ESO · January 2019

As a ranged Magblade main who plays Battlegrounds PVP exclusively, and doesn't have a proper counter for DKs slotted, I hate coming up against this.

However, that doesn't mean it's not balanced, and doesn't justify a nerf. Annoying? Definetly. Overpowered? Not even close.

Best case scenario, give reflects the cloak treatment. (You can't use them while carrying Chaosball/Relic) I don't even think that is necessary though.

DeadlyRecluse · January 2019

Yeah, it's almost like having a tank carry the ball is a good strategy, especially if they use abilities that make them avoid or absorb damage.

kypranb14_ESO · January 2019

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Yeah, it's almost like having a tank carry the ball is a good strategy, especially if they use abilities that make them avoid or absorb damage.

7.8/10 Too much savage.

On a serious note though, I agree. I've seen tanky Nightblades do just as good as DK's carrying the objective. It's all about the build!

LonePirate · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Carrying relic, or Chaos Ball, spamming wings + Sword and Board Ultimate is making worse for range players and giving DK very unfair advantage.

If not cooldown then do not let use wings skill while carrying Relic or Ball!

Templar Eclipse can be CC break and have cooldown why leaving DK Wings + Sword and Board over performing.

I would agree to a DK Wings nerf if and only if we can also implement a nerf to the Cloak skill for Nightblades, If you are going to nerf one class, you might as well nerf another. Fair is fair!

InvictusApollo · January 2019

There was completely nothing disrespectfull in what Joy_Division said. OP is just salty that even class rep is against his bad idea. Because it is a bad idea. And i'm telling you this as a ranged dd main. My magsorc has no counter to them except of tactics. My magblade has no counter to them except of tactics. My magplar can only spam Jesus beam that tickles tanks.
Beside you and that dk wing spammer there are also 10 other people so if you can't kill the spammer, let others focus him and kill them afterwards.

Chubarov_S · January 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not every skill needs to be nerfed to accommodate your build. My advice is not to stand 40 meters away while trying to snipe and draining shot relic carriers

You know that absolutely all long-range attacks of MagNB (Swallow Soul, Crippling Grasp, Impale, Merciless Resolve) are projectiles? If MagDK uses wings 100% of the time, it is invulnerable to this class. On this for MagNB no one plays in PVP.

Beardimus · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Carrying relic, or Chaos Ball, spamming wings + Sword and Board Ultimate is making worse for range players and giving DK very unfair advantage.

If not cooldown then do not let use wings skill while carrying Relic or Ball!

Templar Eclipse can be CC break and have cooldown why leaving DK Wings + Sword and Board over performing.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler kindly look into this.

Wings off while carrying would make sense, akin to other mitigation forms ball of lighting, roll dodge etc

Wings annoy me in general, but they are my build nemesis so its fair enough, and i accept that, just have to adapt or leave em flapping about. But when it breaks a game type it should be looked at in that nuance.

That said the tether tanks and snipe glitching teams are a bigger annoyance for me right now

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

LonePirate wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Carrying relic, or Chaos Ball, spamming wings + Sword and Board Ultimate is making worse for range players and giving DK very unfair advantage.

If not cooldown then do not let use wings skill while carrying Relic or Ball!

Templar Eclipse can be CC break and have cooldown why leaving DK Wings + Sword and Board over performing.

I would agree to a DK Wings nerf if and only if we can also implement a nerf to the Cloak skill for Nightblades, If you are going to nerf one class, you might as well nerf another. Fair is fair!

Well if wings not work under AOE or if we can mark and wings stop working that's fine,

Cloak is mostly abused in PVP by stam players, sets like shackle breaker gives them enough magicka to cloak. Their high burst in PVP is no way compare to mNB. There melee crazy bleeds and spinwin2win are not either reflected by wings

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

As a ranged Magblade main who plays Battlegrounds PVP exclusively, and doesn't have a proper counter for DKs slotted, I hate coming up against this.

However, that doesn't mean it's not balanced, and doesn't justify a nerf. Annoying? Definetly. Overpowered? Not even close.

Best case scenario, give reflects the cloak treatment. (You can't use them while carrying Chaosball/Relic) I don't even think that is necessary though.

Exactly this is what i am proposing in 2nd but most of forum players are really very negative and do not want to discuss but start bashing blah blah calling for nerf!

ESO forum community is becoming very negative and bash others very often, may be ZOS need good moderation of posts and giving warning to players bashing others and adding nothing useful.

Savos_Saren · January 2019

Chubarov_S wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Not every skill needs to be nerfed to accommodate your build. My advice is not to stand 40 meters away while trying to snipe and draining shot relic carriers

You know that absolutely all long-range attacks of MagNB (Swallow Soul, Crippling Grasp, Impale, Merciless Resolve) are projectiles? If MagDK uses wings 100% of the time, it is invulnerable to this class. On this for MagNB no one plays in PVP.

If a MagDK keeps wings up 100% he has no magic after the other 8 battle grounds enemies keep spamming attacks at him after 30 seconds.

InvictusApollo · January 2019

Ever since I read this thread I began focusing on all of my encounters with DKs that used wings. All of my builds are ranged and... I had little problems with them. Even during a duel with a mag dk who spammed them. The trick is to just wait for a moment of opportunity. You can even use Auramastery to see if your enemy has some skills that reflect projectiles. It is really not an issue whether in BG, Cyro or even in duels.

Wings don't last long and they cost a lot. I actually want my enemies to spam them so that they have no mana to attack me.

Iskiab · January 2019

I have an idea. Let’s get rid of all defensive abilities, then get rid of all cc. Get rid of healing too.

ESO can change names and call itself a crappy shooter with lag. That might *** some people up about MMO mechanics in pvp.

max_only · January 2019

What Dk has 100% uptime on wings?

I don’t think there needs to be a change to wings at all. And I’m not a DK fanboy either

Onebitsoul · January 2019

You have terrible ideas. @Lord_Dexter

kind_hero · January 2019

@Lord_Dexter There won't be any elitism in my reply, because I am an average player that does pvp from time to time. It also happens that most often I pvp with two magicka chars, my main is a magblade, pvp rank 17. So, from that perspective, I can say the DK wings are of little concern compared to other issues (in my case, snipe, bleeds, poison attacks, etc). You come across as whining now, after you have been berated by the class rep. He has a point. You can disagree, but if you do, come with your own arguments or proposals, rather than crying to nerf the DK.

Besides, your target should not be the tank, this is the logic of a dungeon boss, which focuses on the tank, while the rest of the party finishes him off

Also, there is a resource cost for wings, so the DK can't keep it up for ever.

As a mNB, my feedback is more in the direction that magicka nightblades lack burst damage in their core skills, and we need to build it up, also the defences are situational and easy to counter. All this related to pvp, not pve, where the class shines.

WoppaBoem · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Matthros wrote: »

Another nerf DK wings post? Read the many other posts about how to counter wings and adapt.

Ok, please explain counter:

I am on Magicka Range NB, Sorcerer, Templar so what are counters while DK running with Relic or Chaos Ball?

My lighting attack, most of range skills (causing snares/stun etc.) are reflecting while DK spamming wings.

Please do not tell to slot Melee Skills or stop doing light attack.

Cripple does not reflect nor does force pulse this for the MagBlade.

biggda76 · January 2019

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Matthros wrote: »

Another nerf DK wings post? Read the many other posts about how to counter wings and adapt.

Ok, please explain counter:

I am on Magicka Range NB, Sorcerer, Templar so what are counters while DK running with Relic or Chaos Ball?

My lighting attack, most of range skills (causing snares/stun etc.) are reflecting while DK spamming wings.

Please do not tell to slot Melee Skills or stop doing light attack.

Cripple does not reflect nor does force pulse this for the MagBlade.

Pls don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about cripple gets reflected

Force pulse doesn't cool, kill someone with just flame lash spam let's see how does that work out will you

vesselwiththepestle · January 2019

You always have elemental blockade, which additionally proccs enchants. Not to speak of class abilities which aren't projectiles. You can apply pressure to a dk, so he has to use Vigor instead of wings. Keep in mind that DK's don't have a purge. Apply status effects on him.

You can't expect that a build works in every situation against every possible build, especially if you build around one type of damage (projectiles). If you think you have so much trouble with wings spamming DKs, then you should act accordingly and use abilities which aren't projectiles, even if it lessens your efficiency against other players.

WoppaBoem · January 2019

I agree with above, I am melee range magdk and needed to really work to get good AoE damage and ranged attacks. I managed to do this and my build is awesome. Try to think of all scenario's you encounter and work towards having an answer for most of these situations.

MajBludd · January 2019

What class do you play op, nb sniper?

Xarc · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

If not cooldown then do not let use wings skill while carrying Relic or Ball!

WoppaBoem · January 2019

biggda76 wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Matthros wrote: »

Another nerf DK wings post? Read the many other posts about how to counter wings and adapt.

Ok, please explain counter:

I am on Magicka Range NB, Sorcerer, Templar so what are counters while DK running with Relic or Chaos Ball?

My lighting attack, most of range skills (causing snares/stun etc.) are reflecting while DK spamming wings.

Please do not tell to slot Melee Skills or stop doing light attack.

Cripple does not reflect nor does force pulse this for the MagBlade.

Pls don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about cripple gets reflected

Force pulse doesn't cool, kill someone with just flame lash spam let's see how does that work out will you

Play magblade myself sometimes in BG never noticed cripple being reflected but oke. My approach is to target other members of the team and once the dk is in offense wings up time will not be, stun and get him.

StamDK wings up time is very expensive if they can keep this up all of the time then they most have sufferred there offense by a lot. This skill is very similiar to cloak and shields. They are effective however it can be counterred many builds in this game and many situations. If you dedicted yourself to only 1 approach accept you will always find your impossible to beat appontent in this game

biggda76 · January 2019

WoppaBoem wrote: »

biggda76 wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Matthros wrote: »

Another nerf DK wings post? Read the many other posts about how to counter wings and adapt.

Ok, please explain counter:

I am on Magicka Range NB, Sorcerer, Templar so what are counters while DK running with Relic or Chaos Ball?

My lighting attack, most of range skills (causing snares/stun etc.) are reflecting while DK spamming wings.

Please do not tell to slot Melee Skills or stop doing light attack.

Cripple does not reflect nor does force pulse this for the MagBlade.

Pls don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about cripple gets reflected

Force pulse doesn't cool, kill someone with just flame lash spam let's see how does that work out will you

Play magblade myself sometimes in BG never noticed cripple being reflected but oke. My approach is to target other members of the team and once the dk is in offense wings up time will not be, stun and get him.

StamDK wings up time is very expensive if they can keep this up all of the time then they most have sufferred there offense by a lot. This skill is very similiar to cloak and shields. They are effective however it can be counterred many builds in this game and many situations. If you dedicted yourself to only 1 approach accept you will always find your impossible to beat appontent in this game

Cool, but no other skill in game negates entire playstyle

)))