If we are offered a free race change token, shouldn't we also get a free name change token?

Davor · January 2019

theyancey wrote: »

Yeah, I have an orc toon named in the traditional orcish tradition. That won't work so well as an Altmer or Nord, will it now?

Why not? How come you are being racist? After all, not everyone born in Orc land (Orsinium it's called?) is an Orc. I am sure Dunmer, Altmer, and every other race have been born there or an Orc found a baby, didn't want it to die and took it in their family and raised them as their own.

VaranisArano · January 2019

Davor wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Someone is given an inch, but yet asks for a mile. Sheesh.

And people wonder why Zenimax doesn't talk to us. Pretty shameful. What is next, we have are given a free slot, but you want a costume token to go with it as well?

What in Peter's name are you talking about? That they give us a free racial change to change something they did, that worked well for years? Somehow people are entitled for asking to be able to change their names to keep somewhat their characters that they worked on for years and, somehow, that is shameful?

Get it through your skull, ZOS is not your friend. ZOS is not somebody you gotta appease. They sell a product, we buy it. If they do radical changes, which they did, they shoud allow people to change stuff properly atleast for one character. This isn't some retail mom and pop shop that we should care about, this is a corporation to make its money. Stop being a sheeple and posting stuff for karma.

Wait what? Me defend Zenimax? Never. I give credit when credit is due, but Zenimax is not due any credit. Thing is though my point stands. Someone gets gets something for free, but yet wants more. If Zenimax didn't give anything, I am sure the person wouldn't be asking for a name change token but a race change token. So, given an inch but takes a mile.

How on Earth am I defending Zenimax here?

Those of us who want a name change token are pointing out that, within the context of this being an MMORPG, an important part of the RPG is character names. We're also pointing out the Elder Scrolls has particular naming conventions for its races.

Therefore, while ZOS offering a free Race Change token in the wake of massive racial changes looks like a generous gesture that admittedly they didn't have to do...

...it also means that anyone who uses it has to also buy a Name Change token to change previously lore appropriate names.

Are we asking for more than ZOS offered?
Yes.

Is it unreasonable?
Depends on your opinion of ZOS massively changing racial passives midstream, your willingness to reroll characters, and whether or not you named your characters according to their race.

For myself, I'm not sure I will use the free race change token. But if I do, all of my characters were named according to their original race and would need a Name Change token.

Davor · January 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Someone is given an inch, but yet asks for a mile. Sheesh.

And people wonder why Zenimax doesn't talk to us. Pretty shameful. What is next, we have are given a free slot, but you want a costume token to go with it as well?

What in Peter's name are you talking about? That they give us a free racial change to change something they did, that worked well for years? Somehow people are entitled for asking to be able to change their names to keep somewhat their characters that they worked on for years and, somehow, that is shameful?

Get it through your skull, ZOS is not your friend. ZOS is not somebody you gotta appease. They sell a product, we buy it. If they do radical changes, which they did, they shoud allow people to change stuff properly atleast for one character. This isn't some retail mom and pop shop that we should care about, this is a corporation to make its money. Stop being a sheeple and posting stuff for karma.

Wait what? Me defend Zenimax? Never. I give credit when credit is due, but Zenimax is not due any credit. Thing is though my point stands. Someone gets gets something for free, but yet wants more. If Zenimax didn't give anything, I am sure the person wouldn't be asking for a name change token but a race change token. So, given an inch but takes a mile.

How on Earth am I defending Zenimax here?

Those of us who want a name change token are pointing out that, within the context of this being an MMORPG, an important part of the RPG is character names. We're also pointing out the Elder Scrolls has particular naming conventions for its races.

Therefore, while ZOS offering a free Race Change token in the wake of massive racial changes looks like a generous gesture that admittedly they didn't have to do...

...it also means that anyone who uses it has to also buy a Name Change token to change previously lore appropriate names.

Are we asking for more than ZOS offered?
Yes.

Is it unreasonable?
Depends on your opinion of ZOS massively changing racial passives midstream, your willingness to reroll characters, and whether or not you named your characters according to their race.

For myself, I'm not sure I will use the free race change token. But if I do, all of my characters were named according to their original race and would need a Name Change token.

Not saying you are wrong at all, the thing I don't understand though, if people are talking about LORE, then the reason they picked that race is because of lore and not game play and min/max. If you are role playing, then there is no need to change race because the race was chosen for lore reasons and or role playing reasons. So that would mean anyone choosing a race for lore reasons and or role playing reasons wouldn't be changing their race anyways so wouldn't be using the race change token anyways.

The only people who I can see want a race change token are people who just want "the best stats" or what is best at "min/maxing" and couldn't care about lore or role playing.

I guess I am not seeing it. Why would a person who role plays or picks lore want a race change token? Please help me understand that part. That is why it seems people are just whining not many people are explaining why like you have. Since you explained very well there, I see your point, but as I said, I can't see or understand why a person who role plays or chooses lore would want to change their character?

AlnilamE · January 2019

theyancey wrote: »

Yeah, I have an orc toon named in the traditional orcish tradition. That won't work so well as an Altmer or Nord, will it now?

They could have been adopted.

esotoon wrote: »

I do not believe there has ever been such a comprehensive overhaul of racial passives before, has there? So it would stand to reason that they have not been offered before. On the other hand, when large number of skill changes were implemented, the Skill Change cost has been reduced to 1g for a short period of time on multiple occasions.

I'm not in the mood to dig through 5 years of patch notes, but this one was pretty big:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3265739/#Comment_3265739

This may have been the update where they killed the argonian potion nightblades, or it may have been another one.

Every time there is a change to racial passives, it's the same thing. This is the first time they've actually given out a race change.

Starlight_Knight · January 2019

I was thinking this same thing the other day.. if need to race change my Bretton to a Nord for instance surly i need a Nord name?
+1 agree from me

Ohtimbar · January 2019

I agree, and the more people who complain the better the odds are that something will be done. People have been begging for a necromancer class for ages, and now they're getting one. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

esotoon · January 2019

Davor wrote: »

Not saying you are wrong at all, the thing I don't understand though, if people are talking about LORE, then the reason they picked that race is because of lore and not game play and min/max. If you are role playing, then there is no need to change race because the race was chosen for lore reasons and or role playing reasons. So that would mean anyone choosing a race for lore reasons and or role playing reasons wouldn't be changing their race anyways so wouldn't be using the race change token anyways.

You are assuming there are only two possible ways to do things. Either min/max and not care about the world you are in or be a role-player who forgoes stats purely to roleplay and stick doggedly to the lore. There are other options too.

For instance in my case, if I pick a character for min/max purposes, I still try and give them lore friendly names. Why? Out of respect to the world we are in and immersion into that said world, as well as respect for other players immersion.

So if I change race for min/max purposes, my character that was Argonian is now a High Elf, and in my "head cannon" that characters has now *always* been a High Elf. So I want a name to go with the race, rather than run around as a High Elf called "Swishes-With-Tail". You don't have to be a hard core role player/lore junkie to still want to immerse in the world around you.

VaranisArano · January 2019

Davor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Someone is given an inch, but yet asks for a mile. Sheesh.

And people wonder why Zenimax doesn't talk to us. Pretty shameful. What is next, we have are given a free slot, but you want a costume token to go with it as well?

What in Peter's name are you talking about? That they give us a free racial change to change something they did, that worked well for years? Somehow people are entitled for asking to be able to change their names to keep somewhat their characters that they worked on for years and, somehow, that is shameful?

Get it through your skull, ZOS is not your friend. ZOS is not somebody you gotta appease. They sell a product, we buy it. If they do radical changes, which they did, they shoud allow people to change stuff properly atleast for one character. This isn't some retail mom and pop shop that we should care about, this is a corporation to make its money. Stop being a sheeple and posting stuff for karma.

Wait what? Me defend Zenimax? Never. I give credit when credit is due, but Zenimax is not due any credit. Thing is though my point stands. Someone gets gets something for free, but yet wants more. If Zenimax didn't give anything, I am sure the person wouldn't be asking for a name change token but a race change token. So, given an inch but takes a mile.

How on Earth am I defending Zenimax here?

Those of us who want a name change token are pointing out that, within the context of this being an MMORPG, an important part of the RPG is character names. We're also pointing out the Elder Scrolls has particular naming conventions for its races.

Therefore, while ZOS offering a free Race Change token in the wake of massive racial changes looks like a generous gesture that admittedly they didn't have to do...

...it also means that anyone who uses it has to also buy a Name Change token to change previously lore appropriate names.

Are we asking for more than ZOS offered?
Yes.

Is it unreasonable?
Depends on your opinion of ZOS massively changing racial passives midstream, your willingness to reroll characters, and whether or not you named your characters according to their race.

For myself, I'm not sure I will use the free race change token. But if I do, all of my characters were named according to their original race and would need a Name Change token.

Not saying you are wrong at all, the thing I don't understand though, if people are talking about LORE, then the reason they picked that race is because of lore and not game play and min/max. If you are role playing, then there is no need to change race because the race was chosen for lore reasons and or role playing reasons. So that would mean anyone choosing a race for lore reasons and or role playing reasons wouldn't be changing their race anyways so wouldn't be using the race change token anyways.

The only people who I can see want a race change token are people who just want "the best stats" or what is best at "min/maxing" and couldn't care about lore or role playing.

I guess I am not seeing it. Why would a person who role plays or picks lore want a race change token? Please help me understand that part. That is why it seems people are just whining not many people are explaining why like you have. Since you explained very well there, I see your point, but as I said, I can't see or understand why a person who role plays or chooses lore would want to change their character?

I discussed that in more detail here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453709/does-the-free-race-change-token-include-a-name-change

But to briefly recap...

If I were to race change a character, I would essentially be recreating the character. Exit Maria Montclair, my Breton StamSorc Silencer; enter Suraya al-Elinhir, Redguard Stam Sorc mercenary. My roleplay would change with the race (and name) and Suraya would begin her own adventures with Murkmire and eventually Elsweyr.

As for why I would race change to do that instead of making a new character, it should be apparent that the work of recreating a character with maxed inventory, Mount training, skyshards, skill lines, etc is a poor choice in terms of cost efficiency.

Still, the reasoning behind why someone would, should or shouldn't want to race change is tangential to the problem that "for anyone who named their characters according their race, ZOS' free race change token ought to include a name change token as well."

You dont have to be a roleplayer or care tremendously about the lore to have named your character something that fits their TES race.

Mattock_Romulus · January 2019

mxxo wrote: »

Haha ;D You are right! A Khajiit Magplar with a Dunmer Name makes no sense at all ;p

A Khajiit orphaned as a child, raised by Dunmer, known as the Soulless One, this is the uncommon story of Indoril Khajiit-Slayer of house Redoran.

An unusual fellow, Indoril denies his heritage and considers himself a Dunmer, leading a group of Dunmers bent on invading Elswyr and wiping all Khajiit from Nirn.

Cardthief · January 2019

Hold on, I thought that using a Race Token allows you to rename your character as well? I vaguely remember that being the case when using a Race token on the PTS, could be wrong though so apologies if that's the case.

Jhalin · January 2019

No, it only allows you to change name, hence why Race Change and Name Change are bundled together. The text box will be visible but non interactable, just like Class

On the topic, we should 100% receive a Name Change to go along with the Race Change token. It seems like only ZOS would choose not to offer a zero-cost injection of good PR by doing so.

Acrolas · January 2019

I've softened my stance a little bit.

One free name change token per account, but it comes with the additional terms that if your account ever uses a name change token to create a name in violation of the Behavior section of the Code of Conduct, you don't receive a forced name change. You receive a permabanned ESO account.

I feel that's the type of no-tolerance policy needed to preemptively discourage the inappropriate behavior. And even then there will probably still be a few *** who do it anyway.

Wildberryjack · January 2019

It should be a race/name change combo. Many name their characters depending on their race. An Argonian name won't work so well on a Dark Elf, an Altmer name won't work so well on a Khajiit.

Mettaricana · January 2019

Honestly a name change token should only be 500 crowns

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · January 2019

Cardthief wrote: »

Hold on, I thought that using a Race Token allows you to rename your character as well? I vaguely remember that being the case when using a Race token on the PTS, could be wrong though so apologies if that's the case.

Agreed, my understanding was that changing your race includes a name change. (Not vice-versa though).

Any of the other discussion going on is pure BS because it's way too early to complain when the details have NOT been announced yet by ZoS - all they said was that we get one free race change per account. Please wait until we get the actual details before going off on a rant. Thank you.

Also note that testing done by others on PTS (by susmitsd) show that almost all races are very closely comparable when it comes to doing DPS. He can make a NB do about 50k dps unbuffed on pretty much any race, plus or minus 500dps. In other words, if you suck, it's because of your skills, rotation and how good YOU are, not your character race. There is far less of a real need to change race than you think. The only reason to change race is if you maybe want to switch from a tank to a dps build, or vice versa - some races ARE better at tanking than others.

SydneyGrey · January 2019

I don't particularly want my brand new human or elf to be named Swims-In-Water*, and quite frankly, if they give us a race change without the accompanying name change, that would be a real crap move. Some of us have 15 characters (or more on other accounts/servers), and didn't ask for these racial changes.

(*Swims-in-Water is not a real character name of mine. It's just an example.)

VaranisArano · January 2019

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

Cardthief wrote: »

Hold on, I thought that using a Race Token allows you to rename your character as well? I vaguely remember that being the case when using a Race token on the PTS, could be wrong though so apologies if that's the case.

Agreed, my understanding was that changing your race includes a name change. (Not vice-versa though).

Any of the other discussion going on is pure BS because it's way too early to complain when the details have NOT been announced yet by ZoS - all they said was that we get one free race change per account. Please wait until we get the actual details before going off on a rant. Thank you.

Also note that testing done by others on PTS (by susmitsd) show that almost all races are very closely comparable when it comes to doing DPS. He can make a NB do about 50k dps unbuffed on pretty much any race, plus or minus 500dps. In other words, if you suck, it's because of your skills, rotation and how good YOU are, not your character race. There is far less of a real need to change race than you think. The only reason to change race is if you maybe want to switch from a tank to a dps build, or vice versa - some races ARE better at tanking than others.

On the Crown Store:

Race Change Token: 3000 crowns
Name Change Token: 2500 crowns
Name and Race Change Token: 3500 crowns

So, no, a name change token is not included in the free Race Change token ZOS is offering unless they decide to offer instead a Race& Name Change Token.

ZOS_JesC · January 2019

Greetings, we've recently removed several comments that were baiting and inappropriate. This is a friendly reminder that comments need to remain civil and on topic. If you have any questions about what type of content is expected when posting, please see our forum rules here.

hmsdragonfly · January 2019

Davor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

Someone is given an inch, but yet asks for a mile. Sheesh.

And people wonder why Zenimax doesn't talk to us. Pretty shameful. What is next, we have are given a free slot, but you want a costume token to go with it as well?

What in Peter's name are you talking about? That they give us a free racial change to change something they did, that worked well for years? Somehow people are entitled for asking to be able to change their names to keep somewhat their characters that they worked on for years and, somehow, that is shameful?

Get it through your skull, ZOS is not your friend. ZOS is not somebody you gotta appease. They sell a product, we buy it. If they do radical changes, which they did, they shoud allow people to change stuff properly atleast for one character. This isn't some retail mom and pop shop that we should care about, this is a corporation to make its money. Stop being a sheeple and posting stuff for karma.

Wait what? Me defend Zenimax? Never. I give credit when credit is due, but Zenimax is not due any credit. Thing is though my point stands. Someone gets gets something for free, but yet wants more. If Zenimax didn't give anything, I am sure the person wouldn't be asking for a name change token but a race change token. So, given an inch but takes a mile.

How on Earth am I defending Zenimax here?

Those of us who want a name change token are pointing out that, within the context of this being an MMORPG, an important part of the RPG is character names. We're also pointing out the Elder Scrolls has particular naming conventions for its races.

Therefore, while ZOS offering a free Race Change token in the wake of massive racial changes looks like a generous gesture that admittedly they didn't have to do...

...it also means that anyone who uses it has to also buy a Name Change token to change previously lore appropriate names.

Are we asking for more than ZOS offered?
Yes.

Is it unreasonable?
Depends on your opinion of ZOS massively changing racial passives midstream, your willingness to reroll characters, and whether or not you named your characters according to their race.

For myself, I'm not sure I will use the free race change token. But if I do, all of my characters were named according to their original race and would need a Name Change token.

Not saying you are wrong at all, the thing I don't understand though, if people are talking about LORE, then the reason they picked that race is because of lore and not game play and min/max. If you are role playing, then there is no need to change race because the race was chosen for lore reasons and or role playing reasons. So that would mean anyone choosing a race for lore reasons and or role playing reasons wouldn't be changing their race anyways so wouldn't be using the race change token anyways.

The only people who I can see want a race change token are people who just want "the best stats" or what is best at "min/maxing" and couldn't care about lore or role playing.

I guess I am not seeing it. Why would a person who role plays or picks lore want a race change token? Please help me understand that part. That is why it seems people are just whining not many people are explaining why like you have. Since you explained very well there, I see your point, but as I said, I can't see or understand why a person who role plays or chooses lore would want to change their character?

I give you an example. You have a Dunmer magDK in PvP, you name your character ___ Telvanni.
Now, after the racial changes, playing a Dunmer magDK doesn't feel right for you anymore, your PvP performance gets worse, so you change your race to Altmer. So you run around Tamriel with an Altmer named Telvanni. As a result, everyone laughs "who is dumb enough to name a High Elf "Telvanni", hahaha he is so dumb, everyone knows that Telvanni is a Dark Elf". You look like a ***.

There are many players who care both for performance and lore-friendly name. You can see a lot of high-ranked players with lore-friendly names, especially Dunmer names like Dagoth, Telvanni, Hlaalu, Indoril and Argonian names.
Imagine seeing those Bretons called Hides-Under-Bridge running around.

Bam_Bam · January 2019

Davor wrote: »

Someone is given an inch, but yet asks for a mile. Sheesh.

And people wonder why Zenimax doesn't talk to us. Pretty shameful. What is next, we have are given a free slot, but you want a costume token to go with it as well?

Agreed 1000000%

Leocaran · January 2019

Well, it's obvious that Race change token must allow to change name. Regardless of you getting it for crowns or not. Simple as that.

Prof_Bawbag · January 2019

This place never ceases to amaze me. The amount of people who think ZoS are their best friend and are some poor little tinpot, back ally outfit is staggering.

Goodwill works both ways and in some way, it's not on the consumer but the company to show that goodwill. Don't fret, ZoS handing out free name changes to those who wish a name change won't adversely affect your game or ZoS. Name change tokens are nothing but fresh air. They're there already. No extra work needed to create new code, so those poor little ZoS employees will still manage to feed and school their little Timmys. Sad days indeed when some people now prefer to sleep with the large faceless corps than back their fellow consumers. Got to hand it to the large corps, they've managed to brainwash enough people that they no longer need to be the ones to directly shoot down the people who have the audacity to question some of their practices. Instead they now have fellow consumers all too willing to call others "entitled" etc etc.

And people wonder why there's an ever increasing anti capitalism feeling running through the West. Too many people more concerned about themselves and the large corps than there is about getting a fair deal for all.

AlexanderDeLarge · January 2019

Davor wrote: »

Someone is given an inch, but yet asks for a mile. Sheesh.

And people wonder why Zenimax doesn't talk to us. Pretty shameful. What is next, we have are given a free slot, but you want a costume token to go with it as well?

Why the hell shouldn't players be given a token if they race change? Now we're going to have swims-in-sewage who used to be an Argonian and in character walking around as a Nord. It's dumb.

Michae · January 2019

I'm not gonna change my char's race but I do agree that if they are "giving out" a race change token it should include a name change too. Or at least they should make name change promo for that time and sell it for max. 500 cr.

It doesn't cost them anything and it's generally good pr.

Villaine · January 2019

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

This place never ceases to amaze me. The amount of people who think ZoS are their best friend and are some poor little tinpot, back ally outfit is staggering.

Goodwill works both ways and in some way, it's not on the consumer but the company to show that goodwill. Don't fret, ZoS handing out free name changes to those who wish a name change won't adversely affect your game or ZoS. Name change tokens are nothing but fresh air. They're there already. No extra work needed to create new code, so those poor little ZoS employees will still manage to feed and school their little Timmys. Sad days indeed when some people now prefer to sleep with the large faceless corps than back their fellow consumers. Got to hand it to the large corps, they've managed to brainwash enough people that they no longer need to be the ones to directly shoot down the people who have the audacity to question some of their practices. Instead they now have fellow consumers all too willing to call others "entitled" etc etc.

And people wonder why there's an ever increasing anti capitalism feeling running through the West. Too many people more concerned about themselves and the large corps than there is about getting a fair deal for all.

Nailed it!

NoMoreChillies · January 2019

after the debacle of dungeon finder event, a free name change could go a long way and it cost ZOS zero/nada/zilch/zippo/ NOTHING.

Easiest PR move ever.

VaranisArano · January 2019

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

after the debacle of dungeon finder event, a free name change could go a long way and it cost ZOS zero/nada/zilch/zippo/ NOTHING.

Easiest PR move ever.

Well, technically it would cost them 2500 crowns in lost profit from anyone who would have bought a name change token to go along with that free race change token so their character name matches their race.

Or an extra 500 crowns to make it a Name and Race change token instead of a plain race change token.

Ohtimbar · January 2019

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

This place never ceases to amaze me. The amount of people who think ZoS are their best friend and are some poor little tinpot, back ally outfit is staggering.

It seems to be an American thing. Our culture, such as it is, is corporate in nature. It saddens me, because it wasn't always that way. But, to bring it back on topic, you're correct on all counts. zos is owned by a very wealthy and cutthroat entity and if they're hurting for funds, that's the reason why. I suspect they're doing just fine. A free costless token or ten surely won't hurt them.

Leocaran · January 2019

Ohtimbar wrote: »

It seems to be an American thing.

Nah. Just a type of thinking. Definitely see it everywhere (even if not all the time) with no Americans close in sight. Probably supposed to be 'responsible behaviour', only happens to be really misguided.

Arrodisia · January 2019

There are plenty of players who already willy nilly change their names and/or races, even when there are no changes coming, and ZOS has plenty of other things to sell us in the crown store.

It's also quite a smart business move for ZOS to make these race/name changes free for all chars. It'll put a huge burst of trust and stability back into the game's player base. Zenimax will have many players feeling like they believe in their product with this. Basically, ZOS would be exercising forebearance to secure the overall happiness of the player base, which at the same time, would strengthen their long term goals in this sector of gaming.

They'll retain their ESO Plus customers, and mostly likely gain new customers, who were on the fence about joining and buying expansions. This could turn into a very positive and huge publicity stunt for ZOS, which they can, surely, use right now. Plus, most money, that would've been spent on tokens, would now be freed up to be spent on other crown items like mounts, crown crates, homes, ...... and the dlc's and expansions as well. This could be a huge win win for ZOS, and the players with little effort on their part.

It doesn't take much to figure this out, but it could very well go like this. ZOS gives all player's characters free race/name changes in the form of resets for one week when the changes go live. The week before they launch the update, they broadcast a twitch stream about the changes and optimizations. Then, towards the end of the stream, they announce that the changes will be free for all characters for one week and boom. They walk out of this as shining angels wrapped in an MMO blanket of sales and profits, which they can take to the bank for years to come imho.