Give Argonians a stamina bonus

Concret · January 2019

With the new flat bonus, Argonians tanks will need to put more stat in stamina just to be able to recover stamina with shards/orbs synergies.
This will decrease again Argonians Tank health and can be hurtfull for the end game content (let's be honnest, with this, + the nerf on potions passif, + the huge buff to Nords there is no reason to not switch to Nord next update, how can you call that "balance" ?) .
Why not adding a stamina bonus, the same as magicka. This won't change anything for any other roles since argonians underperform everywhere. It will just be better for magicka DD (stamina is always welcomed), it will be better for stamina DD, it will be better for healer (once again, stamina is always welcomed) and it will be way better for tanks.

This simple thing will just put argonian in a spot where they still can be competitive without being completly outperformed by other races.

frozzzen101 · January 2019

100% agree. Flat 1000 mag might be buff over 3% max mag for many magicka builds but for Argonian tanks - a role that was main Argonian niche ever since Morrowind it's straight up nerf. Please give Argonian 1000 stamina to get their mag/stam split even. I'd very much prefer additional 1000 stamina for stamdd Argonians but it's too much to ask for, swap 1000 magicka from first passive for 1000 hp to keep 6.5 set bonuses racial balance.
Better for stamdd and tank role, even for healers and worse for magdd. Since you want to make races more balanced for all specs, this would help to get Argonian to be better all around race and kept them strong at the roles where players already chose Argonian to begin with.

vesselwiththepestle · January 2019

Great idea, make it so.

RaptorRodeoGod · January 2019

Replace the healing done passive with weapon/spell damage. Doing that, or something similar, might give them a fighting chance for a DD role.

Silver_Strider · January 2019

Realistically, in order to maintain some semblance of balance you'd have to adjust Argonians racials a lot more than just adding a Stamina buff, especially since Max Resources are kind of meh since they're put last into the equation.

Resourceful: 500 Magic+Stamina. Restore 3600 Health, Magic and Stamina when you drink a potion
Argonian Resist: 750 Health, 2310 Disease resist + Status Immunity
Life Mender: 2% Healing Done, 150 Weapon+Spell Damage.

This is pretty much the most balanced way Argonian would get any sort of buff to be overall useful.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2019

frozzzen101 wrote: »

100% agree. Flat 1000 mag might be buff over 3% max mag for many magicka builds but for Argonian tanks - a role that was main Argonian niche ever since Morrowind it's straight up nerf. Please give Argonian 1000 stamina to get their mag/stam split even. I'd very much prefer additional 1000 stamina for stamdd Argonians but it's too much to ask for, swap 1000 magicka from first passive for 1000 hp to keep 6.5 set bonuses racial balance.
Better for stamdd and tank role, even for healers and worse for magdd. Since you want to make races more balanced for all specs, this would help to get Argonian to be better all around race and kept them strong at the roles where players already chose Argonian to begin with.

Tank has always been the best role for Argonians in this game. Most people didn't pay attention to the passive of Healing Received at release and assumed that meant they were necessarily healers. The problem was a bit of sloppy reading comprehension.

My personal opinion is that they should be careful about the potion passive. If they nerf it too much it becomes pointless as it is associated with a cost. Altmer don't have to pay for their regeneration and get a lot more on top of that. I like the potion passive but it seems to be a big flaw in design, as cool as it is. They might want to look at giving Argonians a strong across the board regeneration, considering that is what the race has always had (in the form of that Hist daily skill they use to have).

frozzzen101 · January 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Realistically, in order to maintain some semblance of balance you'd have to adjust Argonians racials a lot more than just adding a Stamina buff, especially since Max Resources are kind of meh since they're put last into the equation.

Resourceful: 500 Magic+Stamina. Restore 3600 Health, Magic and Stamina when you drink a potion
Argonian Resist: 750 Health, 2310 Disease resist + Status Immunity
Life Mender: 2% Healing Done, 150 Weapon+Spell Damage.

This is pretty much the most balanced way Argonian would get any sort of buff to be overall useful.

This looks really good for all specs. I really hope developers would pay some attention to it.

Skander · January 2019

Give them also 258 spell and weapon damage since we are at it, no?

Skander · January 2019

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

Replace the healing done passive with weapon/spell damage. Doing that, or something similar, might give them a fighting chance for a DD role.

Not even in your wildest dreams

Aedrion · January 2019

Nah man, I think they need more nerfs.

I mean did you see how OP they still are based on the purely theoretical calculations behind Resourceful? They're still twice as stronk as the other races. I might actually run into somebody playing this ugly race.
Here's how it should be:

Recourceful: +500 Crowns each month to buy more racechange tokens. When you drink a potion, you gain that potions effects.

Argonian Resistance: +500 HP when near a dumner and getting hit by Flame Whip gives you 50 weapon and spell damage in a buff called "Memories of Home"

Quick to Mend: +1% healing done because it scales WAY better than 256 spell damage and needs to be kept under control.

Oh and swim speed is now +10%, 50% is OP because I cant chase them in lakes when they have an Elder Scroll in Cyrodiil.

HatchetHaro · January 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Realistically, in order to maintain some semblance of balance you'd have to adjust Argonians racials a lot more than just adding a Stamina buff, especially since Max Resources are kind of meh since they're put last into the equation.

Resourceful: 500 Magic+Stamina. Restore 3600 Health, Magic and Stamina when you drink a potion
Argonian Resist: 750 Health, 2310 Disease resist + Status Immunity
Life Mender: 2% Healing Done, 150 Weapon+Spell Damage.

This is pretty much the most balanced way Argonian would get any sort of buff to be overall useful.

Giving you an Agree here, though I would personally tweak the values a bit. The reason is that they don't need much more of a nerf especially when it comes to resources.

Resourceful: +1000 max Magicka and Stamina. Restore 2400 Health, 3600 Magicka and 3600 Stamina when you drink a potion
Argonian Resist: +750 max Health, 2310 Disease resist + Status Immunity
Life Mender: 4% Healing Done, 129 Weapon and Spell Damage for 5 seconds upon receiving healing

I think the Weapon and Spell Damage upon receiving healing part should make Argonians more interesting without completely buffing their power in PvP. This means that in trials, they become viable enough not to be at the bottom of the DPS barrel, and in PvP they would either have to run in a group or force a heal upon themselves for that power.

What these values will do is put them below Dunmer in terms of damage, but also above them in terms of sustain and utility.

xaraan · January 2019

I agree with this.

The magicka bonus they get leaves them at the bottom tier of DPS races that get any sort of magicka bonus.
So giving them that same stam bonus would do the same - make them viable as a stam race without making them perform as well as races that get a variety of stam based bonuses.

Letting them be viable at DPS roles and 2-3 best at the least popular role in the game - tanking isn't asking much.

As I've said elsewhere, it would also eliminate the stealth nerf to health for tanking. Our health will already go down when it changes from 9% to 1K, we will have to take more points out of health to put into stam to raise that resource up higher than magicka if we want resource return on shard/orb use - lowering health even more to put more points into a resource that won't benefit us past shard use.

Silver_Strider · January 2019

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Realistically, in order to maintain some semblance of balance you'd have to adjust Argonians racials a lot more than just adding a Stamina buff, especially since Max Resources are kind of meh since they're put last into the equation.

Resourceful: 500 Magic+Stamina. Restore 3600 Health, Magic and Stamina when you drink a potion
Argonian Resist: 750 Health, 2310 Disease resist + Status Immunity
Life Mender: 2% Healing Done, 150 Weapon+Spell Damage.

This is pretty much the most balanced way Argonian would get any sort of buff to be overall useful.

Giving you an Agree here, though I would personally tweak the values a bit. The reason is that they don't need much more of a nerf especially when it comes to resources.

Resourceful: +1000 max Magicka and Stamina. Restore 2400 Health, 3600 Magicka and 3600 Stamina when you drink a potion
Argonian Resist: +750 max Health, 2310 Disease resist + Status Immunity
Life Mender: 4% Healing Done, 129 Weapon and Spell Damage for 5 seconds upon receiving healing

I think the Weapon and Spell Damage upon receiving healing part should make Argonians more interesting without completely buffing their power in PvP. This means that in trials, they become viable enough not to be at the bottom of the DPS barrel, and in PvP they would either have to run in a group or force a heal upon themselves for that power.

What these values will do is put them below Dunmer in terms of damage, but also above them in terms of sustain and utility.

Well, I'm basing my suggestions in relation to my other posts on improving Imperials as well so that both races are more fleshed out, although I do feel that I may have overshot Argonian a bit with my unconditional 150 Weapon/Spell Damage suggestions so I'd gladly take the conditional 129 Weapon and Spell Damage suggestion you listed so it's more balanced options between the 2

My Imperial suggestion

Toughness: 2k Health
Conditioning: Changed into Imperial Mettle: 1000 Magic+Stamina
Red Diamond: Restore 300 Health, Magic and Stamina upon activation of a Weapon ability. 5 second CD. Reduce the cost of Block/Bash by 5%.

The divide in Magic and Stamina is both lore friendly as well as making it so that Imperials have more well rounded options in their choice of roles, without favoring 1 side or being limited to just tanking. Changing Red Diamond into being a fairly powerful Tri-Stat restore effect only slightly weaker to Argonian potion passive (60 Regen/sec vs 80 Regen/sec), with a little extra block sustain on top makes Red Diamond into a useful Passive that would allow Imperial to branch outside of the Tanking role into DPS and Healer roles effectively but not be so powerful in those roles as opposed to Races that are more situated for them. An Imperial Healer will never be as powerful as a Breton Healer, it's Stamina DPS wouldn't have the raw strength of Orcs, it's Magic DPS won't be as good as an Altmer and in Tank roles, Nord offers more group utility but less sustain/stats than Imperial, while Imperials have less sustain than Argonians but more raw stats so that it's an overall balanced Race capable of fulfilling every role to a decent capacity.

Ozby · January 2019

I feel they should replace the potion passive with a regen passive and also get stamina in there somehow as well, I have 2 argonian tanks and 4 argonian healers so the current changes the way they are really hurt. A regen passive would be really awesome instead of the gimmicky potion one.

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

Give Magicka bonus to Imperils!