Please don't nerf Imperials

Vertilvius · January 2019

I beg you please do not go through with the changes to Imperials. As they are now this race is not all that strong and your only making them worse with these changes. Imperials are a race people play because they like the lore not because they are good. As it is now the bonus as a pve end game tank ( a role you have pigeon holed me into bc I choose to play an Imperial stamdk) we receive roughly 3500 health and 1800 stam. With these changes we will be losing 1500 health and gaining about 200 stam ( health is way more important). You will basically be taking a decent tanking race 2nd to Argonians ( should be first since the lore about them is usage of sword and board, and was for a very long time til you gave Argonians that ridiculous potion passive) to really not an option any longer. The 5% block cost reduction is completely useless as block cost reduction glyphs and the cp system give you more than enough already. At least throw us a bone in pvp and give use weapon damage while equipping sword and board instead. Buffing the healing from light attacks is also useless or at least not that good, in pve you have healers, pvp its chopped down to 750 bc of the healing debuf. This is a race that we pay for so why would you ever make it one of the worst? Im not asking for an op race ( although the Warden class is about as close to pay for play this game gets) just make us viable options. Ways of doing this buff us a bit give use 4k health and stam ( or 3k with the increase in weapon damage while equipping sword and board) something Im begging you.

barshemm · January 2019

I think red diamond will proc more, up from 10% to 15% and in pvp where most people sit around 24-26k hps, I think red diamond is going to heal more every tick too. From a pvp perspective I think red diamond is a buff, especially for templars who can proc it a lot with jabs.

Can't comment on imperial pve tanking so will take your word on it. Last time I did serious pve tanking, I was able to run a nightblade sap tank. That died a long time ago.

dsalter · January 2019

Vertilvius wrote: »

I beg you please do not go through with the changes to Imperials. As they are now this race is not all that strong and your only making them worse with these changes. Imperials are a race people play because they like the lore not because they are good. As it is now the bonus as a pve end game tank ( a role you have pigeon holed me into bc I choose to play an Imperial stamdk) we receive roughly 3500 health and 1800 stam. With these changes we will be losing 1500 health and gaining about 200 stam ( health is way more important). You will basically be taking a decent tanking race 2nd to Argonians ( should be first since the lore about them is usage of sword and board, and was for a very long time til you gave Argonians that ridiculous potion passive) to really not an option any longer. The 5% block cost reduction is completely useless as block cost reduction glyphs and the cp system give you more than enough already. At least throw us a bone in pvp and give use weapon damage while equipping sword and board instead. Buffing the healing from light attacks is also useless or at least not that good, in pve you have healers, pvp its chopped down to 750 bc of the healing debuf. This is a race that we pay for so why would you ever make it one of the worst? Im not asking for an op race ( although the Warden class is about as close to pay for play this game gets) just make us viable options. Ways of doing this buff us a bit give use 4k health and stam ( or 3k with the increase in weapon damage while equipping sword and board) something Im begging you.

imperials had some of the most broken self heals imaginable if you built them tanky, i know because i could solo alot of 4 man stuff with no issues on my DK imperial, though the nerf was alittle over kill, bumping numbers up alittle would make them less shafted.

meanwhile nords more or less got brutalized losing that % based reduction.

Schattenfluegel · January 2019

Imperials will do fine as tank with the racialpatches ^^

Vertilvius · January 2019

You can tank on a Khajiit if you wanted to its not about doing fine its about being a useless race or not. And the passive heal is useless in pve and not strong in pvp at all. All the other races but Argonians got a buff while the Imperials and Argonians got nerfed. Whether this is done on purpose to make it harder on trial tanks Im not sure but its not ok. Like stated before we pay for this race and I'd like for it not to suck. Btw Nords will be the best tanks now.

Wuuffyy · January 2019

I feel that they are better with the fixed value and upped chance. That passive was upsetting as a paid race whereas the Warden and Surely the NECROMANCER classes (will be) are so OP.

Ajax_22 · January 2019

dsalter wrote: »

Vertilvius wrote: »

I beg you please do not go through with the changes to Imperials. As they are now this race is not all that strong and your only making them worse with these changes. Imperials are a race people play because they like the lore not because they are good. As it is now the bonus as a pve end game tank ( a role you have pigeon holed me into bc I choose to play an Imperial stamdk) we receive roughly 3500 health and 1800 stam. With these changes we will be losing 1500 health and gaining about 200 stam ( health is way more important). You will basically be taking a decent tanking race 2nd to Argonians ( should be first since the lore about them is usage of sword and board, and was for a very long time til you gave Argonians that ridiculous potion passive) to really not an option any longer. The 5% block cost reduction is completely useless as block cost reduction glyphs and the cp system give you more than enough already. At least throw us a bone in pvp and give use weapon damage while equipping sword and board instead. Buffing the healing from light attacks is also useless or at least not that good, in pve you have healers, pvp its chopped down to 750 bc of the healing debuf. This is a race that we pay for so why would you ever make it one of the worst? Im not asking for an op race ( although the Warden class is about as close to pay for play this game gets) just make us viable options. Ways of doing this buff us a bit give use 4k health and stam ( or 3k with the increase in weapon damage while equipping sword and board) something Im begging you.

meanwhile nords more or less got brutalized losing that % based reduction.

Nords received a significant buff due to the change from damage reduction to damage resistance. This is because % based damage reduction is always applied after all other mitigation. If you were a Nord tank at resistance cap you would only receive 3% reduction of the total damage.

Vertilvius · January 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

I feel that they are better with the fixed value and upped chance. That passive was upsetting as a paid race whereas the Warden and Surely the NECROMANCER classes (will be) are so OP.

As someone who end game pve's I respectfully disagree with you. Losing 1500+ health is a big nerf. They have also made it totally irrelevant if you'd like to use them as a stam dps. Before your could although not very well use them as a stamdps, I have an Imperial stamden dps and he was viable. Not any longer rip him and guess I'll be using my race change on him (also we better get the race/name change too not just the race one).

Brrrofski · January 2019

Dude, every race will be losing max resource if you stacked that resource...

Kinda think it was a major point of their balance plans

Vertilvius · January 2019

[/quote]

Nords received a significant buff due to the change from damage reduction to damage resistance. This is because % based damage reduction is always applied after all other mitigation. If you were a Nord tank at resistance cap you would only receive 3% reduction of the total damage.[/quote]

Yea Nords are looking pretty good right now. Really every race but Dunmer ( which I believe they didnt get nerfed, just took away the uniqueness from them) and Imperial I believe the changes where good. I do believe that Argonians potion passive is still too strong but at least they nerfed it a bit.

Vertilvius · January 2019

Brrrofski wrote: »

Dude, every race will be losing max resource if you stacked that resource...

Kinda think it was a major point of their balance plans

And they gave every other race something to compensate like weapon/spell damage or regen. Whoopidy doo we get a small buff to a crap heal upon damage.

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

Vertilvius wrote: »

Nords received a significant buff due to the change from damage reduction to damage resistance. This is because % based damage reduction is always applied after all other mitigation. If you were a Nord tank at resistance cap you would only receive 3% reduction of the total damage.[/quote]

Yea Nords are looking pretty good right now. Really every race but Dunmer ( which I believe they didnt get nerfed, just took away the uniqueness from them) and Imperial I believe the changes where good. I do believe that Argonians potion passive is still too strong but at least they nerfed it a bit.
[/quote]

Hardly good tank getting to physical resistance cap, so overall nord are in good position but imperials are not.

Silver_Strider · January 2019

My suggestions
Imperial Mettle: 1K Stamina+Magic
Red Diamond: Restore 260 Health, Stamina and Magic upon activating a Weapon Skill. 6 second CD.
Block/Bash cost reduced by 5%.

It gives them sustain on par with Argonians, with significantly more Max resources to fulfill any role effectively.

satanio · January 2019

Silver_Strider wrote: »

My suggestions
Imperial Mettle: 1K Stamina+Magic
Red Diamond: Restore 260 Health, Stamina and Magic upon activating a Weapon Skill. 6 second CD.
Block/Bash cost reduced by 5%.

It gives them sustain on par with Argonians, with significantly more Max resources to fulfill any role effectively.

And 2000 HP.

karekiz · January 2019

Imperial:
2K HP / Mana / Stamina

No sustain buff nor dmg buff. They are just a block of stats.

Ajax_22 · January 2019

karekiz wrote: »

Imperial:
2K HP / Mana / Stamina

No sustain buff nor dmg buff. They are just a block of stats.

This would still make Imperial objectively the worst race in game for every roll, and that includes being versatile. The one of the major problems with Imperial this update is the way max stats are factored into the equations. Max stats are added in last after all other bonuses. The 2k stats Imperials get aren't effected by any percent buffs in the game. This means the max stat increases are comparatively the worst racial bonuses to receive, especially when things like weapon and spell damage are modified by percent buffs.

The Red Diamond passive is also pretty bad. The block cost is inconsequential for PvE tanks as they already stack it. The bash cost isn't even worth mentioning. The healing is mediocre for PvE tanking, and very situational for PvP. Very few builds will benefit from it, and those that do would likely receive more value from the ultimate generation of a Nord, or the stamina gain from a Redguard.

I personally don't want to see Imperial gain a few more stats. It would be nice to see some damage or regen on the race. However, I think the Imperial needs a complete rework. What is this races identity? What makes it unique? It doesn't have one, and it's unique passive is mediocre at best for a vast majority of the players.

Twohothardware · January 2019

Imperial needs Stamina return from sucesssfully blocked direct damage attacks. You can't tank if you can't sustain, that's what made Argonian so rediculously strong as a tank because of the Resourceful potion passive that gives you the resources while blocking.

satanio · January 2019

Ajax_22 wrote: »

I personally don't want to see Imperial gain a few more stats. It would be nice to see some damage or regen on the race. However, I think the Imperial needs a complete rework. What is this races identity? What makes it unique? It doesn't have one, and it's unique passive is mediocre at best for a vast majority of the players.

MAKE IMPERIAL GREAT AGAIN!

Vertilvius · January 2019

Yea if this goes through I'm going to be very un-happy. Like stated above they get no identity. Crossing my fingers they re-work it.

Excelsus · January 2019

I think they should have max magicka in addition to the health and stamina, keep the block cost reduction because that is somewhat helpful in most cases, in the single player games they specialized in speech, barter, personality - things that don't exist in ESO so just make them an everyman.

Orihara_Izaya · January 2019

Imperials are the most bland race with these changes, and will be the worst race. Not only will they be un-unique they will be relegated to PvE tanking.

Zewoh · January 2019

i tested Nord/Imperial/Argonian on PTS and had more health with imperial than argonian. They are still excelent tanks i had no sustain issue that loss of health is honestly nothing when you think with the same sets/attributes you will still have more health than an argonian. If you think 1.5k hp loss is a lot then i dont know what health your at now. On pts i was at 41k hp (way more than enough for end game) 21k stam (easy to sustain) with ebon/alkosh. I do all craglorn and mol on 36k, hof/cr/as on 39k and never fall into trouble other than when i mess up. Stamina is easy to suatin with a coiuple heavy attacks so if you feel 1.5k hp loss is a lot then just spec more in health. But as i said you still get more HP than argonian

Silver_Strider · January 2019

satanio wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

My suggestions
Imperial Mettle: 1K Stamina+Magic
Red Diamond: Restore 260 Health, Stamina and Magic upon activating a Weapon Skill. 6 second CD.
Block/Bash cost reduced by 5%.

It gives them sustain on par with Argonians, with significantly more Max resources to fulfill any role effectively.

And 2000 HP.

I only listed the passives I was changing since it seemed irrelevant to mention something with no change needed.

satanio · January 2019

Zewoh wrote: »

i tested Nord/Imperial/Argonian on PTS and had more health with imperial than argonian. They are still excelent tanks i had no sustain issue that loss of health is honestly nothing when you think with the same sets/attributes you will still have more health than an argonian. If you think 1.5k hp loss is a lot then i dont know what health your at now. On pts i was at 41k hp (way more than enough for end game) 21k stam (easy to sustain) with ebon/alkosh. I do all craglorn and mol on 36k, hof/cr/as on 39k and never fall into trouble other than when i mess up. Stamina is easy to suatin with a coiuple heavy attacks so if you feel 1.5k hp loss is a lot then just spec more in health. But as i said you still get more HP than argonian

Well, you can tank on everything with couple of heavy attacks...
Have you tried 5/1/1 armor setup? Nords will now fully support 5/1/1 setup and still hitting the resistance cap, ultigen on top of that.

Answer this: Why would you pick imperial over nord if you don't have sustain issues?
And then this: Why would you pick Imperial instead of Argonian if you have sustain issues while tanking?

Vertilvius · January 2019

Zewoh wrote: »

i tested Nord/Imperial/Argonian on PTS and had more health with imperial than argonian. They are still excelent tanks i had no sustain issue that loss of health is honestly nothing when you think with the same sets/attributes you will still have more health than an argonian. If you think 1.5k hp loss is a lot then i dont know what health your at now. On pts i was at 41k hp (way more than enough for end game) 21k stam (easy to sustain) with ebon/alkosh. I do all craglorn and mol on 36k, hof/cr/as on 39k and never fall into trouble other than when i mess up. Stamina is easy to suatin with a coiuple heavy attacks so if you feel 1.5k hp loss is a lot then just spec more in health. But as i said you still get more HP than argonian

Thats not the point that you can do it, you can tank on an Atlmer if your a good tank, I can. It's the point that Imperials get no identity and do nothing well. As for the 1.5k health loss it is a big deal, Ive been saved several times by that 1.5k in trials such as Vas +2/ Vcr +3. When several mechanics hit you all at the same time I know a couple times I would have been dead if I was any other race. There is just no reason to nerf the Imperial race, none what so ever. They where not op to begin with. Oh yea and forget about making them as a dps now.

Silver_Strider · January 2019

satanio wrote: »

Zewoh wrote: »

i tested Nord/Imperial/Argonian on PTS and had more health with imperial than argonian. They are still excelent tanks i had no sustain issue that loss of health is honestly nothing when you think with the same sets/attributes you will still have more health than an argonian. If you think 1.5k hp loss is a lot then i dont know what health your at now. On pts i was at 41k hp (way more than enough for end game) 21k stam (easy to sustain) with ebon/alkosh. I do all craglorn and mol on 36k, hof/cr/as on 39k and never fall into trouble other than when i mess up. Stamina is easy to suatin with a coiuple heavy attacks so if you feel 1.5k hp loss is a lot then just spec more in health. But as i said you still get more HP than argonian

Well, you can tank on everything with couple of heavy attacks...
Have you tried 5/1/1 armor setup? Nords will now fully support 5/1/1 setup and still hitting the resistance cap, ultigen on top of that.

Answer this: Why would you pick imperial over nord if you don't have sustain issues?
And then this: Why would you pick Imperial instead of Argonian if you have sustain issues while tanking?

Why pick Imperial for anything when any race can Tank and offer more across the board?

Lord_Eomer · January 2019

Orihara_Izaya wrote: »

Imperials are the most bland race with these changes, and will be the worst race. Not only will they be un-unique they will be relegated to PvE tanking.

and good tanks will dump Imperial too

Twohothardware · January 2019

Imperial needs Stamina return when successfully blocking direct damage.

vesselwiththepestle · January 2019

Twohothardware wrote: »

Imperial needs Stamina return when successfully blocking direct damage.

Why not add Stamina return in a way which helps tanks AND dps?

yodased · January 2019

Argument doesn't make sense. If ppl play imperials for lore racial boni are irrelevant to choice.

I have tanked everything on my main which is a magdk imperial. And rank 38 in pvp, dont have issues.

If you wanna be mad fine, but dont claim something then negate yourself immediately, it makes the rest of the argument hold less water.

Wait to se or test on pts. Build around it.

Orihara_Izaya · January 2019

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Orihara_Izaya wrote: »

Imperials are the most bland race with these changes, and will be the worst race. Not only will they be un-unique they will be relegated to PvE tanking.

and good tanks will dump Imperial too

Not wrong. They should also get rid of the stupid RNG on red diamond passive and then spice the passive off as well. It also makes no sense why you're only getting 2k HP and Stamina. Should be at least 2.5k, I've been playing Imperial since launch, but these changes (when compared to what other classes get) suck a ton.