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Hardened Armor
Samsquanch
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Does anyone else think this morph of spiked armor could use a change? Maybe give it Minor Protection or Minor Ward/Resolve instead of the damage shield?
This would give the skill utility in both PvP and PvE and make it useful for non-tank DKs that would like to be tougher.
Wardens get Minor Protection AND Minor evasion. Nightblades get Minor Resolve/Ward and Major Evasion in ONE skill, as well as Minor Protection on Dark cloak. Templar get Minor protection. Sorc get Minor Resolve/Ward.
Why does the DK class not have any of these useful Minor buffs?
Edit: sorry, stone giant skill gives Minor Ward/resolve
Edited by Samsquanch on January 24, 2019 8:33PM This would give the skill utility in both PvP and PvE and make it useful for non-tank DKs that would like to be tougher.
Wardens get Minor Protection AND Minor evasion. Nightblades get Minor Resolve/Ward and Major Evasion in ONE skill, as well as Minor Protection on Dark cloak. Templar get Minor protection. Sorc get Minor Resolve/Ward.
Why does the DK class not have any of these useful Minor buffs?
Edit: sorry, stone giant skill gives Minor Ward/resolve
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paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cause they have a passive 10% blocking mitigation and like 3300 spell resistance?4 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Plus minor protection we can get from other sources, that 10% block boost is irreplaceable. Not to mention other advantages.
You will definitely find no sympathy on the forums about what a DK tank doesn’t get.Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest2 -
Samsquanch✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Cause they have a passive 10% blocking mitigation and like 3300 spell resistance?
And? Other classes have passives that increase weapon damage, damage done, passive recovery, all around cost reduction, etc. DK has none of these. The 10% block damage increase passive is kind of a joke man, get real.
3300 spell resistance is 5% spell damage mitigation, where minor protection is 8% total damage reduction.
Edited by Samsquanch on January 24, 2019 4:56PM0 -
Samsquanch✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »Plus minor protection we can get from other sources, that 10% block boost is irreplaceable. Not to mention other advantages.
You will definitely find no sympathy on the forums about what a DK tank doesn’t get.
Thats great and all, but if you read my entire post, it wasn’t about tanks. I specifically said non-tank DKs.
Volatile armor is the clear cut choice for magicka builds while hardened armor is great for max health builds due to scaling with max HP.
What about Stam builds with low max hp? Why not switch the damage shield for a minor buff. Seems like such a simple and non-invasive change.
Edited by Samsquanch on January 24, 2019 3:49PM0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Samsquanch wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »Plus minor protection we can get from other sources, that 10% block boost is irreplaceable. Not to mention other advantages.
You will definitely find no sympathy on the forums about what a DK tank doesn’t get.
Thats great and all, but if you read my entire post, it wasn’t about tanks. I specifically said non-tank DKs.
Volatile armor is the clear cut choice for magicka builds while hardened armor is great for max health builds due to scaling with max HP.
What about Stam builds with low max hp? Why not switch the damage shield for a minor buff. Seems like such a simple and non-invasive change.
Ok fair enough. I read your comment in your original post about non tank DKs as an aside rather than your main point. But it remains we have the tools to be sturdy.
Royal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Samsquanch✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »Samsquanch wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »Plus minor protection we can get from other sources, that 10% block boost is irreplaceable. Not to mention other advantages.
You will definitely find no sympathy on the forums about what a DK tank doesn’t get.
Thats great and all, but if you read my entire post, it wasn’t about tanks. I specifically said non-tank DKs.
Volatile armor is the clear cut choice for magicka builds while hardened armor is great for max health builds due to scaling with max HP.
What about Stam builds with low max hp? Why not switch the damage shield for a minor buff. Seems like such a simple and non-invasive change.
Ok fair enough. I read your comment in your original post about non tank DKs as an aside rather than your main point. But it remains we have the tools to be sturdy.
I agree. I’d just like a morph that is beneficial to all DKs, not just health tanks or magicka DKs. Hardened armor (especially with battle spirit), is practically useless on a non-tank, and Volatile armor isn’t exactly good on a Stam DK.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Cause they have a passive 10% blocking mitigation and like 3300 spell resistance?
And why do you act like other classes don't have passives at all?Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 24, 2019 4:22PM2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »Samsquanch wrote: »BejaProphet wrote: »Plus minor protection we can get from other sources, that 10% block boost is irreplaceable. Not to mention other advantages.
You will definitely find no sympathy on the forums about what a DK tank doesn’t get.
Thats great and all, but if you read my entire post, it wasn’t about tanks. I specifically said non-tank DKs.
Volatile armor is the clear cut choice for magicka builds while hardened armor is great for max health builds due to scaling with max HP.
What about Stam builds with low max hp? Why not switch the damage shield for a minor buff. Seems like such a simple and non-invasive change.
Ok fair enough. I read your comment in your original post about non tank DKs as an aside rather than your main point. But it remains we have the tools to be sturdy.
I agree. I’d just like a morph that is beneficial to all DKs, not just health tanks or magicka DKs. Hardened armor (especially with battle spirit), is practically useless on a non-tank, and Volatile armor isn’t exactly good on a Stam DK.
Volatile armor is not exactly good on a stamDk but better than hardened armor . Its the only reliable cloak counter you have access to.
Beggars can't be choosers I guess. One morph for tanks, one morph for mag and nothing for stam. Thats kinda hoe it goes for sDk.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 24, 2019 4:25PM1 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Don’t dks get minor ward and resolve from the stone giant skill
I like hardened armour I just wish the shield was larger to be honestEdited by macsmooth on January 24, 2019 4:31PM0 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭@macsmooth just the physical resistance but good catchRoyal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Samsquanch✭✭Don’t dks get minor ward and resolve from the stone giant skill
I like hardened armour I just wish the shield was larger to be honest
I wouldn’t know, I don’t play magDK. But if that’s the case, give Hardened armor Minor protection or Minor evasion instead of the shield. Or hell, just make it increase the Major buffs by 50% like the Templar passive does.
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macsmooth✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »@macsmooth just the physical resistance but good catch
I swore it was both as I use it on my magdk for PvP I will power the game on in a minute and check
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Beggars can't be choosers I guess. One morph for tanks, one morph for mag and nothing for stam. Thats kinda hoe it goes for sDk.
Story of my life. ^^ Frankly pondering on joining the horde of stamblades after the update.
@macsmooth , only Resolve, and it's, again, a magicka skill - and @Samsquanch is talking about non-tanks... not sure how how Stone Giant would fit anywhere. I think most cases when someone invests a skill point into it are misclicks.2 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »Don’t dks get minor ward and resolve from the stone giant skill
I like hardened armour I just wish the shield was larger to be honest
I wouldn’t know, I don’t play magDK. But if that’s the case, give Hardened armor Minor protection or Minor evasion instead of the shield. Or hell, just make it increase the Major buffs by 50% like the Templar passive does.
I think you get evasion buff from petrif but I am going to power the game on and look
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@macsmooth , no, don't think so - I just checked, Petrify isn't giving any self-buffs (except Minor Brutality from the skill line passive).0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »Don’t dks get minor ward and resolve from the stone giant skill
I like hardened armour I just wish the shield was larger to be honest
I wouldn’t know, I don’t play magDK. But if that’s the case, give Hardened armor Minor protection or Minor evasion instead of the shield. Or hell, just make it increase the Major buffs by 50% like the Templar passive does.
I think you get evasion buff from petrif but I am going to power the game on and look
Minor evasion is pretty much only on Deceptive Predator. Nothing else as far as I remember.0 -
Samsquanch✭✭Sorry, I guess I didn’t realize stone giant gave Minor Resolve. It’s still kind of weak though, considering this is an offensive magicka skill that really doesn’t benefit Stam DKs at all.
Switching the health % damage shield on hardened armor to either a damage shield that scales with the largest max stat or changing it to a minor buff would be beneficial to all DKs instead of just tanks. Volatile armor on Stam DKs is just kind or silly since the damage scales with magicka.0 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Just looked in game and stone giant does give both minor resolve and ward
But I am wrong about petrif0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Beggars can't be choosers I guess. One morph for tanks, one morph for mag and nothing for stam. Thats kinda hoe it goes for sDk.
Story of my life. ^^ Frankly pondering on joining the horde of stamblades after the update.
@macsmooth , only Resolve, and it's, again, a magicka skill - and @Samsquanch is talking about non-tanks... not sure how how Stone Giant would fit anywhere. I think most cases when someone invests a skill point into it are misclicks.
If hardened armor did poison damage and offered an offensive bonus made for stamina dps in mind instead of that shield, that would be a step in the right direction.
Then again the current situation of hardened armor is the proof of how much wrobel hated the class.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 24, 2019 4:55PM2 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »
Oh I agree about the skill making sense, I just had it nagging at me because I use stone giant in PvP for the stun and always thought the minors was a bonus to the skill
I believe there was an discussion about stone giant should be a stamina morph but either way it’s and expensive skill for low mag builds
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »
Oh I agree about the skill making sense, I just had it nagging at me because I use stone giant in PvP for the stun and always thought the minors was a bonus to the skill
I believe there was an discussion about stone giant should be a stamina morph but either way it’s and expensive skill for low mag builds
Stone giant is a meme. Just reading that description is priceless. "Slam an enemy with solid rock, dealing 496 Magic Damage". Really? We have some impressive magic in Tamriel.1 -
macsmooth✭✭✭✭Samsquanch wrote: »
Oh I agree about the skill making sense, I just had it nagging at me because I use stone giant in PvP for the stun and always thought the minors was a bonus to the skill
I believe there was an discussion about stone giant should be a stamina morph but either way it’s and expensive skill for low mag builds
Stone giant is a meme. Just reading that description is priceless. "Slam an enemy with solid rock, dealing 496 Magic Damage". Really? We have some impressive magic in Tamriel.
Yep I believe the description is the reason why some argue for it to be a stamina morph, on my magdk it hits for 4300 mag damage but he is heavy armour build
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Samsquanch✭✭Regardless of the Minor Ward/resolve from stone giant (~a measly 2% damage mitigation), hardened armor could use a change.
With the racial changes coming, Max health builds are going to take a hit. A 15% of max health damage shield will be even weaker. Apply battle spirit and that damage shield becomes 7.5%. Maybe good for a tank with a huge health pool, but mostly irrelevant for any other type of build.
You don’t have to even add a minor buff if you don’t want. There are other methods of improving the skill. As others have said, make the damage return physical or poison. Increase the damage return of this morph by 200%. Increase the duration of this morph by 10 seconds to preserve magicka for tanks and Stam builds. There are so many options that have more well rounded utility for all builds.0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Want to point out that sometime during this last year Ironskin was made to stack additive with sword and board and defendive posture, making it far stronger than minor protection on many magdk PvP builds for example as it's common for them to utilize onehanded and shield.
But again DKs even non tank ones are some if the sturdiest players you can find, if you are looking for increased survivability on dps DKs in PvE then I would suggest looking at other parts of their toolkit rather than a skill that really only works when getting hit in melee.1 -
Samsquanch✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Want to point out that sometime during this last year Ironskin was made to stack additive with sword and board and defendive posture, making it far stronger than minor protection on many magdk PvP builds for example as it's common for them to utilize onehanded and shield.
But again DKs even non tank ones are some if the sturdiest players you can find, if you are looking for increased survivability on dps DKs in PvE then I would suggest looking at other parts of their toolkit rather than a skill that really only works when getting hit in melee.
You must play a DK tank. Blocking is great and I’m sure that Ironskin is a great passive for a sword and board tank. It’s similar to how the shield from hardened armor is pretty awesome for a tank with high health.
I fail to see how DK is more “sturdy” than classes that have access to Minor Protection and Minor Evasion in their class abilities or passives. Classes with minor buffs can achieve the same resistances as a DK through a variety of routes (sets, Protective trait, CP), whereas the sets that offer Minor Protection are extremely niche. Ironskin is literally the only passive that offers extra “sturdiness”, and it only affects blocking.
Major Resolve and Ward don’t only protect you against melee attacks. They mitigate all damage. I’m not looking for survivability in PvE, in fact, I never PvE. I’ve mained a PvP Stam dk since release, and they’ve been in the doghouse the majority of that time. I’m suggesting a minor and logical change.
DK does have major and minor mending, which is extremely nice for self healing. This does not, however, detract from the point both morphs of spiked armor are trash for non-tank Stam DKs. Making hardened armor a more well rounded skill is an easy fix that would benefit all DKs and not be overpowered. I gave examples of this earlier.
Edit: I just don’t see why anyone would be against this. A morph that could benefit any type of player vs. morphs that only benefit max health & magicka DKs.
Edited by Samsquanch on January 24, 2019 8:50PM0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Cause adding things like that to an already useful and videly used skill would make it really strong on the characters that already use it. I doubt a lot of people want to see mag dks get easy access to minor protection in pvp through a skill most of them already use.2 -
Samsquanch✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »Cause adding things like that to an already useful and videly used skill would make it really strong on the characters that already use it. I doubt a lot of people want to see mag dks get easy access to minor protection in pvp through a skill most of them already use.
Minor protection was just one idea. If magicka Dk went with hardened armor, they would have to sacrifice the damage from volatile armor that scales with their magicka and spell damage. I’m positive that most mDKs use Volatile armor in PvE and PvP. Why would PvP magDK opt for a morph with a max health based damage shield that’s also cut in half by battle spirit?
Other change ideas I suggested for hardened armor that would benefit all DKs rather than just high health builds included: increased damage return, a change to physical damage return, and increased duration. There are many other ways this morph could be more useful to everyone.Edited by Samsquanch on January 24, 2019 9:35PM0