Argonians should get 1000 stamina as well
ArgonianAustin
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Here's my stamina nightblade stats in pvp. The left 2 boxes is my argonian stats. The right box is the new pts khajiit stats.
When I read the new racial changes, in my opinion khajiit got great changes! So I was excited to see if argonians got a stamina bonus but instead no changes, only nerfs. I would be ok with nerfs but I hoping a rework of the argonian racials like max health/stamina/magicka and maybe recoveries. Remove the potion passive and change it to recovery. The reason why I bring up khajiit is because it got a full on hybrid change. I was hoping argonian would go that way. I won't race change because I love argonians. With 1000 stamina i can gain more health because I keep my stamina at 30k max and put rest to health.
Edited by ArgonianAustin on January 24, 2019 12:15AM When I read the new racial changes, in my opinion khajiit got great changes! So I was excited to see if argonians got a stamina bonus but instead no changes, only nerfs. I would be ok with nerfs but I hoping a rework of the argonian racials like max health/stamina/magicka and maybe recoveries. Remove the potion passive and change it to recovery. The reason why I bring up khajiit is because it got a full on hybrid change. I was hoping argonian would go that way. I won't race change because I love argonians. With 1000 stamina i can gain more health because I keep my stamina at 30k max and put rest to health.
Just a Lizard Man that plays ESO with my twin brother khajiit_kyle
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SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS decided to turn Argonians into handbags. I mean, people joked about that before, but now it's actually going to happen. :'( :'( :'(2 -
Soleya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Based on their voices, it's pretty obvious that argonians are heavy smokers, so they would have less stamina.
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Using kiddies font does your post no good.
Crayons never win an arguement
I saw two kids fighting at a preschool and one of them managed to poke the other in the eye with a crayon. Safe to say, he won that argument."You are brave and you are strong, of this there is no doubt. But without me at your side, your deeds will go unknown, your death unwept and your story unsung - Sings-In-Shade, the Argonian Bard6 -
p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArgonianAustin wrote: »I was hoping argonian would go that way. I won't race change because I love argonians. With 1000 stamina i can gain more health because I keep my stamina at 30k max and put rest to health.
You do forget your 1st passive yes? Yes talking to the one you use drinks......
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Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Argonians are only for RP now. Every other race has more recourse or dmg passives or both.1 -
ArgonianAustin✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »ArgonianAustin wrote: »I was hoping argonian would go that way. I won't race change because I love argonians. With 1000 stamina i can gain more health because I keep my stamina at 30k max and put rest to health.
You do forget your 1st passive yes? Yes talking to the one you use drinks......
I don't understand what you mean, but yes I use drinks.Just a Lizard Man that plays ESO with my twin brother khajiit_kyle0 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.3 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
That's nice. If you are tank. But how is that helping if dps. As magica dps I dont care about some extra stam or health. All I want is magica. That 3600 extra magica only equals 160 regen if 45 sec cooldown. And dont tell me about that jewelery enchant, I would lose spell dmg. Now look at how much sustain some other races got from the new passives. And the ones that didn't, got more than 1k mag/stam or dmg buff or both. So no Argonians are not fine. That 160 regen is a joke.1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree.
I think that giving them a flat 1K to all three stats would make sense considering they get even amounts of all three stat returns with a potion. (Edit: or heck, even 1K to health and 750 to stam and mag)
If you look at the big recent testing thread, they show "decent" showing in mag DPS and "fair" in stam mainly for the regen. I think allowing them to be "decent" in either stam or mag DPS is not asking much. (I also think Nord and Imperial should be allowed to be 'decent' as well at those roles since every other race pushes into "great" and "excellent" territory. But I'm mainly talking Argonian b/c it's what I know and what the thread is about).
Giving them the flat stat across the board would also prevent the extra stealth nerf to health tank builds (on top of the obvious nerf that 1K isn't equal to 9%) that people aren't considering as you are forced to take points out of health to raise your stam higher than your magicka so you get stam return (if you want that) when you pick up a shard/orb. And it would be negligible to get the stat on a race that focused on one, b/c having 1K more magicka on a stam build wouldn't really be a 'buff' in overall power, just 'nice' - kind of like getting the extra potion resource is of your non-main resource.Edited by xaraan on January 24, 2019 5:30AM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
That's nice. If you are tank. But how is that helping if dps. As magica dps I dont care about some extra stam or health. All I want is magica. That 3600 extra magica only equals 160 regen if 45 sec cooldown. And dont tell me about that jewelery enchant, I would lose spell dmg. Now look at how much sustain some other races got from the new passives. And the ones that didn't, got more than 1k mag/stam or dmg buff or both. So no Argonians are not fine. That 160 regen is a joke.
Argonians will be good tanks and healers even after nerf, now look at orcs, bosmers, redguards - they have very slight bonuses for tanking and ZERO bonuses to healing and so stucked in stamdps role or as inferior tanks, so if you wanna buff argonians dps wise, you need to buff stamina races with magicka bonuses too, so they at least have something to help them if they are tanks or healers.2 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
That's nice. If you are tank. But how is that helping if dps. As magica dps I dont care about some extra stam or health. All I want is magica. That 3600 extra magica only equals 160 regen if 45 sec cooldown. And dont tell me about that jewelery enchant, I would lose spell dmg. Now look at how much sustain some other races got from the new passives. And the ones that didn't, got more than 1k mag/stam or dmg buff or both. So no Argonians are not fine. That 160 regen is a joke.
Argonians will be good tanks and healers even after nerf, now look at orcs, bosmers, redguards - they have very slight bonuses for tanking and ZERO bonuses to healing and so stucked in stamdps role or as inferior tanks, so if you wanna buff argonians dps wise, you need to buff stamina races with magicka bonuses too, so they at least have something to help them if they are tanks or healers.
That would be fine with me. I think every race should be able to perform decently at any role and it could still be done by offering different flavor passives according to the race.
But, even with that said. Support passives matter less than DPS passives - the only thing that matters for healing and tanking is getting the job done, not your max numbers like a DPS role where it's very easily measured. This is also why players 'guesswork' about how strong some support passives are all over the place. There are also other considerations for support that can be useful, for example one of my tanking partners in my trial guild has an orc tank and he finds the speed boost he gets actually more useful than stat return he says he rarely needs on top of DK ulti return and tri-pots. Personally, I've seen more racial variety in tanks in end-game trials than I've seen in DPS builds.
Asking to at least be ranked "decent" at dps roles isn't asking much when others are three+ ranks higher in excellent for several different dps or good and great and excellent at every dps role. I don't think any 'tanking' class would be suddenly OP by asking to be more than just viable or bad. Especially as DPS is often the more interesting playstyle in the game with tanking getting more and more grueling every patch.
Many of the racials are much more evenly matched than before, but things are still not balanced and fair for all and it's even more of a shame b/c of how close they came to getting it right.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
That's nice. If you are tank. But how is that helping if dps. As magica dps I dont care about some extra stam or health. All I want is magica. That 3600 extra magica only equals 160 regen if 45 sec cooldown. And dont tell me about that jewelery enchant, I would lose spell dmg. Now look at how much sustain some other races got from the new passives. And the ones that didn't, got more than 1k mag/stam or dmg buff or both. So no Argonians are not fine. That 160 regen is a joke.
Because they were designed with healing in mind. I have a magicka Imperial character, thats just the way it is. Argonians are fine, they're a support race.Edited by D0PAMINE on January 24, 2019 7:14AM1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ArgonianAustin wrote: »
Nah, pretty sure ZOS is noticing on the high end heals are getting out of control, esp. crit healing. You'd be surprised how high you can heal in the game, even in PvP.1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
No, we are not "fine". Our performance as a whole as dropped in every single area of the game; Our Tanks lost an effective 60% drop in their self healing due to the removal of the 5% healing received and 1% healing done, our Healers lost some sustain as well as some of their healing potency, putting them behind Breton and just on par with Altmer in terms of Healing, our DPS has dropped because of the reduced sustain and our PvP performance is at an all time low when you couple everything else with the Poison Status immunity removal.
To say that we're "fine" is jaded ignorance and little more.
[snip]
[Edited to remove quote of removed content]Edited by ZOS_Ragnar on January 24, 2019 1:26PMArgonian forever1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
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ArgonianSilver_Strider wrote: »Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
No, we are not "fine". Our performance as a whole as dropped in every single area of the game; Our Tanks lost an effective 60% drop in their self healing due to the removal of the 5% healing received and 1% healing done, our Healers lost some sustain as well as some of their healing potency, putting them behind Breton and just on par with Altmer in terms of Healing, our DPS has dropped because of the reduced sustain and our PvP performance is at an all time low when you couple everything else with the Poison Status immunity removal.
To say that we're "fine" is jaded ignorance and little more.I thought my argonian comment posted? anyways argonians shouldn't really be considered a race therefore they shouldn't have racials. to properly balance argonians, I think their racials should be removed.
I'm still waiting for a response about why your comments are completely useless and you feel the need to come into every Argonian related thread to waste everyone's time. Go cry about Magic Dunmer DK or something somewhere else.
Decent - All Magicka Roles
Fair - All Stamina Roles
Notes - They have good sustain overall and should be viable enough for most DPS roles
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score#latest
Same place they were before.
Oh and @Aliyavana's comment, hes the guy who improves UESP articles adding lore amd photos, including Argonia Lore. Take a joke.Edited by D0PAMINE on January 24, 2019 8:21AM1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
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ArgonianSilver_Strider wrote: »Argonians get a dilluted tri pot on top of whatever potion they use. They're fine.
No, we are not "fine". Our performance as a whole as dropped in every single area of the game; Our Tanks lost an effective 60% drop in their self healing due to the removal of the 5% healing received and 1% healing done, our Healers lost some sustain as well as some of their healing potency, putting them behind Breton and just on par with Altmer in terms of Healing, our DPS has dropped because of the reduced sustain and our PvP performance is at an all time low when you couple everything else with the Poison Status immunity removal.
To say that we're "fine" is jaded ignorance and little more.I thought my argonian comment posted? anyways argonians shouldn't really be considered a race therefore they shouldn't have racials. to properly balance argonians, I think their racials should be removed.
I'm still waiting for a response about why your comments are completely useless and you feel the need to come into every Argonian related thread to waste everyone's time. Go cry about Magic Dunmer DK or something somewhere else.
Decent - All Magicka Roles
Fair - All Stamina Roles
Notes - They have good sustain overall and should be viable enough for most DPS roles
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score#latest
Same place they were before.
I've already seen and commented on that post. It covers DPS roles in PvE only. It doesn't factor in Tanks, Healers or PvP performance at all, all of which have been reduced on Argonians. We're NOT in the same place as we were before, else Argonians would still be tied with Altmer and Breton as healers (Breton is the better healer now due to the huge sustain buff it got and our meager 4% extra healing does not make up for that fact) and while I'm fine with our Tank performance being on more leveled flooring with Nords and Imperials, it doesn't change the fact that we're still worse off than before in that role as well, to say nothing of our PvP performance.
I'm not even asking for a huge buff at all, nor a buff only to Argonians as I've suggested Imperial and Nord buffs within that self same thread you linked because, regardless of their mild tank bonuses, that doesn't mean some help in enjoying other areas of the game is instantly going to break them and make them OP. FFS, Orcs were a Tank Race prior to these changes as well but it still had decent DPS potential, even if it wasn't the outright best and Imperials prior to these changes were in the same boat but after these changes, Orcs are now BiS Stamina DPS while Imperials dropped to absolute last place in everything so no, I don't accept the whole "Tank Race must be gimped in DPS" nonsense everyone is so happy to spit out and I will continue to voice my displeasure at these changes until something is done to improve the standings of Argonians, Nords and Imperials.Oh and @Aliyavana's comment, hes the guy who improves UESP articles adding lore amd photos, including Argonia Lore. Take a joke.
This stopped being a joke after the 300th time they've written it. It's meaningless clutter that adds nothing to the conversation and is pretty much just there to be a nuisance at this point.Edited by Silver_Strider on January 24, 2019 8:58AMArgonian forever0 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭Queue the community rep who is going to tell you that unless you are going for score runs, you'll be fine. And if you are, just respec to the appropriate race.0
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p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ArgonianAustin wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »ArgonianAustin wrote: »I was hoping argonian would go that way. I won't race change because I love argonians. With 1000 stamina i can gain more health because I keep my stamina at 30k max and put rest to health.
You do forget your 1st passive yes? Yes talking to the one you use drinks......
I don't understand what you mean, but yes I use drinks.
Resourceful : Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
That is added on top of the potion.0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »ArgonianAustin wrote: »p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »ArgonianAustin wrote: »I was hoping argonian would go that way. I won't race change because I love argonians. With 1000 stamina i can gain more health because I keep my stamina at 30k max and put rest to health.
You do forget your 1st passive yes? Yes talking to the one you use drinks......
I don't understand what you mean, but yes I use drinks.
Resourceful : Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
That is added on top of the potion.
And it means next to nothing in real application. In PvE content, only Tanks could truly benefit from this passive and even then it's not necessary if you manage yourself properly; it's pretty much only a crutch for Tanks that can't sustain. Healers are naturally built for sustain so the passive is hardly useful for them, especially now when Breton has so much nature sustain already built in that Argonian can't keep up.As for DPS, they use potions on CD to maintain their buffs anyways, with the main resource being the only significant part of the effect that's worth mentioning since healers cover for the health part and the off resource has limited usage anyways that you find yourself full on it more often than not, unless all hell breaks loss but even then, the potion passive isn't saving you there anyways.
It has more value in PvP but again, it can only carry you so far and considering that everything else on Argonian has been nerfed to such a large extent, the passive isn't going to help much there either. Our weaker self heals combined with no longer having poison immunity and the nerf to the sustain from the potion passive have removed such much of our staying power that it's really not that great of a PvP race anymore. Disease Damage is pretty much limited to Disease Enchantments, which are weaker than practically every other form of enchantment anyways, and Incap Strike, which Defiles you regardless of immunity to Disease, making that passive completely worthless in both PvE and PvP, save the 1k health it provides.
At this point, I'd rather they completely removed the potion passive because it's done nothing but cause us to be nerfed time and time again.Edited by Silver_Strider on January 24, 2019 11:38AMArgonian forever0
