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Racial Passives - Revert the % modifier to max stats
amir412
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Seems like most of the community was wrong, thinking that this change isnt hitting our stats as much, as most of (me aswell) thought that new flat stats changes will get increased by other modifiers such as 20% from CP.
IMO this change is bad -
* Literally made max stats build useless, affecting sets such hulking, necro, etc - Choosing these sets over weapon dmg sets are already at disadvantage currently at live.
* Build diversity will die even more - after this change, no theorycrafter can get away with the fact that stacking weapon/spell dmg will be much more affective.
Some races has a max stats increase + weapon/spell dmg stats (which gets modified by major brutality etc) + some sustain passive,
While stamina dont have an identical race option.
* 258 Spell/Weapon dmg passive is already stronger than 2k stamina, and gets buffed by modifiers????
Suggestions-
* Make the flat stats scale as basic stats so the loss wont be that big for max stam/hp/mag pushers.
or
* Revert the change to 10%/6% as it was in the past.
That way the nerf wont be major - its really not fair for max stats builds, that finding workarounds through the hard times called META.
Discuss.
Edited by amir412 on January 24, 2019 7:52AM IMO this change is bad -
* Literally made max stats build useless, affecting sets such hulking, necro, etc - Choosing these sets over weapon dmg sets are already at disadvantage currently at live.
* Build diversity will die even more - after this change, no theorycrafter can get away with the fact that stacking weapon/spell dmg will be much more affective.
Some races has a max stats increase + weapon/spell dmg stats (which gets modified by major brutality etc) + some sustain passive,
While stamina dont have an identical race option.
* 258 Spell/Weapon dmg passive is already stronger than 2k stamina, and gets buffed by modifiers????
Suggestions-
* Make the flat stats scale as basic stats so the loss wont be that big for max stam/hp/mag pushers.
or
* Revert the change to 10%/6% as it was in the past.
That way the nerf wont be major - its really not fair for max stats builds, that finding workarounds through the hard times called META.
Discuss.
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well Saidden, my old friend. An illusionary spell was cast on our eyes, which has now been lifted.
These changes are bad and a nerf for everyone, not only for ressource stacking people as they claim and shame.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.4 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the changes, but then again I'm not stacking mag to 50K+ like some people. To leave the passives as they are for that population is exactly what makes build variety garbage in the game, and I hope they don't go back to %-anything.13 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like the changes, but then again I'm not stacking mag to 50K+ like some people. To leave the passives as they are for that population is exactly what makes build variety garbage in the game, and I hope they don't go back to %-anything.
I dont get ur point, by what ure saying is that everyone should use the same build, and gear their char like you do.
I dont see how letting pepole play with 50k mag with 1.9k spell dmg - is turning the build variety into garbage, its literally the opoosite.
Since i like high stats pool, i can say the same, builds with 5k weapon dmg and 35k stam should not exists - and it literally doesnt prove ur point, it shrinks the builds diversity.
I struggle to understand ur point.2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Any max stats nerf is a MASSIVE nerf to Magicka and simultaneous undeserved buff to Stamina. Stamina builds ALREADY do more damage than Magicka builds... Why is ZOS making the imbalance worse?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Any max stats nerf is a MASSIVE nerf to Magicka and simultaneous undeserved buff to Stamina. Stamina builds ALREADY do more damage than Magicka builds... Why is ZOS making the imbalance worse?
Coming from PVP prespective, you are also right.
Stamina, to me at least feels like over performing vs magicka classes after the recent change,
Also most magicka users has 40k+ mag, some cases 43k+,
That change going to affect them by alot as they will have small shields etc..1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't get why they don't let the racial bonuses scale properly. I do like flat bonuses more than multipliers, at least without softcaps/diminishing returns. Allows you to make better use of passives unfitting for your build. But no CP scaling just means max stats aren't as good as other racial passives.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU4 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the changes, but then again I'm not stacking mag to 50K+ like some people. To leave the passives as they are for that population is exactly what makes build variety garbage in the game, and I hope they don't go back to %-anything.
I dont get ur point, by what ure saying is that everyone should use the same build, and gear their char like you do.
I dont see how letting pepole play with 50k mag with 1.9k spell dmg - is turning the build variety into garbage, its literally the opoosite.
Since i like high stats pool, i can say the same, builds with 5k weapon dmg and 35k stam should not exists - and it literally doesnt prove ur point, it shrinks the builds diversity.
I struggle to understand ur point.
I'm not saying that anyone should use a build similar to mine. I'm simply saying that the current system only benefits players that stacked mag, something that ZOS apparently has issues with otherwise they wouldn't have nerfed sheilds. The problem is ZOS did not change these skills that only get stronger with mag or spell damage has little to no effect on. That's something that should have been changed when they nerfed shields, but you know how balance operates in this game by now...Bad sets/changes get pushed, only to be retroactively "fixed" a long time later.
I actually the aim of all the % changes is not just for balance but for reducing server load. Some of the other changes would also reduce checks on the server. If you think about how much floating point is used in this game, its not very hard to see how the server cannot really handle battles in PvP. Considering what they are planning to add will cause more fighting in one area, it would not be surprising if that is part of the motivation behind the changes.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like the changes, but then again I'm not stacking mag to 50K+ like some people. To leave the passives as they are for that population is exactly what makes build variety garbage in the game, and I hope they don't go back to %-anything.
Also less percentages always calculating could mean less lag in heavy combat situations.
Just another noise thread.Edited by Minno on January 24, 2019 12:14PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the change in general but i don't like the way it doesnt interact with CP. Either everything should interact with CP or nothing. Or might aswell change CP % to just more base stats2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the change in general but i don't like the way it doesnt interact with CP. Either everything should interact with CP or nothing. Or might aswell change CP % to just more base stats
This is actually one thing I'd like to see them do for the CP system, reintegrate the max stats into character base stats, ideally working without CP to make balancing easier.
But as you said, while the rest of the game doesn't work this way, it shouldn't be the case for racial passives either.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
martijnlv40✭✭✭I totally agree with this changing. Just a flat bonus is a really big nerf. I think they chose to do this because of power creep, but I would say that changing stats higher in the end-game place (not racial passives which everyone uses, but changing certain trial sets or PvP sets) would be more benificial to the health of the game.
I do however have an alternative;
As Gilliam said, they intented to make the racial passives 6.5 times a set bonus. Obviously, normal stat bonuses stack with any % modifier, so that statement is either completely false, or they completely overlooked it. If every resource (and recovery) bonus currently proposed increased by 25%, it would also mitigate the issue of a big nerf. It will probably be a nerf still and make build diversity worse, but it's not as radical.
I am completely in favor of changing it to ACTUAL set bonuses.0 -
satanio✭✭✭✭Have you done any testing on the impact of the stat changes on PTS?
This post has some comparison.
brief and simplified test:
naked Imperial on live, every attribute in HP, every CP spent: Health: 22245 , stamina: 10505, magicka: 9550
formula: BaseStat * CP * sum(modifiers) * racialModifier
naked imperial on PTS, every attribute in HP, every CP spent: Health: 21862, stamina: 11550, Magicka: 9550
formula: BaseStat * CP * sum(modifiers) + (racialFlatValue) * sum(modifiers)
variable modifiers includes UndauntedMettle, armor passives that increases given stat and so on. To clarify the examples above -> My skill points were only in racials and I haven't got any other modifier active
To conclude, these new racials work just as Food buffs work right now on Live.Edited by satanio on January 24, 2019 1:41PM1 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mean... I for one quite like it.
I can play my dunmer and actually have tha bonus magicka actually count for something.
EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade1 -
TiZzA93✭✭✭My magden in pvp sits on 54k magika a glass cannon build guess im going to loose a ton of damage, altmer and all passives mages / undaunted etc 😪0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Build diversity is up because you can run an off meta race (for the class/build) and still benefit. I should start throwing up pictures of my bosmer magicka warden somewhere. I'm so happy about these changes for that character.
As for the overall nerfs...about time. I've never liked how important racials were in combat, and in general I don't think it' a good idea to have such powerful passives attached to an otherwise purely cosmetic thing.1 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭This is the intended result of the racial change. ZOS wants a general decrease in overall power. This is just one more system that has to pay the price for Champion Points. The overhaul of that system can't come soon enough, and I hope they rip it out of the game entirely.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is the intended result of the racial change. ZOS wants a general decrease in overall power. This is just one more system that has to pay the price for Champion Points. The overhaul of that system can't come soon enough, and I hope they rip it out of the game entirely.
I don't see why they need to reduce any power. Champion points are capped, let the current lvls of power stay.2 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm ok with the flat stats in the racial passives and the change in general even with it being a bit of a nerf in some cases. I still think this route is better for the game.
I would like all the % modifiers to be applied to them though. With the % modifiers not applying it seems like maybe they should be higher, but I feel like that is a minor gripe since really it would only amount to a few hundred more stamina/magicka.
On the other hand all or my Bosmer characters now have more regen and max stats without me having to spec into it so there is that...
On the other other hand, Khajiit is the only one left with a % based modifier and see how it scales the best with trial buffed DPS... maybe they should change it to add ~300-400 more damage to crits so it will be flat stats like everything else?Playing since beta...0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hate to say it, but I think that they are not done nerfing max stats yet. It may be a few more patch cycles, but I think all the percent modifiers of max stat will get reworked, and then they will rework CP further capping max resource...essentially bringing back soft caps through a different mechanism.
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dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No, the % modifier to max stats has always been stupid.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is the intended result of the racial change. ZOS wants a general decrease in overall power. This is just one more system that has to pay the price for Champion Points. The overhaul of that system can't come soon enough, and I hope they rip it out of the game entirely.
I don't see why they need to reduce any power. Champion points are capped, let the current lvls of power stay.
Maybe if we didn't have folks claiming the game is so easy they can beat everything with a naked level 4 unarmed toon we would see less nerfs.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe change all % buffs to a flat amount. Lower the stat ceilingsXbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.0 -
satanio✭✭✭✭Maybe change all % buffs to a flat amount. Lower the stat ceilings
Problem with traits, what would divines or infused on armor do?0 -
DKMaestro✭✭✭Everyone always complains and then adapts. Who cares if you have slightly less max stats than before? It is the same for everyone.
The constant whining is really quite off-putting!
Old man playing. Have a life, a job and only one character, which is grumpy (all the time)1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Everyone always complains and then adapts. Who cares if you have slightly less max stats than before? It is the same for everyone.
The constant whining is really quite off-putting!
It's actually important to note that in this instance, it significantly affects the balance between the new racial passives and is thus not the same for everyone. It helps those races with few and/or spread out max stats to compete with those with a lot into a single stat, whether they needed that or not.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0