I find the proposed changes for Khajiits a bit ironic

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx · January 2019

So this summer, a Chapter focused on the land of the Khajiit will comes out. At the same time, ZoS is reworking races. Well, I think most people would agree that Khajiits were hit hard with the changes. It'll be a hybrid race but the sustain is EVEN WORSE.

Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that with the changes, Khajiits would either be immensely buff or even be OP because of what's coming.
Did anyone think it was going to be like that before the notes came out?

Narvuntien · January 2019

Khajit have the highest dps for both magicka and stamina on the PTS.

MartiniDaniels · January 2019

Hodor guys already tested that khajiit will be best magicka dps, even altmer is behind. So yeah, all khajiits with exception of health recovery exploit builds, are buffed, while meta races were nerfed. You are top-notch and up-to-snuff now, kitty

ccfeeling · January 2019

There is only one race change token

Sylvermynx · January 2019

As a cat person IRL (even though I have only a dog at this point - long story, don't ask) I have to say that there is nothing in my RL experience (or my TES life since Arena on release day) which precludes cats having.... a LOT of abilities that seem to be.... magickal....

dovakiin5574 · January 2019

It's far more lore friendly if you remember Lunar Priests and the Alfiq are all Magicka masters

WeyounTM · January 2019

This one can only agree with @dovakiin5574 ! Most players have just come to think about ESO in its own lore-bubble. And here Khajiit were shoehorned into being a stam-race only. And a not particular overpowered one too. This one still remembers the outcry when there was a proposed change to Khajiit getting a max stam bonus ;-)

But this one still wants to adress the claims from the 1% elite of DPS players that now say Khajiit will be BIS and the outcry of Dunmer player that can't live without being "BIS": always take this BIS talk with a grain of salt.
Yes, the best player of the game might get the most out of a certain setup and call it "BIS". But you have to be the best player to get it done. That is what most people just don't get. Your playstyle and your skill is what matters most of all. And be honest with yourself: only a small portion of the playerbase will achieve numbers like HODOR and the like.
You don't need to change your race to Khajiit just because some elite player said so: do your own tests and you might see that you need the better sustain of another race instead of the raw power that might come with the crit. The people you run with in Dungeons or Trials might not be on par with buffing your sustain for example and being another race might give you better results for your particular skill-bubble....

But noooo....everybody just gets on the new META train regardless. Use your own brain for once and enjoy the game regardless of things that the youtubers tell you...they are not gods you know. Well at least some of them xD

Yasha · January 2019

xAk_MoRRoWiNdx wrote: »

So this summer, a Chapter focused on the land of the Khajiit will comes out. At the same time, ZoS is reworking races. Well, I think most people would agree that Khajiits were hit hard with the changes. It'll be a hybrid race but the sustain is EVEN WORSE.

Maybe it's just me, but I would have thought that with the changes, Khajiits would either be immensely buff or even be OP because of what's coming.
Did anyone think it was going to be like that before the notes came out?

Yep, totally agree with you. Now they are actually a better choice for a mag based toon (although max stats and recovery are still bad), which is a bizarre move. Would have been better to keep the stamina theme and add a relevant racial, like physical penetration or crit damage.

I hope at the least those regen stats are boosted- something like 125 stam/mag recovery and 75 health recovery would be nicer.

Seraphayel · January 2019

Yasha wrote: »

Yep, totally agree with you. Now they are actually a better choice for a mag based toon (although max stats and recovery are still bad), which is a bizarre move.

Why is this bizarre? Khajiit are as much capable of being Sorcerers / Magic users as Dunmer or Argonian lore-wise and that's why it makes sense (at least from a "racial advantage standpoint").

AbysmalGhul · January 2019

Skinrai's Jesus beam says otherwise

zaria · January 2019

All races are very close its down to 1% difference on an 50K parse for the top races.

Khajiit and Dunmer has an huge benefit of being able to do both magic and stamina builds well.
This is an much larger benefit than 300 more damage as you can switch depending on that being top or simply then bored.

Yasha · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

Yep, totally agree with you. Now they are actually a better choice for a mag based toon (although max stats and recovery are still bad), which is a bizarre move.

Why is this bizarre? Khajiit are as much capable of being Sorcerers / Magic users as Dunmer or Argonian lore-wise and that's why it makes sense (at least from a "racial advantage standpoint").

Overnight the Khajiit have gone from being a stam class to a better mag class, how is that not bizarre? Also, Khajiit in previous ES games are described as bad at magic, while Dunmer have some talent for it.

It would have been more consistent to give Khajiit something like physical pen instead of the magic crit. But maybe the coming of dragons has had a profound impact on the cats? Sparked their inner mage? I can only hope that at least the regen stats are boosted for stam and mag, 75 is just sad.

zaria wrote: »

Khajiit and Dunmer has an huge benefit of being able to do both magic and stamina builds well.
This is an much larger benefit than 300 more damage as you can switch depending on that being top or simply then bored.

Being a hybrid is not a "huge benefit", it is a curse. Dual sustain or max resources might have a place in some builds but no one in their right mind would willingly build damage in both directions.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@Yasha , lore surely does mention khajiits (especially certain subspecies) as having strong affinity for magic, so nothing bizarre about giving them balance that reflects race diversity as a whole.

But I will agree that khajiits are bit of "jack of all trades, master of none" thing now - yes, potential for damage is there if parses from PTS is any indication, but I strongly suspect that sustain will hold it back (because same parses are not quite sustainable - even with group support). Sure, sustain on both sides is useful sometimes, but for PvE damage dealers some passives will be dormant. I think that a small bump in sustain (and removal of the utterly useless health recovery) would put khajiits in good place.

zaria · January 2019

zaria wrote: »

Khajiit and Dunmer has an huge benefit of being able to do both magic and stamina builds well.
This is an much larger benefit than 300 more damage as you can switch depending on that being top or simply then bored.

Being a hybrid is not a "huge benefit", it is a curse. Dual sustain or max resources might have a place in some builds but no one in their right mind would willingly build damage in both directions.
[/quote]
Not hybrid, its either or. But you can just respec and put on other gear to switch.
And they will not let one race have an 1K benefit on an 50K parse or 2%.

But as it look like stamina get an nerf in this update you can make your nightblade magic.
if that changes in Q2 you can switch back again.

susmitds · January 2019

PvE wise, at least on the magicka side, Khajiit is a great place. PvPwise, they are essentially inferior Dunmers, reason being the very existenance of crit resistance makes Khajiit much weaker, ironically for the same reason they are so good in good in PvE. Basically with around 3000 crit resists on most opponents, Khajiit crit bonus is basically non-existant, weapon damage and max resources doesn't grow weaker, only stronger.

For this very reason, I would suggest redistributing, the health regen to the stamina and magicka regen to give them a bit more identity.

Cadbury · January 2019

Personally, I wouldn't start worrying until I see endgame runs asking for Khajiit only characters.

Yuffie91 · January 2019

So every chapter the main race of that chapter should be OP??

Yasha · January 2019

zaria wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Khajiit and Dunmer has an huge benefit of being able to do both magic and stamina builds well.
This is an much larger benefit than 300 more damage as you can switch depending on that being top or simply then bored.

Being a hybrid is not a "huge benefit", it is a curse. Dual sustain or max resources might have a place in some builds but no one in their right mind would willingly build damage in both directions.

Not hybrid, its either or. But you can just respec and put on other gear to switch.
And they will not let one race have an 1K benefit on an 50K parse or 2%.

But as it look like stamina get an nerf in this update you can make your nightblade magic.
if that changes in Q2 you can switch back again. [/quote]

No they will just be weaker at both stam and mag, that's just how hybrid damage specs work out. Also i have many toons, if I want a stam character I roll a character specifically tuned for that, same for a mag character. The hybrid gimmick is no boon for me.

Btw I think just quoting some 50K pve damage parse is a load of crock, all I see is a major opportunity loss for the "convenience" of swapping between mag and stam builds. If that 8% mag crit had been 8% physical penetration, or a bleed on melee attack, or any of a plethora of other thematically consistent bonuses Khajiit would have been a top choice for stamina builds while providing something unique from the other top stam choices.

susmitds · January 2019

Cadbury wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't start worrying until I see endgame runs asking for Khajiit only characters.

I doubt it. People predicted the same last racial update, only for Redguards still to be 80% stam DPS. Khajiit will be marginally better than Altmer on the mag side and tied for first 1st position in stam side with Orc and Dunmer, followed by Redguard and Bosmer only in absolutely perfect groups, that too for Nightblades and Templars mostly.

MajBludd · January 2019

Roll with the changes.

zaria · January 2019

Yasha wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Khajiit and Dunmer has an huge benefit of being able to do both magic and stamina builds well.
This is an much larger benefit than 300 more damage as you can switch depending on that being top or simply then bored.

Being a hybrid is not a "huge benefit", it is a curse. Dual sustain or max resources might have a place in some builds but no one in their right mind would willingly build damage in both directions.

Not hybrid, its either or. But you can just respec and put on other gear to switch.
And they will not let one race have an 1K benefit on an 50K parse or 2%.

But as it look like stamina get an nerf in this update you can make your nightblade magic.
if that changes in Q2 you can switch back again.

No they will just be weaker at both stam and mag, that's just how hybrid damage specs work out. Also i have many toons, if I want a stam character I roll a character specifically tuned for that, same for a mag character. The hybrid gimmick is no boon for me.

Btw I think just quoting some 50K pve damage parse is a load of crock, all I see is a major opportunity loss for the "convenience" of swapping between mag and stam builds. If that 8% mag crit had been 8% physical penetration, or a bleed on melee attack, or any of a plethora of other thematically consistent bonuses Khajiit would have been a top choice for stamina builds while providing something unique from the other top stam choices.[/quote]
Referring to this test
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1
Its clear they don't want any race to dominate so you would not get an huge benefit over others.

Now test is self buffed. In an trial there both healers wear
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Symphony+of+Blades+Set
well low sustain start becoming less of an issue.

Yasha · January 2019

zaria wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Khajiit and Dunmer has an huge benefit of being able to do both magic and stamina builds well.
This is an much larger benefit than 300 more damage as you can switch depending on that being top or simply then bored.

Being a hybrid is not a "huge benefit", it is a curse. Dual sustain or max resources might have a place in some builds but no one in their right mind would willingly build damage in both directions.

Not hybrid, its either or. But you can just respec and put on other gear to switch.
And they will not let one race have an 1K benefit on an 50K parse or 2%.

But as it look like stamina get an nerf in this update you can make your nightblade magic.
if that changes in Q2 you can switch back again.

No they will just be weaker at both stam and mag, that's just how hybrid damage specs work out. Also i have many toons, if I want a stam character I roll a character specifically tuned for that, same for a mag character. The hybrid gimmick is no boon for me.

Btw I think just quoting some 50K pve damage parse is a load of crock, all I see is a major opportunity loss for the "convenience" of swapping between mag and stam builds. If that 8% mag crit had been 8% physical penetration, or a bleed on melee attack, or any of a plethora of other thematically consistent bonuses Khajiit would have been a top choice for stamina builds while providing something unique from the other top stam choices.

Referring to this test
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1
Its clear they don't want any race to dominate so you would not get an huge benefit over others.

Now test is self buffed. In an trial there both healers wear
https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Symphony+of+Blades+Set
well low sustain start becoming less of an issue. [/quote]

You don't appear to understand what I am saying, just stay ignorant that's fine with me.

John_Falstaff · January 2019

@Yasha , to be frank, with the amount of nerf threads, I don't think Symphony of Blades will live long in its current state, though personally I would very much like it to make it to live.

Robo_Hobo · January 2019

I'm really enjoying seeing all of the threads complaining about Khajiits being too OP and then seeing other threads saying they're nerfed too much, sometimes both on the front page at the same time. Almost the same situation for most of the other races too.

zaria · January 2019

Yasha wrote: »

You don't appear to understand what I am saying, just stay ignorant that's fine with me.

I understand you, you want an buff to Khajiit. Problem is that this either has to be so small its irrelevant or so strong its OP.
They have balanced the races very well for pve so they don't want some to come out even 2% above others.

I prefer the new racials because the flexibility.

AlboMalefica · January 2019

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

It's far more lore friendly if you remember Lunar Priests and the Alfiq are all Magicka masters

Would love the Alfiq to a be playable race, impossible & will never happen but how funny would be it be with 4 lizards and a pack of cats defeating Z’Maja 😂

And obviously all being followed by 12 pet rocks 😝

zaria · January 2019

AlboMalefica wrote: »

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

It's far more lore friendly if you remember Lunar Priests and the Alfiq are all Magicka masters

Would love the Alfiq to a be playable race, impossible & will never happen but how funny would be it be with 4 lizards and a pack of cats defeating Z’Maja 😂

And obviously all being followed by 12 pet rocks 😝

Mettaricana · January 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Hodor guys already tested that khajiit will be best magicka dps, even altmer is behind. So yeah, all khajiits with exception of health recovery exploit builds, are buffed, while meta races were nerfed. You are top-notch and up-to-snuff now, kitty

I cant wait to laugh on consoles where no one reads patch notes and the random party kicks for khajiit magicka builds because they have no clue about the mag changes for them and then they get out parsed by khajiit sorcs it'll be fun forst few weeks

dovakiin5574 · January 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Yasha , lore surely does mention khajiits (especially certain subspecies) as having strong affinity for magic, so nothing bizarre about giving them balance that reflects race diversity as a whole.

But I will agree that khajiits are bit of "jack of all trades, master of none" thing now - yes, potential for damage is there if parses from PTS is any indication, but I strongly suspect that sustain will hold it back (because same parses are not quite sustainable - even with group support). Sure, sustain on both sides is useful sometimes, but for PvE damage dealers some passives will be dormant. I think that a small bump in sustain (and removal of the utterly useless health recovery) would put khajiits in good place.

But they are the best thieves! But that is a bit racist so I apologize but still... Lol