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Future plan to remove max resources from damage calculations?
Matthros
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My apologies in advanced if there is a discussion about this already.
As you are all aware currently damage is calculated using a combination of max resources and spell/weapon power.
Perhaps in the future their plan is to change the calculations to only use spell/weapon power and only have max resources for using abilities?
This would lessen the impact of some of the changes they are making with a few races in update 21.
With the racial max resources being changed from percentages to flat values this should reduce calculations across the board which will increase performance.
In addition this would make hybrid builds way more viable since their resources are spread out more evenly.
As you are all aware currently damage is calculated using a combination of max resources and spell/weapon power.
Perhaps in the future their plan is to change the calculations to only use spell/weapon power and only have max resources for using abilities?
This would lessen the impact of some of the changes they are making with a few races in update 21.
With the racial max resources being changed from percentages to flat values this should reduce calculations across the board which will increase performance.
In addition this would make hybrid builds way more viable since their resources are spread out more evenly.
5
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Latios✭✭✭✭✭Hmmm... If they did this, those races that give weapon/spell power would outperform and all the balance changes would mean almost nothing.
I don't have a clear insight as to what should be done.The Eon Pokémon.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Following this logic they will replace class and undaunted passives % bonuses with flat values too, both resource pool, resource restore and damage %. After that RPG part of the game will change into plain and tasteless POS.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It would be logical, each bullet in an gun does not do more damage with an larger magazine it simply let you shoot more bullets. Same with magic or stamina in the TES games.
Still it would require lots of changes to racials and sets.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭I suppose that flat values will reduce damage and mitigation calculation. Better performance?Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭I doubt this would ever be possible because races like Argonian with minor Magicka stats would need to be given "Spell Damage" or "Spell Critical" and it just doesn't make sense for them as a race focused around nearly pure resistance, health, and regeneration. I was about to make the case that it could work, but I stopped to think if it would even make sense for some races.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, what you are suggesting would be HORRIBLE and only widen the gap between overpowered Stamina and long-suffering Magicka builds!#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
Matthros✭✭✭I suppose that flat values will reduce damage and mitigation calculation. Better performance?
Better performance since max resources would be taken out of the calculation for damage values. For example when two big groups fighting in Cyrodiil all spamming skills there will be less calculations done which should increase performance and reduce lag.2 -
Matthros✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »No, what you are suggesting would be HORRIBLE and only widen the gap between overpowered Stamina and long-suffering Magicka builds!
How would it be horrible? The damage calculation would be shifted to only weapon and spell power so as a magicka char you could put more resources into health or stamina and have the same damage with a lesser magicka pool. With the more health and stamina you could survive longer and have more stamina to block, roll dodge, and break free.
For a stamina char you could put more into health and magicka to survive longer and be able to utilize more utility spells in your class.
To compensate they could adjust light armor to add spell damage since medium armor has the weapon damage passive.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »No, what you are suggesting would be HORRIBLE and only widen the gap between overpowered Stamina and long-suffering Magicka builds!
How would it be horrible? The damage calculation would be shifted to only weapon and spell power so as a magicka char you could put more resources into health or stamina and have the same damage with a lesser magicka pool. With the more health and stamina you could survive longer and have more stamina to block, roll dodge, and break free.
For a stamina char you could put more into health and magicka to survive longer and be able to utilize more utility spells in your class.
To compensate they could adjust light armor to add spell damage since medium armor has the weapon damage passive.
Even on sets Weapon Damage is a lot easier to come by than Spell Damage. Most magicka builds hit very low spell damage numbers and compensate with high max magicka. Adding spell damage to light armor despite it already having a hefty penetration and spell critical while medium still has to deal with their "Improved Sneak" passive is more than unfair though.
Such a change will require a full-scale rebalance that is just not worth it 5 years into game cycle.1 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Been suggested for the past 5 years. Maybe with the changes in the combat team this is on the table, but I feel they have other ideas.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Maybe a cap on resources to add to damage value.
Like 20k magicka and 200 spelldamage, but everything above 20k magicka doesn't add up. So if i have 45k magicka i only get an extra 200 spelldamage.
Would give people more choice for hybrid builds, and also every damage spec is now putting 64 points in one attribute and maybe then distribute it a bit over 3 stats.Edited by Knootewoot on January 18, 2019 3:02PM٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."2 -
Matthros✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »No, what you are suggesting would be HORRIBLE and only widen the gap between overpowered Stamina and long-suffering Magicka builds!
How would it be horrible? The damage calculation would be shifted to only weapon and spell power so as a magicka char you could put more resources into health or stamina and have the same damage with a lesser magicka pool. With the more health and stamina you could survive longer and have more stamina to block, roll dodge, and break free.
For a stamina char you could put more into health and magicka to survive longer and be able to utilize more utility spells in your class.
To compensate they could adjust light armor to add spell damage since medium armor has the weapon damage passive.
Even on sets Weapon Damage is a lot easier to come by than Spell Damage. Most magicka builds hit very low spell damage numbers and compensate with high max magicka. Adding spell damage to light armor despite it already having a hefty penetration and spell critical while medium still has to deal with their "Improved Sneak" passive is more than unfair though.
Such a change will require a full-scale rebalance that is just not worth it 5 years into game cycle.
For light armor I would suggest keeping the spell penetration and add spell damage. For medium armor I would suggest replacing Improved Sneak with physical penetration and move Improved Sneak to the Legerdemain skill line so it will benefit all players in any armor type who wishes to use it.
For me it appears that they are starting a big re-balance due to the changes they want to implement with the races.
The Lead Combat Designer also changed so they may be going in a different direction now.Edited by Matthros on January 18, 2019 3:36PM0 -
Matthros✭✭✭I doubt this would ever be possible because races like Argonian with minor Magicka stats would need to be given "Spell Damage" or "Spell Critical" and it just doesn't make sense for them as a race focused around nearly pure resistance, health, and regeneration. I was about to make the case that it could work, but I stopped to think if it would even make sense for some races.
For Argonians they are balanced out with having lower max resources due to their potion passive.
Even with the new racial passives there will still be a choice of picking a race with more sustain and one with more damage.0 -
Rukzadlithau✭✭✭✭Resources should always have accounted for defensive values, Weapon Power for offensive ones only. Light/Heavy Attacks should have been a static value depending on weapon type.Edited by Rukzadlithau on January 18, 2019 4:39PM1
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Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Problem with this would be gank builds. Unless you want everyone's DPS to drop roughly in half, requiring a complete rebalance of 5 years worth of game content, you would need to make spell/weapon damage give a much bigger buff to damage tooltips. You could therefore have builds that go all in on spell/weapon damage, with little max stat, but could do absolutely massive burst damage.0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Max resources being included in damage calculations is counterintuitive and strange. I didn't realize they were included in them at all for, gosh, probably an entire year? I assumed that like Skyrim, the resource pools were just resource pools. There were (and still are) no tooltips telling you "oh, hey, this also increases your damage with abilities that cost magicka."
I hear there used to be soft caps for how much resources impacted damage calculations. That seems like a good idea to help with the problem of the massive gaps in damage dealers for this game. I'm not sure about getting rid of resources impacting it entirely, though I wouldn't be upset if it did (because it makes no sense to me).2 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hybrid builds could become a thing if that happened. I personally wouldn't mind a complete overhaul of the combat mechanics like in 1.6 again and that might actually be a good thing for the game.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
Matthros✭✭✭Dagoth_Rac wrote: »Problem with this would be gank builds. Unless you want everyone's DPS to drop roughly in half, requiring a complete rebalance of 5 years worth of game content, you would need to make spell/weapon damage give a much bigger buff to damage tooltips. You could therefore have builds that go all in on spell/weapon damage, with little max stat, but could do absolutely massive burst damage.
Yes burst damage will be increased with that type of build but they are sacrificing a lot. They may be able to one shot a player which they can pretty much do now but they will have less resources for their skills and to escape such as cloak, roll dodge, break free, etc if caught.
For players using a Wood Elf or Khajiit the Stealthy passive will been removed so no more increase damage from stealth by 10% which will help control their burst damage.0
