Imperial racial changes

vesselwiththepestle · January 2019

I just recently bought the DLC, another character slot and started an Imperial character because I thought "they will SURELY be considerably be buffed with the upcoming changes" (and I didn't wanted to make another Redguard).

Now I guess I'll just use the free race change token to make him Redguard like my other Stam DPS, too.

FilteredRiddle · January 2019

Marshall1289 wrote: »

FilteredRiddle The math you used is flawed for 2 reasons and is spreading misinformation. [...] I'll edit this post later and try to do the math for 1 of my Stam DPS, but the disparity isn't as big as you think. In fact I have a feeling it's a slight buff in some cases.

I have elected to ignore other bonuses for the purpose of simple explanations. In my response in another thread, I explicitly stated, "While I realize there are multiple things contributing to that number, for ease..."

However, there are others who are willing to do all of the math:

t3hasiangod wrote:

Reddit Link
The 20 percent boost from CP is separate from all other percentage boosts.

Here is the entire resource pool formula for Magicka and Stamina:

((142 * Level + 858 + 111 * Attribute.Magicka + Item.Magicka + Set.Magicka) * (1 + 0.004 * min(CP.Magicka, 100) - 0.00002 * pow(min(CP.Magicka, 100), 2)) + Food.Magicka + Mundus.Magicka + Skill2.Magicka) * (1 + Skill.Magicka + Buff.Magicka)

You can simplify this into the following:

(Base * 1.2) + (Food + Mundus + Skill2) * (1 + Percentage Boosts)

Therefore, to find your breakeven point (we will define this as x), you need to do the following:

x * 1.2 * (1 + Percentage Boosts) = (x+2000) * 1.2 * (1 + Percentage Boosts - Racial Passive)

Your typical end-game PvE stamina DPS will have the following percentage boosts:

0.1 - Warhorn

0.1 to 0 - Racial Passive

0.02 - Undaunted Passive

0.08 - Bound Armaments (sorcs only)

Therefore, the breakeven point for a Redguard would be as follows:

x * 1.2 * 1.22 = (x + 2000) * 1.2 * 1.12

1.464x = (x + 2000) * 1.344

1.464x = 1.344x + 2688

0.12x = 2688

x = 22400

Therefore, if your base stamina is below 22400, then this change is a buff. If your base stamina is above 22400, then this change is a nerf.

I repeat: these changes negatively impact Imperials in a major way and in no form represent balance or positive evolution.

Prax3des · January 2019

I'm really disappointed by the changes to Imperial specifically in an otherwise nice balance pass.

Imperial has always been my go-to stam race because I'm fond of them in other TES games. Even knowing it's not meta (and I've never asked for it to be!), I could build to its strengths by stacking max stat builds and prioritizing melee to proc the finicky Red Diamond on Jabs, Flurry, etc.

Obviously we're all losing some stat pool, but it affects Imperials profoundly because that was to many players its only strength. Definitely as far as PVP went, anyway.

I spent a lot of time testing my PVP and PVE builds tonight, and the changes to RD making it only proc on direct damage will absolutely gut the utility of my DPS toons, especially losing the proc on Jabs on my stamplar. The bash/block reduction are nice, but since Imperials were already pretty pigeonholed into tanking roles, this doesn't open any particularly new avenues at all for the race.

Adjusting the RD proc to "when you do damage" instead (just like, oh, Orcs and Redguards get this time around--even if you nerfed the % itself, it would still perform well) is my ideal mini-fix that doesn't require major overhaul, and it would add in some much-needed variety for the playstyle that it loses with a DD proc.

macsmooth · January 2019

Honestly I can see a cancer build in PvP just walking around holding block all day long, might just walk around that tree instead of hiding behind it to get a breather

I would have like to have seen more for the imperial not just what looks like effectively the dune ripper 5th piece given to it as a passive

I am so disappointed they never gave cost reduction to skills for the skill lines from the races passive they are still useless after you level the skill line up

Ash_In_My_Sujamma · January 2019

@FilteredRiddle Although you are right on the stat analysis, I think it's not a correct approach to the issue to simply compare the new stats with the old ones because all races lost their scaling from their passives so that puts them in the same train.
Having said that, I think that imperial lost more compared to the rest and the passives makes no sense and don't synergize well firstly because there is no incentive on investing on max hp or stam anymore, making that contradict with the fact that now imperial are intended for tank roles and secondly because they now lost all their damage capabilities since they won't have that nice fat stam pool. This makes them very situational and not appealing to players and guilds.
I strongly believe that they should rework the race before release and if not provide more flat stats (which will make no difference whatsoever imo), at least rework the red diamond passive. Imperial was never the jack of all traits before and it's certainly not now.

commdt · January 2019

macsmooth wrote: »

Honestly I can see a cancer build in PvP just walking around holding block all day long, might just walk around that tree instead of hiding behind it to get a breather

I would have like to have seen more for the imperial not just what looks like effectively the dune ripper 5th piece given to it as a passive

I am so disappointed they never gave cost reduction to skills for the skill lines from the races passive they are still useless after you level the skill line up

Ah well, this cancer build can sound nice, but in practice we have:
MIN block cost (3 x infused shieldplay, 25% from champ, 8 sturdy and shield passive) now before patch = 227
MIN block cost after patch with imperial = 216

So everything this glorious passive gives you is -11 block cost which is 0,66% (not 5,00) in comparison to current values

macsmooth · January 2019

commdt wrote: »

macsmooth wrote: »

Honestly I can see a cancer build in PvP just walking around holding block all day long, might just walk around that tree instead of hiding behind it to get a breather

I would have like to have seen more for the imperial not just what looks like effectively the dune ripper 5th piece given to it as a passive

I am so disappointed they never gave cost reduction to skills for the skill lines from the races passive they are still useless after you level the skill line up

Ah well, this cancer build can sound nice, but in practice we have:
MIN block cost (3 x infused shieldplay, 25% from champ, 8 sturdy and shield passive) now before patch = 227
MIN block cost after patch with imperial = 216

So everything this glorious passive gives you is -11 block cost which is 0,66% (not 5,00) in comparison to current values

I love when people throw maths around because that answers everything in this game, it’s not like gear skills enchants or even players patience and timing has nothing to do with it either but I won’t argue with you I will accept that blocking alone is all there is to it

MerlinPendragon · January 2019

Imperials will be fine.