Argo is definitely the most over-performing race as of Murkmire—but I agree they went a bit overboard with the nerfs.

I fear that ZOS will simlply kill some of argonians build diversity as pretty much every argonian build out there will now use at least one or two potion colldown jewelry enchants with infused jewelry.
Also tri-stat potion might become too relevant and playing as an argonian might simply become too expensive for majority of players. Big guilds with easy acces to crafted tri-stat potion in large numbers will have an advatage. The same way people with "wallets" might simply go to crown store and just buy crown tri-stat potions.

These nerfs are way too strong, potion passive sure i agree its really really strong but nerf to poison damage, health and magicka is really really bad for any argonian class.

The healing nerf is also very very bad just removes any argonian healers, as now high elf is just the best at everything magicka related "we want to equalise the races" you just made every race even more segregated it ruins any build and class diversity.

"Play as you want" does not exist its now play as a high elf if you want to ever be considered playing magicka dps. Play as redguard if you ever want to consider stamina dps.

Argonians are good for two things, healing and tanking and now they are worse at both. And argonian has never been good as a DPS class now made even worse by nerfed sustain.

I'd prefer Resourceful to give 1000 Magic OR Stamina with the potion passive following suit in restoring 1 resource + Health. So along the lines of this

Resourceful: Increase Max Magic or Stamina by 1000, depending on which is higher. Drinking a potion restores 4000 Health and 4000 Magic or Stamina, depending on which is higher.

As for the Health reduction, it really doesn't make sense that 9% health = 1000, 6% Health = 500 and 12% health = 2000. I could see 1000 for 6% and 1500 for 9% making much more sense.

Life Mender is the very definition of limiting racial diversity, not expanding it. It's shoehorning Argonian to be nothing but a Healer. I'd take Healing Received over Healing done since Healing done only applies to self heals whereas Healing received applies to both self heals and that done by other players, making it universally more useful.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I'd prefer Resourceful to give 1000 Magic OR Stamina with the potion passive following suit in restoring 1 resource + Health. So along the lines of this

Resourceful: Increase Max Magic or Stamina by 1000, depending on which is higher. Drinking a potion restores 4000 Health and 4000 Magic or Stamina, depending on which is higher.

As for the Health reduction, it really doesn't make sense that 9% health = 1000, 6% Health = 500 and 12% health = 2000. I could see 1000 for 6% and 1500 for 9% making much more sense.

Life Mender is the very definition of limiting racial diversity, not expanding it. It's shoehorning Argonian to be nothing but a Healer. I'd take Healing Received over Healing done since Healing done only applies to self heals whereas Healing received applies to both self heals and that done by other players, making it universally more useful.

Argonian was great for everything lol, not just healing. Pvp and tanking especially

Browart wrote: »

Nerfing argonians was the best idea, they were a meta a long long time. So stop crying about that, everyone expect that and knows they will get some nerfs. Now we can say they are balanced compare to other races.

Nerf high elf and redguard to the ground too as they are meta FOREVER

Edit: for spelling mistake

To be quite honest, Argonian utility has been overpowered for quite a while, so I have no problem with these nerfs at all.

My issue with the Argonian changes is, well, the lack of buffs. Argonians have always been great at utility and nothing else; they're among the worst, if not the worst, when it comes to DPS, and now that Argonian utility has been nerfed to some average level, in the end they become the most underperforming of all the races in all roles.

Argonians need some buffs to their damage to counteract their utility nerfs; this will satisfy both parties in that their utility is balanced and their damage is brought to be a bit more on-par with other races. I've posted my idea in the Racial Passives thread, but basically, I proposed that Argonians get +1000 max stamina and also +129 weapon and spell damage for 5 seconds upon receiving any healing. This should bring them a bit more level with the new Dunmer in terms of damage, but ultimately the Dunmer would still be better at damage, and Argonians would still have their utility.

I believe Argonians will do fine,

There is nothing wrong.

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Finally. Thank you.

Cant quite understand how a race getting nerfed is a big help to you lol. Does it just upset you when someone else has something?

Silver_Strider wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I'd prefer Resourceful to give 1000 Magic OR Stamina with the potion passive following suit in restoring 1 resource + Health. So along the lines of this

Resourceful: Increase Max Magic or Stamina by 1000, depending on which is higher. Drinking a potion restores 4000 Health and 4000 Magic or Stamina, depending on which is higher.

As for the Health reduction, it really doesn't make sense that 9% health = 1000, 6% Health = 500 and 12% health = 2000. I could see 1000 for 6% and 1500 for 9% making much more sense.

Life Mender is the very definition of limiting racial diversity, not expanding it. It's shoehorning Argonian to be nothing but a Healer. I'd take Healing Received over Healing done since Healing done only applies to self heals whereas Healing received applies to both self heals and that done by other players, making it universally more useful.

Argonian was great for everything lol, not just healing. Pvp and tanking especially

I'm talking in relation to the suggested changes to Argonians, not their current standings. The suggested changes remove Argonians as BiS Tanks by nerfing our health and sustain as well as removing our Poison status Immunity, which also hurts our PvP performance so we aren't great for "everything" anymore.

Our Damage has always been terrible but made up for with our superior sustain. That is no longer going to be the case but we didn't receive any buff to our damage and the nerfed sustain means our already low damage is getting even lower. These changes are just putting Argonians back into the same spot we were in prior to Morrowind, a meh race with no real purpose.

I can agree with that.

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Argonian has never been a weak race since like 3 years ago. It was a BiS race in PvP and the best healing and tanking race in PvE. It was nerfed because ZoS doesn't know how to buff the rest.

This isn’t entirely true. They got a buff which made other players play them around 2016 but they weren’t bis yet. Because when I played one during Morrowind people still asked me why was I an argonian while the majority of people used high elf or Breton. They really became dominate by the player base in 2018.

Yup, that's right, the buff to argonians in reality was a nerf to the other classes through CP cost reduction stars.

Argonians are going to be over-nerfed imho.

For example, lets compare Argonian & Redguard new sustain passives:

Argonian: Every 45 seconds you get 3.6 stamina, 3.6 magicka & 3.6 health back (every time you drink a potion).
Redguard: Every 5 seconds you get 1K stamina back (it procs on direct dmg which is 99% dmg you deal).

1K stamina back every 5 seconds... just throw a caltrops and you can perma-block...

So this simply makes Redguards bis for both, tanking & stamina DPS :
If Argonians will get 3600 stamina every 45 seconds... redguards will get 9 ticks so 9K stamina. Sure argonains will still get 3600 magicka too, but blocking with Frost Staff is kinda useless.

Also their role as healers is pretty much gone (healing bonus passive got wrecked into oblivion). To add to this, breton (that already was arguably bis at healing) is getting an enormous buff too (3% magicka skill cost reduction -> 7% magicka skill cost reduction).

So basically speaking, with those changes argonain went from being good tank & decent healer to OK-ish tank & useless healer.

With those changes we are left with only 2 "meta" / bis races:
- Redguard for stamina DPS & Tanking
- Breton for Healing & most likely magicka DPS

EDIT:
Part of a problem with Argonian having its sustain is paradoxically NOT the resourceful passive. If you will look closely argonians became part of the meta the he moment Summerset Chapter came out... and what we got with Summerest ? You guessed it - Jewelry Crafting.

Infused jewelry with potion cooldown is exactly the thing that intentionally or not synergised well with argonian pasive & boosted it. If something needs to be looked at it is this combo. This imho should be adresed HEAVILY by the comunity when PTS arraives so we can post our feedback.

Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.

WHY????

You want flexibility and now you got a racial that benefits one role. This was really unnecessary and does not make any sense.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

because they stated in the developer notes that the argonian racials were twice as good as some from other races, hence the nerfs in every aspect to bring them in line with all other races.

if you really belive this then why they buffed altmers and redguards, strongest races for magicka and stamina characters?
even blind one can see these are not ballanced

i could agree with this change when all other racials remains same. but nerf one, ( good only for healers and tank builds, still even with this old passive weakest of all races for dps both stamina and magicka ), and buff another doesnt make sense