New racial ballance - why nerf argonians in everything?

Anyron

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_Gilliam

Could you please look at this? clearly this isnt equal power for racials as magicka character, altmer how it will be is superior to both damage and resource management over argonians and other races. altmer will be choice no1 for every magicka character.
i was there, some time ago, when argonians were weakest of all races for everything and i really dont want it to be true again.
now we at least had best resource management which going to be past

High Elf
Increases Experience gain in Destruction Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Generic Experience gain → No changes
Spellcharge: 9% Magicka Recovery → Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.
Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Syrabane’s Boon: Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Elemental Talent: 4% Fire/Shock/Ice damage → Increases your Spell Damage by 258.

Argonian
Increases experience gain in Resto Staff Skill Line by 15%, extra 50% Swimming Speed → No changes
Resourceful: Gain 3% Max Magicka and restore 4620 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion → Increases your Max Magicka by 1000. Restore 3600 Health, Magicka, and Stamina when you drink a potion.
Argonian Resistance: 9% Max Health and 1485 Poison and Disease Resistance → Increases your Max Health by 1000 and your Disease Resistance by 2310. You are immune to the Diseased status effect.
Quick to Mend: 5% Healing Done and Received → Life Mender: Increases your Healing Done by 4%.

if argonians needs nerfing thats tank role and as posted above, it can be easily solved by splitting resourceful to over-time buff, or it could just restore one stat rather than all 3

ccfeeling

Beside sustain , we get nothing .

And ZOS you huge nerfed our sustain .

Tonturri

Redguard's new passive comes out to 380 regen with the requirement that you deal direct damage. Pretty sure DoTs (and caltrops) don't count.

Not sure if that includes LAs or w/e, but it's gonna require SOME action. A LA requires dropping block, or if it requires a skill that's some previously not-there stamina consumption.

Bosmer get 258 regen which ticks always (as there's no way anyone has the reaction speed required to get exactly 380 regen out of the redguard passive, whereas bosmer ticks on time every time).

258 becomes 310 (rounded) with the major stam regen buff, which stam builds generally always have. 10% more if it's pve and there's a warden (335). It climbs even higher with CP, and then there are likely some other regen buffs I don't want to bother trying to factor in.

Now then. Argonians get EVERY stat. Just because you, in your (let's assume for a moment) bleeding edge meta setup DPS build don't use stamina (or magicka, whatever DPS/tank/who knows setup you're running)...doesn't mean it's suddenly garbage and should be changed because it's not on-par or better than other options in one area and one role in the game.

Do think the healing passive should be split again though and buffed a little - not to previous levels, but I think that was just a tad too harsh. Health could use a super smol bump too if ZOS can find a nice-looking number (as I doubt they'd take 1283 health as a nice number to put into a passive. Oof. Nasty.)

Juhasow

Aedrion wrote: »

Let me do ZoS' work for them and actually balance this race.
Listen up, this is how it's done.

Recourceful: Increases Max Magicka by 750. When you drink a potion, you restore 2500 health, magicka and stamina instantly and 2100 over the next 10 seconds.

Argonian Resistance: Increases maximum health by 1500. Increases Disease Resistance by 2800 and makes you immune to the disease status effect.

Quick to Mend: Increases healing taken by 10%

Now the class' stats are in line with their former +% boosts, the potion effect is still potent but doesn't provide a burst of recources, making it balanced and argonians are still 'quick to mend' which implies THEY heal up quickly, like they do in lore.

Those changes would basically buff argonian tanks compared to what they are on live server. Changing resourceful passive from isnatnt tick for 4,6 to tick for 2,5 and then 2,1k for next 10 seconds is actually a buff because what is strong about argonian is not burst resource gain but overal amount or resources he gains per seconds which can be compared currently to 200 mag+stam+health regen. The thing is sometimes when You use potions You miss in one of the resourcess less to reaching 100% of pool then You'll get from using potion for some portion of resource can be wasted but when You turn it the way You want it'll increase the chance You'll get full 4,6k resources back for each of Your resources instead of getting for example 4,6k magicka , 4k health and 3k stamina because obly Your magicka bar was really drained out. 10% healing recived would basically change nothing in selfhealing which currently one of the things makes argonians very strong in PvP where heals are cut so each healing increase is usefull and by turning 5% healing done and recived to 5% healing recived You basically change nothing in that subject. So at the end You want argonian to end up having other bonuses similar to what they're currently and improved resourceful pasive. Nice try..

stevenyaub16_ESO

Argonians are suppose to be resilient. So why are they the squishiest?

Give them 5% Damage resistance. They have SCALES not soft skin like the other races.

Anyron

i am not sure nerfing argonians will solve invincible tanks in cyro. yes, resourceful gives you acess to great stat recovery but issue is somewhere else. even non-argonian tank can be super good

robpr

Argo tanks are nerfed because it's supposed to be rather Nord role.
And losing 1% healing done is not that big deal. Getting rid of healing received is a bigger nerf.

ComboBreaker88

Yep. They ruined the lizards. What a shame.

Atzepan

I posted this already in the big racial balancing. But htis owuld have been my suggested changes.

The problm with argonians is Resourceful. The Problem is how it interact with speed glyphs which forces it down from a 45 to 30 second cooldown and so actually getting 154 stam/hP/mag every second, which i can see th op value in. But it is also tru that you might not get 4620 resource in all stat so even saying 154 to all resource per second is false. None the less

My Suggestion would be:
Resourceful: Restore 3500/4000 Health, Magicka and Stamina over 10 second and can only trigger every 45 second, while a potion is active.

4000 will give them a lower recovery then then high elf, wood elf, Redguard and orc. But there is no resource burst and no Glyphs boost interaction.


The next things is argonian resistances, argonian are lore wise pretty resiliant they live in black marsh where disease and poison is everywhere, and when they got caught by the ayleids and tortured with heat and cold they could even manage for a while. The thing that annoys me the most is the loss of poison and disease immunity.

Suggestion:
Argonian Resistances: 1000 health and Immunity to Poison and Disease status effect.

Mainly because the argonian needs to to have poison and disease immunty lore wise, would be fait to give up on the ressistances for that.


Last Quick to mend considering that there is health recovery/restore in Resourceful and the immunity in poison and Disease it feels redundant having more self recovery. And as it has been pointed out Argonians don't have Damage passive, which is why i would suggest a new passive just suggesting Guerrilla warfare/Adaptability.
For those reading this you might have noticed i removed 1k Magicka from resourcefull the reason is that the extra resoruce get placed in here with the value of quick to mend.

Guerrilla warfare/Adaptability:
Suggestion A: If 5 pieces of the gear is light: 500/1000 Magicka and 258 spell damage. Medium: 500/1000 stamina and 258 weapon damage. If heavy 500/1000 HP and 3960 Phys and Spell Resistance

Suggestion B: Every light piece give: 150 Mag and 37 spell damage. Every Medium piece: 150 Stamina and 37 Weapon Damage. Every Heavy piece gives 150 HP and 570 Phys and spell Resistance.


The main issue is that there isn't any DD passives with argonians and even mag they never really make it into top 3.
With this Argonian are a bit behind max magicka compared to high elf and a bit in sustain.
Argonian are are behind max stam and stam recovery compared to Bosmer but infront with Weapon damage.
Argonian would be a bit infront of the orc in stam but behind orc Health and stam recovery.
Argonian would be behind in max stam, but infront with weapon damage and be be i higher margin behind in stam recovery
Argonian would be behind in max resoruce, bus infront on recovery compared to Dunmer.

Xvorg

Please stop giving sugestion without testing what is coming

Schattenfluegel

Dots dont Count on the RG Passiva. I guess, that the Weaponskills Count - Endless Hail, Bowulti, Daggers...

JobooAGS

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Redguard's new passive comes out to 380 regen with the requirement that you deal direct damage. Pretty sure DoTs (and caltrops) don't count.

Not sure if that includes LAs or w/e, but it's gonna require SOME action. A LA requires dropping block, or if it requires a skill that's some previously not-there stamina consumption.

Bosmer get 258 regen which ticks always (as there's no way anyone has the reaction speed required to get exactly 380 regen out of the redguard passive, whereas bosmer ticks on time every time).

258 becomes 310 (rounded) with the major stam regen buff, which stam builds generally always have. 10% more if it's pve and there's a warden (335). It climbs even higher with CP, and then there are likely some other regen buffs I don't want to bother trying to factor in.

Now then. Argonians get EVERY stat. Just because you, in your (let's assume for a moment) bleeding edge meta setup DPS build don't use stamina (or magicka, whatever DPS/tank/who knows setup you're running)...doesn't mean it's suddenly garbage and should be changed because it's not on-par or better than other options in one area and one role in the game.

Do think the healing passive should be split again though and buffed a little - not to previous levels, but I think that was just a tad too harsh. Health could use a super smol bump too if ZOS can find a nice-looking number (as I doubt they'd take 1283 health as a nice number to put into a passive. Oof. Nasty.)

The Redguardpassive works with Weaponskills, not direct Dmg.

Partically correct. Martial knowledge works with weapon skills only, adreniline rush for any direct dmg

Schattenfluegel

JobooAGS wrote: »

Partically correct. Martial knowledge works with weapon skills only, adreniline rush for any direct dmg

Yeah, ive throwed the two together.