Yeah >..> I told them that for Breton like Spell Resistance since it's not bad. It's still there, but not as much and some new things to work with now.
It is nice to see a(n unnoffical) commonity ambassador commenting my thread Unfortunately I didn't quite understood what you were trying to say with this.
rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Though I was expecting some kind of buff to our damage, I think the changes, overall, are a great improvement.
BUT we have to consider this changes in relation to the rest of races, specially the buff to the Spell Resistance of Nords. That Nords getting 70% more SR than Bretons is a total nonsense, an oddity from the perspective of lore and racial profiles of every Elder Scrolls games.
That said... May be we should be discussing if the improvement in SR to Nords is way too much.
I think its because nords are overall oriented towards bulkyness and tanking, bretons have also dps passives tied to them, having both would be kinda crazy
Bretons do not have dps passive. They have max magicka that does give them some damage becouse of calculations work but they are made as dps. That is like saying argonians have dps passive. In previous games Breton identity has been a magical wall that tanks spells but not physical attacks and uses magic themselves.
2k max mag = 190.47 spell damage. It's no apprentice stone, but you also use it as a resource pool for casting. 7% cost and 100 mag regen just means MAYBE you drop a sustain set or enchants for dmg oriented ones.
rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Though I was expecting some kind of buff to our damage, I think the changes, overall, are a great improvement.
BUT we have to consider this changes in relation to the rest of races, specially the buff to the Spell Resistance of Nords. That Nords getting 70% more SR than Bretons is a total nonsense, an oddity from the perspective of lore and racial profiles of every Elder Scrolls games.
That said... May be we should be discussing if the improvement in SR to Nords is way too much.
I think its because nords are overall oriented towards bulkyness and tanking, bretons have also dps passives tied to them, having both would be kinda crazy
Bretons do not have dps passive. They have max magicka that does give them some damage becouse of calculations work but they are made as dps. That is like saying argonians have dps passive. In previous games Breton identity has been a magical wall that tanks spells but not physical attacks and uses magic themselves.
2k max mag = 190.47 spell damage. It's no apprentice stone, but you also use it as a resource pool for casting. 7% cost and 100 mag regen just means MAYBE you drop a sustain set or enchants for dmg oriented ones.
and Nords have 1500 max stamina which coverts into weapon damage. That doesnt make them a DPS race.
rafaelcsmaia wrote: »Though I was expecting some kind of buff to our damage, I think the changes, overall, are a great improvement.
BUT we have to consider this changes in relation to the rest of races, specially the buff to the Spell Resistance of Nords. That Nords getting 70% more SR than Bretons is a total nonsense, an oddity from the perspective of lore and racial profiles of every Elder Scrolls games.
That said... May be we should be discussing if the improvement in SR to Nords is way too much.
I think its because nords are overall oriented towards bulkyness and tanking, bretons have also dps passives tied to them, having both would be kinda crazy
Bretons do not have dps passive. They have max magicka that does give them some damage becouse of calculations work but they are made as dps. That is like saying argonians have dps passive. In previous games Breton identity has been a magical wall that tanks spells but not physical attacks and uses magic themselves.
2k max mag = 190.47 spell damage. It's no apprentice stone, but you also use it as a resource pool for casting. 7% cost and 100 mag regen just means MAYBE you drop a sustain set or enchants for dmg oriented ones.
and Nords have 1500 max stamina which coverts into weapon damage. That doesnt make them a DPS race.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »The extra sustain sounds great. Breton needed that buff to be at all competitive with the new Altmer (which got a sustain and damage buff). Especially since Altmer damage bonus now applies to Magic damage in addition to Elemental (magic damage builds on Templar and Nightblade were Breton’s best niche for DPS). It does seem like tanky Breton builds are taking a hit, but it looks like Nord is in a good position to take over that role with their 3960 Physical and Spell Resistance.
It seems like the new role of Breton is to be a sustain class, like the Magicka equivalent to Redguard. That 7% Magicka cost reduction is nearly as good as the Seducer 5pc set bonus (similar to how the Altmer 258 Spell damage is nearly as good as the Julianos 5pc bonus). I’m definitely onboard with this, and the loss in defense won’t be particularly crippling for PvE DPS and healer builds. For PvE you’ll likely be dying most frequently to stamina builds, which aren’t prevented by Spell Resistance anyway.
Considering all this I would say that Bretons in ESO have always been a race implicitly oriented to healing and that wouldn't fundamentally change with the new passives. Yes, we can use the better sustain to improve our damage output with certain tweaks... Only that Altmer is still BiS MagDPS, now more than ever, and in the process we are unnecessary losing one of the defining characteristics of the race.
PS: Unnecessary because no one can seriously think Bretons are even near to become an overpowered race and when the changes were announced we were promised versatility. Keep waiting.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »Yeah >..> I told them that for Breton like Spell Resistance since it's not bad. It's still there, but not as much and some new things to work with now.
It is nice to see a(n unnoffical) commonity ambassador commenting my thread Unfortunately I didn't quite understood what you were trying to say with this.
It was a give and take change. They still have some tankiness but they also got incredible sustain now.
The goal was give a unique feel but not outclass others.
We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.
I've seen that the Redguard 8% weapon skill reduction works for weapon ults too, so my guess is that it applies to blocking.
Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.
Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
Breton got seducer
Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
etc.
Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.
When we’re balancing numerical bonuses, this is our general procedure with the values you see. The system works by looking at the total power a bonus provides and comparing it to a bonus from a 2-4 item set. For example, if we have 2000 Stamina, we would compare that to a 2 piece value of Stamina, which is 1096. The final result would be 2000/1096 = 1.82 set bonus efficiency. We did this for each bonus a race provides so they would all be roughly equal in the power they provide.
We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure.
We won't know how the Redguard passive behaves until we get it on pts, but I really don't think they would intend RG to have cheaper weapon ultimates. That doesn't sound very balanced at all.
We just got a free seducer set passive, I'm not going to complain given how bad sorc sustain is.
Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.
Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
Breton got seducer
Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
etc.
Yeah >..> I told them that for Breton like Spell Resistance since it's not bad. It's still there, but not as much and some new things to work with now.
Lord_Dexter wrote: »
What does other Breton players think about this?
Breton
Increases Experience gain in Light Armor Skill Line by 15%, extra 1% Alliance Point gain → No changes
Gift of Magnus: 10% Max Magicka → Increases your Max Magicka by 2000.
Spell Resistance: 3960 Spell Resistance → Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
Magicka Mastery: 3% Magicka Cost Reduction → Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%.
My opinion is what had been stated in the forums many times: Bretons are pretty good but Magicka Mastery needs a buff. They finally got it, but they also got a nerf to their spell resistance. What is new is they also got +100 magicka recovery, but sustain really hasn't been that big issue with Bretons and with +4% increase to cost reduction it wouldn't be issue in the new patch either. So what is the point of chaning the 2nd passive?
I think the original 3960 spell resistance (the same that nords get) would be more useful than 2310 spell resistance and 100 magicka recovery (also previously Bretons have been known as "magic walls" able to absorb hostile spells to gain magicka(Make them recover magicka by taking spell damage?)). The spell resistance also helps to mitigate spell damage both in PvP and PvE situation, especially when wearing light armor. The old passive can save your life from that final killing blow, while the new recovery is just extra sustain on the top of your already good sustain.
Overall I am happy and wont complain too much even if this went live as it is but I'd hope ZOS reverted the changes on 2nd passive.
EDIT:
One interesting idea that came to my mind would be changing the 2nd passive from:
Gain 2310 Spell Resistance and 100 Magicka Recovery.
to
Gain 3960 Spell Resisatnce. When you take Spell damage you restore 320 magicka. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
That way Breton can keep their old tankines and gain some extra sustain that ZOS intended to give them, as well as make them more akin with what they used to be in previous games, giving them their racial identity.
Lord_Dexter wrote: »
Exactly, Altmer got a shaved down bloodthorn and damage like kags set. Breton has seducer cost reduction, regen, and some spell resistance.
Altmer will perform better when constantly on the offense.
Breton will perform better when you can't stay on the offense, like when you're being chased by six people or more.
My Cyrodiil experience is nearly always the latter. So Breton it is.
Temeraire507 wrote: »
I've seen that the Redguard 8% weapon skill reduction works for weapon ults too, so my guess is that it applies to blocking.
When I tested the effect of reduction passives (e.g. from armor and I believe actually from breton as well, but I can't remember) it seemed to work. But this requires testing on monday.Interesting way to look at the changes and measure their effectiveness and standing. Each race got cut down versions of a 5 piece set bonus.
Altmer got Boodthorn and Julianos
Breton got seducer
Nord got Werewolf hide, fortified brass
etc.
You might want to look at this quote from the announcement article:Equalize the overall power that each race provides by using our set bonus efficiency system, which compares the total amount of power that a bonus provides under equal terms.
When we’re balancing numerical bonuses, this is our general procedure with the values you see. The system works by looking at the total power a bonus provides and comparing it to a bonus from a 2-4 item set. For example, if we have 2000 Stamina, we would compare that to a 2 piece value of Stamina, which is 1096. The final result would be 2000/1096 = 1.82 set bonus efficiency. We did this for each bonus a race provides so they would all be roughly equal in the power they provide.
We decided to find a healthy standard for total racial power provided and used that budget (roughly 6.5 set bonuses) for the power that each passive would grant. We used the previous version of Redguard and Altmer as our target goal. Note that some of our hybrid races will be a slightly higher value, since their power is divided. Most of the races received buffs to reach this figure.
Your guess is very likely to be exactly what was done