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So now that classchanges finally are kinda a big topic...

Avrael
Avrael
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I too will make another thread (next to my 200 others i already did on this topic) in favor of classchanges. Im asking for this since i bought the game.

And hold your arguments. If your argument doesnt involve an important reason why it would HURT you specifically if other players would be able to change their class, its not valid for me and shouldnt be valid for anyone. Also, specifically the argument of "Then you just could change to the most op class all the time.", as long as ZOS ALWAYS makes the last class they release the most op, this isnt valid either. Its not because of us you could change to a better class with classchanges, its because the lack of balancing all classes and ZOS taking important features from old classes and giving it to new classes just to sell them better. ZOS is already doing everything in their power to make us play that new class, its more unfair for us to NOT play it then to change to it because its op.

I also will write my personal backstory on why i want classchanges here (again...):
I have all quests, locations, craftings, recipies, a lot of crafting styles that were VERY EXPENSIVE, a lot of books read, inventory space, mount upgrades, achivements and most importantly hours of my life and a connection with my character, on my main. If i would make a new character for Necromancer, i would probably never even look at my main again, gameplay wise. It would just sit there, might as well have been deleted, while i would have to do EVERYTHING again on that new class, because im a completionist that wants things done on his main, which i wont do, because its just too much and too expensive.

I really hope if a lot of people that really want classchanges TELL the devs about it, its much more likely to happen. Now that another new class comes AND we already have racechanges, genderchanges, namechanges, vampire/werewolf changes, its not an excuse anymore to not have classchanges. If you can pump out a new DLC every 4 weeks but are too lazy/not able to implement classchanges, you need to get your priorities straight.

But now to the only reason i could understand why they dont implement it: Becuause they really phisically cant.
The engine is from the ground up so unbelievably broken, that i would not be suprised if they cant implement something like this without stripping the entire game first or something. Its not as bad as Skyrims/Fallouts engine, but its pretty bad.
So heres a thing i dont know if it would work, but maybe it could: When changing your class, make the character essentially completley new, so you would have to play the game again, level again because as many people say that are against classchanges, that alone would be really not hard, level up skills again, because somehow i believe that would be the most difficult thing to keep while changing classes, but KEEP things like name, achivements, crafting styles, books, mount upgrades, etc.
That would be more then enough of a classchange for me. I would gladly do everything again thats not basically impossible for being able to change my class. I can do every quest and location again, but i cant do every achivement, crafting style etc. again... its just too expensive or costs too much time.

Another thing would be making achivements and crafting styles accountwide, but i already made a lot of threads about that topic too, and people seem to think that would be even harder for them to implement. I have no idea, im no programmer, i cant say anything to that. But classchanges and this would be essentially the same thing, making achivements accountwide would in my eyes be even better, because you could have a lot of classes at the same time and kinda treat them all as your main. I would be very happy with either of those solutions, and really hope one of those will come, and really THINK one of those SHOULD come.
"I mustache you a question."
"Well shave it for later."
  • Turelus
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    As much as I know people want this and they will keep asking, it was clearly stated last night on the stream (by Rich) it's not happening. There will not be class change tokens for ESO planned at this time.

    He said it was complicated (not sure if he meant technical issues with this) and that it's not something ZOS sees for ESO.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Avrael
    Avrael
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    @Turelus Could you link me that stream, maybe with a timestamp? I would be absolutley devestated by now... but they also just lie a lot. Expansions will never be treated as DLCs? Dragons will never come to Eso because it doesnt fit with the story? Luckily for us, we cant give anything on what theyre officially saying anymore. We can still hope and let them know we want this, and if it really is impossible to implement classchanges, make achivements accountwide, or at least let us change achivements and other things from one char to another. SOMETHING has to be done...
    "I mustache you a question."
    "Well shave it for later."
  • Turelus
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    Link at bottom of this post.
    I can't time stamp for you, but it's somewhere in the second half of the stream in the Q&A (when five people are sat around the table)

    I agree ZOS does go back on what they say and I think that's why Rich didn't outright say "Never happening" but the way he answered seems like it's not something they're even considering right now. You may get one in three years, but I wouldn't plan around it happening any time soon, especially for the next update.

    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Avrael
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    Ok thanks. And as i said, with enough people mentioning this topic, they maybe will consider it faster then we think. Outcry is always a thing that makes developers wet themselves, as we already see with the Necromancer class, dragons AND Elsweyr. Probably none of those things would have happened if not for players who want those things and told them about it, and now all of them come in a single big update. Not even to start on other games who completley turned their games 180 because of outcry... not that that worked most of the time, just to show how important this is to devs. And im not talking about us players or anything, but our money. Thats just very important to them. :'D
    "I mustache you a question."
    "Well shave it for later."
  • richo262
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    My enthusiasm for this chapter or any further chapters that contain new classes is and will be low if I can't change my class.

    I can turn my nord into a lizard, but I cant send my nord off to retrain.
    Edited by richo262 on January 16, 2019 10:02AM
  • Medakon
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    They should add mastery class progression.

    Start with a dragonknight and reach level 50, get the option to reset your level 1 one and unlock a new class spec like Nightblade. However, Dragonknight and Nightblade cannot be active at once, and you have ONE single class point that you either put in nightblade, or dragonknight to unlock the tree. Simple.
    Medakon - Legendary Super Hero Professional Assassin Nightblade from Tamriel who do different stuff B)
  • FearlessOne_2014
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    I'd personally like ESO to have class change option. As much as ZOS completely destroy playstyles time to time. I feel like it's needed in this game.
    Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on January 16, 2019 10:12AM
  • Ajaxandriel
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    but KEEP things like name, achivements, crafting styles, books, mount upgrades, etc.

    I’m an altaholic so when I had to reclass my Wood elf from sorc to warden, I just though a bit (a lot) and I eventually decided to create again Angelith, copy-pasting her model features (thanks to a never used reskin token to get her settings) as a new warden character, and buying a race+name change for the sorceress who became the khajiit Tahajmi, for instance.
    That was not ideal since I could not play Reaper’s March storyline with the khajiit since "she" already did it as a "former" Wood elf in the game mechanics...

    So when this issue comes for people who enjoy *one character to play* and no other ones, then yes the class change should be a thing and I totally support your point.

    Story-wise and RPG-wise a reclass would make sense - far more than race change to begin with!...

    Sadly ESO is not the only mmorpg that didn’t implement this, WoW is the same and SWTOR too iirc
    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50 ;
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50 ;
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50 ;
    Antarius Scorpio - impérial chevalier-dragon 50 ;
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50 ;
    Azothos Sadras - elfe noir sorcier 50 ;
    Celestras - haut-elfe sorcier 50 ;
    Diluviatar - elfe des mers sorcier 50 ;
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50 ;
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50 ;
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50 ;
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50 ;
    Selvaryn Virotès - elfe noire lame noire 50 ;
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50 ;
    Telernil - haut-elfe templier 50 ;
    Zadzadak - gobelin nécromancien 50 ;
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
  • rafaelcsmaia
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    Turelus wrote: »
    As much as I know people want this and they will keep asking, it was clearly stated last night on the stream (by Rich) it's not happening. There will not be class change tokens for ESO planned at this time.

    He said it was complicated (not sure if he meant technical issues with this) and that it's not something ZOS sees for ESO.

    I understand its their call, but i really dont buy this "It's complicated". We already have werewolf and vampire as interchangeable skill lines, having the classes just like that would be a matter of implementing an already existing system into them.
  • Ackadian
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    I like how Rich said "We do not have plans for any clas changes in the future right now" on stream and people take that as a "So they are definitely doing class changes".... Smh
  • Goratesque
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    Ackadian wrote: »
    I like how Rich said "We do not have plans for any clas changes in the future right now" on stream and people take that as a "So they are definitely doing class changes".... Smh
    It was the same story with dragons 7 years ago.
    My Guilds:
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    My Characters:
    Daggerfall Covenant
    [^]Master Arctus | DD - Magicka Nightblade (Breton, Battlemage of the Empire)
    Khaled al-Bergama | Tank - Health Dragonknight (Redguard, Forebear)
    Brother Marcel | Healer - Magicka Templar (Breton, Monk)
    Lucius Detritus | Tank - Health Necromancer (Imperial, Colovian)
    Sir Armand Dubois | Tank - Health Templar (Breton, Knight)
    Akhenatosh | DD - Stamina Templar (Imperial, Nibenese)
    Shrek Xl | Tank - Health Arcanist (Orc, Swamp Ogre)
    Selena Tharn | DD - Magicka Necromancer (Breton, Vampire)

    Ebonheart Pact
    Goras Dagoth | DD - Magicka Dragonknight (Dunmer, Sixth House)
    Ada'Soom Dir-Kamal | Tank - Health Warden (Nord, Undead Kamal)
    Never-Gives-Up | Tank - Health Nightblade (Argonian, Shadowscale)
    Uruk gro-Mauloch | Tank - Health Dragonknight (Mountain Orc of Skyrim)
    Freydis Iron-Shield | Tank - Health Sorcerer (Nord, Champion)
    *Kelvedkaal | DD - Stamina Arcanist (Nord, Dragon Priest)

    Aldmeri Dominion
    Robin of Valenwood | DD - Stamina Nightblade (Imperial, Strident)
    Tihullu | Healer - Stamina Warden (Bosmer, Druid)
    *Rilis Xll of Firsthold | DD - Stamina Sorcerer (Altmer, Lich High Kinlord)
    Dark Kinlord Sauron | DD - Stamina Sorcerer (Dunmer, Xivkyn Dreadguard)
    Prince Taka | DD - Hybrid Templar (Khajiit, Two-Moons Warrior Priest)

    [^]This is my Main character overall.
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  • Ratzkifal
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    Well, from what I've gathered, it seems to be a technical issue. Because it's not easy to convert the experience gained with one class to another.
    Perhaps that's because all classes are actually one and the same with different access to skill lines. Or something like that.

    Dear ZOS, I would even be happy with a sub-optimal solution like needing to level the skill lines from 0. At least I'd be able to keep my achievements, crafting skill, skyshards and lorebooks.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • Turelus
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    Turelus wrote: »
    As much as I know people want this and they will keep asking, it was clearly stated last night on the stream (by Rich) it's not happening. There will not be class change tokens for ESO planned at this time.

    He said it was complicated (not sure if he meant technical issues with this) and that it's not something ZOS sees for ESO.

    I understand its their call, but i really dont buy this "It's complicated". We already have werewolf and vampire as interchangeable skill lines, having the classes just like that would be a matter of implementing an already existing system into them.
    I think class changes are much more complex than just the switching of the skill lines though. As I said I don't know if his comment on it being complicated was from a technical point or view or meaning the discussion was complicated.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • White wabbit
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    It's not something that's really needed to improve the game , apart from making people lazy that is
  • shaielzafine
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    Avrael wrote: »
    @Turelus Could you link me that stream, maybe with a timestamp? I would be absolutley devestated by now... but they also just lie a lot. Expansions will never be treated as DLCs? Dragons will never come to Eso because it doesnt fit with the story? Luckily for us, we cant give anything on what theyre officially saying anymore. We can still hope and let them know we want this, and if it really is impossible to implement classchanges, make achivements accountwide, or at least let us change achivements and other things from one char to another. SOMETHING has to be done...

    To be fair, you do have a point.
  • BaylorCorvette
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    It is not happening as has been pointed out and confirmed on stream.
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  • Abeille
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    It is asinine that we have race change without any new races since release, but we now are going to have two new classes since release and still no class change.

    The only explanation is spaghetti code. I has to be.
    It's not something that's really needed to improve the game , apart from making people lazy that is

    Race changes do the same if you are going by the argument that people should just level a new character up, and still, we have those.
    Edited by Abeille on January 16, 2019 3:40PM
    Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.

    Meet my characters:
    Command: Do the thing.

    Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
    Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
    Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
    Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
    Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
    Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
    Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
    Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
    Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
    Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.
  • White wabbit
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    Abeille wrote: »
    It is asinine that we have race change without any new races since release, but we now are going to have two new classes since release and still no class change.

    The only explanation is spaghetti code. I has to be.
    It's not something that's really needed to improve the game , apart from making people lazy that is

    Race changes do the same if you are going by the argument that people should just level a new character up, and still, we have those.

    Yep your right get rid of race change as well
  • Avrael
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    I have to agree on that. Either both Classchange and Racechange, or none of them. But only having the one that makes much less sense then the other is just...
    "I mustache you a question."
    "Well shave it for later."
  • Sirona_Starr
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    How can the code accommodate race change but can't accommodate class change? That makes no sense!!!! Race change = racial passive switch, class change would be the same, wouldn't it? I'm all in for class change, much more than race change. Let's keep this topic going. If you are going to change the race passives, which impacts class, then please offer CLASS changes :)
  • PeaBrainCarl
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    richo262 wrote: »
    I can turn my nord into a lizard, but I cant send my nord off to retrain.
    Story-wise and RPG-wise a reclass would make sense - far more than race change to begin with!...
    This is true. From a realistic standpoint, it makes more sense to be able to change your class rather than your race. From a game design standpoint, it's the opposite though. Your class is the "core" of your character and the race you choose augments that core, usually in the way of stats.
    Turelus wrote: »
    (Words)
    I understand its their call, but i really dont buy this "It's complicated". We already have werewolf and vampire as interchangeable skill lines, having the classes just like that would be a matter of implementing an already existing system into them.
    This depends heavily on how they coded characters in the game to begin with. If everything is based off of your class in terms of coding, it could be nearly impossible to actually allow for someone to change classes. I think it's unlikely that it was coded in a way that would be this extreme, but it's still likely going to be a nightmare to code a system that makes this process smooth.

    Imagine it this way: Your class, and everything that goes along with it, make up your physical person; your body. The different classes have different bodies, but are still somewhat similar. They decide to add new skill lines such as werewolves and vampires. They can take each of these different bodies and allow them to put on different colored shoes. Blue for werewolf or red for vampire. Fairly easy as they just needed to make the shoes fit on their feet. It's adding to what is already there. You can change shoes because they can simply disable and re-enable a skill line that functions like shoes. Those shoes are always there to be put back on, fitting just as they did before; without the loss of skill progression. Changing a class is like altering your body. It's asking for your arm or leg to be amputated and another one to replace it. It's not so simple because it's the core of your character being altered. It's not just dealing with shoes.
    I'd personally like ESO to have class change option. As much as ZOS completely destroy play styles time to time. I feel like it's needed in this game.
    This is a fair point. I tend to be the type of player to have one, or very few, character(s) and when a major change, which can often look minor from the outside, happens, it can take away the main reason I played that character. This isn't as big of a deal in some games, but in an MMO where you put hundreds(thousands) of hours into a single character, not being able to change to your next preferred option after your preferred way of playing was destroyed is terrible. I think this is just something that goes beyond the game and goes into how we identify with things as people. There are many things that make us not want to create a new character if we put a lot of time into the one we currently have. Things that go into our character's identity range from the character's name and appearance to the achievements of that character, both our own personal achievements and the ones the game offers, to the race and class of a character. There's history there. All of those things come together in different ways for different people, and it's hard to simply tell someone to make a new character because they don't like how the one they've been playing for years now plays because of changes that happened outside of their control.

    I am someone who makes a character with the idea that that character's class is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, part of that character's identity, so for me, changing classes is somewhat unthinkable, but I also understand that other people identify differently as to what makes their character their character to them. I'm not against the idea of a character being able to change classes, but I think it needs to be implemented in a similar way someone becomes a werewolf or vampire. Some form of quest that replaces your class abilities with unleveled skill lines of the new class you picked while retaining every other aspect of that character. Whether or not it's a quest you have to "unlock" by purchasing it is another topic. Also, as I mentioned already, it seems the coding issue is what needs to be solved more than any other.
    Edited by PeaBrainCarl on January 17, 2019 11:47PM
  • Jolipinator
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    Rich said no. Move on.
    PS5 EU.
  • Tandor
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    This isn't a big topic now, it's a dead one. Class change isn't going to happen, we've been told that, and trying to enhance the support for it in yet another thread by telling people who disagree with it that they shouldn't post their views if they don't meet a set criteria isn't going to make anyone take any more notice of it. It doesn't matter one jot whether I think it will hurt me specifically or not, I think it will be bad for the game and that's a lot more important.
  • stimpy986b14_ESO
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    IMO the class system needs to be done away with entirely and the skill lines separated
  • Ri_Khan
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    Tandor wrote: »
    ...I think it will be bad for the game...

    Seriously? How? Why?
  • Mr_Walker
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    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Well, from what I've gathered, it seems to be a technical issue. Because it's not easy to convert the experience gained with one class to another.
    Perhaps that's because all classes are actually one and the same with different access to skill lines. Or something like that.

    Dear ZOS, I would even be happy with a sub-optimal solution like needing to level the skill lines from 0. At least I'd be able to keep my achievements, crafting skill, skyshards and lorebooks.

    That would be a compromise, and could be considered part of the "cost" of changing class. Plus, you don't just change professions and instantly become fantastic at another, so makes "logical" sense as well.
  • MakeMeUhSamich
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    Mr_Walker wrote: »
    Ratzkifal wrote: »
    Well, from what I've gathered, it seems to be a technical issue. Because it's not easy to convert the experience gained with one class to another.
    Perhaps that's because all classes are actually one and the same with different access to skill lines. Or something like that.

    Dear ZOS, I would even be happy with a sub-optimal solution like needing to level the skill lines from 0. At least I'd be able to keep my achievements, crafting skill, skyshards and lorebooks.

    That would be a compromise, and could be considered part of the "cost" of changing class. Plus, you don't just change professions and instantly become fantastic at another, so makes "logical" sense as well.

    Totally agree.
  • Sylvermynx
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    A class change equals a RL profession change. Many people (IRL) have been trying to handle that lately. It's - not easy. Sometimes it requires years of college classes - and depending on one's ability to deal with instruction, it can be.... a real balls-up. The older one is, the less flexible sometimes. So learning a new trade is for many, not easy. And certainly not optimal.

    Case in point from RL (mine....) In 2000, I got a letter from SSA, telling me I needed another 4 years (16 quarters) of work to fully fund my own SS payment when I reached 65. I hadn't worked for 20 years at that point....

    But, I had (because I was fascinated....) been messing with computers and software for a decade. So, I produced a resume keying on my abilities to: use nearly any software with a short lead-time (absolutely true); troubleshoot software issues if needed (mostly true); and troubleshoot machine hardware issues (absolutely true since I had been building my own machines since 1996 at that point).

    I got a good job (pay wise, though the.... working conditions.... needed a lot of help....) A couple of years later, I asked for a minimal raise (to cover the uptick in diesel fuel - driving an 80 mile round trip.... not only time, but fuel is involved). Not going into the stuff that happened, not germane to this thread. Within two weeks I had a new job at a much higher rate of pay (not to mention a higher rate of boss aggro - *sigh*)

    There was a huge learning curve on that new job. The first job was all bookkeeping and office management which I'd done all my life. The new job.... I was dealing with a trucking company's fuel desk - I had to grab the fuel prices across the US, and send drivers the info so they knew where they were authorized to buy. And this was in 2002 - quite a while before stuff like fuel prices in Nova Scotia were instantaneous.... And at the end of each week, I had to approve the expenses for 400 drivers before payroll cut their checks. AND it was "hit the ground running" - I spent the first two weeks before cutting checks (which I also somehow wound up handling) up all night every night running scenarios in my mind so that if something happened I'd hopefully have a clue....

    So the point is - you have to learn the ropes. Especially if (as in my case) you've never dealt with the trucking industry before - and you also have to make sure that the drivers BELIEVE you when you say "do NOT EVEN buy fuel anywhere but where I tell you!". Oh yeah.... I made that stick. I was the "alpha female".... It's one of those things: you have to believe it yourself - and if you do.... THEY believe it too.

    Bottom line: many people whether young or old (me....) have to change professions. It's not easy. Class changes are like RL profession changes. If you want to change a class.... it should take a lot of work and a lot of angst... and a lot of time. It shouldn't be handled by a "class change token" no matter how expensive - because of course anyone who's played this game for even a year can afford whatever ZOS decided it costs.

    Yeah, that's a personal opinion slant. ZOS of course will do whatever they think is the right thing.
  • Tandor
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    Ri_Khan wrote: »
    Tandor wrote: »
    ...I think it will be bad for the game...

    Seriously? How? Why?

    For all manner of reasons, mostly long discussed in other topics, but including because the game becomes unbalanced with everyone running around as the same class, until the next update when the FOTM class will change because the developers will have an incentive to nerf a few classes so as to see some more class change tokens - or so the argument will be made, thereby raising more claims of money-grabbing, cash raids because the game's dying etc. The developers should be balancing the game themselves, not selling Crown Store tokens to allow the players to get around balancing issues.

    Games are better when the players have to think more about the decisions they're taking rather than jumping into things regardless because they can always use the Crown Store to correct their mistakes. No game was ever improved by being dumbed down, and being able to change your character's class on a whim is dumbing down. I take the same view about other changes like race and alliance etc but class change is the big one and has the most impact on a game. The developers know that, and are wise in my view to resist it - quite apart from the complexity of such a change that would take away scarce development resources from other higher priority issues which would in itself would be bad for the game.
  • Avrael
    Avrael
    ✭✭✭✭
    @Sylvermynx Im sorry, but i have to say a classchange in a game is nothing like a profession change irl. Not only is that possible for people yet impossible in this game, but if they reset the skill lines and points and make us level everything up again, that IS work for us to change the class.
    "I mustache you a question."
    "Well shave it for later."
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