Is this the first time?

Casdha · January 2019

I'm wondering if I missed something but I'm pretty sure this is the first time that the Main Story happens in a Group PVE area. Craglorn doesn't count in my book as it was more or less a side story (not that I've seen it to know for sure).

I don't know why they would waist the talent of Alfred Molina on a part of the game that no one will want to sit around and listen to and enjoy.

Did I mention the fact that I hate that they placed such a crucial part of the story in a Group Dungeon area.

I guess when they said The Dragons release will be all your fault doesn't include me as I don't play Group Dungeon zones for this very reason. I guess I can take solace in the fact that I will have nothing to do with Harming Elsweyr.

MLGProPlayer · January 2019

Hopefully the dungeons don't have any explicit group mechanics so we can run them solo for the story.

Linaleah · January 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hopefully the dungeons don't have any explicit group mechanics so we can run them solo for the story.

unless they have the difficulty of vanilla starter dungeons... I won't be able to group or no group mechanics. and there are people who can't solo fungal grotto 1 either.

I really REALLY wish ZoS would just introduce actual solo version of the dungeons, make it not drop any gear for all I care. just something for any and all players of any and all skill level to be able to go in and do the quest without having to rush through the npc conversations and to have a chance to turn in their quest before the rest of the group bails and you are kicked out of a dungeon.

ZonasArch · January 2019

Linaleah wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hopefully the dungeons don't have any explicit group mechanics so we can run them solo for the story.

unless they have the difficulty of vanilla starter dungeons... I won't be able to group or no group mechanics. and there are people who can't solo fungal grotto 1 either.

I really REALLY wish ZoS would just introduce actual solo version of the dungeons, make it not drop any gear for all I care. just something for any and all players of any and all skill level to be able to go in and do the quest without having to rush through the npc conversations and to have a chance to turn in their quest before the rest of the group bails and you are kicked out of a dungeon.

That would be so great...

SaintSubwayy · January 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hopefully the dungeons don't have any explicit group mechanics so we can run them solo for the story.

If I recall Correctly, Rich mentioned them to be pretty Special (an not easy ).

Well as long as they dont release another SCP or FL fromt he difficulty lvl of HM, then it should be Fine.
Else there will just be more crying for nerfs ect. like there was for SCP, FL , MHK and MOS

MLGProPlayer · January 2019

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Hopefully the dungeons don't have any explicit group mechanics so we can run them solo for the story.

If I recall Correctly, Rich mentioned them to be pretty Special (an not easy ).

Well as long as they dont release another SCP or FL fromt he difficulty lvl of HM, then it should be Fine.
Else there will just be more crying for nerfs ect. like there was for SCP, FL , MHK and MOS

I like hard dungeons, but I don't want them to feature story content. It's a complete waste of developer resources as nobody will listen to the dialogue.

Beardimus · January 2019

Casdha wrote: »

I'm wondering if I missed something but I'm pretty sure this is the first time that the Main Story happens in a Group PVE area. Craglorn doesn't count in my book as it was more or less a side story (not that I've seen it to know for sure).

I don't know why they would waist the talent of Alfred Molina on a part of the game that no one will want to sit around and listen to and enjoy.

Did I mention the fact that I hate that they placed such a crucial part of the story in a Group Dungeon area.

I guess when they said The Dragons release will be all your fault doesn't include me as I don't play Group Dungeon zones for this very reason. I guess I can take solace in the fact that I will have nothing to do with Harming Elsweyr.

You make a good point. Story line needs to be enjoyed at ones individual pace

Chirru · January 2019

Casdha wrote: »

I'm wondering if I missed something but I'm pretty sure this is the first time that the Main Story happens in a Group PVE area. Craglorn doesn't count in my book as it was more or less a side story (not that I've seen it to know for sure).

I don't know why they would waist the talent of Alfred Molina on a part of the game that no one will want to sit around and listen to and enjoy.

Did I mention the fact that I hate that they placed such a crucial part of the story in a Group Dungeon area.

I guess when they said The Dragons release will be all your fault doesn't include me as I don't play Group Dungeon zones for this very reason. I guess I can take solace in the fact that I will have nothing to do with Harming Elsweyr.

Hehe... I agree totally. I will never ever see a Dragon...from close up....

Casdha · January 2019

Linaleah wrote: »

I really REALLY wish ZoS would just introduce actual solo version of the dungeons, make it not drop any gear for all I care. just something for any and all players of any and all skill level to be able to go in and do the quest without having to rush through the npc conversations and to have a chance to turn in their quest before the rest of the group bails and you are kicked out of a dungeon.

I've been asking for this since they did away with zone leveled dungeons. In the early days you could just out level a group dungeon. It made them easy enough to do solo for anyone if you out leveled it enough, and if you were more than 5 levels ahead you got no loot but you got to enjoy the content.

JJBoomer · January 2019

By all means, put in a solo mode. But i completely disagree with taking all rewards out. Players should not be penalized for enjoying the game as it was designed.

Royaji · January 2019

ZOS really pulled out quite a cat with that announcment and I was expecting something like this thread to pop up very quick.

Personally I think this is a great change. People keep on complaining how easy the game is and how it never teaches you any of the deeper mechanics. Well, put some story behind some content that is a bit harder than light attack spam and there is your incentive to "git gud". If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea. Maybe not being able to faceroll story content with 5k DPS will push people to improve a bit.

Kotusha · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Well, put some story behind some content that is a bit harder than light attack spam and there is your incentive to "git gud". If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea. Maybe not being able to faceroll story content with 5k DPS will push people to improve a bit.

You are missing the point. Story will be impossible to read when you depend on the group's pace to proceed. Even if you are a good player, it's not guaranteed the group will wait for you to read the dialogue (and it's not like they have to wait).

Royaji · January 2019

Kotusha wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Well, put some story behind some content that is a bit harder than light attack spam and there is your incentive to "git gud". If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea. Maybe not being able to faceroll story content with 5k DPS will push people to improve a bit.

You are missing the point. Story will be impossible to read when you depend on the group's pace to proceed. Even if you are a good player, it's not guaranteed the group will wait for you to read the dialogue (and it's not like they have to wait).

This is called find like-minded people and play with them. Considering how many of those story-only players are around it won't be hard at all. God forbid we try to some social interactions in MMO.

I definitely know some people who will be ok with a slow run of those dungeons so I can take a look at the dialog. I did it in CR, MHK, MoS and I will do it in those new dungeons.

kojou · January 2019

I'm sure it will be possible to find 3 other players that either want to do the story as well, or will wait a second.

Just ask as the dungeon starts if they can wait a second at points when there is dialogue. I have found that most people are actually pretty respectful.

One way you can ensure that they wait is to roll a tank.

Ghanima_Atreides · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

This is called find like-minded people and play with them. Considering how many of those story-only players are around it won't be hard at all.

You would be surprised.

Finding such people is not easy at all - speaking as someone who has tried. People who play the game for the story tend to keep to themselves or small group of friends. They don't tend to look for strangers to play with.

Finding like-minded people with the experience and ability, gear, time, etc. to actually complete a DLC dungeon (even on normal) is even harder.

adriant1978 · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

This is called find like-minded people and play with them. Considering how many of those story-only players are around it won't be hard at all. God forbid we try to some social interactions in MMO.

I definitely know some people who will be ok with a slow run of those dungeons so I can take a look at the dialog. I did it in CR, MHK, MoS and I will do it in those new dungeons.

It's not just about trying to find people who are OK with sitting through the dialogue and not running around like impatient loons during scripted scenes, although IMO you overestimate how easy such people are to find.

There's also the issue that a large number of primarily solo, story oriented players will be under-skilled and under-geared for the challenge of these dungeons. There is a huge gap between your typical faceroll easy overland story content and even normal mode DLC dungeons. Are you saying that they just have to git gud if they want to see this story, or that there are plenty of others out there willing to carry them through the content?

We need story mode dungeons.

Royaji · January 2019

adriant1978 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

This is called find like-minded people and play with them. Considering how many of those story-only players are around it won't be hard at all. God forbid we try to some social interactions in MMO.

I definitely know some people who will be ok with a slow run of those dungeons so I can take a look at the dialog. I did it in CR, MHK, MoS and I will do it in those new dungeons.

Are you saying that they just have to git gud if they want to see this story

Yes.

Royaji wrote: »

People keep on complaining how easy the game is and how it never teaches you any of the deeper mechanics. Well, put some story behind some content that is a bit harder than light attack spam and there is your incentive to "git gud". If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea. Maybe not being able to faceroll story content with 5k DPS will push people to improve a bit.

adriant1978 · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

This is called find like-minded people and play with them. Considering how many of those story-only players are around it won't be hard at all. God forbid we try to some social interactions in MMO.

I definitely know some people who will be ok with a slow run of those dungeons so I can take a look at the dialog. I did it in CR, MHK, MoS and I will do it in those new dungeons.

Are you saying that they just have to git gud if they want to see this story

Yes.

Royaji wrote: »

People keep on complaining how easy the game is and how it never teaches you any of the deeper mechanics. Well, put some story behind some content that is a bit harder than light attack spam and there is your incentive to "git gud". If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea. Maybe not being able to faceroll story content with 5k DPS will push people to improve a bit.

OK, that'll teach me to read previous posts more carefully.

Still disagree though. People have a variety of reasons for playing and enjoying this game, not all of which are related to becoming expert in its mechanics, and adding a story mode to dungeons would take away nothing from those who still want the challenge of doing them "properly".

Broyston · January 2019

I am staggered they did this, they know many players struggle with the DLC dungeons, and especially if they have to PUG them, so to place actual storyline in them "forcing" people to play them.......I mean even the normal versions can be a problem for some players. Then there is the issue of trying to run it and read the dialogue with a group that has already done it and you get the abuse for slowing the group up or just get left behind. Not one of ZOS's best ideas.

Royaji · January 2019

adriant1978 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

adriant1978 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

This is called find like-minded people and play with them. Considering how many of those story-only players are around it won't be hard at all. God forbid we try to some social interactions in MMO.

I definitely know some people who will be ok with a slow run of those dungeons so I can take a look at the dialog. I did it in CR, MHK, MoS and I will do it in those new dungeons.

Are you saying that they just have to git gud if they want to see this story

Yes.

Royaji wrote: »

People keep on complaining how easy the game is and how it never teaches you any of the deeper mechanics. Well, put some story behind some content that is a bit harder than light attack spam and there is your incentive to "git gud". If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea. Maybe not being able to faceroll story content with 5k DPS will push people to improve a bit.

OK, that'll teach me to read previous posts more carefully.

Still disagree though. People have a variety of reasons for playing and enjoying this game, not all of which are related to becoming expert in its mechanics.

Becoming expert in mechanics = completing a normal dungeon?

Nah, not really. Just some basic understanding of how the game works.

Casdha · January 2019

I personally can't stand the idea of learning a rotation and sticking to it, I play reactive and I never fight the same way twice. I still tend to average 10k to 14k dps sustained and higher bursts. I would consider that good in its own way. Just cause someone plays different than you doesn't mean they are not "gud".

If you think finding like minded folks for story content is hard, give it a month when most of the players doing the content are folks who have done it 10 or 20 times, Its impossible.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone of how they like to play, but I do think they could have put a ton of development money to better use than to pay an actor vs. a sound-a-like when it comes to content where most who play it are not gonna slow down enough to notice the difference.

HappyLittleTree · January 2019

The Elder Scrolls Online is a massively multiplayer online spin-off of the Elder Scrolls franchise.

multiplayer
[muhl-tee-pley-er, muhl-tahy‐]
adjective

of or relating to a video game, or a portion of a video game, in which more than one person plays at the same time in a shared game environment:
a multiplayer game;
multiplayer mode;
a multiplayer experience.
relating to or involving more than one player:
The pitcher was traded in a multiplayer deal.

Ghanima_Atreides · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Becoming expert in mechanics = completing a normal dungeon?

Nah, not really. Just some basic understanding of how the game works.

True, for base game dungeons, but not true for DLC dungeons. Those are noticeably more difficult to complete, with punishing mechanics.

I know very well how the game works, theoretically, but I still cannot pull more than 15-18K DPS on my strongest character. And before you say "practice more", I have. A lot. My reflexes/speed are just not up to it.

Royaji · January 2019

Casdha wrote: »

I personally can't stand the idea of learning a rotation and sticking to it, I play reactive and I never fight the same way twice. I still tend to average 10k to 14k dps sustained and higher bursts. I would consider that good in its own way. Just cause someone plays different than you doesn't mean they are not "gud".

If you think finding like minded folks for story content is hard, give it a month when most of the players doing the content are folks who have done it 10 or 20 times, Its impossible.

That said, I don't begrudge anyone of how they like to play, but I do think they could have put a ton of development money to better use than to pay an actor vs. a sound-a-like when it comes to content where most who play it are not gonna slow down enough to notice the difference.

Pretty sure Abnur is not only there for that dungeon DLC. He will be in the chapter too.

And you assuming people who prefer a bit harder content completely ignore the story is a bit unfair. I will enjoy that story and will listen to the dialog, especially since lately ZOS is putting more and more dialog as commentary that does not require you to sit through a dialog screen. Seems more immersive to me too. People usually tend to chat while they explore and walk around and not stop every 10 minutes to have a 5 minute dialog while standing completely still. Sometimes a bit of difficulty makes the story more fun and immersive. It really wouldn't make sense why Abnur even needed us if he were able to just casually stroll in, ligth attack everything to death and grab the tablets.

Royaji · January 2019

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Becoming expert in mechanics = completing a normal dungeon?

Nah, not really. Just some basic understanding of how the game works.

True, for base game dungeons, but not true for DLC dungeons. Those are noticeably more difficult to complete, with punishing mechanics.

I'm good at quouting myself today.

Royaji wrote: »

If those dungeons are well designed and are a bit forgiving on normal (looking at you, MHK) there will be nothing wrong with this idea.

And 15k DPS will be enough for any normal dungeon. It's not about DPS at that point and more about basic mechanics like block, dodge, bash and positioning. You know, the ones people tend to completely ignore despite them being one of the most dynamic aspects of the game.

Ghanima_Atreides · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

And 15k DPS will be enough for any normal dungeon. It's not about DPS at that point and more about basic mechanics like block, dodge, bash and positioning. You know, the ones people tend to completely ignore despite them being one of the most dynamic aspects of the game.

That is not my experience. I have always been told that for DLC normal (as well as base game Vet) 20K is the minimum requirement for a smooth run. Perhaps the standards have been lowered since then...

Seraphayel · January 2019

You know what's worse? To experience this "storyline, spanning over four quarterly releases" you have to stay subbed to enjoy all of it. No consistent storyline like in Morrowind or Summerset, no, this time you have to add at least one month of subbing (if you sub in Q4 and play all of the storyline then) to it which is another $13 on top of the overpriced Chapter.

Casdha · January 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Pretty sure Abnur is not only there for that dungeon DLC. He will be in the chapter too.

And you assuming people who prefer a bit harder content completely ignore the story is a bit unfair. I will enjoy that story and will listen to the dialog, especially since lately ZOS is putting more and more dialog as commentary that does not require you to sit through a dialog screen. Seems more immersive to me too. People usually tend to chat while they explore and walk around and not stop every 10 minutes to have a 5 minute dialog while standing completely still. Sometimes a bit of difficulty makes the story more fun and immersive. It really wouldn't make sense why Abnur even needed us if he were able to just casually stroll in, ligth attack everything to death and grab the tablets.

I'm not assuming anything as it pertains to different play styles in this game, to each their own. I speak of the community as a whole and how the lines tend to form along with the individual groups of styles.

I wish these people who keep saying "get gud" had a chance to play the pre-launch Psijic Beta Mannimarco in a forced Solo instance, think VMA+. I beat him by the way, it took me 4 or 5 times to learn the mechanics and when I beat him it was 20+ minutes of not missing a single mechanic. It was no small feat to balance DPS, regen and sustain for that long.

I don't have a problem with hard content, I have a problem with "Main" story content being in a dungeon that is impossible for most to solo, think one shot mechanics that are impossible to avoid playing Solo and only perfect builds can complete them.

HappyLittleTree · January 2019

@Casdha Pretty sure you've missed the whole Point of a MMORPG

Casdha · January 2019

HappyLittleTree wrote: »

@Casdha Pretty sure you've missed the whole Point of a MMORPG

No I didn't, I love the community, but group content should be just that. I also love the fact that most of the characters running around in this game has a real person behind them. MMO does not mean WoW.

Jakx · January 2019

Promoting people to do multiple types of content isnt bad for the game. How about try something new? Dungeons on normal are faceroll and you often can completely ignore all mechanics. Trust me, if you want to see the story, you can. It's your refusal to enter a dungeon on some principle that will keep you from seeing it, not your ability to complete it.

People always seem to forget this is an MMO.