Temporary pets are just DoTs with more interesting graphics

Holycannoli · January 2019

Summoning a necro pet that disappears after a minute or two (don't know the time yet) is really just casting a DoT that you get to watch on the screen. Never been a fan of that kind of pet.

If they are targetable though I can see them having good use

trowlk · January 2019

I don't know, but sometimes they could get in our way in PvP just as sorcerers pets do. Sometimes they end up surviving my gank.
Pets are very useful in PvE, I've been told.

Too soon to even argue about their usefulness.

SydneyGrey · January 2019

So what.
Still awesome.
Can't wait to necromance through Tamriel.

ChunkyCat · January 2019

Kinda like beetles and birds.

Alaztor91 · January 2019

I wish sorc pets were like this lol

Seraphayel · January 2019

One or two minutes? lol

Pretty sure the duration will more be like 10-30 seconds at best. They're temporary and not permanent pets.

Holycannoli · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

One or two minutes? lol

Pretty sure the duration will more be like 10-30 seconds at best. They're temporary and not permanent pets.

Yeah they will probably be 30 seconds max.

What I'm saying is casting a temporary pet like that is the same as casting a DoT on your target, except this DoT is animated. That's really all it is. It's not a pet, it's a DoT. Pets are permanent until killed, DoTs are timed.

I guess I'm just disappointed that I can't run around with a skeleton or zombie pet, but at the same time with the justice system it might be for the best.

Seraphayel · January 2019

They are just short time summonings which fits Necromancer better imho. This game already has too many pets and pets in this game are not working good at all. That's why it's a good decision to give Necromancer only temporary, short time pets.

Konstant_Tel_Necris · January 2019

Dust to Dust, conjuration was always temporal in previous TES games, sorcerers and wardens able maintain permanent summons only with additional concentration like have them double barred many dislikes such requirement.
Besides, that's will sure decrease pet cluttering in public places, many hates bears and winged twilights around banks and crafting station.
I more interested will necromancers summons count as pets for sets like Necropotence and Hunt Leader.

Skwor · January 2019

Need more DOTS!

Tandor · January 2019

If that means that necromancers' pets only appear in combat and not in banks and crafting stations then I'll all for it.

Also, if the fact that necromantic abilities will attract the attention of guards reduces the amount of dueling in towns including places like Vulkhel Guard's wayshrine then I'm all for that too!

Holycannoli · January 2019

Tandor wrote: »

If that means that necromancers' pets only appear in combat and not in banks and crafting stations then I'll all for it.

Also, if the fact that necromantic abilities will attract the attention of guards reduces the amount of dueling in towns including places like Vulkhel Guard's wayshrine then I'm all for that too!

That's a tricky situation though. Will necromancers be gimped when doing quests if they can't summon pets in towns?

ZonasArch · January 2019

Holycannoli wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If that means that necromancers' pets only appear in combat and not in banks and crafting stations then I'll all for it.

Also, if the fact that necromantic abilities will attract the attention of guards reduces the amount of dueling in towns including places like Vulkhel Guard's wayshrine then I'm all for that too!

That's a tricky situation though. Will necromancers be gimped when doing quests if they can't summon pets in towns?

That's one of the things they take about and the answer is yes, and necro is intended to be a hard class to play and master, I'm guessing also because you can't just necro everything everywhere.

Waffennacht · January 2019

ZonasArch wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If that means that necromancers' pets only appear in combat and not in banks and crafting stations then I'll all for it.

Also, if the fact that necromantic abilities will attract the attention of guards reduces the amount of dueling in towns including places like Vulkhel Guard's wayshrine then I'm all for that too!

That's a tricky situation though. Will necromancers be gimped when doing quests if they can't summon pets in towns?

That's one of the things they take about and the answer is yes, and necro is intended to be a hard class to play and master, I'm guessing also because you can't just necro everything everywhere.

We have long mastered the art here on the forums!

Lol, I'm pretty stoked actually. Sounds like a lot of fun

Finviuswe · January 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If that means that necromancers' pets only appear in combat and not in banks and crafting stations then I'll all for it.

Also, if the fact that necromantic abilities will attract the attention of guards reduces the amount of dueling in towns including places like Vulkhel Guard's wayshrine then I'm all for that too!

That's a tricky situation though. Will necromancers be gimped when doing quests if they can't summon pets in towns?

That's one of the things they take about and the answer is yes, and necro is intended to be a hard class to play and master, I'm guessing also because you can't just necro everything everywhere.

We have long mastered the art here on the forums!

Lol, I'm pretty stoked actually. Sounds like a lot of fun

Exactly the forums really aren't an interesting place at this point only veterans come here and by that I mean people who achieved A LOT of cp lol that is the point of them.

Xsorus · January 2019

Holycannoli wrote: »

Summoning a necro pet that disappears after a minute or two (don't know the time yet) is really just casting a DoT that you get to watch on the screen. Never been a fan of that kind of pet.

If they are targetable though I can see them having good use

Tell that to theurgist and animist.

burglar · January 2019

Anyone can marginalize and devalue the meaning of something they don't like, just to make an argument against it. The issue with that approach, though, is that you essentially omit the characteristics that differentiate it from what you're trying to claim it is. In this case, one easily identifiable difference between a pet and a DoT ability is that each attack from the pet is separate from the next, and is not considered by the game to be damage-over-time, even though the damage happens over time. Really, from this perspective, if you wanted to, you could argue that all damage in game is damage over time, because it happens over time.

Holycannoli · January 2019

Xsorus wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Summoning a necro pet that disappears after a minute or two (don't know the time yet) is really just casting a DoT that you get to watch on the screen. Never been a fan of that kind of pet.

If they are targetable though I can see them having good use

Tell that to theurgist and animist.

Whoa flashback! Theurgist was kind of boring with it's pets (they're exactly what I'm talking about) but animist was interesting. It's "pets" weren't pets though, they were turrets.

What was even more interesting than both of them was bonedancer

Summon multiple skeletons and hey they don't disappear, how about that. True pets. What do think of when you think of necromancers? Skeletons and zombies under the command of the necromancer.

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Anyone can marginalize and devalue the meaning of something they don't like, just to make an argument against it. The issue with that approach, though, is that you essentially omit the characteristics that differentiate it from what you're trying to claim it is. In this case, one easily identifiable difference between a pet and a DoT ability is that each attack from the pet is separate from the next, and is not considered by the game to be damage-over-time, even though the damage happens over time. Really, from this perspective, if you wanted to, you could argue that all damage in game is damage over time, because it happens over time.

I mean I hear what you're saying but for me pets are permanent summons (until killed or unsummoned). When they're not permanent they're merely spells. My necro in Everquest had a permanent pet so long as I stayed in the zone. Necro in DAOC had a permanent pet (and a very interesting mechanic). Bonedancer had multiple permanent pets, exactly like what you think of when you think of traditional necromancer pets. Necros in Diablo 2 had permanent pets.

If they don't travel with you, aren't a companion of sorts to you but just a spell that lasts a few seconds, they aren't a pet. That's my opinion anyway.

I'm still looking forward to the class in ESO, but it will be nothing like the "necromancers" I've played in the single player games. In Skyrim I run with two permanent zombies. So much fun. I've always loved playing necromancers with pets.

Seraphayel · January 2019

Holycannoli wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

If that means that necromancers' pets only appear in combat and not in banks and crafting stations then I'll all for it.

Also, if the fact that necromantic abilities will attract the attention of guards reduces the amount of dueling in towns including places like Vulkhel Guard's wayshrine then I'm all for that too!

That's a tricky situation though. Will necromancers be gimped when doing quests if they can't summon pets in towns?

What's tricky here? If the pets are just temporarily you don't have to summon them in towns. And even a Sorc relying on pets is not really gimped when it has to summon pets even while being attacked by mobs, the game is so easy that it really doesn't matter at all.

Xsorus · January 2019

Holycannoli wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

Summoning a necro pet that disappears after a minute or two (don't know the time yet) is really just casting a DoT that you get to watch on the screen. Never been a fan of that kind of pet.

If they are targetable though I can see them having good use

Tell that to theurgist and animist.

Whoa flashback! Theurgist was kind of boring with it's pets (they're exactly what I'm talking about) but animist was interesting.

What was even more interesting though was bonedancer Summon multiple skeletons and hey they don't disappear, how about that.

Bonedancer was either an interrupt bot (Same with Theurgist and animist) Or a stealther cheese killer with the bone army spec

most went with interrupt bot, I went with the spec that buffed the hell out of the pets and then super buffed them and stacked pure defense on BD. Then i'd run out to the Bridge and Stealthers would open up on me, now the normal tactic with most steathers against the BD was to use the Mez poison that would mez all his healers and then they'd just kill him that way.

Me...with my spec..I went a different route...They'd open up on me, and my pets would all instant charge (can't be CCed) the Stealther.....It would go off 100% of the time before Mez poison landed and they instant attacked who attacked me..So I can't count how many times a Stealther went to PA and was instant gibbed in 1 second hehe

But yea... fun class.

Alaztor91 · January 2019

DoTs are just damage...over time.

sadlythebest · January 2019

Think of it as a cute Flames of Oblivion.

Sarannah · January 2019

Hate to say it, but I agree that timed summons are just DOT's. This would make the class for me a no-no.

True necromancers have permanent pets, so the option to have permanent pets should atleast be available in my opinion!

Edit: There are ways to make the necromancer control armies of undead, which would make it different from the sorc/warden. For examples: One permanent main tank/protector pet. While also having a skill that summons maybe 10 or so permanent melee skeletons, which could be altered with other permanent buff-like skills into making 5 of those 10 melee skeletons permanently into ranged spellcasters. Combine these two permanent pet abilities with 2 or 3 more permanent pet abilities and it would feel amazing. Like controlling an army. I wouldn't even mind if this build would be somewhat underpowered, as just the way it would look would be awesome! Permanent skills like these could be accompanied by permanent buffs.
All these skills would have to be slotted and active to keep the pets and buffs permanent though, so there would be choice in which permanent pets to keep and with which permanent buff skills to keep. (permanent buff skills could be like mentioned above: transformations into casters or other transformation types(animals, rodents, humanoids, daedra, etc), added damage buff, health regen buff, protective buffs, etc)
Ofcourse performance-wise this may be difficult.

zaria · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

One or two minutes? lol

Pretty sure the duration will more be like 10-30 seconds at best. They're temporary and not permanent pets.

1-2 minutes would make them real pets who would attack an enemy a lot like summons in Oblivion.
10 second and they are an DoT.

RavenSworn · January 2019

Better than a pet that has to be double barred. #firstworldproblems

Turelus · January 2019

Technically yes, but won't they be buffed by different means. i.e. won't their attacks be direct damage and scale off pet based buffs?

FrancisCrawford · January 2019

Guild Wars started out with an unlimited number of permanent minions. That was wildly overpowered.

They changed it to 10 minions with a health debuff on them that consumed a lot of resources to heal through. That was balanced, but not particularly fun.

Then they introduced a system where you could have NPC companions -- "Heroes" IIRC -- who used exactly the same builds PCs could. That was an awesome use of MMs (Minion Masters), because the mechanics that I found too boring to want to play myself were also so simple that the AI did a good job with them. I basically never played a live MM again.

Of course, since they had a limit of one minion per corpse, only one companion was an MM.

Faulgor · January 2019

I prefer it this way. Limited time summons are the norm in TES.

Alaztor91 · January 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

They changed it to 10 minions with a health debuff on them that consumed a lot of resources to heal through. That was balanced, but not particularly fun.

You could actually have 12 minions if you managed to increase your Death Magic attribute to lvl 20, but yeah it wasn't my favourite build either, I always preferred the curses SS necro.

Seraphayel · January 2019

zaria wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

One or two minutes? lol

Pretty sure the duration will more be like 10-30 seconds at best. They're temporary and not permanent pets.

1-2 minutes would make them real pets who would attack an enemy a lot like summons in Oblivion.
10 second and they are an DoT.

No, they are short timed pets and not DoTs. As somebody else said, by that regard everything would be a DoT because everything deals damage over time.

Holycannoli · January 2019

Faulgor wrote: »

I prefer it this way. Limited time summons are the norm in TES.

My Skyrim character has two permanent zombies. People are scared of them but guards don't come running at me or anything.

If I can remember correctly Morrowind summons were temporary but also varied, from ghosts to golden saints. And there was a way to make them permanent which of course I did...

Seraphayel wrote: »

No, they are short timed pets and not DoTs. As somebody else said, by that regard everything would be a DoT because everything deals damage over time.

Everything sort of is yes. Most are generally quick cast with a few channeled or longer cast times. Pets aren't.

Does anyone consider the Storm Atronach ultimate a pet? In Skyrim it was but in ESO it's not a pet, it's a turret with a 20-something second duration (forget exact duration). Even if it moved and chased down it's target it wouldn't be a pet because of it's short duration. Oh how I want the sorcerer to be able to summon proper atronach pets instead of clannfear and twilight all the time! All this amazing variety available and we get none of it.