General Observation About Population
Jakx
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Breaking news: ESO is an MMO.
So with that in mind: Its interesting how in a game that requires and desires people to play it to be successful that the Eso experience diminishes so greatly the more people play it. We should welcome a greater population for the health and survival of ESO but instead its a detriment to the player experience through lag, quests which become impossible to complete, server instability, events breaking, etc.
I'm always happy to see new players try the game out and I really want to see the population grow. However at the same time ESO can't even handle more players to help its own survival. You would think it would be paramount for their Business side to see the long-term prospects of this but instead we continue to see content patches that push new content instead of fixing the infrastructure of the game. Its a completely misguided strategy and one that I hope they can direct the suits to see the error of their ways. Maybe the cold hard reality is they've made their profit and anything extra is icing at this point.
Tldr: I want this game to grow and be more populous but anytime it attempts to bring in players the infrastructure breaks down. I wonder how much money Zenimax has lost to not being able to retain players due to poor performance rather than the money they made from pushing new content.
So with that in mind: Its interesting how in a game that requires and desires people to play it to be successful that the Eso experience diminishes so greatly the more people play it. We should welcome a greater population for the health and survival of ESO but instead its a detriment to the player experience through lag, quests which become impossible to complete, server instability, events breaking, etc.
I'm always happy to see new players try the game out and I really want to see the population grow. However at the same time ESO can't even handle more players to help its own survival. You would think it would be paramount for their Business side to see the long-term prospects of this but instead we continue to see content patches that push new content instead of fixing the infrastructure of the game. Its a completely misguided strategy and one that I hope they can direct the suits to see the error of their ways. Maybe the cold hard reality is they've made their profit and anything extra is icing at this point.
Tldr: I want this game to grow and be more populous but anytime it attempts to bring in players the infrastructure breaks down. I wonder how much money Zenimax has lost to not being able to retain players due to poor performance rather than the money they made from pushing new content.
Joined September 2013
7
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The poor performance is mostly in Cyrodiil when we get a stacked battle.
In PvE, the game makes a new map shard once enough people are in the first one so it doesn't get too overcrowdedBeta tester November 20135 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I also think many newer players come in get overwhelmed and just go back to playing what they're comfortable with. I've had buddies from others games I've played tell me its too big, or they don't know what to do (even though I tried helping countless times) or they're stuck and don't feel like putting in the effort. ESO can be a lonely place when you first come in and if they don't make friends well, most quit. I do however feel the population has been pretty good, at least on PS4 NA that is.Edited by Odovacar on December 13, 2018 5:07PM3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After playing on the PC EU server since launch, I was interested a few weeks ago to try out an additional character (of course being an altaholic it's now two characters
) on the PC NA server. In the open world zones the population seems to me to be pretty identical, perhaps indicative of the effectiveness of the shard approach @Katahdin mentions above, and I also found that playing from the UK the performance (again, open world zones) is also the same, namely flawless which quite surprised me. Given that I always disable Zone chat and enable Zone English chat, the overall feel is so identical that I can't honestly tell which server I'm on. Both populations seem equally stong.
I think a lot of players find ESO difficult as a MMORPG because they come either from single-player games like Skyrim or MMO-lite games like GW2 (and that term also applies increasingly these days to WoW). They need to invest time in ESO to "get the hang of it".
I would personally suggest to new players that they need to play the game to level 20 before making a judgement on it, and that they should aim to spend at least a couple of weeks getting there. If all they want is a MMO-lite that they can do endgame PvE or PvP on inside a couple of days then they may as well not bother, this isn't the game for them.Edited by Tandor on December 13, 2018 5:23PM2 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭I think you guys are missing the point of my post. Those are fair concerns regarding the depth of the game and its overwhelming nature. The beginning of the game could do a much better job at explaining different mechanics of the game for sure.
This thread points out that performance wise the game breaks down with the more people that play it. Its counterproductive to the game that if its successful it gets worse.
Also I dont know how you can conclude its just Cyrodiil with performance issues. Just look at the Undaunted festival. People logged in and wanted to use the dungeon finder.. a key component of the game. Instead they couldn't because it broke multiple times. That's because the game had an influx of people playing for the event... shame on the game for trying to get more people since it cant handle it. Dont forget that we have in game events so that Zos can make money and bring people in. Yet the game cant handle it.
Look at some of the kill quests that are out there. Zones cant handle the influx of players because spawns dont increase. Clockwork city event and New Life has areas where you cant find mobs due to spawn camps.
Server performance. Cyrodiil. The more people the worse the experience. Literally isnt playable. Thats a giant selling point to the game that they leave neglected.. thats money down the drain right there.
So I am pointing out that this game cant even handle the modest increases to player population that happen from events. How the hell does it expect to grow.Joined September 20132 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't agree @Jakx .
I don't notice any change in performance either since launch or during events. I had no problem getting quest stuff in Clockwork City during that event, I just moved around according to where there were fewer people. Most of the forum complaints were from players who thought there was only one place they could get the stuff from, and that wasn't true. The items in instances were easy to get as the mobs were constantly killed so there were fewer interruptions when advancing through the instances, moreover unlike the harvesting nodes outside the items were available to you regardless of whether other players had already been there and taken theirs, no respawn was needed.
As I understand it, never having used it, the dungeon finder was broken long before the recent event. Again, a lot of the forum complaints during the event were from players who thought they had to use the dungeon finder in order to get the event ticket - they didn't.
The game has grown consistently since One Tamriel, with only Cyrodiil to a large extent as well as trials to a lesser extent providing the main focus of performance issues. Outside of those areas I don't notice any change in performance during special events, not even at crowded dolmens or delves. Maybe it's different on console, I wouldn't know.1 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭As I understand it, never having used it, the dungeon finder was broken long before the recent event. Again, a lot of the forum complaints during the event were from players who thought they had to use the dungeon finder in order to get the event ticket - they didn't.
.
Dungeon Finder had issues but it was determined those issues stem from more people using it. You couldn't get your box without the dungeon finder.
Its interesting this is being debated. Look no further than the anecdotal evidence all throughout the general forum about performance issues. The one thing in common is they occur with larger populations of people doing that activity.
Edited by Jakx on December 13, 2018 6:26PMJoined September 20130 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.1 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.Joined September 20131 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.0 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.
You were completely off topic and didn't put forth much effort to show you had any sort of reading comprehension. I would say that your "doom and gloom" vs. "game cant handle more" are inextricably linked. The game will certainly have trouble retaining people if it cant grow and infrastructure problems that cause poor performance aren't fixed. It's just different ways of contextualizing the health of the game. Everytime this game wants to break out and gain people its held back by its own success.Joined September 20131 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agreed. I know there are portions of the game that are relatively "dead", like Xbox EU, but on Xbox NA and on PC, this game is still booming. The populations are nuts and it's difficult to engage in events because of it. During Midyear Mayhem, queues into Cyrodil hit well over 500 during Prime time, then you're lucky if you can make it past your first keep without crashing and being kicked out of Cyrodil. This is a fantastic game with a ton of potential, but it keeps missing out on the potential for even more revenue by disappointing its client base with poor performance and wretched customer service (yes, ignoring your customers is also a sign of poor customer service).
I just keep trying to focus on the really good parts of this game, and try to appreciate the work put in by those who still take pride in their work in this company. Namely, the dungeon designers and the art department. You can see the pride in their creations and the skill that goes into it. As for the rest, I think some of them genuinely try to make it work, but you can only do so much when you have bean counters and upper management forcing counter-intuitive agendas down your throat. I actually feel really bad for the people who work for this company and who are likely getting constant criticism from both ends.Edited by p00tx on December 13, 2018 6:54PMPC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.
This is shaping out to be one of those topics where we're expected to agree with the OP. No room for dissenters here ! Edited by Tandor on December 13, 2018 6:45PM2 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.
You were completely off topic and didn't put forth much effort to show you had any sort of reading comprehension. I would say that your "doom and gloom" vs. "game cant handle more" are inextricably linked. The game will certainly have trouble retaining people if it cant grow and infrastructure problems that cause poor performance aren't fixed. It's just different ways of contextualizing the health of the game. Everytime this game wants to break out and gain people its held back by its own success.
I hope you don’t talk to people like this in real life conversations. Someone is bound to put their fist through your skull.
But anyway, thanks for your post.1 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭Agreed. I know there are portions of the game that are relatively "dead", like Xbox EU, but on Xbox NA and on PC, this game is still booming. The populations are nuts and it's difficult to engage in events because of it. During Midyear Mayhem, queues into Cyrodil hit well over 500 during Prime time, then you're lucky if you can make it past your first keep without crashing and being kicked out of Cyrodil. This is a fantastic game with a ton of potential, but it keeps missing out on the potential for even more revenue by disappointing it's client base with poor performance and wretched customer service (yes, ignoring your customers is also a sign of poor customer service).
I just keep trying to focus on the really good parts of this game, and try to appreciate the work put in by those who still take pride in their work in this company. Namely, the dungeon designers and the art department. You can see the pride in their creations and the skill that goes into it. As for the rest, I think some of them genuinely try to make it work, but you can only do so much when you have bean counters and upper management forcing counter-intuitive agendas down your throat. I actually feel really bad for the people who work for this company and who are likely getting constant criticism from both ends.
Yup exactly this. I am greatly happy to see it succeed but I am reminded that anytime it does it can't handle its success. How many people come into these events trying to re-experience the game and probably conclude.. "same old issues." We haven't had any updates dedicated to fixing existing infrastructure. It's just push more content all the time. Just look at the recent discovery that Guild rosters are updating too frequently causing performance issues.. guild rosters. Maybe we're too far past this game having the necessary development support for back end fixes to the code. The engineers who helped make the game are long gone.Joined September 20130 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.
You were completely off topic and didn't put forth much effort to show you had any sort of reading comprehension. I would say that your "doom and gloom" vs. "game cant handle more" are inextricably linked. The game will certainly have trouble retaining people if it cant grow and infrastructure problems that cause poor performance aren't fixed. It's just different ways of contextualizing the health of the game. Everytime this game wants to break out and gain people its held back by its own success.
I hope you don’t talk to people like this in real life conversations. Someone is bound to put their fist through your skull.
But anyway, thanks for your post.
I guess my ability to use the English language frustrates you to violent outcomes. Thanks for your off-topic input.Joined September 20131 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.
You were completely off topic and didn't put forth much effort to show you had any sort of reading comprehension. I would say that your "doom and gloom" vs. "game cant handle more" are inextricably linked. The game will certainly have trouble retaining people if it cant grow and infrastructure problems that cause poor performance aren't fixed. It's just different ways of contextualizing the health of the game. Everytime this game wants to break out and gain people its held back by its own success.
I hope you don’t talk to people like this in real life conversations. Someone is bound to put their fist through your skull.
But anyway, thanks for your post.
I guess my ability to use the English language frustrates you to violent outcomes. Thanks for your off-topic input.
Self-congratulating too. Amazing!
You’re most welcome. I wish the very best outcome for you.0 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Where’s the ESO is dead guys?
Good Lord. It’s about 12:30 PM CST. It’s packed.
Never said Eso was dead but reading comprehension is difficult. Likely because you didn't read it.
Clearly said the game can't handle more people and that I want it to continue to grow but the infrastructure of the game cant handle growth.
I did read your post. I was simply asking where are the doom and gloom folks are. You say it can’t handle more, the doom and gloom say it’s dead.
Which is it?
Now, on to you being a smug, bag of donuts in your first sentence. Grow up.
You were completely off topic and didn't put forth much effort to show you had any sort of reading comprehension. I would say that your "doom and gloom" vs. "game cant handle more" are inextricably linked. The game will certainly have trouble retaining people if it cant grow and infrastructure problems that cause poor performance aren't fixed. It's just different ways of contextualizing the health of the game. Everytime this game wants to break out and gain people its held back by its own success.
I hope you don’t talk to people like this in real life conversations. Someone is bound to put their fist through your skull.
But anyway, thanks for your post.
What about his post makes you feel violent? I agree with him, seems lile you're just wanting to pick a fight.1 -
ereboz✭✭✭✭✭I've played pc na since first beta. I've always thought the population was very healthy. Currently made the move to Xbox, it's where I'm more comfortable and where all my friends play. The population is just as strong and healthy there, if not stronger0