Spell Crafting Means Nothing Unless We Get More Bar Slots

Siohwenoeht · January 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So wait.... I'm stuck with 5 skill slots because consoles don't have more buttons????

Oh for....

I just shot my Starbucks out my nose! Your phrasing made laugh!

As others have pointed out, they might add a third bar ultimate for everyone so you can add more. Not only UI for overload, but werewolf is a lot easier to manage now. As far as spell crafting, if it is ever added, I'd imagine it would be a consumable like a potion instead of a potentially spammable ability.

With necromacers in play, perhaps we'll see a rework of the soul skills tree and that could jump us to a third bar for more skill slots...

Sylvermynx · January 2019

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So wait.... I'm stuck with 5 skill slots because consoles don't have more buttons????

Oh for....

I just shot my Starbucks out my nose! Your phrasing made laugh! As others have pointed out, they might add a third bar ultimate for everyone so you can add more. Not only UI for overload, but werewolf is a lot easier to manage now. As far as spell crafting, if it is ever added, I'd imagine it would be a consumable like a portion instead of a potentially spammable ability.

With necromacers in play, perhaps we'll see a rework of the soul skills tree and that could jump us to a third bar for more skill slots...

Oy, sorry I made you waste your Starbucks goodie! See, the problem for me is a third bar isn't going to cut it. I can't reliably swap to the SECOND bar with my lag. And apparently (believe me, I have spent HOURS searching....) there's no real way to mitigate satellite lag..... so....

See, with a keyboard pattern like I had in WoW and RIFT, all I had to do was pause for the GCD in between each keypress. That.... doesn't work here.... not sure why. With only 5 slots, I should be able to get a decent rotation. But by the time I've paused out the GCD on each keypress, then return to the beginning, NOTHING is actually ready to fire. So either the GCD plus my lag is even worse than I think it is, or something else is whacked.

Now, this is the same satellite I had when playing the other games. And with the longer rotation (twice as long plus), by the time I started over (which truthfully didn't happen at all in WoW except in group content - not that I did much of that, except on my max level main who ran older group content solo for drops or with three or four others from my sub-accounts tagging along for gear drops) every skill was working fine again on pause+keypress.

So I don't know what's with this in this game. Sure I've only been playing 6 months - but by 6 months in the other games, I had the attack rotation down to a fine science. After those first 6 months in the other games, it was really rare for any of my girls to die. Not so in this game....

mb10 · January 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So wait.... I'm stuck with 5 skill slots because consoles don't have more buttons????

Oh for....

They could easily make more skills for console tbh

The D pad buttons could be way more better utilised imo and definitely could be used for skills instead of changing camera angle, emotes and flicking through quests

Faulgor · January 2019

Well done, ZOS. Teasing Spellcrafting like it's actually coming only for people to be disappointed again.

Why are you toying with us like this.

Siohwenoeht · January 2019

@Sylvermynx I see... Well I can tell you that even on my button-lacking console and the best wired internet in my area, my skills don't fire the way I expect them too either.

Do your ultimate abilities fire reliably? I wonder if the pre murkmire overload bar would've worked more consistently with your satellite connection?

Sylvermynx · January 2019

mb10 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So wait.... I'm stuck with 5 skill slots because consoles don't have more buttons????

Oh for....

They could easily make more skills for console tbh

The D pad buttons could be way more better utilised imo and definitely could be used for skills instead of changing camera angle, emotes and flicking through quests

Well, I've never had a console. So I don't really know. I didn't realize my gameplay would be gimped because of console limitations, as I am very new to this game (6 months total).

As for stuff like changing cam angles, emotes, and quests - sheesh, does anyone even bother with that sort of crap? I never messed with that stuff in the FIRST mmo I played (WoW) or the second (RIFT). Why would anyone go there? I think some of the settings on PC address that - those would be the settings I set to OFF instantly....

I PLAY games, I don't mess with cam angles and emotes. In fact.... I don't use emotes period, anywhere. Not on any device.

Siohwenoeht · January 2019

mb10 wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

So wait.... I'm stuck with 5 skill slots because consoles don't have more buttons????

Oh for....

They could easily make more skills for console tbh

The D pad buttons could be way more better utilised imo and definitely could be used for skills instead of changing camera angle, emotes and flicking through quests

Not to completely de-rail the thread but the d-pad for skills would be super awkward. It's enough to pop a potion while in combat, but forget changing them on the fly between offensive or defensive, plus you have to basically stop moving to bar swap because your thumb comes off the stick. At most you could take out the camera adjust for one other skill but for the folks that use the emotes, not have a quick access means 3-4 menu drops to get to them...

Sylvermynx · January 2019

Eh, my fault on the derail. Sorry. I just have no idea about consoles at all. I bought my first PC in 1984 - never had any use for consoles....

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2019

Isn't dragon break just mean they can go off script, screw the lore and recon anything they want?

Siohwenoeht · January 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, my fault on the derail. Sorry. I just have no idea about consoles at all. I bought my first PC in 1984 - never had any use for consoles....

Nothing to worry about. I'd queue up right with you for more skill slots if ESO+ included one of those new snazzy razor keyboard and mouse for xbox1!

Sylvermynx · January 2019

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Isn't dragon break just mean they can go off script, screw the lore and recon anything they want?

Well, that's sort of how I see it, yes. However.... I tend to the jaundiced viewpoint, so perhaps I'll get to be pleasantly surprised this time.

I mean that seriously - generally I assume the worst and then am happily suprised if it doesn't happen. My brother says I'm a cynic; I say I'm a realist.

Dreyloch · January 2019

Cries wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

It's not a stretch, heres a physical copy sent to various stream team members.

You're very right here. It's not a stretch at all. In fact, I've been theory crafting for a while in various threads that there is evidence Spellcrafting is the this year's big new mechanic, even before those tablets were sent out. But all of that evidence can just as easily be only pointing towards Dragons and Necromancers, which are already verified by the datamining and ZOS's responses.

However, I feel it's not right for threads to outright state Spelllcrafting is coming as that can very easily be wrong (and at this point, most likely is wrong).

We'll find out for sure on the twitch stream coming this Tuesday. For the time being lets just assume the premise of this thread is true and spell crafting is coming, then don't you think we need more bar space? People always slot the same abilities because there is no room for diversity with the current 10 slots 2 ultimates. If there was 14 slots 2 ultimates, with the new 4 specifically only for spell crafted skills I think people would come up with pretty unique stuff and hopefully keep it to themselves so it doesn't become meta.

Here's the simplest way to respond to this.... Console game pads. There simply aren't enough buttons for those players to utilize 14 slots. I actually have a few sorcs, and tbh, I hated the third bar. It was clumsy and in the fast pace of PvP, it usually didn't work well enough to warrant it's use. Very few players were any good with it. I would love to see spellcrafting, don't get me wrong. Just don't think they'll make any UI changes for extra buttons.

Sheezabeast · January 2019

I kinda assumed if they introduced Spell Crafting, that they would be quick-slottable instant use items we can craft. Having it be like that would add some risk to using it, sacrificing popping a potion during the duration of the spell. Would help balance their use in case some were overpowered.

Sylvermynx · January 2019

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, my fault on the derail. Sorry. I just have no idea about consoles at all. I bought my first PC in 1984 - never had any use for consoles....

Nothing to worry about. I'd queue up right with you for more skill slots if ESO+ included one of those new snazzy razor keyboard and mouse for xbox1!

Well, that would be totally great! We can hope, right?

Ertosi · January 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Isn't dragon break just mean they can go off script, screw the lore and recon anything they want?

Well, that's sort of how I see it, yes. However.... I tend to the jaundiced viewpoint, so perhaps I'll get to be pleasantly surprised this time.

I mean that seriously - generally I assume the worst and then am happily suprised if it doesn't happen. My brother says I'm a cynic; I say I'm a realist.

That's how fans often tend to interpret it, but I consider it a bit backwards. It's more like the concept of Dragonbreaks were made to make a lore reason why players remember events differently due to their various choices while playing. Dragonbreaks tend to overlap the games where our player character effects the actions and fates of many. It's a way of saying Yes, each of those realities existed, but there is only one that history remembers afterwards, which might not perfectly align with the experiences of the players. Its never been used to "screw" the lore, rather it protects it from the minor inconsistences from our choices.

That's why, no matter what the Psijics say on the matter in-game, it's already obvious in ESO we're living through a Dragonbreak. Every single quest where you have to choose if this person or that person dies, you're making choices that might not match up with the next player or what the official Lore remembers. That's a Dragonbreak.

K0rpeN · January 2019

I hope we don't get spellcrafting at all.

Sylvermynx · January 2019

Ertosi wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Isn't dragon break just mean they can go off script, screw the lore and recon anything they want?

Well, that's sort of how I see it, yes. However.... I tend to the jaundiced viewpoint, so perhaps I'll get to be pleasantly surprised this time.

I mean that seriously - generally I assume the worst and then am happily suprised if it doesn't happen. My brother says I'm a cynic; I say I'm a realist.

That's how fans often tend to interpret it, but I consider it a bit backwards. It's more like the concept of Dragonbreaks were made to make a lore reason why players remember events differently due to their various choices while playing. Dragonbreaks tend to overlap the games where our player character effects the actions and fates of many. It's a way of saying Yes, each of those realities existed, but there is only one that history remembers afterwards, which might not perfectly align with the experiences of the players. Its never been used to "screw" the lore, rather it protects it from the minor inconsistences from our choices.

That's why, no matter what the Psijics say on the matter in-game, it's already obvious in ESO we're living through a Dragonbreak. Every single quest where you have to choose if this person or that person dies, you're making choices that might not match up with the next player or what the official Lore remembers. That's a Dragonbreak.

It's still a "manipulation mechanism". I don't mean that I think it shouldn't be there (or here....or.... wherever), just that - it's in the game so that things CAN be retconned without the "ultimate hysterics" or whatever you want to call it.

Ertosi · January 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Ertosi wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Isn't dragon break just mean they can go off script, screw the lore and recon anything they want?

Well, that's sort of how I see it, yes. However.... I tend to the jaundiced viewpoint, so perhaps I'll get to be pleasantly surprised this time.

I mean that seriously - generally I assume the worst and then am happily suprised if it doesn't happen. My brother says I'm a cynic; I say I'm a realist.

That's how fans often tend to interpret it, but I consider it a bit backwards. It's more like the concept of Dragonbreaks were made to make a lore reason why players remember events differently due to their various choices while playing. Dragonbreaks tend to overlap the games where our player character effects the actions and fates of many. It's a way of saying Yes, each of those realities existed, but there is only one that history remembers afterwards, which might not perfectly align with the experiences of the players. Its never been used to "screw" the lore, rather it protects it from the minor inconsistences from our choices.

That's why, no matter what the Psijics say on the matter in-game, it's already obvious in ESO we're living through a Dragonbreak. Every single quest where you have to choose if this person or that person dies, you're making choices that might not match up with the next player or what the official Lore remembers. That's a Dragonbreak.

It's still a "manipulation mechanism". I don't mean that I think it shouldn't be there (or here....or.... wherever), just that - it's in the game so that things CAN be retconned without the "ultimate hysterics" or whatever you want to call it.

"Can" is different then "will". Worry about that stuff after it happens; until then you're just jumping at shadows.

Be thankful that TES lore is robust enough to include a mechanic that explains why your player's choices mattered in old games even if history took a different turn.

TimeDazzler · January 2019

If I am right I accept nice home furnishings in my mail as an apology.

Also, in the video and initial data mining that people did years ago they found that each spell has 6 different runes (similar to glyph crafting) that can be given to alter the effect of the spell.

Spellcrafting Focuses

Base: The plain old spell with no frills.

Ultimate: Each spell can be turned into an ultimate which hits hard, but can only be slotted as an ultimate and can’t be spammed.

Ritual: You can add either a channel or cast time to any spell in order to add a bonus effect or increase the spell's magnitude or duration.

Enduring: Think of this as turning a spell into a toggle ability. When activated your resource pool will be depleted by a certain amount for the duration of the toggle. Recast the spell to toggle it off and regain your resources.

Reduced Cost: Any spell can be given a bonus effect that when properly activated will return some resources to you the player.

AOE: Spells can be turned in Area of Effect spells or if a base effect is already AOE in nature, can be morphed into a more aggressive or higher hitting AOE effect.

Just putting this out there as another reason we need increased bar space. Maybe if they introduced a spell crafting bar with 5 abilities and 1 ultimate you would be required to have 1 spell of each focus for a total of 6 as a normal bar would be.

ruengdet2515 · January 2019

1. you can use only 1 spell craft slot
2. spell craft has cool down 45s like potion
3. no need for bar swap

Ertosi · January 2019

Cries wrote: »

If I am right I accept nice home furnishings in my mail as an apology.

Also, in the video and initial data mining that people did years ago they found that each spell has 6 different runes (similar to glyph crafting) that can be given to alter the effect of the spell.

Spellcrafting Focuses

Base: The plain old spell with no frills.

Ultimate: Each spell can be turned into an ultimate which hits hard, but can only be slotted as an ultimate and can’t be spammed.

Ritual: You can add either a channel or cast time to any spell in order to add a bonus effect or increase the spell's magnitude or duration.

Enduring: Think of this as turning a spell into a toggle ability. When activated your resource pool will be depleted by a certain amount for the duration of the toggle. Recast the spell to toggle it off and regain your resources.

Reduced Cost: Any spell can be given a bonus effect that when properly activated will return some resources to you the player.

AOE: Spells can be turned in Area of Effect spells or if a base effect is already AOE in nature, can be morphed into a more aggressive or higher hitting AOE effect.

Just putting this out there as another reason we need increased bar space. Maybe if they introduced a spell crafting bar with 5 abilities and 1 ultimate you would be required to have 1 spell of each focus for a total of 6 as a normal bar would be.

I was just reviewing all of that as well in the old vid.

I hope they add two more Focuses: Stamina and Health, which would convert the cost from Magicka to using... Stamina or Health. Ideally, these two would be added in a way so they could be used in conjunction with the other Foci. The Health version could be considered Blood Magic as a bit of flavor.

A bit of a correction: Reduced Cost is used to make spells more resource efficient to cast. It was the Ritual focus which was described as giving a spell a bonus effect.

zaria · January 2019

Ertosi wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

It's not a stretch, heres a physical copy sent to various stream team members.

You're very right here. It's not a stretch at all. In fact, I've been theory crafting for a while in various threads that there is evidence Spellcrafting is the this year's big new mechanic, even before those tablets were sent out. But all of that evidence can just as easily be only pointing towards Dragons and Necromancers, which are already verified by the datamining and ZOS's responses.

However, I feel it's not right for threads to outright state Spelllcrafting is coming as that can very easily be wrong (and at this point, most likely is wrong).

This, its some indications that they tried to make spellcrafting for Summerset, they added some of the old spellcrafting models to the game, and yes its an expansion it would fit well with.
However it did not work out, some class representative said it was canned after summerset.
Indicating we got jewelry crafting instead.

Necromancers are the next big mechanic.
However Morrowind gave us Warden and battleground.
Summerset gave us Psijic Order and jewelry crafting
Elsweyr will give necromancers, do not see how dragons will fit in. An trial boss is not an major feature, its part of an trial.
Roaming world bosses?

ZonasArch · January 2019

Cries wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

OR dont add spellcrafting.

It's coming with Elsweyr so you might as well embrace it and try to make it meaningful by having extra bar space.

How can you tell? I see no patch notes anywhere. Got me confused. Can you predict the future?

Silly.

zaria · January 2019

We can not get new quickslots because of controllers.
However you have the old overload mechanic, it would work well with spells as it can not be used with weapon abilities.
Liked it on my sorcerer healer, I would put Dark Conversion on it for restoring resources, wraith for execute, even stuff like vigor or power surge. Still had the matriarc for heals and could leave healing spring as an fast way to return to resto staff.

An new guild skill line hopefully restore this as its very nice for utility skills.

Beardimus · January 2019

People.hype about spellcrafting as it sounds cool, but honnestly how do people think it will work.

Balance is a mess right now. 2018 was all about sweeping changes to get balance right and all it did was mess with things totally.
Look at the change to Frag in 2017, huge impact to Sorc, then the complete yoyo effect with adding damage to Rune Cage for one patch.

Lord only knows how Necromancer is going to fit in the. Spell crafting too. I get people like shiny stuff that sounds cool but honestly, how on earth can this work.

Thraben · January 2019

So that´s why they deleted the Overload bar, because a class called "Sorcerer" could outperform the other classes in Spellcrafting due to more bar space. Which it arguably SHOULD lore-wise.

Now, as it stands, the class which needs the minimum skill space to be viable will be the winner of Spellcrafting - which is, ironically, the Nightblade, who basically only needs Assassin´s Will + 1 shadow skill and 1 syphoning skill.

Tasear · January 2019

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I kinda assumed if they introduced Spell Crafting, that they would be quick-slottable instant use items we can craft. Having it be like that would add some risk to using it, sacrificing popping a potion during the duration of the spell. Would help balance their use in case some were overpowered.

That would be fun.

Princess_Ciri · January 2019

this makes no sense lol. ESO is all about tactically choosing the best skills, not just spamming as many abilities as possible. Go to another MMO if that's what you want.

Tasear · January 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

People.hype about spellcrafting as it sounds cool, but honnestly how do people think it will work.

Balance is a mess right now. 2018 was all about sweeping changes to get balance right and all it did was mess with things totally.
Look at the change to Frag in 2017, huge impact to Sorc, then the complete yoyo effect with adding damage to Rune Cage for one patch.

Lord only knows how Necromancer is going to fit in the. Spell crafting too. I get people like shiny stuff that sounds cool but honestly, how on earth can this work.

The balance issue can be done with quantity and different quality of spells. The biggest issue with balance is it's to easy to have the best and every skill.

Could also just make them consumbles.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · January 2019

Cries wrote: »

500+ combinations to create yet only 10 normal abilities and 2 ultimates to slot are not enough. Expand both bars or give us a 3rd bar like sorcerers had specifically for spell crafted skills.

if 3rd bar comes it will behind the pay wall so i dont think we will have a 3rd bar, also its not need