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Stamina sorcerer - is it worth?

Edelner
Edelner
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I have a few questions about stamina sorcerer.Is this build good for end game hard content like vet trial/vet dungeon etc? What people think about stam sorc in group on trials? I know most wanted is stamblade, but i don't like this build.It is possible to have high possition in leaderboard playing stam sorc? What big is diffrence in dps between stam sorc and for example stamblade?
  • tactx
    tactx
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    It's better than stamblade for anything aoe and has great natural healing. It's lower for single target damage (not much), but the real issue is you're going to run into serious sustain issues compared to nightblade.

    It'll look like it does a lot less target dummy damage, but that's because stamblade uses surprise attack which has built in major fracture. In a group setting you'll benefit from their major fracture so your dps will still be strong.
    “No one's happiness but my own is in my power to achieve or to destroy.” - John Galt, Atlas Shrugged
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    Edelner wrote: »
    I have a few questions about stamina sorcerer.Is this build good for end game hard content like vet trial/vet dungeon etc? What people think about stam sorc in group on trials? I know most wanted is stamblade, but i don't like this build.It is possible to have high possition in leaderboard playing stam sorc? What big is diffrence in dps between stam sorc and for example stamblade?

    In raids its over 5k
  • ATomiX96
    ATomiX96
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    Edelner wrote: »
    It is possible to have high possition in leaderboard playing stam sorc?

    Its possible to have high leaderboards positions with a 12 warden group lmfao.
    Edelner wrote: »
    What big is diffrence in dps between stam sorc and for example stamblade?

    ~5-8k if you are looking at the best of the best, nightblade passives and sustain simply too strong

    Is it fun? Yes
    Is it viable? Yes
    Should you try it? Yes
    Edited by ATomiX96 on January 4, 2019 11:46PM
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    It's all about your own ability and what you find enjoyable, it was already proven during last pts cycle that all the stamina classes were within 58-62k dps of each other with the same buffs and debuffs. I forgot who did the tests. Would be a little lower now since those tests had relequen proccing selenes.

    Stam Sorc's main issue is it's sustain due to the problem of having extremely high stamina drain. Simply using Dubious Cameron Throne and the Stormfist monster set provides enough stamina recovery. Being redguard with an infused absorb stamina enchant and having no orbs/shards, I could sustain a 6m test dummy with only 1 or 2 heavy attacks waiting for my next potion. (Self buffed parse = lower dps = longer fight = harder to get through the whole fight without heavy attacks, if I had minor berserk, major fracture, minor brutality/savagery, I would of never needed to heavy attack)

    In group content with orbs/shards you would be 100% okay for sustain.

    The other issue is people think they are weak because of test dummy parses, they have almost 0 self buffs/debuffs that other classes have access to. So in a group setting your DPS will sky rocket from what you're use to.

    They are very fun, your rotation is easy and you only need to manage hurricane effectively by casting it anytime it gets to the end of its 15 second duration which doesn't line up with the 12 second rotation of stamina classes.

    Hurricane makes the class, it probably has the highest aoe potential in the game and if your like me, theme is really important. The classes theme of wind/shock damage is what keeps me playing the class as my main. It also helps that some of the strongest stamina sets in the game right now (pve) are wind/shock themed. I love this. I don't think I'll ever switch from relequen + stormfist because of the class theme.

    Crit surge is a 1 stop shop for self healing, at it's base it provides 3k healing a second that can crit and major brutality averaging out to 4-4.5k self healing a second. I almost always run the skill in pug dungeons. This makes solo, VMA and 4 man content a breeze to play.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 5, 2019 7:51PM
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • Att1Tude
    Att1Tude
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    Definitely try it. Very fun to play in both PvP and PvE
    PC-EU
    How-Much-Is-The-Fish Stamsorc
    A Friend Of Nature Magwarden
  • troomar
    troomar
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    As a main stamSorc, I have lots of experience with the class, so I can add some information.

    Is the class viable for all content including score runs?

    Yes, it is.

    Will you be wanted in score run groups?

    No, not really. But the reason is not your DPS, it's on par with other classes. The reasons are two.
    1) No self buffs, debuffs. On paper it looks fine, you have your tank for debuffs, and your healer for buffs. But in reality, it's a problem. Whole trials (vAS, vCR) are design in a way you *won't* get much support from the healer, if any. Running vAS? No minor berserk for you, no orbs for you. Running vCR? No berserk for you, no major fracture on crystals in shadow realm for you. No orbs for you. It adds up. Another example: Power House achievement in HoF.
    2) No party utility. You just don't give anything to your party. Minor Fracture? Nope. Minor Sorcery? Nope. Nothing. You just don't offer anything while other classes bring something to your party.

    Sustain is hard.

    No it isn't. I run blue food with 0 heavy attacks in my rotation. How do I do that? The answer is dynamic rotation. It helps so much with your sustain, and it also increase your overall DPS. But then, it kinda destroy the argument that the rotation of stamSorcs is easy. Heh, heh. It's not.

    4-man content.

    This is a big problem. Usually, you don't have a dedicated healer. You have a tank and 3 DPS with self heal. Maybe one of the DPS has something for emergency, but that's it. In a 4-man content, your DPS is trash. So you have to use special sets (VO for sustain, Fang snake or Night Mother's gaze for more DPS, Slimecrew for berserk), while other classes have all of these built in. StamSorcs are highly dependent on external sources of buffs and debuffs, and in any 4-man content, their DPS and utility is bad compared to other classes.

    Do stamSorcs need a buff or nerf?

    No. They need more love. When people talk about buffs and nerf of classes, they usually compare DPS from highly controlled environment (skeleton parses). And for that, stamSorcs are fine, their DPS is on par with other classes. But in trials you don't always have it (especially the newer ones), and when it happens, other classes are just simply better.
    Yes.
  • Morgul667
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    I feel stamsorc are not as fun as they used to be

    They are ok and all but they have nothing except huricane
  • Morgul667
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    troomar wrote: »
    As a main stamSorc, I have lots of experience with the class, so I can add some information.

    Is the class viable for all content including score runs?

    Yes, it is.

    Will you be wanted in score run groups?

    No, not really. But the reason is not your DPS, it's on par with other classes. The reasons are two.
    1) No self buffs, debuffs. On paper it looks fine, you have your tank for debuffs, and your healer for buffs. But in reality, it's a problem. Whole trials (vAS, vCR) are design in a way you *won't* get much support from the healer, if any. Running vAS? No minor berserk for you, no orbs for you. Running vCR? No berserk for you, no major fracture on crystals in shadow realm for you. No orbs for you. It adds up. Another example: Power House achievement in HoF.
    2) No party utility. You just don't give anything to your party. Minor Fracture? Nope. Minor Sorcery? Nope. Nothing. You just don't offer anything while other classes bring something to your party.

    Sustain is hard.

    No it isn't. I run blue food with 0 heavy attacks in my rotation. How do I do that? The answer is dynamic rotation. It helps so much with your sustain, and it also increase your overall DPS. But then, it kinda destroy the argument that the rotation of stamSorcs is easy. Heh, heh. It's not.

    4-man content.

    This is a big problem. Usually, you don't have a dedicated healer. You have a tank and 3 DPS with self heal. Maybe one of the DPS has something for emergency, but that's it. In a 4-man content, your DPS is trash. So you have to use special sets (VO for sustain, Fang snake or Night Mother's gaze for more DPS, Slimecrew for berserk), while other classes have all of these built in. StamSorcs are highly dependent on external sources of buffs and debuffs, and in any 4-man content, their DPS and utility is bad compared to other classes.

    Do stamSorcs need a buff or nerf?

    No. They need more love. When people talk about buffs and nerf of classes, they usually compare DPS from highly controlled environment (skeleton parses). And for that, stamSorcs are fine, their DPS is on par with other classes. But in trials you don't always have it (especially the newer ones), and when it happens, other classes are just simply better.

    What do you calla dynamic rotation. I truely have a hard time you can sustain stamsorc without addition regen jewelry and no heavy attack? How do you manage it?
  • troomar
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    Morgul667 wrote: »
    What do you calla dynamic rotation. I truely have a hard time you can sustain stamsorc without addition regen jewelry and no heavy attack? How do you manage it?

    You still need the support from your healers to fully sustain a long fight, but what I mean by dynamic rotation? Well, when you talk about stamSorcs static rotation, you usually mean something like this:

    Endless Hail -> Caltrops -> Poison Injection -> (swap) -> Rending Slashes -> Rearming Trap -> Shrouded daggers (3-5x) -> Hurricane -> (swap) -> rinse and repeat

    This rotation has 10 seconds cycle, because it's the most reasonable time for all DoTs. You can achieve a good DPS just with this rotation, but the sustain will be tough.

    Now, if you look at all these DoTs:
    - Endless Hail - 10 second duration. vMA bow makes it stronger with every tick, so you don't want to cast it sooner than 0.5 seconds before it ends.
    - Caltrops - 12 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
    - Poison injection - 10 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
    - Rending Slashes - 9 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
    - Rearming Trap - 2x 6 seconds, but the target must not move during the fight.
    - Hurricane - 15 seconds, Progressive damage over time.

    Dynamic rotation means you recast the DoT when it ends, not earlier. So if you perform static rotation, you recast your Caltrops and Rearming trap more often than it's needed and you also lose some time from Rending Slashes. And Hurricane simply does not fit into the rotation at all.

    You can go full nuts and try to manage all these duration separately, but I do it this way:
    I always cast Endless Hail, Caltrops, and Poison injection together, because it's convenient. Rearming trap and Hurricane has their own cycle. Rending Slashes are managed as a spammable (look up the forum it works), so I use them twice when I'm on front bar, something like Rending Slashes - Shrouded Daggers - Shrouded Daggers - Rending Slashes. When I fight only 1 enemy, I use Rending Slashes only. making Rending Slashes as a part of spammable, you don't need to thing about these 9 seconds, because they are up all the time. So it leaves us with 3 independent cycles:
    10 seconds, 12 seconds, 15 seconds.

    If you try it, you will soon realize, that sometimes these cycles meet each other (Endless Hail + Hurricane). When it happens, the priority is: Endless Hail > Hurricane > Rearming Trap.

    On PC with add-ons, dynamic rotation is not that hard, but try it without add-ons :)

    To sum it up, every 60 seconds you save one rearming trap (3780 Stamina base cost), up to 2 Hurricanes (3442 base cost) and some of your spammable. Maybe it doesn't look like much, but in a long fight it makes the difference.

    Btw, stamSorc has the worst sustain of all classes, I'm just saying it's not an issue.
    Yes.
  • Morgul667
    Morgul667
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    troomar wrote: »
    Morgul667 wrote: »
    What do you calla dynamic rotation. I truely have a hard time you can sustain stamsorc without addition regen jewelry and no heavy attack? How do you manage it?

    You still need the support from your healers to fully sustain a long fight, but what I mean by dynamic rotation? Well, when you talk about stamSorcs static rotation, you usually mean something like this:

    Endless Hail -> Caltrops -> Poison Injection -> (swap) -> Rending Slashes -> Rearming Trap -> Shrouded daggers (3-5x) -> Hurricane -> (swap) -> rinse and repeat

    This rotation has 10 seconds cycle, because it's the most reasonable time for all DoTs. You can achieve a good DPS just with this rotation, but the sustain will be tough.

    Now, if you look at all these DoTs:
    - Endless Hail - 10 second duration. vMA bow makes it stronger with every tick, so you don't want to cast it sooner than 0.5 seconds before it ends.
    - Caltrops - 12 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
    - Poison injection - 10 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
    - Rending Slashes - 9 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
    - Rearming Trap - 2x 6 seconds, but the target must not move during the fight.
    - Hurricane - 15 seconds, Progressive damage over time.

    Dynamic rotation means you recast the DoT when it ends, not earlier. So if you perform static rotation, you recast your Caltrops and Rearming trap more often than it's needed and you also lose some time from Rending Slashes. And Hurricane simply does not fit into the rotation at all.

    You can go full nuts and try to manage all these duration separately, but I do it this way:
    I always cast Endless Hail, Caltrops, and Poison injection together, because it's convenient. Rearming trap and Hurricane has their own cycle. Rending Slashes are managed as a spammable (look up the forum it works), so I use them twice when I'm on front bar, something like Rending Slashes - Shrouded Daggers - Shrouded Daggers - Rending Slashes. When I fight only 1 enemy, I use Rending Slashes only. making Rending Slashes as a part of spammable, you don't need to thing about these 9 seconds, because they are up all the time. So it leaves us with 3 independent cycles:
    10 seconds, 12 seconds, 15 seconds.

    If you try it, you will soon realize, that sometimes these cycles meet each other (Endless Hail + Hurricane). When it happens, the priority is: Endless Hail > Hurricane > Rearming Trap.

    On PC with add-ons, dynamic rotation is not that hard, but try it without add-ons :)

    To sum it up, every 60 seconds you save one rearming trap (3780 Stamina base cost), up to 2 Hurricanes (3442 base cost) and some of your spammable. Maybe it doesn't look like much, but in a long fight it makes the difference.

    Btw, stamSorc has the worst sustain of all classes, I'm just saying it's not an issue.

    ok I understand now, needs a healer to sustain properly without heavy attack and adapt the cycle to the dots for restarting after they run off. and use rending as a spammable when only one ennemy

    thanks
  • Schattenfluegel
    Schattenfluegel
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    @troomar: Have you practiced this on 3 or 6 Mille Dummy? And how much DPS do you have...erm what Sets and CPs are you using on the Dummy?
    Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 8, 2019 8:01AM
    Love my Stamsorc
  • troomar
    troomar
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    @Morgul667
    Morgul667 wrote: »
    ok I understand now, needs a healer to sustain properly without heavy attack and adapt the cycle to the dots for restarting after they run off. and use rending as a spammable when only one ennemy

    thanks

    You make it sounds horrible :D But it's not really that bad. Trash fights in trials are usually short enough, so you don't need much sustain. You can also use Dark Deal between fights (not usable during fights though), so you can go from Max to Min Stamina without issues. Boss fights may be a problem when a lot of blocking, roll dodging or running is required (vHRC, vAS).

    @Schattenfluegel
    @troomar: Have you practiced this on 3 or 6 Mille Dummy? And how much DPS do you have...erm what Sets and CPs are you using on the Dummy?

    I don't practice on 3M and 6M dummies much, because I can't sustain them. My build is optimized for full party support, for real trials. If I made my build to sustain 3M dummy, I would have too much sustain in trials, which means lower DPS eventually.

    Anyway, I can sustain 3M dummy with 1 heavy attack in the rotation. I use 6/1 setup - Stormfist + Relequen (body) + Automaton (3x Robust). I always use trial setup, no CP redistribution, blue food, no cheese. I can hit 39-40k. With solo setup (Slimecrew, Relequen, Night Mother) I can hit 43k on 3M dummy. I can't sustain 6M dummy in any way, so I don't try anything on that. On the party dummy (it's 56M I guess) I hit 63-68k, zero heavy attacks. It depends a lot on proper uptimes from healers. Again, it's the same setup I use in trials (*), no cheese, no shenanigans.

    (*) It's not really accurate, because I use different skill setup and different sets for every boss fight in a trial, sometimes even different setups for trash fights if it helps. My basic setup is Stormfist, Vicious Ophidian (5x body), Automaton front bar (2x daggers). For some fights I use Relequen instead of VO, Slimecrew instead of Stormfist. I don't change Automaton set ever on my front bar, but I use different traits on jewelries. 3x Robust as basic setup. 3x Bloodthirsty for bosses with hard final stages (vMoL, vAS, vCR etc). I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text :)).
    Edited by troomar on January 8, 2019 5:33PM
    Yes.
  • Agenericname
    Agenericname
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    troomar wrote: »
    @Morgul667
    Morgul667 wrote: »
    ok I understand now, needs a healer to sustain properly without heavy attack and adapt the cycle to the dots for restarting after they run off. and use rending as a spammable when only one ennemy

    thanks

    You make it sounds horrible :D But it's not really that bad. Trash fights in trials are usually short enough, so you don't need much sustain. You can also use Dark Deal between fights (not usable during fights though), so you can go from Max to Min Stamina without issues. Boss fights may be a problem when a lot of blocking, roll dodging or running is required (vHRC, vAS).

    @Schattenfluegel
    @troomar: Have you practiced this on 3 or 6 Mille Dummy? And how much DPS do you have...erm what Sets and CPs are you using on the Dummy?

    I don't practice on 3M and 6M dummies much, because I can't sustain them. My build is optimized for full party support, for real trials. If I made my build to sustain 3M dummy, I would have too much sustain in trials, which means lower DPS eventually.

    Anyway, I can sustain 3M dummy with 1 heavy attack in the rotation. I use 6/1 setup - Stormfist + Relequen (body) + Automaton (3x Robust). I always use trial setup, no CP redistribution, blue food, no cheese. I can hit 39-40k. With solo setup (Slimecrew, Relequen, Night Mother) I can hit 43k on 3M dummy. I can't sustain 6M dummy in any way, so I don't try anything on that. On the party dummy (it's 56M I guess) I hit 63-68k, zero heavy attacks. It depends a lot on proper uptimes from healers. Again, it's the same setup I use in trials (*), no cheese, no shenanigans.

    (*) It's not really accurate, because I use different skill setup and different sets for every boss fight in a trial, sometimes even different setups for trash fights if it helps. My basic setup is Stormfist, Vicious Ophidian (5x body), Automaton front bar (2x daggers). For some fights I use Relequen instead of VO, Slimecrew instead of Stormfist. I don't change Automaton set ever on my front bar, but I use different traits on jewelries. 3x Robust as basic setup. 3x Bloodthirsty for bosses with hard final stages (vMoL, vAS, vCR etc). I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text :)).

    Why? Now I'm curious.

  • BuddyAces
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    Yes they are viable. I dunno if score pushing true endgame groups are running em or not but they kick arse.

    Their ability to solo anything is unsurpassed due to hurricane and surge. 2h is just as viable as dw. I hate the psijic skill ability so I run shrouded daggers instead which works better if you have to get out of melee range. Unless you're after the very best dps you can pull I'll always recommend a stam sorc. Warning though, they have horrendous sustain compared to everyone else. The upside is, outside of certain trials, everything will be dead before you run into too many sustain issues.
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866

    I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd
  • MashmalloMan
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    @troomar To say endless hail is 10 seconds is sort of inacurate, yes the damage is 10 seconds long, but if you notice it takes about 1.5 seconds after pressing the skill for the damage to start.

    If you use something like srendar buff timers, you can see that it lasts almost just as long as razor caltrops if not the same amount of time.

    It's the same reason you need to cast 3 abilities on back back with a VMA bow to actually get the VMA proc because the 10 second damage portion of the ability needs to begin before you bar swap, but it takes awhile to actually start.

    If you do [endless hail -> light attack -> razor caltrops -> bar swap] quick enough you actually won't get the VMA extra dmg of the bow. A lot of times in trash fights where I don't even need poison injection I will either just cast it or wait long enough to bar swap and save the stam.

    I honestly just do 12 second rotations with every skill except hurricane, it's hard to be dynamic w/ poison injection because you need to cast 3 abilities on the back bar for endless everytime.

    That leaves rearming trap which lasts 12 seconds and rending slashes which like you said can be good for single target spammable or casting it at the beginning than the end of your front bar to save stam and keep high uptime. Haven't tried this yet actually :P Good idea.
    troomar wrote: »
    I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text :)).

    Curious about this 1. You must use infused on your VMA bow?

    A lot of builds are saying to switch to dual infused front bar, but I still like nirn main hand because I like being stronger against trash instead of just single target. That's mainly a preference and the dps difference isn't huge.

    I don't use AY either. Veiled <3
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • Elwendryll
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    troomar wrote: »
    I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text :)).

    I want to read a wall of text.
    I don't use AY either. Veiled <3

    Same here :3

    Edited by Elwendryll on January 8, 2019 7:31PM
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • troomar
    troomar
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    It's the same reason you need to cast 3 abilities on back back with a VMA bow to actually get the VMA proc because the 10 second damage portion of the ability needs to begin before you bar swap, but it takes awhile to actually start.

    That's a good point, I didn't even notice :)
    troomar wrote: »
    I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text :)).

    Curious about this 1. You must use infused on your VMA bow?

    It was meant as a jewelry trait. All my weapons are infused. Enchantments are just too powerful.
    Btw. Poison / Disease / Absorb Stamina gives better damage for solo play, while Poison / Weapon Damage / Absorb Stamina gives much better results for party play.
    Elwendryll wrote: »
    I want to read a wall of text.

    I should have expected that, right? :D

    Well, this is highly subjective and I'm in no way saying that Automaton is better than Advancing Yokeda. If you test both sets on dummies, Advancing Yokeda gives you like ~1k more DPS. The problem is, that you have to keep the buff on for it to be better. And in raids it isn't always the case. For me, the main problem is that it really complicates the rotation. To be effective with this set, you must always cast maximum of 3 skills on your back bar, and then you have to attack on your front bar.
    1) For example when my ultimate (ballista) is about to be ready, I have to use it like (something on front bar) -> (swap) -> ballista -> (swap) -> (continue with front bar) -> (swap) -> (back bar DoTs). This absolutely breaks the rotation and further complicates this whole dynamic thing.
    2) You are not always able to attack something when on front bar. With Automaton? Apply DoTs, swap and watch the buff :)
    Keeping Relequen up is pain in the ass. Keeping Relequen and Yokeda up is obnoxious. Keeping Relequen, Yokeda, and performing dynamic rotations is madness, it's not fun.

    Edited by troomar on January 8, 2019 9:46PM
    Yes.
  • troomar
    troomar
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    double post
    Edited by troomar on January 8, 2019 9:45PM
    Yes.
  • MashmalloMan
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    @troomar if you don't like AY because of that reason, you should try veiled heritance, you lose 1 bonus to physical resistance but you gain high effective uptime.

    In a perfect 12 second rotation you must spend at least 3-4 seconds on your back bar. That leaves you with 25-33% on your back bar or 75-66% uptime on automaton. Not to mention you miss out on dmg that could buff poison injection.

    Now think about fights where you need to stay on your back bar due to being at range, thats even more damage loss.

    ---
    Side note: I'm now wondering if I can go back to Ravager. Without relequen as melee dmg it really took a hit on uptime. That being said, finding out online that deadly cloak and rending can proc it.. I'm thinking about dropping shrouded daggers and using deadly cloak and rending as my spammable instead. I will get better mitigation and ravager is an amazing set that with enough uptime can beat both veiled, ay and automaton, but I'll have to test it.

    Before the relequen changes I could get 70-80% uptime, then it dropped to 40-50%. I never tried deadly cloak/rending.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 8, 2019 10:51PM
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • BuddyAces
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    @troomar if you don't like AY because of that reason, you should try veiled heritance, you lose 1 bonus to physical resistance but you gain high effective uptime.

    In a perfect 12 second rotation you must spend at least 3-4 seconds on your back bar. That leaves you with 25-33% on your back bar or 75-66% uptime on automaton. Not to mention you miss out on dmg that could buff poison injection.

    Now think about fights where you need to stay on your back bar due to being at range, thats even more damage loss.

    ---
    Side note: I'm now wondering if I can go back to Ravager. Without relequen as melee dmg it really took a hit on uptime. That being said, finding out online that deadly cloak and rending can proc it.. I'm thinking about dropping shrouded daggers and using deadly cloak and rending as my spammable instead. I will get better mitigation and ravager is an amazing set that with enough uptime can beat both veiled, ay and automaton, but I'll have to test it.

    Before the relequen changes I could get 70-80% uptime, then it dropped to 40-50%. I never tried deadly cloak/rending.

    Honestly at this point I'd just use whatever ones toon is currently wearing. Changes are coming soon.
    They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866

    I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd
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