I have a few questions about stamina sorcerer.Is this build good for end game hard content like vet trial/vet dungeon etc? What people think about stam sorc in group on trials? I know most wanted is stamblade, but i don't like this build.It is possible to have high possition in leaderboard playing stam sorc? What big is diffrence in dps between stam sorc and for example stamblade?
It is possible to have high possition in leaderboard playing stam sorc?
What big is diffrence in dps between stam sorc and for example stamblade?
As a main stamSorc, I have lots of experience with the class, so I can add some information.
Is the class viable for all content including score runs?
Yes, it is.
Will you be wanted in score run groups?
No, not really. But the reason is not your DPS, it's on par with other classes. The reasons are two.
1) No self buffs, debuffs. On paper it looks fine, you have your tank for debuffs, and your healer for buffs. But in reality, it's a problem. Whole trials (vAS, vCR) are design in a way you *won't* get much support from the healer, if any. Running vAS? No minor berserk for you, no orbs for you. Running vCR? No berserk for you, no major fracture on crystals in shadow realm for you. No orbs for you. It adds up. Another example: Power House achievement in HoF.
2) No party utility. You just don't give anything to your party. Minor Fracture? Nope. Minor Sorcery? Nope. Nothing. You just don't offer anything while other classes bring something to your party.
Sustain is hard.
No it isn't. I run blue food with 0 heavy attacks in my rotation. How do I do that? The answer is dynamic rotation. It helps so much with your sustain, and it also increase your overall DPS. But then, it kinda destroy the argument that the rotation of stamSorcs is easy. Heh, heh. It's not.
4-man content.
This is a big problem. Usually, you don't have a dedicated healer. You have a tank and 3 DPS with self heal. Maybe one of the DPS has something for emergency, but that's it. In a 4-man content, your DPS is trash. So you have to use special sets (VO for sustain, Fang snake or Night Mother's gaze for more DPS, Slimecrew for berserk), while other classes have all of these built in. StamSorcs are highly dependent on external sources of buffs and debuffs, and in any 4-man content, their DPS and utility is bad compared to other classes.
Do stamSorcs need a buff or nerf?
No. They need more love. When people talk about buffs and nerf of classes, they usually compare DPS from highly controlled environment (skeleton parses). And for that, stamSorcs are fine, their DPS is on par with other classes. But in trials you don't always have it (especially the newer ones), and when it happens, other classes are just simply better.
What do you calla dynamic rotation. I truely have a hard time you can sustain stamsorc without addition regen jewelry and no heavy attack? How do you manage it?
What do you calla dynamic rotation. I truely have a hard time you can sustain stamsorc without addition regen jewelry and no heavy attack? How do you manage it?
You still need the support from your healers to fully sustain a long fight, but what I mean by dynamic rotation? Well, when you talk about stamSorcs static rotation, you usually mean something like this:
Endless Hail -> Caltrops -> Poison Injection -> (swap) -> Rending Slashes -> Rearming Trap -> Shrouded daggers (3-5x) -> Hurricane -> (swap) -> rinse and repeat
This rotation has 10 seconds cycle, because it's the most reasonable time for all DoTs. You can achieve a good DPS just with this rotation, but the sustain will be tough.
Now, if you look at all these DoTs:
- Endless Hail - 10 second duration. vMA bow makes it stronger with every tick, so you don't want to cast it sooner than 0.5 seconds before it ends.
- Caltrops - 12 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
- Poison injection - 10 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
- Rending Slashes - 9 seconds duration. Static damage over time.
- Rearming Trap - 2x 6 seconds, but the target must not move during the fight.
- Hurricane - 15 seconds, Progressive damage over time.
Dynamic rotation means you recast the DoT when it ends, not earlier. So if you perform static rotation, you recast your Caltrops and Rearming trap more often than it's needed and you also lose some time from Rending Slashes. And Hurricane simply does not fit into the rotation at all.
You can go full nuts and try to manage all these duration separately, but I do it this way:
I always cast Endless Hail, Caltrops, and Poison injection together, because it's convenient. Rearming trap and Hurricane has their own cycle. Rending Slashes are managed as a spammable (look up the forum it works), so I use them twice when I'm on front bar, something like Rending Slashes - Shrouded Daggers - Shrouded Daggers - Rending Slashes. When I fight only 1 enemy, I use Rending Slashes only. making Rending Slashes as a part of spammable, you don't need to thing about these 9 seconds, because they are up all the time. So it leaves us with 3 independent cycles:
10 seconds, 12 seconds, 15 seconds.
If you try it, you will soon realize, that sometimes these cycles meet each other (Endless Hail + Hurricane). When it happens, the priority is: Endless Hail > Hurricane > Rearming Trap.
On PC with add-ons, dynamic rotation is not that hard, but try it without add-ons
To sum it up, every 60 seconds you save one rearming trap (3780 Stamina base cost), up to 2 Hurricanes (3442 base cost) and some of your spammable. Maybe it doesn't look like much, but in a long fight it makes the difference.
Btw, stamSorc has the worst sustain of all classes, I'm just saying it's not an issue.
ok I understand now, needs a healer to sustain properly without heavy attack and adapt the cycle to the dots for restarting after they run off. and use rending as a spammable when only one ennemy
thanks
Schattenfluegel wrote: »@troomar: Have you practiced this on 3 or 6 Mille Dummy? And how much DPS do you have...erm what Sets and CPs are you using on the Dummy?
@Morgul667ok I understand now, needs a healer to sustain properly without heavy attack and adapt the cycle to the dots for restarting after they run off. and use rending as a spammable when only one ennemy
thanks
You make it sounds horribleBut it's not really that bad. Trash fights in trials are usually short enough, so you don't need much sustain. You can also use Dark Deal between fights (not usable during fights though), so you can go from Max to Min Stamina without issues. Boss fights may be a problem when a lot of blocking, roll dodging or running is required (vHRC, vAS).
@SchattenfluegelSchattenfluegel wrote: »@troomar: Have you practiced this on 3 or 6 Mille Dummy? And how much DPS do you have...erm what Sets and CPs are you using on the Dummy?
I don't practice on 3M and 6M dummies much, because I can't sustain them. My build is optimized for full party support, for real trials. If I made my build to sustain 3M dummy, I would have too much sustain in trials, which means lower DPS eventually.
Anyway, I can sustain 3M dummy with 1 heavy attack in the rotation. I use 6/1 setup - Stormfist + Relequen (body) + Automaton (3x Robust). I always use trial setup, no CP redistribution, blue food, no cheese. I can hit 39-40k. With solo setup (Slimecrew, Relequen, Night Mother) I can hit 43k on 3M dummy. I can't sustain 6M dummy in any way, so I don't try anything on that. On the party dummy (it's 56M I guess) I hit 63-68k, zero heavy attacks. It depends a lot on proper uptimes from healers. Again, it's the same setup I use in trials (*), no cheese, no shenanigans.
(*) It's not really accurate, because I use different skill setup and different sets for every boss fight in a trial, sometimes even different setups for trash fights if it helps. My basic setup is Stormfist, Vicious Ophidian (5x body), Automaton front bar (2x daggers). For some fights I use Relequen instead of VO, Slimecrew instead of Stormfist. I don't change Automaton set ever on my front bar, but I use different traits on jewelries. 3x Robust as basic setup. 3x Bloodthirsty for bosses with hard final stages (vMoL, vAS, vCR etc). I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text).
I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text).
I don't use Infused trait, and I don't use Advancing Yokeda set ever (you can ask me why if you want to read another wall of text).
Marshall1289 wrote: »I don't use AY either. Veiled
Marshall1289 wrote: »It's the same reason you need to cast 3 abilities on back back with a VMA bow to actually get the VMA proc because the 10 second damage portion of the ability needs to begin before you bar swap, but it takes awhile to actually start.
Marshall1289 wrote: »
Elwendryll wrote: »I want to read a wall of text.
Marshall1289 wrote: »@troomar if you don't like AY because of that reason, you should try veiled heritance, you lose 1 bonus to physical resistance but you gain high effective uptime.
In a perfect 12 second rotation you must spend at least 3-4 seconds on your back bar. That leaves you with 25-33% on your back bar or 75-66% uptime on automaton. Not to mention you miss out on dmg that could buff poison injection.
Now think about fights where you need to stay on your back bar due to being at range, thats even more damage loss.
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Side note: I'm now wondering if I can go back to Ravager. Without relequen as melee dmg it really took a hit on uptime. That being said, finding out online that deadly cloak and rending can proc it.. I'm thinking about dropping shrouded daggers and using deadly cloak and rending as my spammable instead. I will get better mitigation and ravager is an amazing set that with enough uptime can beat both veiled, ay and automaton, but I'll have to test it.
Before the relequen changes I could get 70-80% uptime, then it dropped to 40-50%. I never tried deadly cloak/rending.