dazee wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Still man, even with trolls. You said experienced players. Experienced player would have to be standing still not even fighting back to die. It's just not happening. Trolls aren't even eating through my glass cannon builds when i forget food buffs to the point of being dangerous.

Yea an experienced player wont die to one or even 5 trolls. Not if theyre fighting back. I was responding to the people who were saying its so easy mobs literally cannot kill you. as in they dont out dps your regen.

Overland isn't supposed to be challenging. Could we use more challenging optional content like VMA, VDSA, and such? sure! but leave overland alone. it's already Working as Intended.

Why isn't overland supposed to be challenging? Is it just for story time? 50 zones set aside for new player learning purposes? safe garden areas for alchemy mats? I've heard numerous people say this throughout the years and I'm curious as to why a fantasy world above the dungeons and crypts and caves has to be such a total safe space. In a fantasy world don't you think some of the nastier evils could have made it to the surface? That a camp of bandits might have a tougher MFer than goon 1 and 2 sitting around the fire? I personally would not like to see all of overland content strengthened, but damn sprinkle in a little fun and excitement so the zones aren't all same O same O.

There is absolutely no reason why they can not sprinkle in some harder content in these zones. All of you old MMO players remember the old games. You''d have clumps of regular mobs all over and then a group or so might have an elite lvl mob nestled in there. Something when you were pulling mobs and if you were weren't paying attention all of a sudden you were like "Oh sh&t" and you either ran or you survived and learned something about yourself (that your cajones were bigger than you thought). The only time I had this feeling was the first time I entered Imperial City for Telvar stones and ran into the roaming elites in there as I got waylaid by one during an attack on a group of mobs. How about roaming wandering elite level mobs or in hard to reach areas of the maps where the potential to die from deeper exploration was there. Hell even WoW had that! The one when you were traveling, opened your map, and you heard the roar only to close the map to Sir Charface the Mad tearing into you. Just something to get the blood pumping every once in a while. I don't give a damn about having better rewards, just mix it up a bit in zones. Throw in some named bandit and reachman generals, etc. Give me a reason when I make a new character to bring a friend along. My grandson made a new character the other day and I decided to join him hitting delves. Talk about a snooze-fest.

Another thing they could do possibly is go back and tweak some of the old zone's mobs AI to perform more CC, drink healing pots, etc. I know in Summerset it seems like the mobs have more CC and that in itself makes things abit more challenging and fun. Also, beef up the warriors. I can pull a group of 3 mobs, one sword N board, one rogue and one caster. They all die at the same time to Aoe. That plate mail and shield didn't help that poor *** any more than the robes of the caster. He didn't even use the shield. At least the rogue tries to somersault over me trying to live. Maybe this is the route to increase difficulty some.

Vhozek wrote: »

Have you ever faced off against a single enemy NPC and just stood there without attacking it? Try it out. You'll soon notice that they swing at you once every 2 seconds, dealing damage that you will surely recover by half in between each attack. Now, I know what you're thinking "but if they group up it adds up". I agree with you, but how many times do you see overworld enemies grouping up against you? In my opinion, it seems like the fight only becomes fair when they're a group of about 4 or 5 and I'm talking about this while having no CP allocated by the way. Explorers like me are usually looking for new areas to explore and loot, but are disappointed to find out there's a severe scarcity for delves while the overworld enemies provide a snoozing time for a fight. You could go fight a world boss, sure, but it just becomes a game of rotation and respawns not everyone will agree to repeat over and over again, but solo or couples (2) will most likely. The problem is that 2 people will not defeat a world boss and if they do, they're in the vast minority of people.

TL;DR
Ideas:
1. Make overworld enemies more difficult the further away they are located from a town or city.
2. Scale difficulty depending on how many enemies are fighting you.
3. Add mini bosses similar to public dungeon bosses to the overworld to balance out the extremities of braindead easy enemies and overly difficult world bosses.
4. Add more random Daedra spawns with increased enemies.
5. Add groups of enemies or mini bosses in front of the entrance to delves, public dungeons, and group dungeons.

overworld is hard enough, try do solo trial you will be nailed.

Zardayne wrote: »

Good luck. I got into this debate long ago and finally decided to hang up any resistance. I came to the conclusion most people who play ESO do not want a challenge and are perfectly fine picking berries for their play time. As you've seen and you will continue to see for years to come is the same canned responses such as remove all cp, quest naked, don't eat food, try your lover's blindfold when you play, etc. You'll also be hit with the harder content is in dungeon and then trials and you are expected to run those ad nauseam until the next expansion which will give you one or two more. You will never win here. Most believe 80% of the games content which is overland, is only for new players learning and so will the next 6 expansions of the same content.

My advice to you is fight the lag and pvp, either Cyrodiil or BGs. It's the only place you will get a challenge and where every fight is different. There will instantly be no more stand still and play dps whackamole and learn a few dungeon mechanics and you've mastered it. You will pressed to become your very best and even then you will actually die. You will also find theory crafting a lot more enjoyable as it will open up more sets you can use. That's my 2 silvers for what it's worth. I too wish Overland had some challenging moments but you're not going to find it here unfortunately.

I'm not ready for PVP.
I'm not ready for PVP in the sense that I cannot enjoy it. It's a time full of ability spams, lag, and walking. If I want a good PVP experience I would play another game, so I focus my effort to think of solutions on PVE only to make it a bit more dynamic.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Remove your CP, take off all your skill points and your gold armor, use only rubbish found head into even a delve and enjoy your surprise prostate exam.

Nope. That doesn't work. That is actually how I thought about this conversation to begin with. I was standing in front of enemies and did several tests for nearly 2 hours.

It would be nice to have some newer zones offer greater challenge for experienced players.
Not VMA challenge but something more than they are.

I do not think they should change the base game zones except as you go from zone 1 to 5 in a faction, the content should get progressively harder like it used to. Not a huge difference mind you but something matching the greater power and experience your character is getting. Yes I know we are all "battleleveled" but if you are upgrading gear, especially if youre making sets for them and adding skills it makes a difference You are getting more powerful and I dont think the battleleveling you lose as you gain levels makes up for it entirely.

I wish they had made the DLCs and chapters continuing zones, not starter areas. We have enough starter areas and it mostly just seems to confuse new players when they start in Summerset or Morrowind. New players jumping into Craglorn also seems to be confusing when they get told its an "end game zone"

Having a toggle to choose difficulty in instanced quest lines would be a nice idea.
Also for delves would be a great idea, but they would have to be instanced, which most of them arent.
They should still allow for groups if people choose to do that.

I'm actually entirely in favor of increasing overland difficulty and having it scale to the user, not just by level but by gear quality and skill points earned/allocated.

I am all for a toggle, making the overland content more difficult.

I am against increasing the difficulty for everyone. You see, for some players it is difficult enough and for some it may even feel too difficult. As others have already said, not everyone is an experienced veteran.

Toggle to make the game difficult if you want it, yes. Ruining the game for everyone else, no. Simple.

dazee wrote: »

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I recently made a new character and didn't put in CP. With no gear other than the prophet's inferno I was given through leveling up and the random pieces of mixed gear I found laying through the game, I easily 2 hit most overland ads. The only thing that was remotely difficult was soloing a world boss before unlocking my second skill bar where I had to just run in circles using heavy attacks and dots because my sustain was so bad that I couldn't actually fight it.

Tldr; Overland content is actually brain dead regardless of if you are experienced or if you just bought the game.

explain how no new player I've ever met has complained about it being too easy.


The "Make it harder" crowd along with the PVP nerf crowd are the 2 biggest things ZoS needs to ignore to keep the game fun.

Do vet trials or something. if you find those too easy perhaps its time for another game.

I'm not sure who you play with. I've had several IRL friends as well as lower level players I've met (made gear for, etc) who have later quit the game because it was too easy and not very engaging.

You'll see that a lot of players who consider vet trials easy (myself included) stay on ESO because the combat system in ESO is far greater than any other mmo out there. We just kinda hope it gets harder/wait for new trials. Frankly you could make overland more difficult and I still wouldn't do it.

And experience has little to do with steamrolling overland content. Sure, it helps. But it's not a deciding factor by any means. I steamrolled content with a bow and resto staff on a magplar when I first started until I wondered into Craglorn at cp10 and got stomped to death by wasps. You can basically sleepwalk through any solo content outside maybe vMA (but still definitely nMA) by simply using 2 ground dots, a ST dot, and a spammable attack with basically any weapon and any gear. If you understand how damage dealing works in most mmos, it's pretty simple to just be like ok I'll use these things and bam everything dies in like 3 seconds.

Linaleah wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I have a side account, that has no cp on it yet. it has no max level characters at all. I have more then once come back to my character's dead body, because I thought I afked in a safe spot but didn't realise that random spider patrols through it.

I have also come back to my main who has max cp - dead because I afked in a wrong spot for a minute.

so no, OP I have not experienced what you describe. moreover. again bringing up that no cp side account. I'm pretty well familiar with the game at this point. I play a class that I'm comfortable with. and there are times where I have to frantically self heal or die.

no. I do not think overland needs to be made more difficult.

Your char died because you went afk for minutes, and somehow that equals overland not being brain dead easy?

What’s next, getting mats is too hard because they don’t fill up your inventory passively?

OP claimed that you can let a mob wail on you and not die. I have experienced otherwise. moreover I have also described when in active combat I had rough moments, while having enough experience not to die. newer players do die. heck, I see it happen a fair bit, mostly when doing crafting surveys and not always manage to get there in time to help before they die.

please. next time READ what I said instead of going directly to strawman arguments

There's a difference between going completely afk and having mobs beating on you while you're there. OP most definitely meant that you can basically vigor once then stand there and you passively out heal any incoming damage. Reading and comprehending are significantly different.

JadonSky wrote: »

Overland enemy's being easy to kill doesn't really bother me since they are all trash mob anyways. I just wish the bosses you have to fight in the quest were a little more difficult. I hate in the story quest its like "Yeah im about to fight a vampire lord" oh he only has 120k health and I killed him in 2 seconds.

I don't see why they can't increase the health to some of the quest bosses to the 500k-1 million health range. Then add some mechanics to them but still have the same damage output. I mean some of the quest bosses already have mechanics but you kill them so fast they aren't really needed.

For example when you fight Faolchu in the DC main quest line. You learn you have to use fire to hurt him so NPC randomly shoot fire arrows in. But you can already do enough damage to him without that mechanic it kinda makes it feel pointless. Now if you gave Faulchu 1mil health but still same damage output it makes to fight seem more meaningful and like you area actually fighting an NPC that everyone in the story line says is the most powerful werewolf.

Or make some attacks that can almost one-shot you get in a protective zone and every other attack is normal damage output. So many things they could do to make it more interesting but still not increasing difficulty i feel like just by adding a few mechanics and increasing the health so it actually feel likes a little bit of a fight instead of instant killing them all the time.

Pretty much this

JadonSky wrote: »

Overland enemy's being easy to kill doesn't really bother me since they are all trash mob anyways. I just wish the bosses you have to fight in the quest were a little more difficult. I hate in the story quest its like "Yeah im about to fight a vampire lord" oh he only has 120k health and I killed him in 2 seconds.

I don't see why they can't increase the health to some of the quest bosses to the 500k-1 million health range. Then add some mechanics to them but still have the same damage output. I mean some of the quest bosses already have mechanics but you kill them so fast they aren't really needed.

For example when you fight Faolchu in the DC main quest line. You learn you have to use fire to hurt him so NPC randomly shoot fire arrows in. But you can already do enough damage to him without that mechanic it kinda makes it feel pointless. Now if you gave Faulchu 1mil health but still same damage output it makes to fight seem more meaningful and like you area actually fighting an NPC that everyone in the story line says is the most powerful werewolf.

Or make some attacks that can almost one-shot you get in a protective zone and every other attack is normal damage output. So many things they could do to make it more interesting but still not increasing difficulty i feel like just by adding a few mechanics and increasing the health so it actually feel likes a little bit of a fight instead of instant killing them all the time.

increasing health may not seem like much to you, but for someone with lower damage, it turns a fight into an unbearable slog. one shot mechanics suck suck SUCK. especially if you are playing with terrible latency.

selectable (aka optional) difficulty for instanced quests? yes. overall increase of difficulty? heck. no.

@Linaleah
It depends on how ZOS would handle the toggle. I'm pretty sure the coding would be able to tell who had a toggle on and who didn't, in order to scale combat accordingly, just like how the scaling can tell what level you are (or if you're CP and no longer qualify for the scaling) to adjust stuff accordingly. Then again this is ZOS and they tend to act in extremes, so who could even say how something like this would work, even if we know how it should. We'll probably never see it regardless, but I like to think it would be easier to code/program than others might believe.

Also, I took the liberty of doing a test for everyone claiming an overland mob can't out-DPS someone's HP regen.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=I7hIdqP62xk&feature=youtu.be

As you can see, it's VERY possible for someone with low resistances/HP regen (aka probably most chars that aren't running some sort of tank setup) to have their health steadily cut down by just ONE overland enemy. You see that Vigor negates the damage yeah, but only for a few seconds. It's still pretty easy to get yourself into an 'oheck' moment and die when fighting against a bunch of mobs when you're on a squishy character.

EDIT: Tmw you can't figure out how to get a video popped into a response so you don't have to follow a link to Youtube x__x. I'm a special kind of special today it seems.

mocap wrote: »

simple personal debuf via scroll, altar, whatever:
+50-75% incoming damage
50-75% outgoing damage reduced

and pls, don't tell me that this is hard to code )

I'm still not sure this would actually be used. There's no benefits to players that do it and the enemies just become bullet sponges, taking longer to kill. That's not really a more difficult challenge, just more tedious.