Please increase overworld difficulty (slightly). Ideas inside. TL;DR the first text wall if you want

Vhozek

Have you ever faced off against a single enemy NPC and just stood there without attacking it? Try it out. You'll soon notice that they swing at you once every 2 seconds, dealing damage that you will surely recover by half in between each attack. Now, I know what you're thinking "but if they group up it adds up". I agree with you, but how many times do you see overworld enemies grouping up against you? In my opinion, it seems like the fight only becomes fair when they're a group of about 4 or 5 and I'm talking about this while having no CP allocated by the way. Explorers like me are usually looking for new areas to explore and loot, but are disappointed to find out there's a severe scarcity for delves while the overworld enemies provide a snoozing time for a fight. You could go fight a world boss, sure, but it just becomes a game of rotation and respawns not everyone will agree to repeat over and over again, but solo or couples (2) will most likely. The problem is that 2 people will not defeat a world boss and if they do, they're in the vast minority of people.

Note: I am not talking about the difficulty for high level characters but for low to medium levels. It's completely understandable for someone near level 50 or fully leveled to be able to clear the overworld with ease.

TL;DR
Ideas:
1. Make overworld enemies more difficult the further away they are located from a town or city.
2. Scale difficulty depending on how many enemies are fighting you.
3. Add mini bosses similar to public dungeon bosses to the overworld to balance out the extremities of braindead easy enemies and overly difficult world bosses.
4. Add more random Daedra spawns with increased enemies.
5. Add groups of enemies or mini bosses in front of the entrance to delves, public dungeons, and group dungeons.

Arunei

Difficulty in this game can be really subjective. What's easy for one person might be really hard for another, especially people who are new to the game and haven't gotten down the combat system and stuff. Instead of directly increasing the difficulty of any PvE content, I'd rather see something like a toggle implemented. Turning it on puts you in like a 'hard mode' setting where all the mobs hit harder, have different strategies (maybe it could mix up boss strategies too for dungeons and stuff), maybe it disables or halves your CP or reduces their effectiveness, stuff like that.

That way people who want more of a challenge can get, but people new to the game or not looking to otherwise push themselves have the ability to keep it easier if they like.

EphemeraCrawford

Leave overland alone. There are instanced areas and activities if you want personal challenges. Overland isn't just for fighting, there is also gathering and treasure hunting and fishing going on.

Colecovision

I'd love it, but it needs to have interesting mechanics. It can't be the exact same everything with slightly buffed stats. Since they have never done that for anything and we are stuck with it, I say don't buff stats.

I'm so bored with it, I actually wish they would just remove all resistance so that everything is a one shot. As it is I generally have to throw shrouded daggers twice and on a rare occasion three times. I want it now!

Oh, and if your Khajiit like me, give the scratch post a try. You start up deadly cloak and then lean backwards into overland enemies. Then you scratch post them to death.

Vhozek

EphemeraCrawford wrote: »

Leave overland alone. There are instanced areas and activities if you want personal challenges. Overland isn't just for fighting, there is also gathering and treasure hunting and fishing going on.

There are plenty of spots to get your fish and gathering loot too. Vast majority of these are even away from enemies.

Vrienda

Please don't.

starkerealm

I'll stick this one out here again. Overland mobs should unlock additional moves based on the level/CP of the player they're aggroed to. The higher level/CP you are, the more vicious they are.

Goobertron

Vhozek wrote: »

EphemeraCrawford wrote: »

Leave overland alone. There are instanced areas and activities if you want personal challenges. Overland isn't just for fighting, there is also gathering and treasure hunting and fishing going on.

There are plenty of spots to get your fish and gathering loot too. Vast majority of these are even away from enemies.

But many aren't - let's not start limiting where we can go to fish and gather especially since not all Fish Achievement Requirements live in all areas.

Vhozek

Goobertron wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

EphemeraCrawford wrote: »

Leave overland alone. There are instanced areas and activities if you want personal challenges. Overland isn't just for fighting, there is also gathering and treasure hunting and fishing going on.

There are plenty of spots to get your fish and gathering loot too. Vast majority of these are even away from enemies.

But many aren't - let's not start limiting where we can go to fish and gather especially since not all Fish Achievement Requirements live in all areas.

Nobody is trying to limit where you can go fish or gather. You should know how easy it is to avoid enemies in this game. Running past them alerts them for a second and then they're back to ignoring you. On top of that, I don't see ANY fishing spots where there are even enemies and places to gather are rarely even guarded by enemies since there's always an abundance of that item to gather in that same area.

RebornV3x

Normal overworld NPCs could be slightly bit harder delve and public dungeon boss need to be harder and Dolmens should be as hard as the Geysers in Summerset are

Apoxsee

OP... just don’t use CP or reduce your CP, BOOM, overland stuff is harder. You have the power already.

Vhozek

Apoxsee wrote: »

OP... just don’t use CP or reduce your CP, BOOM, overland stuff is harder. You have the power already.

Oh yeah, let me just no-life to reach max level so I don't use what I got out of it.

Jhalin

Apoxsee wrote: »

OP... just don’t use CP or reduce your CP, BOOM, overland stuff is harder. You have the power already.

That’s just plain untrue, the overland mobs don’t provide any threat no matter what you do. I have a lvl10 toon on the EU server and nothing is a challenge except world bosses at the start, and even then if you have a self heal on a single target boss then it stops being a challenge and just requires you move out of red and block every so often

Even in lvl 1 gear they barely leave a scratch. You can sit still and light attack them to death in a few hits while getting barely a fraction of your hp down

Tandor

As things stand: Experienced players complain that it's all too easy. "I've disabled CPs, stripped naked, and still I can one-shot a group of DLC world bosses".

If you raise difficulty levels: Experienced players will complain that it's too hard. "I've got a meta build with BIS gear, I've defeated Molag Bal, I've allocated a gazillion CPs and now I can't one-shot a mud crab".

The fact is that you can't please everyone all the time. What you can do is offer differing levels of challenge throughout the game. No level 1 player is expected to find veteran trials easy, and no elite veteran should expect to find overland content hard.

DjMuscleboy02

I recently made a new character and didn't put in CP. With no gear other than the prophet's inferno I was given through leveling up and the random pieces of mixed gear I found laying through the game, I easily 2 hit most overland ads. The only thing that was remotely difficult was soloing a world boss before unlocking my second skill bar where I had to just run in circles using heavy attacks and dots because my sustain was so bad that I couldn't actually fight it.

Tldr; Overland content is actually brain dead regardless of if you are experienced or if you just bought the game.

dazee

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I recently made a new character and didn't put in CP. With no gear other than the prophet's inferno I was given through leveling up and the random pieces of mixed gear I found laying through the game, I easily 2 hit most overland ads. The only thing that was remotely difficult was soloing a world boss before unlocking my second skill bar where I had to just run in circles using heavy attacks and dots because my sustain was so bad that I couldn't actually fight it.

Tldr; Overland content is actually brain dead regardless of if you are experienced or if you just bought the game.

explain how no new player I've ever met has complained about it being too easy.


The "Make it harder" crowd along with the PVP nerf crowd are the 2 biggest things ZoS needs to ignore to keep the game fun.

Do vet trials or something. if you find those too easy perhaps its time for another game.

heaven13

For the experienced player who creates a new alt, regardless of whether you assign CP or not...you are leveled up so of course everything is going to seem easy. As you level up, the handicap you are given is diminished until you hit cp160 when it's removed entirely.

Of course, there's also the fact that experienced players are still going to find content easy even if they remove/never equip CP. It will be more challenging than with CP but knowing mechanics makes everything easier. Just look at vMA. Hard, seemingly impossible at times. And then you get more familiar with the mechanics and it becomes easier.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to make a challenge for experienced players beyond what they're already capable of (removal of CPs, less than optimal gear, etc) without also removing the solo and beginner-friendly aspect of the game. Overland is (and imo should be) designed to be accessible to the lowest common denominator of the game. Increasing damage taken, adding new mechanics, increasing amount of adds...these are all going to be gatekeepers for new players or those with lesser skill. If they can't get from quest point A to B without dying or needing to group because they don't have the ability to get past a pack of wolves...they're not going to stay in the game. And that's detrimental to game longevity. Players can always 'git gud' to complete tougher challenges but you don't want to discourage them from the start and drive them off.

tl;dr: if you find overland too easy, you're not the player it's created around

Vhozek

What is this "but the experienced player" nonsense? Literally stand still in front of an enemy on a fresh level 3 character and watch your HP bar. Then just swing at it a couple times.

kathandira

Vhozek wrote: »

Have you ever faced off against a single enemy NPC and just stood there without attacking it? Try it out. You'll soon notice that they swing at you once every 2 seconds, dealing damage that you will surely recover by half in between each attack. Now, I know what you're thinking "but if they group up it adds up". I agree with you, but how many times do you see overworld enemies grouping up against you? In my opinion, it seems like the fight only becomes fair when they're a group of about 4 or 5 and I'm talking about this while having no CP allocated by the way. Explorers like me are usually looking for new areas to explore and loot, but are disappointed to find out there's a severe scarcity for delves while the overworld enemies provide a snoozing time for a fight. You could go fight a world boss, sure, but it just becomes a game of rotation and respawns not everyone will agree to repeat over and over again, but solo or couples (2) will most likely. The problem is that 2 people will not defeat a world boss and if they do, they're in the vast minority of people.

TL;DR
Ideas:
1. Make overworld enemies more difficult the further away they are located from a town or city.
2. Scale difficulty depending on how many enemies are fighting you.
3. Add mini bosses similar to public dungeon bosses to the overworld to balance out the extremities of braindead easy enemies and overly difficult world bosses.
4. Add more random Daedra spawns with increased enemies.
5. Add groups of enemies or mini bosses in front of the entrance to delves, public dungeons, and group dungeons.

I honestly like these ideas. Especially #'s 1, 4, and 5.

EvilAutoTech

For veteran players increasing the difficulty of overland will not increase the challenge of overland. It will only increase the time sink of overland.

Even if ZOS added mechanics to every mob, vet players will figure it out quickly. Give overland mobs more health and more damage? Vet players will be tankier. Mini bosses? They might take a full rotation.

The only thing that increasing overland difficulty can provide is punishment for newer players.

ookami007

Or ... You craft some level 1 gear for your too and gear swap when you feel like you want it slightly more challenging...

heaven13

Vhozek wrote: »

What is this "but the experienced player" nonsense? Literally stand still in front of an enemy on a fresh level 3 character and watch your HP bar. Then just swing at it a couple times.

I'm sorry, let me clear it up a bit. These two particular quotes:

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I recently made a new character and didn't put in CP. With no gear other than the prophet's inferno I was given through leveling up and the random pieces of mixed gear I found laying through the game, I easily 2 hit most overland ads. The only thing that was remotely difficult was soloing a world boss before unlocking my second skill bar where I had to just run in circles using heavy attacks and dots because my sustain was so bad that I couldn't actually fight it.

Tldr; Overland content is actually brain dead regardless of if you are experienced or if you just bought the game.

Jhalin wrote: »

Apoxsee wrote: »

OP... just don’t use CP or reduce your CP, BOOM, overland stuff is harder. You have the power already.

That’s just plain untrue, the overland mobs don’t provide any threat no matter what you do. I have a lvl10 toon on the EU server and nothing is a challenge except world bosses at the start, and even then if you have a self heal on a single target boss then it stops being a challenge and just requires you move out of red and block every so often

Even in lvl 1 gear they barely leave a scratch. You can sit still and light attack them to death in a few hits while getting barely a fraction of your hp down

Both these players who are saying it's too easy are experienced. They know how they game works. They know how to block and dodge roll and what a self heal even is. That's what I mean by "experienced".

Again, lowest level common denominator (might be surprised by how many very casual players still find some/all of the above hard) players don't know about rotations. They don't know how to enchant (or charge) weapons. Some of them pick skills, like sword and board, for the visuals/because it looks cool/fits their RP ideas but don't understand the mechanics (oh hey, I'm taunting boss now!) of using said weapons.

Increasing difficulty for players that know the above things and are not only competent but can actually compete in a lot of the harder content (vMA, vet trials, DLC HM dungeons, etc) will only punish and drive away players that already struggle with overland as it is. And they exist. Maybe you don't see them because you blast past them one-shotting and AOE burning everything in your path, but they're there.

Minno

Revamp CP
Give pve battlespirit

BretonMage

Vhozek wrote: »

What is this "but the experienced player" nonsense? Literally stand still in front of an enemy on a fresh level 3 character and watch your HP bar. Then just swing at it a couple times.

You can have a fresh level 3 character played by an experienced player. Experienced players know how to play; they know how to avoid attacks and how to use skills, and it comes easily to them in ways that new players really struggle with.

I watched my seasoned-MMO-but-new-to-ESO husband die several times to an overland quest boss. ESO has a steep learning curve that will discourage new players even more if difficulty is increased.

Tholian1

Overland questing isn’t really meant to be difficult content for experienced players. You should be in the vet hm dungeons and trials for your difficult content.

Tandor

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I recently made a new character and didn't put in CP. With no gear other than the prophet's inferno I was given through leveling up and the random pieces of mixed gear I found laying through the game, I easily 2 hit most overland ads. The only thing that was remotely difficult was soloing a world boss before unlocking my second skill bar where I had to just run in circles using heavy attacks and dots because my sustain was so bad that I couldn't actually fight it.

Tldr; Overland content is actually brain dead regardless of if you are experienced or if you just bought the game.

I've only ever seen veteran players complain that the overland content is too easy. I've never seen a new player do so.

You associate experience with gear, totally ignoring the knowledge of the game and understanding of the combat techniques etc that are pure routine for you but completely lacking in new players.

Callous2208

BretonMage wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

What is this "but the experienced player" nonsense? Literally stand still in front of an enemy on a fresh level 3 character and watch your HP bar. Then just swing at it a couple times.

You can have a fresh level 3 character played by an experienced player. Experienced players know how to play; they know how to avoid attacks and how to use skills, and it comes easily to them in ways that new players really struggle with.

I watched my seasoned-MMO-but-new-to-ESO husband die several times to an overland quest boss. ESO has a steep learning curve that will discourage new players even more if difficulty is increased.

I'm sorry I just don't believe this at all. My 6 year old daughter made a character the other day and didn't die once until she jumped off a hill at level 10. Was literally clicking enemies to death and looking down to press s number key every now and then.

Linaleah

I have a side account, that has no cp on it yet. it has no max level characters at all. I have more then once come back to my character's dead body, because I thought I afked in a safe spot but didn't realise that random spider patrols through it.

I have also come back to my main who has max cp - dead because I afked in a wrong spot for a minute.

so no, OP I have not experienced what you describe. moreover. again bringing up that no cp side account. I'm pretty well familiar with the game at this point. I play a class that I'm comfortable with. and there are times where I have to frantically self heal or die.

no. I do not think overland needs to be made more difficult.

Jhalin

Linaleah wrote: »

I have a side account, that has no cp on it yet. it has no max level characters at all. I have more then once come back to my character's dead body, because I thought I afked in a safe spot but didn't realise that random spider patrols through it.

I have also come back to my main who has max cp - dead because I afked in a wrong spot for a minute.

so no, OP I have not experienced what you describe. moreover. again bringing up that no cp side account. I'm pretty well familiar with the game at this point. I play a class that I'm comfortable with. and there are times where I have to frantically self heal or die.

no. I do not think overland needs to be made more difficult.

Your char died because you went afk for minutes, and somehow that equals overland not being brain dead easy?

What’s next, getting mats is too hard because they don’t fill up your inventory passively?

Callous2208

Jhalin wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I have a side account, that has no cp on it yet. it has no max level characters at all. I have more then once come back to my character's dead body, because I thought I afked in a safe spot but didn't realise that random spider patrols through it.

I have also come back to my main who has max cp - dead because I afked in a wrong spot for a minute.

so no, OP I have not experienced what you describe. moreover. again bringing up that no cp side account. I'm pretty well familiar with the game at this point. I play a class that I'm comfortable with. and there are times where I have to frantically self heal or die.

no. I do not think overland needs to be made more difficult.

Your char died because you went afk for minutes, and somehow that equals overland not being brain dead easy?

What’s next, getting mats is too hard because they don’t fill up your inventory passively?

Lol I don't even believe them on this. On my max cp characters I regularly afk and come back to either full hp or mobs who have died attacking me.

Linaleah

Jhalin wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I have a side account, that has no cp on it yet. it has no max level characters at all. I have more then once come back to my character's dead body, because I thought I afked in a safe spot but didn't realise that random spider patrols through it.

I have also come back to my main who has max cp - dead because I afked in a wrong spot for a minute.

so no, OP I have not experienced what you describe. moreover. again bringing up that no cp side account. I'm pretty well familiar with the game at this point. I play a class that I'm comfortable with. and there are times where I have to frantically self heal or die.

no. I do not think overland needs to be made more difficult.

Your char died because you went afk for minutes, and somehow that equals overland not being brain dead easy?

What’s next, getting mats is too hard because they don’t fill up your inventory passively?

OP claimed that you can let a mob wail on you and not die. I have experienced otherwise. moreover I have also described when in active combat I had rough moments, while having enough experience not to die. newer players do die. heck, I see it happen a fair bit, mostly when doing crafting surveys and not always manage to get there in time to help before they die.

please. next time READ what I said instead of going directly to strawman arguments