mocap wrote: »

Do you agree with this statement? So if you a tank and looking at some speedrun guy who initiate the fight, will you continue your tank job or just taunt one mob and let your healer get mad? )

[snip] Real tanks will be tank whether somebody started fight or himself.

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

SirAndy wrote: »

I pull it, i kill it, ain't got no time for tanking ...

This.

YamiKuruku wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

So childish...

why is it childish why should i care about the person pulling when they don't care about the rest of the group? i guess you are a speedrunner also, huh, running ahead of everyone
as a team we should work together, not against

That's very situational, but yes, I guess I am a "speedrunner" too. Also, the "person pulling" cares enough to set his trust into you as a tank, since he expects you to pull the remaining mobs into the bulk and taunt the more or less dangerous adds. If he is too fast and gets killed before you or the healer arrives, it's totally okay - not your fault - and he has no right to blame you. But if you actively refuse to do your job just to "teach someone a lesson", you are the only ignorant *** acting like a child.

For some bossfights and add groups (eg. vFL) it's better to let the tank make the first move - that's right. He will take the first hit and it's easier for him to position the mobs correctly. But in almost every non-dlc dungeon (normal or vet) it's unnecessary.
If you can't manage to handle "the mess the people are doing" I really question your competence as a tank.

Protossyder wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

My tank is a tough love dragon knight, he doesn't wear ebon (your health pool =your problem) and anyone who runs ahead and pulls agro keeps it.

And let me guess, not even Alkosh...

Alkosh is pretty weak in dungeons, and nearly useless if you're running with a PUG group that provides you no synergies to activate it. Ebon is far from useless though, because most DDs nowadays use Dubious Camoran Throne or Whichmother's Potent Brew, so their HP is at 15-16K w/o Ebon, and with the buff they hit a safer 17-18K. I usually wear Ebon+Torug for dungeons since Torug's debuff doesn't depend on anything else. In trials I wear either Ebon+Alkosh or even Torug+Alkosh depending whether the other tank has Ebon and stays safe enough to actually buff the group too. Those are pretty much the only 3 sets are worth equipping on a tank for end game group utility.

I've experimented on other characters with sets such as Brands of Imperium (non DK tank), Seducer's (on Warden so I can spam Budding Seeds for Nature's Gift & Maturation passives), Akaviri Dragonguard (for faster War Horn) and even Tava's Favor on NB (before the Major Evasion was changed fron dodge chance to AoE resistance); even selfish sets that heal like Leeching Plate or Bahraha's Curse for no healer runs. Sets that only give you lots of HP like Green Pact and Plague Doctor aren't really that useful since most damage in dungeons is trials seems to be calibrated for blocking tanks with 40-45K HP, and what hits harder meant to be roll dodged instead and not even 60K+ HP will save you if you fail to roll dodge. Also damage proc sets on tank are pretty much useless since they hit for 2-3K at most due to various factors.

Why are you telling me all this? I wear Ebon + Alkosh all the time. The difference between infused crusher and infused crusher + torugs is very small, but just one synergy is enough to drop the bosses resistance by additional 3000 for the next 10 seconds when you wear alkosh.

I just assumed that this guy would most certainly not have alkosh if he doesn't even have ebon because of his ignorant attitude.

You misunderstand the point of Torug's

Blackleopardex wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

My tank is a tough love dragon knight, he doesn't wear ebon (your health pool =your problem) and anyone who runs ahead and pulls agro keeps it.

And let me guess, not even Alkosh...

Alkosh is pretty weak in dungeons, and nearly useless if you're running with a PUG group that provides you no synergies to activate it. Ebon is far from useless though, because most DDs nowadays use Dubious Camoran Throne or Whichmother's Potent Brew, so their HP is at 15-16K w/o Ebon, and with the buff they hit a safer 17-18K. I usually wear Ebon+Torug for dungeons since Torug's debuff doesn't depend on anything else. In trials I wear either Ebon+Alkosh or even Torug+Alkosh depending whether the other tank has Ebon and stays safe enough to actually buff the group too. Those are pretty much the only 3 sets are worth equipping on a tank for end game group utility.

I've experimented on other characters with sets such as Brands of Imperium (non DK tank), Seducer's (on Warden so I can spam Budding Seeds for Nature's Gift & Maturation passives), Akaviri Dragonguard (for faster War Horn) and even Tava's Favor on NB (before the Major Evasion was changed fron dodge chance to AoE resistance); even selfish sets that heal like Leeching Plate or Bahraha's Curse for no healer runs. Sets that only give you lots of HP like Green Pact and Plague Doctor aren't really that useful since most damage in dungeons is trials seems to be calibrated for blocking tanks with 40-45K HP, and what hits harder meant to be roll dodged instead and not even 60K+ HP will save you if you fail to roll dodge. Also damage proc sets on tank are pretty much useless since they hit for 2-3K at most due to various factors.

Why are you telling me all this? I wear Ebon + Alkosh all the time. The difference between infused crusher and infused crusher + torugs is very small, but just one synergy is enough to drop the bosses resistance by additional 3000 for the next 10 seconds when you wear alkosh.

I just assumed that this guy would most certainly not have alkosh if he doesn't even have ebon because of his ignorant attitude.

You misunderstand the point of Torug's

Enlighten me then.

Protossyder wrote: »

Blackleopardex wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Thannazzar wrote: »

My tank is a tough love dragon knight, he doesn't wear ebon (your health pool =your problem) and anyone who runs ahead and pulls agro keeps it.

And let me guess, not even Alkosh...

Alkosh is pretty weak in dungeons, and nearly useless if you're running with a PUG group that provides you no synergies to activate it. Ebon is far from useless though, because most DDs nowadays use Dubious Camoran Throne or Whichmother's Potent Brew, so their HP is at 15-16K w/o Ebon, and with the buff they hit a safer 17-18K. I usually wear Ebon+Torug for dungeons since Torug's debuff doesn't depend on anything else. In trials I wear either Ebon+Alkosh or even Torug+Alkosh depending whether the other tank has Ebon and stays safe enough to actually buff the group too. Those are pretty much the only 3 sets are worth equipping on a tank for end game group utility.

I've experimented on other characters with sets such as Brands of Imperium (non DK tank), Seducer's (on Warden so I can spam Budding Seeds for Nature's Gift & Maturation passives), Akaviri Dragonguard (for faster War Horn) and even Tava's Favor on NB (before the Major Evasion was changed fron dodge chance to AoE resistance); even selfish sets that heal like Leeching Plate or Bahraha's Curse for no healer runs. Sets that only give you lots of HP like Green Pact and Plague Doctor aren't really that useful since most damage in dungeons is trials seems to be calibrated for blocking tanks with 40-45K HP, and what hits harder meant to be roll dodged instead and not even 60K+ HP will save you if you fail to roll dodge. Also damage proc sets on tank are pretty much useless since they hit for 2-3K at most due to various factors.

Why are you telling me all this? I wear Ebon + Alkosh all the time. The difference between infused crusher and infused crusher + torugs is very small, but just one synergy is enough to drop the bosses resistance by additional 3000 for the next 10 seconds when you wear alkosh.

I just assumed that this guy would most certainly not have alkosh if he doesn't even have ebon because of his ignorant attitude.

You misunderstand the point of Torug's

Enlighten me then.

I never tun Alkosh over Torug's in a dungeon, if Alkosh, then both. It's a typical assumption to make about Torug's, looking only at the de-buff strength by itself, let me explain.

Torug's is a cool-down reducer as well as a effect increaser, the base cool-down for crusher is 10 seconds, with infused(-50%) it's 5 seconds, with Torug's(-30%) and infused it's 3.5 seconds. This way to can apply crusher much more rapidly and have a much better up-time. Without torug's a crusher up-time can be a pain to to keep up, and as soon as you have more then 1 target without torugs, well bye crusher up-time...

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

"You pull it, you tank it" is selfness in my opinion.

We all have a job to do and agro is the tanks main job above all.

For the most part a lot of use have run the same dungeons many times. No point in stopping to smell the roses. If someone says they are doing the quest then yes I will slow down and let them do it, even if they want to listen/read and take time to enjoy the quest as it maybe their first time doing it. If not then it's all hell is out run like the devil is on my back.

I expect everyone to do their job they queued for.

You mean of course except you. You joined a group and you are suppose to act as a part of the group. Running ahead and beginning the fight before all the members of the group are there is not being a part of the group. In fact your actions can be detrimental to the group. A stamina based player running ahead often leaves a magicka based player alone dealing with mobs the stam based character ignored on the way to the next boss. People don't join groups to be your cheerleaders. They join to fight along side the rest of the group. Do the job you queued for and stay with the group.

Uh..No

The trash come with because I aoe attack them and pull them with me. No matter if I am a magic or stam character. I cast rapids. I only expect the tank to take agro from the boss.

The trash follows you for a bit then goes back after a certain point. Doesn't matter though the rest of the group isn't there to cheer you on or chase you down as you kill things. They are there to participate as a group and you are wrecking that whether the dungeon is finished quicker or not.

I don't care

Depends on the what they agro. If its easy trash I don't mind but in dlc vet dungeons if they speed ahead and get killed quickly by more deadly adds, that's on them.

The BIGGEST pet peeve though are players agroing bosses at the start of a fight. Have have only ever encountered players like this a handful of times in the lengthy time I've been playing. The last time it happened it was vet scalepeak first boss, some petsorc thought he was topshit and would agro the boss before we were all even there, we wiped of course. soon as we all rezzed he agro'd the bosses straight away again. I just stood there and let him tank it, he finally got the message and left straight after. He was quickly replaced by a DD who knew what dungeon etiquette was and the run went smoothly from then on out.

No because I wanna get the dungeons done as fast as possible too. If I am tanking I don't mind if they run through everything especially when its an easy dungeon. No harm no foul.

I'm no major dungeoneer in this game, but even so...

As DPS and even as Healz, I follow the designated tank. Someone wants to run off and get themselves killed, I'll let them die and help clean up their mess... when the tank gets to it. Tank sets the pace, and sticking by the tank and DPSing their target/healing the tank are my first priorities.

I think it's funny that everyone thinks the one running ahead are always dying without the tank. At least 80-90% of the time I can stay alive and tank the boss, but my dps does drop in order to do this which is why I expect the tank to take agro when he gets their. Now of course they are exceptions to this rule especially the newer dlc's.

I have been playing this game for over 4 years and have only seen a handful of tanks that can properly group the adds. Just because you pull a few adds does not mean you are doing it correctly. More than times not they are pulling away the adds being damaged and not the other ones outside the battle not being damaged. Their eyes go to the players and they mindlessly pull them the adds. Have done this before on my tank and had it do more times to me than I can count. As a result I think it has made me a better tank as I try to recognize what the other players are doing and try to focus on the adds outside the battle and try to group them on me and not pull them away from a dd where a add would be dead in 2 more seconds and the dd can then come to me the tank where I have grouped more adds for them to focus on.

kargen27 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

"You pull it, you tank it" is selfness in my opinion.

We all have a job to do and agro is the tanks main job above all.

For the most part a lot of use have run the same dungeons many times. No point in stopping to smell the roses. If someone says they are doing the quest then yes I will slow down and let them do it, even if they want to listen/read and take time to enjoy the quest as it maybe their first time doing it. If not then it's all hell is out run like the devil is on my back.

I expect everyone to do their job they queued for.

You mean of course except you. You joined a group and you are suppose to act as a part of the group. Running ahead and beginning the fight before all the members of the group are there is not being a part of the group. In fact your actions can be detrimental to the group. A stamina based player running ahead often leaves a magicka based player alone dealing with mobs the stam based character ignored on the way to the next boss. People don't join groups to be your cheerleaders. They join to fight along side the rest of the group. Do the job you queued for and stay with the group.

Uh..No

The trash come with because I aoe attack them and pull them with me. No matter if I am a magic or stam character. I cast rapids. I only expect the tank to take agro from the boss.

The trash follows you for a bit then goes back after a certain point. Doesn't matter though the rest of the group isn't there to cheer you on or chase you down as you kill things. They are there to participate as a group and you are wrecking that whether the dungeon is finished quicker or not.

You are correct the trash follows a bit and generally that is times I do fell when running ahead because the other 3 have stopped to kill 2 adds and not 20-30 that have followed me. Only once have I had a tank/healer/another dps ever ask me to slow down and stop running ahead, but numerous times they said they like the speed in which the dungeon is being done.

I hate speedrunners, but if I'm the tank I have a responsibility and I take that seriously. The very fact that some *** would steal aggro when he's not the tank tells me that he doesn't know bupkis about tanking, which means we still need a tank.