Elitism vs. Enjoying the game

Ogou · December 2018

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

Why is being a good player equate to elitism?

Why do you assume good players are not having fun?

How does suggesting Relequen and AY to a new CP160 make you a good player?

adeptusminor · December 2018

I'm elitist, I look down on everyone, especially people better than me

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2018

It's not a problem of elitism, it's simply a problem of meta and human societies, online or not, gaming or not. Whether you like it or not, you'll have hundreds of people advising you on how to reach the "meta" (degree-suit-tie-9to5-job-marriage-house-mortgage-picket-fences-two-kids) , without even knowing or explaining how and why this should lead you to success and happiness. On the other hand, you'll also have hundreds of people advising you to NOT follow this model and to go your own way - not knowing or explaining either how this would make you any happier.
That's not because it's a game, that's not because of competition and that's not because of "meta" (ZOS never provided any "META", rather the opposite), it's just because we players are social humans.

victory.immortalb16_ESO · December 2018

Just enjoy the game. Don't get upset if some elitist tries telling you that you suck because you don't have the end game gear they consider 'essential' to be able to play.

It's a game. Find like minded individuals and play with them. Or solo. It's up to you. If people want to spend days theory crafting and testing their 'perfect' build, then good luck to them, if that's what makes them happy.

Raudgrani · December 2018

victory.immortalb16_ESO wrote: »

Just enjoy the game. Don't get upset if some elitist tries telling you that you suck because you don't have the end game gear they consider 'essential' to be able to play.

It's a game. Find like minded individuals and play with them. Or solo. It's up to you. If people want to spend days theory crafting and testing their 'perfect' build, then good luck to them, if that's what makes them happy.

I wasn't the one getting weird/overkill advice, someone I don't even know had it. And I see it pretty often too, and it makes me kind of sad. Partly because it seems they are trying to pull people into "endgame content" as soon as they hatch, and they will likely miss out on large parts of the game that normally would be "on their way" getting there (exploring, trying different builds and sets and what not).
Also, someone who didn't plan on spending unlimited time several years ahead on a game, and who started play not long ago, might be rather put off when they hear about how they "have to" farm this and that set for it being worth playing. You can do very well with like 8% less crit chance, it's not the end of the world. If the dude (in the future) is happy just to have cleared the trials on Normal, it's all good. I know people who played since start, and they are like "I've done all trials, yes. On normal, yes. I won't even bother trying them on veteran - I'm just glad I've done them all". And i THINK almost a majority of players are like that, the actually few who ever even step into a trial.

The_Lex · December 2018

I was given some "free" advice the other day. I just came to PC from xbox (I was CP 900+ and have run every trial), but now I'm CP 312. I was leveling a pet Sorc during the event--just for fun. In a dungeon pug, someone told me that I should never use a Sorc and should reroll to something else if I want to be good at this game. Completely unsolicited advice. Thanks.

Yet, I was consistent doing 60+% of the group damage.

Gigasax · December 2018

What is the [edit] problem?

Everything except questing, RP, Housing, some pvp activities and normal dungeons/trials is basically endgame in ESO.
And for these, not endgame, activities you just need to press your left mouse button, some crafted gear and maybe a skill some times which you chose for your playstyle.
What i want to say is that you dont need any advice for enjoying the game with any casual playstyle.
But, however, if you want to get into endgame there is no way to avoid grinding for good (or even BiS) gear and getting some advice/help on skillloadouts and rotations.
It has nothing to do with elitism or judging your playstyle, but in the end it will help you complete these activities easier and probably with a lot more fun (except you want to tryhard the same vet trial or even dungeon, wiping over and over).

TL.DR: play the game you want, but dont expect to complete everything with not investing into something or rejecting any advice!

And btw:

Ogou wrote: »

How does suggesting Relequen and AY to a new CP160 make you a good player?

It does not make you a good player, but these easy to get sets will help the new CP160 beat the game more easily

[edited for circumventing the profanity filter]

mocap · December 2018

as long as you know mechanics, have 25k DPS (easy possible with crafted + guild store gear), can heal or tank - no one will call you noob or suck or whatever.

Now if you go DLC dungeon, don't know mechanics , don't tell everyone about it (!), have 10k dps, can't heal/tank then.... pls don't ruin the game for others.

Kikke · December 2018

mocap wrote: »

as long as you know mechanics, have 25k DPS (easy possible with crafted + guild store gear), can heal or tank - no one will call you noob or suck or whatever.

Now if you go DLC dungeon, don't know mechanics , don't tell everyone about it (!), have 10k dps, can't heal/tank then.... pls don't ruin the game for others.

40k dps is easly achived with one crafyed set and one overland set. There is no excuse to do 20k dps anymore... maybe as a levler.

dazee · December 2018

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

Why is being a good player equate to elitism?

Why do you assume good players are not having fun?

Really? if someone was ACTUALLY a good player and not a brainless sheeple, they'd be able to figure out how to do well without using the meta everyone and their mother wants them to use.

Play OUR way or GTFO? thats fun? that's being "good?" nobody can convince anyone with a brain that that is true.

Skander · December 2018

I enjoy winning. Elitism comes after that

dazee · December 2018

Skander wrote: »

I enjoy winning. Elitism comes after that

Well you can win with a lot of combos, no need to insist people wear the sets and use the builds you want them to rather than the ones they actually have fun with.

Linaleah · December 2018

Gigasax wrote: »

What is the fu**ing problem?

Everything except questing, RP, Housing, some pvp activities and normal dungeons/trials is basically endgame in ESO.
And for these, not endgame, activities you just need to press your left mouse button, some crafted gear and maybe a skill some times which you chose for your playstyle.
What i want to say is that you dont need any advice for enjoying the game with any casual playstyle.
But, however, if you want to get into endgame there is no way to avoid grinding for good (or even BiS) gear and getting some advice/help on skillloadouts and rotations.
It has nothing to do with elitism or judging your playstyle, but in the end it will help you complete these activities easier and probably with a lot more fun (except you want to tryhard the same vet trial or even dungeon, wiping over and over).

TL.DR: play the game you want, but dont expect to complete everything with not investing into something or rejecting any advice!

And btw:

Ogou wrote: »

How does suggesting Relequen and AY to a new CP160 make you a good player?

It does not make you a good player, but these easy to get sets will help the new CP160 beat the game more easily

fresh 160 player
easy to get sets.

umm.

no. no they are NOT easy to get sets for fresh 160 cp. houndings is an easy to get set for a fresh 160. sets that require farming trials? are quite a bit more advanced. fresh 160 needs a STARTER set.

The_Lex · December 2018

The_Lex wrote: »

I was given some "free" advice the other day. I just came to PC from xbox (I was CP 900+ and have run every trial), but now I'm CP 312. I was leveling a pet Sorc during the event--just for fun. In a dungeon pug, someone told me that I should never use a Sorc and should reroll to something else if I want to be good at this game. Completely unsolicited advice. Thanks.

Yet, I was consistent doing 60+% of the group damage.

And that was without Siroria or Spell Strategist. Lol

Raudgrani · December 2018

Gigasax wrote: »

What is the fu**ing problem?

Everything except questing, RP, Housing, some pvp activities and normal dungeons/trials is basically endgame in ESO.
And for these, not endgame, activities you just need to press your left mouse button, some crafted gear and maybe a skill some times which you chose for your playstyle.
What i want to say is that you dont need any advice for enjoying the game with any casual playstyle.
But, however, if you want to get into endgame there is no way to avoid grinding for good (or even BiS) gear and getting some advice/help on skillloadouts and rotations.
It has nothing to do with elitism or judging your playstyle, but in the end it will help you complete these activities easier and probably with a lot more fun (except you want to tryhard the same vet trial or even dungeon, wiping over and over).

TL.DR: play the game you want, but dont expect to complete everything with not investing into something or rejecting any advice!

And btw:

Ogou wrote: »

How does suggesting Relequen and AY to a new CP160 make you a good player?

It does not make you a good player, but these easy to get sets will help the new CP160 beat the game more easily

If AY daggers and jewelry are "easy to get", tell me what's hard to get? And no, "perfected... [anything]" doesn't count, that's not a "set", it's just a slightly improved version of a set - which is "easy to get".

Wifeaggro13 · December 2018

It depends on your idea of fun. I've never found light attacking my way through 90%of the content paying no attention to mechanics fun. What I find fun is making friends with people in game finding and defeating the most difficult challenges together. I enjoy meeting people and talking to them in voice chat discussions about builds and strats.I enjoy having consequence in my decisions in character progression. I enjoy emergent gameplay. I enjoy vertical progession as well horizontal is not working at all honestly . All they did was hide it behind a dps meta . Truthfully I dont like the direction ESO took in the last 2 years.this game truthfully holds nothing a long term player base would stick around for. There is only so many times the churn case population will come back for more of the same content with modified skins. I've been done with eso for a while and hoped the team would address these issues and steer the ship towards a middle ground design.right now they are just focused and pumping out broken poor performance dlcs and chapters and charge premium prices for what a MMo of previous generations gave for free. And when they released an expansion it evolved the game.

Gigasax · December 2018

Raudgrani wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

What is the fu**ing problem?

Everything except questing, RP, Housing, some pvp activities and normal dungeons/trials is basically endgame in ESO.
And for these, not endgame, activities you just need to press your left mouse button, some crafted gear and maybe a skill some times which you chose for your playstyle.
What i want to say is that you dont need any advice for enjoying the game with any casual playstyle.
But, however, if you want to get into endgame there is no way to avoid grinding for good (or even BiS) gear and getting some advice/help on skillloadouts and rotations.
It has nothing to do with elitism or judging your playstyle, but in the end it will help you complete these activities easier and probably with a lot more fun (except you want to tryhard the same vet trial or even dungeon, wiping over and over).

TL.DR: play the game you want, but dont expect to complete everything with not investing into something or rejecting any advice!

And btw:

Ogou wrote: »

How does suggesting Relequen and AY to a new CP160 make you a good player?

It does not make you a good player, but these easy to get sets will help the new CP160 beat the game more easily

If AY daggers and jewelry are "easy to get", tell me what's hard to get? And no, "perfected... [anything]" doesn't count, that's not a "set", it's just a slightly improved version of a set - which is "easy to get".

They are easy to get, just get into normal HRC and CR! It´s just time investment, it has nothing to do with difficulty.

The problem is that leveling and questing became so easy over the years that new players dont even need to understand the most basic game mechanics, like interrupting or dodging in the right moment or blocking heavy attacks.
If getting to CP 160 would be a bit harder we would not even have this discussion at all.
When Vetranks where a thing you could just randomly look for a group of VR10+ ppl in craglorn and do any vet dungeon in the game with ease. Now you cant even tell if a "tank" (e.g. 40k DK whatever), who is looking for dailies, knows how to taunt.

Normal Trials are stupidly easy if you know the basic mechanics of this game!

dazee · December 2018

Nobody needs "BIS" to complete anything in this game. people who insist people use this "BIS" garbage and would kick someone for not using it need to get a life and grow up.

Also BIS is completely relative with many factors contributing to what is BIS for you.

Gigasax · December 2018

dazee wrote: »

Nobody needs "BIS" to complete anything in this game.

Sooo...you say you i can do Gryphon Heart or Tick Tock with my blue Hundings?

BiS is BiS, but i dont say that you need that.
But you can recommend the BiS sets as something to grind or invest time in. Of course there are plenty of options what you can run in between.

ryanfan · December 2018

I didn't run AY + Rele until max cp lol ;D
Didn't even know about the sets before finally trying to do some difficult content

max_only · December 2018

I agree with Op. a fresh cp160 needs a crafted set and an overland set so they can begin working up to dungeon and trial sets. That would have been better advice.

A fresh player doesn’t go from “whatever drops from quests” to END GAME trial elite gear. A fresh player people, not a fresh character. Do y’all even remember the first time the light clicked on in your head with ESO combat?

royo · December 2018

Most endgame players I know would tell a cp 160 player to wear crafted training gear for another 200-400+ CP

siddique · December 2018

I am nowhere near the top players of the game but I like to Max out my stuff. Minus jewelry, everything is gold, with best traits and glyphs.

From the time I used to play on PC and now on PS4, it's been four years and I have never, ever, even attempted a trial. I love this game and I think one should play to enjoy not feel angry.

Even though, as I keep leveling I find vMA keeps getting tougher. I was stuck on Frozen Rink for ages and now the first arena boss kills me. I thought I was a glass Canon, turns out I'm just glass.

I think one should take it slowly and not push for BiS the minute you hit 160. Eventually everything falls in place.

Sparr0w · December 2018

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Poor guy, those meta stam people should know not running Relequen and AY are not the end of the world. Viper’s and Hunding’s a good starter set up for newer players. Or replace Viper’s with Spriggan’s or Leviathan. I do feel for the guy. I hope he got the gear he wanted.

I'd always recommend Hundings/Spriggans first since these are easy and cheap to get. Then VO and Twice-Fang/Leviathan, then Rele & Advancing.

2pc crafted set that gives stamina or health, until you can get Kra'ghs. Then swap this for Selenes or Stormfist and eventually Velidreth.

Then you've got gear for every occasion, experience with easiest, mid and harder dungeons, as well as easiest and harder trials.

No point jumping in at the deep end unless your soul goal is to do so.

Raudgrani · December 2018

Gigasax wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

What is the fu**ing problem?

Everything except questing, RP, Housing, some pvp activities and normal dungeons/trials is basically endgame in ESO.
And for these, not endgame, activities you just need to press your left mouse button, some crafted gear and maybe a skill some times which you chose for your playstyle.
What i want to say is that you dont need any advice for enjoying the game with any casual playstyle.
But, however, if you want to get into endgame there is no way to avoid grinding for good (or even BiS) gear and getting some advice/help on skillloadouts and rotations.
It has nothing to do with elitism or judging your playstyle, but in the end it will help you complete these activities easier and probably with a lot more fun (except you want to tryhard the same vet trial or even dungeon, wiping over and over).

TL.DR: play the game you want, but dont expect to complete everything with not investing into something or rejecting any advice!

And btw:

Ogou wrote: »

How does suggesting Relequen and AY to a new CP160 make you a good player?

It does not make you a good player, but these easy to get sets will help the new CP160 beat the game more easily

If AY daggers and jewelry are "easy to get", tell me what's hard to get? And no, "perfected... [anything]" doesn't count, that's not a "set", it's just a slightly improved version of a set - which is "easy to get".

They are easy to get, just get into normal HRC and CR! It´s just time investment, it has nothing to do with difficulty.

The problem is that leveling and questing became so easy over the years that new players dont even need to understand the most basic game mechanics, like interrupting or dodging in the right moment or blocking heavy attacks.
If getting to CP 160 would be a bit harder we would not even have this discussion at all.
When Vetranks where a thing you could just randomly look for a group of VR10+ ppl in craglorn and do any vet dungeon in the game with ease. Now you cant even tell if a "tank" (e.g. 40k DK whatever), who is looking for dailies, knows how to taunt.

Normal Trials are stupidly easy if you know the basic mechanics of this game!

We simply have a very different value in the word "easy" and "hard". You mean "easy" as in "not complicated"; it still takes a LOT of time, patience and commitment to do so. And in all honesty, even running the Craglorn trials on a 160 toon is never "easy" (and if you and other "elite guys" have your say, they'd do it in no gear at all - because anything but the best is *** anyway, not worth getting), anyone saying so is full of ****, or you simply forgot what it was like when you were new to the game. It's nonsense. And in addition to having a low level too, your skill level and experience is pretty on par with that level.

Nobody things you are impressive or cool in any way, when you say it's an easy and natural thing to do for some CP 160 to go and farm a complete set of AY/Relequen/Velidreth. You just look like a ***, and once complete green hornets actually try to follow that advice (in their level 10 gear), they will fail hard - and that's turning people away from the game, because they think they suck at it (as you say it's "so easy", what does it make them?).

Oberstein · December 2018

Getting good gear and playing game considers enjoyment too. But op will run naked to everything and die, when someobody told him use some gear he will spit on his face with angry look.

Raudgrani · December 2018

royo wrote: »

Most endgame players I know would tell a cp 160 player to wear crafted training gear for another 200-400+ CP

Exactly my point. It's no use trying to take on any really demanding "endgame content" until he's like CP 500 (for all we know, he might find being a tank, a healer or a magicka DD way more enjoyable). Until reaching there, I am pretty positive it's way more constructive and enjoyable to actually finish all the dungeons and so forth at least on normal - and actually just do the trials with a decent crew, to get a picture of what it's all about.

keevil111 · December 2018

[quote=True.

People have different playing styles, different strengths and weaknesses as a player.

What works for one player may not work as well for another. For example: some players can get away with playing as a glass cannon while others will simply stay dead most of the time and may need to take more care of their defenses.[/quote]

This. With the meta dps gear, race and rotation, I still woudn't be able to hit the dps of some high level DDs.

But I can naked tank better than half the ESO population cause of my experience, and /or playstyle.

(obvious exaggeration, but you know what I mean)

Linaleah · December 2018

Oberstein wrote: »

Getting good gear and playing game considers enjoyment too. But op will run naked to everything and die, when someobody told him use some gear he will spit on his face with angry look.

way to miss a gosh darn point. there is a plethora of viable gear between "leveling random pieces on a way to 160cp" and "absolute meta best in slot some theorycrafter stated" and certainly a plethora of viable options between BIS and naked. heck, alcast has starter set/cp distribution suggestions FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS BUILDS. so these elitists are so mindless they didn't even fully read the builds they are mindlessly regurgitating.

new player in OP wanted starter gear. WHICH IS AS IT SHOULD BE. stop throwing BiS grinds at them before they are ready, you are NOT being helpful

Oberstein · December 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

Oberstein wrote: »

Getting good gear and playing game considers enjoyment too. But op will run naked to everything and die, when someobody told him use some gear he will spit on his face with angry look.

way to miss a gosh darn point. there is a plethora of viable gear between "leveling random pieces on a way to 160cp" and "absolute meta best in slot some theorycrafter stated" and certainly a plethora of viable options between BIS and naked. heck, alcast has starter set/cp distribution suggestions FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS BUILDS. so these elitists are so mindless they didn't even fully read the builds they are mindlessly regurgitating.

new player in OP wanted starter gear. WHICH IS AS IT SHOULD BE. stop throwing BiS grinds at them before they are ready, you are NOT being helpful

Title of the topic won't helping either.