Elitism vs. Enjoying the game

Linaleah

Oberstein wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oberstein wrote: »

Getting good gear and playing game considers enjoyment too. But op will run naked to everything and die, when someobody told him use some gear he will spit on his face with angry look.

way to miss a gosh darn point. there is a plethora of viable gear between "leveling random pieces on a way to 160cp" and "absolute meta best in slot some theorycrafter stated" and certainly a plethora of viable options between BIS and naked. heck, alcast has starter set/cp distribution suggestions FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS BUILDS. so these elitists are so mindless they didn't even fully read the builds they are mindlessly regurgitating.


new player in OP wanted starter gear. WHICH IS AS IT SHOULD BE. stop throwing BiS grinds at them before they are ready, you are NOT being helpful

Title of the topic won't helping either.

oh right, you are one of those people who only reads the titles, right? even thought titles is pretty darn accurate. sometimes I wonder why elitists even play, since all they do is complain when other people don't adhere to their rigid idea of meta, or complain about the FoM meta getting nerfed.

Oberstein

Linaleah wrote: »

Oberstein wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Oberstein wrote: »

Getting good gear and playing game considers enjoyment too. But op will run naked to everything and die, when someobody told him use some gear he will spit on his face with angry look.

way to miss a gosh darn point. there is a plethora of viable gear between "leveling random pieces on a way to 160cp" and "absolute meta best in slot some theorycrafter stated" and certainly a plethora of viable options between BIS and naked. heck, alcast has starter set/cp distribution suggestions FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF HIS BUILDS. so these elitists are so mindless they didn't even fully read the builds they are mindlessly regurgitating.


new player in OP wanted starter gear. WHICH IS AS IT SHOULD BE. stop throwing BiS grinds at them before they are ready, you are NOT being helpful

Title of the topic won't helping either.

oh right, you are one of those people who only reads the titles, right? even thought titles is pretty darn accurate. sometimes I wonder why elitists even play, since all they do is complain when other people don't adhere to their rigid idea of meta, or complain about the FoM meta getting nerfed.

Why do we care what you wonder about?

eliisra

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

DeathStalker_X

Elitism (and meta-builds) are the two biggest things that turn me off to MMORPGs. Skyrim (and Fallout 3/4) simply rule. But I sincerely dislike being *forced* to interact with others. I don't know that I'll EVER get the "group" dungeons done, and will probably never join a guild. I PREFER solo play. Most people I have tried to talk with online have either been utter jerks or simply refuse to respond.

I really don't feel that these "group" things should be a requirement. Should be VERY easy to level-adjust things and scale to the size of ANY party or solo character.

SupremeRissole

People shouldnt label all elite players as arrogant elitists, just as they shouldnt label all low cp players as trash.
Elite players are typically people who enjoy the game because they consider themselves good at the game.
I'll happily pass on my knowledge to those who want it but with the limited time I have to play each day I refuse to spend hours on content that can be cleared in a quarter of the time. So rather than queue for a random vet and then tell people how to play or get frustrated and tell them they are trash, I just dont use activity finder. Everyone is happier this way.
If you arent in a patient mood dont put yourself in a situation that requires patience, simple.

SugaComa

What makes me laugh is the DPS increase

Trials in craglorn from what I can tell can be done with a DPS of around 25k to 30k

Now people are asking for 45 to 55 like any lower it can't be done ... The content hasn't gotten harder so why the need for the increased DPS

Seriously if you're asking in zone chat then you really are only looking for a completion, if you want leaderboard scores then you need a dedicated team who can all function together and know what to do if someone goes down

A well oiled team doing mechanics and stuff is beautiful to watch its like a ballet, all dancing to the same drummer.

DaveMoeDee

OP mentioned having fun, but then he mentioned PvP and lost me.

My point is that we can't apply our idea of fun to other people's idea of fun. I honestly hate thinking about gear. Skills, fine, because I actually use those those and can evaluate how they are doing without much thought. But I don't want to spend the cognitive resources to think about gear in any game. I don't find that fun. I don't even really care for games centered around loot.

Add the problem of inventory management in the game and the grind to complete sets and it is convenient to just pursue sets that people vouch for.

I run trials because I enjoy grouping with people, and because I am a completionist. I guess I like the challenge too.

Tsar_Gekkou

SugaComa wrote: »

What makes me laugh is the DPS increase

Trials in craglorn from what I can tell can be done with a DPS of around 25k to 30k

Now people are asking for 45 to 55 like any lower it can't be done ... The content hasn't gotten harder so why the need for the increased DPS

Probably because the lower dps back then meant that people were taking longer to beat vet trials, and the longer the fight goes on, the bigger the chance of someone screwing up and wiping the group. Basically, people are getting more and more spoiled by higher dps, leading to impatience because they don't want a 40-minute trial to become 80 minutes if it doesn't have to. But people asking pugs for 45K+ are idiots since most people can't even seem to hit 20K.

Wifeaggro13

Raudgrani wrote: »

royo wrote: »

Most endgame players I know would tell a cp 160 player to wear crafted training gear for another 200-400+ CP

Exactly my point. It's no use trying to take on any really demanding "endgame content" until he's like CP 500 (for all we know, he might find being a tank, a healer or a magicka DD way more enjoyable). Until reaching there, I am pretty positive it's way more constructive and enjoyable to actually finish all the dungeons and so forth at least on normal - and actually just do the trials with a decent crew, to get a picture of what it's all about.

thats a Flaw with the CP system and Tam one . its not any community driven social status BS people are making it to be. what it boils down to is the end game in ESO is very broken in concept. the game design they rewound ESO into with Tam one, does not support any type of end game community. it does not emerge in any way shape or form. it goes from window licking easy to you should have been playing in group dynamic with proper builds.

Wifeaggro13

DeathStalker_X wrote: »

Elitism (and meta-builds) are the two biggest things that turn me off to MMORPGs. Skyrim (and Fallout 3/4) simply rule. But I sincerely dislike being *forced* to interact with others. I don't know that I'll EVER get the "group" dungeons done, and will probably never join a guild. I PREFER solo play. Most people I have tried to talk with online have either been utter jerks or simply refuse to respond.

I really don't feel that these "group" things should be a requirement. Should be VERY easy to level-adjust things and scale to the size of ANY party or solo character.

and this is why MMO's suck so bad over the last ten years. Why in the world do you buy MMOs then? there are plenty of awesome single player RPGs that do that way better then this game does. go play the witcher, divinity ..... the list goes on and on. the truth is scaling ruins game design it destroys MMOs and you end up where we are at right now. i
don't blame your mentality i blame greedy developers trying to make as much money off your play style. while trying to bill this as an MMO. What happens is you end up with a clunky game that spends it server resources on scaling the content, trying to overly simplify mechanics. they spend post development dollars on pumping out garbage for people who don't actually play all of their game instead of fixing what they broke two patches ago. they abandon a PVP community completely (im not a pvpr though) because they spend the least amount of money and focus on making huge PVE patches with are very flat and easy reskins of leveing content, no new game systems just more poorly written quests that dont emerge anything. its a harsh assessment i know but its the truth. corporations have ruined this genre.

Wifeaggro13

SugaComa wrote: »

What makes me laugh is the DPS increase

Trials in craglorn from what I can tell can be done with a DPS of around 25k to 30k

Now people are asking for 45 to 55 like any lower it can't be done ... The content hasn't gotten harder so why the need for the increased DPS

Seriously if you're asking in zone chat then you really are only looking for a completion, if you want leaderboard scores then you need a dedicated team who can all function together and know what to do if someone goes down

A well oiled team doing mechanics and stuff is beautiful to watch its like a ballet, all dancing to the same drummer.

its bad concepts in the competitive pve design. everything swirls around the dps meta the game uses a one trick pony and now the end game community just wants fastest clears. they could learn a thing or two from older MMO's . using variations of old ideas would benefit ESO . like slow burns where mobs would enrage and one shot people if the dps was too high or if the tank lost agro. ESO made a bad decision when they decided they didn't want to fix a bug like animation canceling and call it a feature. Truthfully the CP system has made the game worse by not expanding on it. just adding points to passives is such a lazy friggin design its baffling.by this time this system should have been layered and throttled to lead you into a path of picking a role in it.

Gigasax

@Raudgrani

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451349/lowby-nmol-lvl-6-chars-no-cp

Sooo, it seems not so hard to get trial sets now right?

zaria

eliisra wrote: »

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

You misunderstand everything. Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

So you want to fly from Fargo to Anchorage, you obviously use your private jet, don't understand the issue.
You might have to land and refuel if you has an wimpy Learjet like the other noobs.
For long flight like LA to London you might benefit of an first class or even slum in business class as it speed thing up but then you don't have your plane in London.
Yes it was a bit more useful than your post.

Linaleah

Gigasax wrote: »

@Raudgrani

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451349/lowby-nmol-lvl-6-chars-no-cp

Sooo, it seems not so hard to get trial sets now right?

what exactly are you trying to show here. that over-buffed low level characters IN AN EXPERIENCED GUILD GROUP can run a normal trial? which is not even remotely the same as trying to pug that stuff over and over and over and hope to god the right set drops?

do you all even think before you type?

StormChaser3000

Linaleah wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

@Raudgrani

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451349/lowby-nmol-lvl-6-chars-no-cp

Sooo, it seems not so hard to get trial sets now right?

what exactly are you trying to show here. that over-buffed low level characters IN AN EXPERIENCED GUILD GROUP can run a normal trial? which is not even remotely the same as trying to pug that stuff over and over and over and hope to god the right set drops?

do you all even think before you type?

It's because you pug with potatoes and is too proud to be carried lol

Liofa

I doubt the "eliteness" of the person who recommended meta gear to a low CP player. Meta gear is based on Max CP. For example, since a Max CP player have a ton of points in Precise Strikes, they get more benefit from Advancing Yokeda. It goes on and on like this for many other meta setups. Any proper endgame player knows that first thing to do is craft a set of training gear and farm CP. Such a bad presentation of endgame community, shame.

thegreat_one

This comes down to play style but for me, I do a lot of Pvp. I love it. I dont Pve unless its grinding a toon or helping someone.
I needed Earthgore for my healer, and was going to run Bloodroot, then it shows up in the golden, I need zone gear? I gamble on boxes. Got velidreth from golden too.

No one told me to do it this way but its how i make it work.

On guilds.... You got to do your research.

My search started with the guild with the most active website. Looked into them and joined, Never looked back.
They helped me achieve the endgame stuff and helped me with my builds.

Any group who is recruiting members for a trial in zone should not be expecting elite performance

Linaleah

StormChaser3000 wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Gigasax wrote: »

@Raudgrani

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/451349/lowby-nmol-lvl-6-chars-no-cp

Sooo, it seems not so hard to get trial sets now right?

what exactly are you trying to show here. that over-buffed low level characters IN AN EXPERIENCED GUILD GROUP can run a normal trial? which is not even remotely the same as trying to pug that stuff over and over and over and hope to god the right set drops?

do you all even think before you type?

It's because you pug with potatoes and is too proud to be carried lol

says the person complaining about carrying people through fungal grotto. you are either ok with carrying newbies and not rushing them through... or you STOP telling them that they are too proud to be carried.

incidentally, there was a point where I was running farming runs weekly with a guild. over and over and over and over. for several weeks. this was for one person to try and get AY daggers so basically if they would drop for someone else - trade was a given, unlike pugging something. we were running on normal too so everything was much faster with reckless multi group pulls and all.

I ended uo collecting 2 full sets of IA (not counting jewelry which I got in vet runs - in gold no less and one of the staffs was inferno rather then lightning) as well as various odds and ends before said guildie finally got those daggers. it also took me forever and a day across 2 different guilds on variety of characters to get enough olorime pieces to have a full set I could combine with my other various healing sets. with GUILDS. regular acess to multiple runs and people willing to trade gear. and you know... they didn't mind me running my seducer starter set on a healer, and I was most certainly NOT getting carried either.

but here is a key. the ONLY reason i did it was becasue I wanted to run HARDER vet content. to do those farming runs? being able to do them and NOT get carried, because surprise - gear is a toll, not be all end all. i didn't NEED any of those sets.

but.. I'm not a new player anymore. I haven't been cp 160 in years. I mean, my side account is heading towards cp 160, but that's side account, primary has been ahead of cp increases for a while. my situation is NOTHING like that of a new player. and THAT. is the POINT.

an actual elite? understands it. narrow minded, myoptic elitists, think that everyone must just... appear wearing meta gear. somehow they should just pull a group to farm with out of their behind, somehow they need to get rng to cooperate, somehow ... and for what even? do you even know?

StormChaser3000

@Linaleah I wasn't complaining. I actually enjoyed to reach my goal fast and leave them to deal with the consequences. That was a reply to all carebears on that thread what might await them if they behave in a certain way.

So you enjoy running same vets over and over hundred times for the sake of a "challenge" and not gear? I guess no further comment needed.

Haha, a lot of carried ones even don't notice it and naively belive that it is they are so awesome.
Btw, can you honestly reply whether you can at least easily run solo all non dlc normal group dungeons that do not have group mechanics?

xaraan

I'm sure some enjoy the game while striving to be what they consider elite, but I'd say the OP is talking about the elitism attitude more than just personally being the best you want to be....

The biggest issue I see with the attitude is that most of the people that consider themselves elite - are not. And they care so much about being perceived as such that they often become toxic in the way they talk about others or give advice.

In the end, if you have someone new asking for build advice and your go-to is whatever the latest end game trial raider recommends on youtube, then you should probably stop offering that advice. Even people that mimic advice of a build from someone like Alcast often fail to bring up the fact that he points out changes that should be made given different needs or abilities to acquire gear and alternate versions of every one of his builds.

And if someone isn't running end-game Vet HM trials, then some of those types of gear recommendations is horrible advice. The only reason to wear Adv. Yokeda over Leviathan is because it is a proc and if someone isn't running a backbar master or MA bow, then they don't need to worry about having a proc set to stay up for when they swap, so farming it urgently isn't really a need and a build will be actually be stronger with Leviathan if they won't have those back bar choices anytime soon. If you don't understand the why for something being recommended, you should slow their recommendations a bit. And there are a lot of gear choices like that in the game - that only work to their max strength because of how you are using them with other gear sets or build choices.

DPS is important - to a point. Most of the time though, the biggest reason to stress over max dps to a point where it becomes more than just making yourself the best you can be is because you aren't good enough to deal with the mechanics of a fight. Certainly there are dps checks in the game on certain boss fights, but they are very, very reasonable. You don't need to push the numbers you see high end raiders talking about to clear those. BUT, it does make it easier when you can push past mechanics/phases and burning fights fast helps with resource management as well. But if you are so worried about hitting dps markers for you and your team that you are scared of having to do mechanics if you fail them, then you have bigger issues than DPS imo. Having to deal with mechanics more than you want might be inconvenient, but should never be more than that if you have the fight down and know how to deal with it.

Another thing to consider is the entire build of the team. The trial guild I'm in, we are pretty much raiding as friends, we don't have hardcore DPS checks, though we do have a reasonable amount we look for and we want to see someone in a run not failing constantly - that sort of stuff. And it ends there. We don't tell people what gear to run, what class to run. We do help others with builds and some guys are willing to swap around when meta changes, but we have been clearing vHM trials with stam in group, non-meta classes in group, etc. while others are saying it's just not done. BUT, in that type of scenario, you also see how needs can be very different. While every other group was doing vHM AS with 6-8 magblades throwing out constant hots on everyone in the group, we had 1 - and you see a huge difference in the amount of work the healers and tanks have to do in that situation, especially if you run with both types of teams at points. In the end, someone's needs for their build will vary. And you should be explaining the why's as much as the whats when you help someone with a build.

If you are trying to actively help someone, then make sure you consider what they will be using the build for and who they will run with. (Telling someone to drop vigor for caltrops is good on a target skele fight, but sometimes not so much in a real fight, especially if they are mostly pugging runs). If you have a chance to run with them, don't worry about putting out so much DPS to show off how big a % of the overall DPS you do, slow down and watch their rotation and in-fight decisions - if they need tips with that, it may supersede anything you could recommend about gear sets. And most of all, if you are just going to tell someone to run a build you are just using from some video and don't know all the reasons why things might work for you and not them or why other options might be even better, just point them to the source video and move on. Often those vid-makers will have other recommendations ready for different needs or even completely different builds offered that work better for what that player needs. If you do know the why's of running whatever gear/build you recommend - then tell the player those reasons as well so they understand how it's working so they can look at changes in the future on their own.

idk

zaria wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

You misunderstand everything. Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

So you want to fly from Fargo to Anchorage, you obviously use your private jet, don't understand the issue.
You might have to land and refuel if you has an wimpy Learjet like the other noobs.
For long flight like LA to London you might benefit of an first class or even slum in business class as it speed thing up but then you don't have your plane in London.
Yes it was a bit more useful than your post.

Maybe I missed something but this analogy has to be the most absurd I have seen in a long time. Somehow suggesting this pointless statement is more useful that one that actually has to do with the game kicks it up a notch from there.

I do not understand how this thread is even still alive. It merely seems that a player suggested a different set. A goal maybe. It is healthy for guild members to make a suggestion.

In fact, in a healthy guild players help others all the time. Players make comments and other players make suggestions in reply to those comments. Heck, players even have discussions on the subject.

I can say for a fact it happens in solid raid guilds constantly and I have seen it in healthy casual guilds. So go fly to neverland if you wish but the analogies above server no purpose.

Malmai

Raudgrani wrote: »

Saw some post on Facebook the other day, by a dude who just reached CP 160. He asked for someone to craft him Viper (yes) and Hunding's Rage; so i got the impression he didn't know very much and didn't really have any in-game friends. First thing people do, is saying he should go and farm Advancing Yokeda jewelry and daggers, and get Relequen and Velidreth and yada yada.... I was just like "Poor guy, he'd miss all the fun".
I have a problem to imagine someone CP 160 would see the "fun" in running some Craglorn trial(s) like 20-30 times (and then Cloudrest, and at least a vet run in Cradle of Shadows), because yes - that's what you're looking forward to if you want AY daggers (and jewelry). If you don't have the daggers, you are just as well (or better) off with some of the alternatives to AY.
I pointed that out, and was of couuuuurse met with the "laughing in tears" smileys, and "Craglorn trials is so easy! Noob! LOL" type of ridicule, just as if they completely missed the whole point; that they are turning new players away from the game with this stuck-up min/max elitist crap. Making people believe they NEED exactly that specific gear to play, or be welcome to do so. Making them think there are no people who never ran a vet trial, that everyone has (or even wants) "BIS gear" and so on. Everyone ain't into that, even though they played since the start of the game.

As a contrast to this, I'll tell you about a personal experience, from yesterday actually. I had this pretty boring "unkillable" PVP tank, that I felt like making something completely new and different.
I stripped him naked, and went through the chests in my house. Settled for a good old set of Vicious Ophidian, Briarheart and Sellistrix, dual wield and bow (was like level 3 on bow with this dude!).
I had hardly ever visited placed like Craglorn and Wrothgar with him, so I first went to Craglorn - just running blindly without even checking the map. I was doing some random questing, these world bosses and delves, "Group area bosses" and such (I died plenty to these, had forgot how hard some of those damn bosses are...), and did that Skyreach Citadell thing as a finisher.
Went to Wrothgar to do some delves and the world bosses. At the first one (Accursed Nursery), someone like level 320 or so showed up and invited me to group, and I was like "Yeah wtf. why not!?" (I normally never accept such invites today). He/she didn't talk (nor did I), we just did all the bosses without any communication before we split up.

To sum it up, I had the most fun I've had in a loooong time in this game. With a completely "non-meta" build, and just doing "easy noob stuff" and so on. Found places and saw stuff I don't even think I've ever seen before, or at least completely forgot about. It almost felt like when the game was new, and I'm gonna do the same thing tonight! F**k finish leveling that PVP defile/bleed build orc stamsorc, he can wait! :-D

Honestly, you should try it! Try making a completely nonsensical character with some odd monster set (and why don't you try some of those cheesy proc sets you never tried!?), use weapons/skills you normally don't use, and head out for some fun - because it really is that: Fun! :-)

LeL

Kikke

Tbh... I hate the term elitist, as it implies that the elitist is an elite. No elite recommends trial sets for a leveling person.

"Elitists" are avrage to bad players that found a builds the 'Elites' are using and spreading it as the only way to play always.

While an 'Elite' would give multiple builds options as they actually understand the game.

So here! Lets rename elitism too avrageism as it is a better term for what is actually going on.

Lab3360

Raudgrani wrote: »

Saw some post on Facebook the other day, by a dude who just reached CP 160. He asked for someone to craft him Viper (yes) and Hunding's Rage; so i got the impression he didn't know very much and didn't really have any in-game friends. First thing people do, is saying he should go and farm Advancing Yokeda jewelry and daggers, and get Relequen and Velidreth and yada yada.... I was just like "Poor guy, he'd miss all the fun".
I have a problem to imagine someone CP 160 would see the "fun" in running some Craglorn trial(s) like 20-30 times (and then Cloudrest, and at least a vet run in Cradle of Shadows), because yes - that's what you're looking forward to if you want AY daggers (and jewelry). If you don't have the daggers, you are just as well (or better) off with some of the alternatives to AY.
I pointed that out, and was of couuuuurse met with the "laughing in tears" smileys, and "Craglorn trials is so easy! Noob! LOL" type of ridicule, just as if they completely missed the whole point; that they are turning new players away from the game with this stuck-up min/max elitist crap. Making people believe they NEED exactly that specific gear to play, or be welcome to do so. Making them think there are no people who never ran a vet trial, that everyone has (or even wants) "BIS gear" and so on. Everyone ain't into that, even though they played since the start of the game.

As a contrast to this, I'll tell you about a personal experience, from yesterday actually. I had this pretty boring "unkillable" PVP tank, that I felt like making something completely new and different.
I stripped him naked, and went through the chests in my house. Settled for a good old set of Vicious Ophidian, Briarheart and Sellistrix, dual wield and bow (was like level 3 on bow with this dude!).
I had hardly ever visited placed like Craglorn and Wrothgar with him, so I first went to Craglorn - just running blindly without even checking the map. I was doing some random questing, these world bosses and delves, "Group area bosses" and such (I died plenty to these, had forgot how hard some of those damn bosses are...), and did that Skyreach Citadell thing as a finisher.
Went to Wrothgar to do some delves and the world bosses. At the first one (Accursed Nursery), someone like level 320 or so showed up and invited me to group, and I was like "Yeah wtf. why not!?" (I normally never accept such invites today). He/she didn't talk (nor did I), we just did all the bosses without any communication before we split up.

To sum it up, I had the most fun I've had in a loooong time in this game. With a completely "non-meta" build, and just doing "easy noob stuff" and so on. Found places and saw stuff I don't even think I've ever seen before, or at least completely forgot about. It almost felt like when the game was new, and I'm gonna do the same thing tonight! F**k finish leveling that PVP defile/bleed build orc stamsorc, he can wait! :-D

Honestly, you should try it! Try making a completely nonsensical character with some odd monster set (and why don't you try some of those cheesy proc sets you never tried!?), use weapons/skills you normally don't use, and head out for some fun - because it really is that: Fun! :-)

Im sorry he had that experience. People like that suck to be around in the game.
Mmos are littered with people like this and can make a horrible experience.

Next time you or anyone else run into this, please collect there psn.

I will pm you.

dazee

How do you think meta gets made? people try things until they find a great combo. if people only tried pre "tested" combos, nobody would know what to use becuase nobody would know whats best! its because of people who try new builds and gear combos that you vet trial runners get to speed run vet trials with overpowered builds!

MilwaukeeScott

zaria wrote: »

Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

I don't believe there's many of us in this thread that would agree with this statement.

zaria

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

You misunderstand everything. Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

So you want to fly from Fargo to Anchorage, you obviously use your private jet, don't understand the issue.
You might have to land and refuel if you has an wimpy Learjet like the other noobs.
For long flight like LA to London you might benefit of an first class or even slum in business class as it speed thing up but then you don't have your plane in London.
Yes it was a bit more useful than your post.

Maybe I missed something but this analogy has to be the most absurd I have seen in a long time. Somehow suggesting this pointless statement is more useful that one that actually has to do with the game kicks it up a notch from there.

I do not understand how this thread is even still alive. It merely seems that a player suggested a different set. A goal maybe. It is healthy for guild members to make a suggestion.

In fact, in a healthy guild players help others all the time. Players make comments and other players make suggestions in reply to those comments. Heck, players even have discussions on the subject.

I can say for a fact it happens in solid raid guilds constantly and I have seen it in healthy casual guilds. So go fly to neverland if you wish but the analogies above server no purpose.

Point is that telling an cp160 to get trial / vMA gear is just showing how cool you think you are. Not trying to be useful in any way, rater the opposite as he tries vMA and give up.
You recommend an crafted and an cheap overland set, then some easy to get monster sets.

And be a bit careful about listening to guild members, they can be good players but they might also not understand other builds, permablockig on last boss in Direfrost keep don't work well for magic builds
No they did not know about the boss healing effect so not so good after all but sounded like they knew it all.

Linaleah

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

You misunderstand everything. Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

So you want to fly from Fargo to Anchorage, you obviously use your private jet, don't understand the issue.
You might have to land and refuel if you has an wimpy Learjet like the other noobs.
For long flight like LA to London you might benefit of an first class or even slum in business class as it speed thing up but then you don't have your plane in London.
Yes it was a bit more useful than your post.

Maybe I missed something but this analogy has to be the most absurd I have seen in a long time. Somehow suggesting this pointless statement is more useful that one that actually has to do with the game kicks it up a notch from there.

I do not understand how this thread is even still alive. It merely seems that a player suggested a different set. A goal maybe. It is healthy for guild members to make a suggestion.

In fact, in a healthy guild players help others all the time. Players make comments and other players make suggestions in reply to those comments. Heck, players even have discussions on the subject.

I can say for a fact it happens in solid raid guilds constantly and I have seen it in healthy casual guilds. So go fly to neverland if you wish but the analogies above server no purpose.

Point is that telling an cp160 to get trial / vMA gear is just showing how cool you think you are. Not trying to be useful in any way, rater the opposite as he tries vMA and give up.
You recommend an crafted and an cheap overland set, then some easy to get monster sets.

And be a bit careful about listening to guild members, they can be good players but they might also not understand other builds, permablockig on last boss in Direfrost keep don't work well for magic builds
No they did not know about the boss healing effect so not so good after all but sounded like they knew it all.

THIS. so much this, for the love of god.

idk

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

You misunderstand everything. Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

So you want to fly from Fargo to Anchorage, you obviously use your private jet, don't understand the issue.
You might have to land and refuel if you has an wimpy Learjet like the other noobs.
For long flight like LA to London you might benefit of an first class or even slum in business class as it speed thing up but then you don't have your plane in London.
Yes it was a bit more useful than your post.

Maybe I missed something but this analogy has to be the most absurd I have seen in a long time. Somehow suggesting this pointless statement is more useful that one that actually has to do with the game kicks it up a notch from there.

I do not understand how this thread is even still alive. It merely seems that a player suggested a different set. A goal maybe. It is healthy for guild members to make a suggestion.

In fact, in a healthy guild players help others all the time. Players make comments and other players make suggestions in reply to those comments. Heck, players even have discussions on the subject.

I can say for a fact it happens in solid raid guilds constantly and I have seen it in healthy casual guilds. So go fly to neverland if you wish but the analogies above server no purpose.

Point is that telling an cp160 to get trial / vMA gear is just showing how cool you think you are. Not trying to be useful in any way, rater the opposite as he tries vMA and give up.
You recommend an crafted and an cheap overland set, then some easy to get monster sets.

And be a bit careful about listening to guild members, they can be good players but they might also not understand other builds, permablockig on last boss in Direfrost keep don't work well for magic builds
No they did not know about the boss healing effect so not so good after all but sounded like they knew it all.

It appears much is being read into what OP has stated. In fact it could very well be OP has over reacted to begin with. After all we only have half the story with likely a lot of context left out and a pretty lame story at that. If you think about it, what is the real purpose behind creating this thread to begin with? Exactly.

Yes, if someone that is new to the game mentioned a gear set to me I will ask the purpose and suggest something better. After all why be quiet and let them remain ignorant for awhile. A great many in a social guild I am in want to get the gear, they want to do trials. They do not want to be an ignorant player because someone kept their thoughts to themselves. Of course I do not know the type of guild OP is in and it could just be that type of guild. I was in a guild at launch where leadership created an environment that encouraged gearing badly.

Raudgrani

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

I never understood people who thinks you need to use poorly optimize gear and derp+die all the time, to have fun

It can be hilarious ofc, if you do it with the right company. But than it's about the company and the banter. If you used better gear and didn't die all the time, you'd probably still have fun and enjoy the experience.

Reason it's fun(for a veteran) to put on newbie gear and play aimlessly, is because it's a new and fresh experience. If you did it everyday for a week, you probably wouldn't feel it was the funniest experience you had in a "looong time". Stuff gets old pretty fast.

But I also enjoy doing it to once in a while, just roaming the world on a character that's far from optimized and see what happens. It's really relaxing, pretty immersive and far from normal gameplay where you feel forced to complete x things everyday.

You misunderstand everything. Asking an cp160 to get ravager and vma weapons is pretty idiotic.

So you want to fly from Fargo to Anchorage, you obviously use your private jet, don't understand the issue.
You might have to land and refuel if you has an wimpy Learjet like the other noobs.
For long flight like LA to London you might benefit of an first class or even slum in business class as it speed thing up but then you don't have your plane in London.
Yes it was a bit more useful than your post.

Maybe I missed something but this analogy has to be the most absurd I have seen in a long time. Somehow suggesting this pointless statement is more useful that one that actually has to do with the game kicks it up a notch from there.

I do not understand how this thread is even still alive. It merely seems that a player suggested a different set. A goal maybe. It is healthy for guild members to make a suggestion.

In fact, in a healthy guild players help others all the time. Players make comments and other players make suggestions in reply to those comments. Heck, players even have discussions on the subject.

I can say for a fact it happens in solid raid guilds constantly and I have seen it in healthy casual guilds. So go fly to neverland if you wish but the analogies above server no purpose.

Point is that telling an cp160 to get trial / vMA gear is just showing how cool you think you are. Not trying to be useful in any way, rater the opposite as he tries vMA and give up.
You recommend an crafted and an cheap overland set, then some easy to get monster sets.

And be a bit careful about listening to guild members, they can be good players but they might also not understand other builds, permablockig on last boss in Direfrost keep don't work well for magic builds
No they did not know about the boss healing effect so not so good after all but sounded like they knew it all.

It appears much is being read into what OP has stated. In fact it could very well be OP has over reacted to begin with. After all we only have half the story with likely a lot of context left out and a pretty lame story at that. If you think about it, what is the real purpose behind creating this thread to begin with? Exactly.

Yes, if someone that is new to the game mentioned a gear set to me I will ask the purpose and suggest something better. After all why be quiet and let them remain ignorant for awhile. A great many in a social guild I am in want to get the gear, they want to do trials. They do not want to be an ignorant player because someone kept their thoughts to themselves. Of course I do not know the type of guild OP is in and it could just be that type of guild. I was in a guild at launch where leadership created an environment that encouraged gearing badly.

Well, I'm not a calculating psychopath, so not everything I do have exact purposes. What instigated this post, was seeing a new player going like "Horray! Lvl 160, finally - can someone craft me...". He just wanted some new full level gear to go with having a "real" character, finally. He didn't ask for any "bis"/meta vet trial setup. But this was like the only thing I saw people suggest, it was quite literally "Go farm AY/Relequen or go home!".
This dude still has so much to see and experience in the game, and it's a shame people even suggest such a new player to go hardcore farming trial sets. It's stupid at best.

I also shared with you my own very recent experience, making an old PVP tank an "adventurer" instead, with whom I intend to do a lot of solo PVE content ahead. His damage isn't the best in the world (did 29k in all but weapons purple yesterday, I do 40k with my other PVE characters), but I'm still fine tuning it for being a quite tanky and stubborn solo adventurer. Not only solo though, even did vet Scalecaller and Falkreath last night with it; with a magsorc "offhealer", a roughly 350 all wrongly loaded out StamDK (he is hopeless and don't listen...), and a really good tank. Not a flawless "no death run" by any means, but I honestly think I did better than I would ("death wise") on my more dedicated DD stamwarden and stamblade, with such a ragged rickety oddball group.
I've also set a goal to kill every single worldboss solo with this one, and no - I would NOT be able of doing all of them with my "better" toons (they need pampering when there's no tank), I'm not that good. And it's all loads of fun, running around with a total abomination of a "mongrel dog DD" doing everything.
I highly suggest - and hope - people are not afraid to try stuff like that. It's sad that especially new players are very susceptible to such a jargon; they want to learn the game and listen to all that. There's no trial and error on their road (anymore). They are all cookie cutter guys now, or they even get demotivated and leave because they can't get what they "need to play the game". It doesn't have to be like that. You don't necessarily have to "endure" weeks of farming to finally enjoy the game. Games are meant to be fun.