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Why is the AD faction questline so much more of a coherant story?

worrallj
worrallj
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It really bums me out because I generally prefer DC, but it seems like both DC and EP questlines are totally disjoint with hardly any continuity between quests let alone zones. AD on the other hand seems to have been written with much more of a coherant rpg storyline philosophy where characters actually develop.

Best Answers

  • worrallj
    worrallj
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    JobooAGS wrote: »
    yodased wrote: »
    how do you mean? I think there are several factors though, razam'dar is generally a well liked and accepted character, kate beckinsale is the queen and there is very little time or space jumping involved.

    Its the closet to a traditional elder scrolls type story, DC has a lot of flashbacks and dream sequences and EP is a lot more magic based with less than stellar main NPCs.

    The DC hero is a bit of a twit as well, EP has the cool dark brotherhood chick, but she doesn't engage like raz does. Also you have supporting characters from AD that show up in the DLCs like stibbons, but you also have the worst twins ever running around.

    Stibbons, neramo, vivy, lady laurent and darien are all DC
    The dunmer twins and naryu are EP
    Raz, and that vampire hunter are AD

    Also naryu is morag tong

    It's not just that queen ayrenn and razumdar are well liked, it's that they're actually central characters to a real story arc. DC and EP barely have a main story, let alone main characters. Stibbons and all the others are recurring side attractions, not main characters. Darien comes close, but even he just kinda shows up from time to time without any rhyme or reason.
    Accepted Answer
  • yodased
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    how do you mean? I think there are several factors though, razam'dar is generally a well liked and accepted character, kate beckinsale is the queen and there is very little time or space jumping involved.

    Its the closet to a traditional elder scrolls type story, DC has a lot of flashbacks and dream sequences and EP is a lot more magic based with less than stellar main NPCs.

    The DC hero is a bit of a twit as well, EP has the cool dark brotherhood chick, but she doesn't engage like raz does. Also you have supporting characters from AD that show up in the DLCs like stibbons, but you also have the worst twins ever running around.

    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • JobooAGS
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    yodased wrote: »
    how do you mean? I think there are several factors though, razam'dar is generally a well liked and accepted character, kate beckinsale is the queen and there is very little time or space jumping involved.

    Its the closet to a traditional elder scrolls type story, DC has a lot of flashbacks and dream sequences and EP is a lot more magic based with less than stellar main NPCs.

    The DC hero is a bit of a twit as well, EP has the cool dark brotherhood chick, but she doesn't engage like raz does. Also you have supporting characters from AD that show up in the DLCs like stibbons, but you also have the worst twins ever running around.

    Stibbons, neramo, vivy, lady laurent and darien are all DC
    The dunmer twins and naryu are EP
    Raz, and that vampire hunter are AD

    Also naryu is morag tong
    Edited by JobooAGS on December 10, 2018 2:40AM
  • Aliyavana
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    yodased wrote: »
    how do you mean? I think there are several factors though, razam'dar is generally a well liked and accepted character, kate beckinsale is the queen and there is very little time or space jumping involved.

    Its the closet to a traditional elder scrolls type story, DC has a lot of flashbacks and dream sequences and EP is a lot more magic based with less than stellar main NPCs.

    The DC hero is a bit of a twit as well, EP has the cool dark brotherhood chick, but she doesn't engage like raz does. Also you have supporting characters from AD that show up in the DLCs like stibbons, but you also have the worst twins ever running around.

    naryu is morag tong, not dark brotherhood
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • McMasterx
    McMasterx
    Soul Shriven
    I haven't really delved into the Race relations too much. But from a badly observed Historical PoV:

    EP; seems to be made of of 2 races that HATE each other + some Nords.

    DC; Is made of 2 Races that hate strongly dislike each other (after one of them literally invaded the continent) + the Orcs they both collectively destroy every few decades.

    AD; The "Second Aldmeri Dominion" It worked before, and most some of them generally benefitted in 1 way or another from their previous Alliance.
  • Claudman
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    I hate Ebonheart Pact's plot, but love Daggerfall Covenant and Aldemeri Dominion (it isn't because I play on those factions in PvP because I wanted to like EP). Ebonheart Pact felt like it was written by someone who didn't understand the races they were writing for and the story of Stonefalls was literally repeated in the Rift.

    Apparently, Ebonheart Pact was the first faction to be written, The Daggerfall Covenant was second...And finally the Aldemeri Dominion. If this is true, it makes absolute sense that the EP plot was very novice in its quality (EP has a lot of cliches, plot holes, stuff that makes no sense lore/race wise, bad acting and bad storytelling...Don't get me started on the shoehorned interspecies relationships or lack of actual tension).
    Edited by Claudman on December 10, 2018 4:17PM
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

    I play healers often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP800+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
  • worrallj
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    Claudman wrote: »
    I hate Ebonheart Pact's plot, but love Daggerfall Covenant and Aldemeri Dominion (it isn't because I play on those factions in PvP because I wanted to like EP). Ebonheart Pact felt like it was written by someone who didn't understand the races they were writing for and the story of Stonefalls was literally repeated in the Rift.

    Apparently, Ebonheart Pact was the first faction to be written, The Daggerfall Covenant was second...And finally the Aldemeri Dominion. If this is true, it makes absolute sense that the EP plot was very novice in its quality (EP has a lot of cliches, plot holes, stuff that makes no sense lore/race wise, bad acting and bad storytelling...Don't get me started on the shoehorned interspecies relationships or lack of actual tension).

    That actually answers my question and makes total sense. What a shame though.
  • Claudman
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    worrallj wrote: »
    Claudman wrote: »
    I hate Ebonheart Pact's plot, but love Daggerfall Covenant and Aldemeri Dominion (it isn't because I play on those factions in PvP because I wanted to like EP). Ebonheart Pact felt like it was written by someone who didn't understand the races they were writing for and the story of Stonefalls was literally repeated in the Rift.

    Apparently, Ebonheart Pact was the first faction to be written, The Daggerfall Covenant was second...And finally the Aldemeri Dominion. If this is true, it makes absolute sense that the EP plot was very novice in its quality (EP has a lot of cliches, plot holes, stuff that makes no sense lore/race wise, bad acting and bad storytelling...Don't get me started on the shoehorned interspecies relationships or lack of actual tension).

    That actually answers my question and makes total sense. What a shame though.

    I'm actually working on a creative writing analysis on Ebonheart Pact covering all the cliches, lore inaccuracies and plot holes. I could share it when I'm finish.
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

    I play healers often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP800+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
  • SirAndy
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    worrallj wrote: »
    It really bums me out because I generally prefer DC, but it seems like both DC and EP questlines are totally disjoint with hardly any continuity between quests let alone zones. AD on the other hand seems to have been written with much more of a coherant rpg storyline philosophy where characters actually develop.

    AD and more specifically Auridon was the first real faction zone that ZOS developed during beta.
    Before that, we only had Bleakrock Isle and it was without any (faction based) main story line to speak of...

    So, my guess would be that they spent more time, effort and resources to flesh out that first story line than they did with any of the subsequent faction stories and quests.

    shades.gif

    Alzheimer kicking in, see post(s) below ... EP -> DC -> AD


    Edited by SirAndy on December 11, 2018 3:14AM
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  • SirAndy
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    AD and more specifically Auridon was the first real faction zone that ZOS developed during beta.
    Or do i have that backwards? I'll have to go back to my notes tonight (at work right now).

    Man, getting old sucks ...
    dry.gif
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  • SirAndy
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    AD and more specifically Auridon was the first real faction zone that ZOS developed during beta.
    Or do i have that backwards? I'll have to go back to my notes tonight (at work right now).

    Man, getting old sucks ...
    dry.gif

    Yepp, got it backwards:

    - EP - We started with Bleakrock Isle, then got Bal Foyen and Stonefalls
    - DC - Then got Glenumbra
    - AD - Auridon was last

    The max level was 17 back then ...
    w00t.gif
    Edited by SirAndy on December 11, 2018 3:15AM
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  • Korah_Eaglecry
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    My guess is that either the AD was the last story to be established, and they had refined their storytelling skills by then. Or it was the first story they had started with, and built the basis of ESO off of.

    Honestly though Im not really a fan of any of the storylines. EP is soulless and seems to focus entirely too much on outward threats. To the point that it comes off as if the writers forgot there was plenty of internal strife to go around with the three cultures and their history. I think a story of Argonians being forced to fight for the EP or being booted out with no where to go (much like we see hinted in the AD storyline), with crimes against them by Dunmer, it all going ignored by Nords would have been a more interesting tale. And much more in line with the themes we see in TES in general.

    DC was just bland, and besides Rivenspire I cant remember anything else about my time going through the DC storyline. I cant even remember why I kept going off to do quests for Emeric as he seemed to be the most boring character I had ran into up to that point. I couldnt tell if he was that bored with the conversation or he needed a nap. Always seemed like he was on the edge of a yawn.

    If AD was a little more controversial with the "good" characters like Queen Aryenn it would have been my favorite storyline.
    Edited by Korah_Eaglecry on December 11, 2018 4:43AM
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  • Joosef_Kivikilpi
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    TiaFrye wrote: »
    My first questline was EP, prior to One Tamriel, and I was legit bored. Like... hey, evil DC/AD renegate groups wants to kill us, and also king's brother, and also that boring worm cult dude you will never chose to save in Coldharbour. Deshaan was good, thanks to Morag Tong and Almalexia, villian was also motivated. Then I've jumped into Coldharbour and there was all these DC awesome dudes and I was sold in seconds. DC has all the cool stuff, it seems, and very well tied to main quest. Werevolves, vampires, necromansers and Imperials, as was pointed by someone above. And interesting charactes. Angof is ma dude, was very happy with his development in Coldharbour. That plot with Septima Tharn send to kill you because you're the Vestige. Ma dude Darien ofc, who is actually in all the right places in the story if you consider his heritage (summerset spoilers, abv). In general I felt on my place as Emeric's sort of left hand in DC, saving his arse.
    AD was too much about Ayrenn for me. Three locations' mq is mostly about her family issues, and all of the sudden they've remembered about bosmer and kajiit problems. Well done (no).
    But It's all subjective ofc.

    Dude, spot on about Darien, bro. He IS in all the right places considering. :) Need to choose one of my alts and play through all the stories again.
  • bongtokin420insd16
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    spoiler there are books about him in summerset and wrothgar in case you didn't know.
    Purple Gang, New Scrolls Order. DC Brotherhood
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    Bongtokin420insd PS4 NA
  • trowlk
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    True, Aldmeri Dominion had a very coherent story. You could feel the unification as you progress through the quests.

    Ebonheart Pact quests were more tragic, you could see the atrocities made by the Three Baner War on them.

    Daggerfall Covenant had a lot of memorable characters that I would certainly like to meet again.
  • Claudman
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    trowlk wrote: »
    True, Aldmeri Dominion had a very coherent story. You could feel the unification as you progress through the quests.

    Ebonheart Pact quests were more tragic, you could see the atrocities made by the Three Baner War on them.

    Daggerfall Covenant had a lot of memorable characters that I would certainly like to meet again.

    Tragic? The cardboard cut-outs for characters in Ebonheart Pact made me laugh. I felt no emotion for them. DC and AD I actually felt emotion for and again... I didn't want to hate EP, I wanted to like it, but the characters and story felt so shoddy compared to the other factions.
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

    I play healers often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP800+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
  • Robo_Hobo
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    AD does feel more connected indeed. It's the only faction that you would actually really have a hard time understanding things if you did the zones out of order.

    But DC is still probably my favorite. It's not as connected, but it still flows and references a lot of past events, and probably has some of my favorite moments out of the faction storylines. Looking back, they had already put references in for Darien being the chosen of Merida as far back as Glenumbra, with Darien being able to survive poisonous gas that no one else could, and another moment in Rivenspire too.

    I quite liked when going in to Bangkorai for the first time, the quest givers in Evermore having heard what my character did in other DC zones prior - and the finale was certainly one of my favorite moments to top it off. I still wish more NPC's were aware of the Vestige's ability to resurrect and try to do something to work around it like Septima did, it makes it difficult to appreciate the danger of a situation when knowing in canon the main character has an ability that would make most situations not very, well, dangerous.
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  • FrancisCrawford
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    worrallj wrote: »
    It really bums me out because I generally prefer DC, but it seems like both DC and EP questlines are totally disjoint with hardly any continuity between quests let alone zones. AD on the other hand seems to have been written with much more of a coherant rpg storyline philosophy where characters actually develop.

    Right, but the price is that the quests are repetitive and boring. (Go into the alternate reality to deal with a corruption.)

    The DC, by way of contrast, has a lot of good characters and story lines, including but not limited to:
    • The original heist on Stros M'Kai, with a LOT of good characters.
    • Darien
    • Gabriele
    • The Alcaire Castle story
    • Emeric
    • Verandis and his henchwomen
    • The Rivenspire story
    • The Evermore story
    • The final fight in Bangorkai

    I do think the EP is bad by any measure from beginning to end, except for Deshaan and a couple of Naryu appearances.
  • FrancisCrawford
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    I also got tired of Queen Mary Sue...

    How so? I really liked Ayrenn as a character at first, but she didn't really do very much other than in that one quest where you fight by her side. Eventually she didn't even seem to show up.

    I do think that Ayrenn + Razum-dar + the Green Lady(ies) were a great set of authority figure quest givers. I just think the other characters in the DC were much stronger -- Jakarn, the rest of Kaleen's group, Darien, Gabriele, Gloris Faustus (sp?), the comic characters (Stibbens/Laurent, harpy hunters), the priest who gave quests in the Alik'r Desert, and more. Even the public dungeons had good stories or characters or whatever (Alik'r Desert one excepted), although that was sometimes the case in other zones as well. (E.g., the Vile Manse is pretty cool.)
  • PrayingSeraph
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    I also got tired of Queen Mary Sue...

    How so? I really liked Ayrenn as a character at first, but she didn't really do very much other than in that one quest where you fight by her side. Eventually she didn't even seem to show up.

    I do think that Ayrenn + Razum-dar + the Green Lady(ies) were a great set of authority figure quest givers. I just think the other characters in the DC were much stronger -- Jakarn, the rest of Kaleen's group, Darien, Gabriele, Gloris Faustus (sp?), the comic characters (Stibbens/Laurent, harpy hunters), the priest who gave quests in the Alik'r Desert, and more. Even the public dungeons had good stories or characters or whatever (Alik'r Desert one excepted), although that was sometimes the case in other zones as well. (E.g., the Vile Manse is pretty cool.)

    Well the game tries hard to make her seem like a perfect kindhearted just queen who's only fault is that she's too trusting of others for her own good while the evil cardboard cutout racist altmer villains use this trust to kill her...and worship super evil daedra for no reason but to seem more evil....

    I felt like I was reading a fanfic of a tumblr user...

    If the player goes out of their way to think deeper about the alliances, the leaders and the alliance plotlines, I think there is a very good case to be made that Aryenn is an ignorant incompetent who built her dominion on a foundation as sturdy as quicksand...
    Edited by PrayingSeraph on December 18, 2018 4:50AM
  • SirAndy
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    If the player goes out of their way to think deeper about the alliances, the leaders and the alliance plotlines, I think there is a very good case to be made that Aryenn is an ignorant incompetent who built her dominion on a foundation as sturdy as quicksand...

    Or alternatively, if the player thinks like a real person he/she recognizes that Ayrenn is exactly the way the writers want her to be.

    They even named her after her own early story line, which i always thought was a nice touch ...
    shades.gif


    Edited by SirAndy on December 18, 2018 5:59AM
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  • PrayingSeraph
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    If the player goes out of their way to think deeper about the alliances, the leaders and the alliance plotlines, I think there is a very good case to be made that Aryenn is an ignorant incompetent who built her dominion on a foundation as sturdy as quicksand...

    Or alternatively, if the player thinks like a real person he/she recognizes that Ayrenn is exactly the way the writers want her to be.

    They even named her after her own early story line, which i always thought was a nice touch ...
    shades.gif


    Errr yes, a mary sue...like I initially said
  • Claudman
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    @PrayingSeraph

    That's every Alliance leader in this game. Vanilla ESO quests and characters aren't perfect (Ebonheart Pact being the absolute worst). I think Emeric was the best written in terms of character and Ayrenn isn't really that bad even though she's miss-goody-two-shoes.

    Jorunn was literally as flat as a board in terms of character. He was the worse out of the three and his voice actor didn't help either. He was just so...Boring and so forced to be this 'heroic' I'M-THE-HERO-NORD-MAN Skald. Also that drama with his brother was monotonous and forgettable like the rest of the Ebonheart Pact.

    Ayrenn is a good leader, but definitely not someone who is capable of "Down-To-Nirn" social interactions like Emeric.
    I think it's a bit much to say that Ayrenn is a 'Tumblr-Written-Character' for she's not flawless otherwise her Dominion would've been without flawed leadership (i.e. Hatchling Pools, 'Training Academy', Veiled Heritance, etc.). She's not the best written character, she's awfully average...But, she's certainly not the worst.

    If anything, Ebonheart Pact seems more fanfictiony with all the forced interspecies romances which hold no conflict, lack of racism which should've been prevalent with the Dunmer/Argonians, 'skimming of lore' and awful writing tropes. Ebonheart Pact was shown in its story to be an "innocent Alliance that's just trying to get by" while showcasing all the other Alliances as evil necromancers or Daedra worshippers.
    Edited by Claudman on December 18, 2018 12:06PM
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

    I play healers often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP800+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
  • VaranisArano
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    Queen Ayrenn wants to be a Mary Sue.

    She wants to be the runaway "Unforseen Queen" who comes back and saves the Dominion from their stuffy ways.

    And it all ends up with:
    crushing her little brother's dreams, her sister-in-law trying to kill her and take her throne, her brother trying to kill her and take her throne, eventually the Dominion in ruins, Ayrenn forced to use artifacts to sway people into agreeing with her, and her closest allies dead or coming to kill her.

    If not for the dedicated action of the Vestige and cooperation of King Camoran, the Green Lady and the Silvenar, and the Mane, Queen Ayrenn's Dominion would have failed miserably.

    Ayrenn is a hilariously flawed teenager who doesn't see past her own good intentions and dreams because she's so darned young. She wants to be a Mary Sue, but she's not Mary Sue-ish enough to actually pull it off on her own. It takes a lot of help and support from other characters to make the Dominion into something that can survive. On her own, Ayrenn wasnt going to be able to pull it of
  • Claudman
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    Queen Ayrenn wants to be a Mary Sue.

    She wants to be the runaway "Unforseen Queen" who comes back and saves the Dominion from their stuffy ways.

    And it all ends up with:
    crushing her little brother's dreams, her sister-in-law trying to kill her and take her throne, her brother trying to kill her and take her throne, eventually the Dominion in ruins, Ayrenn forced to use artifacts to sway people into agreeing with her, and her closest allies dead or coming to kill her.

    If not for the dedicated action of the Vestige and cooperation of King Camoran, the Green Lady and the Silvenar, and the Mane, Queen Ayrenn's Dominion would have failed miserably.

    Ayrenn is a hilariously flawed teenager who doesn't see past her own good intentions and dreams because she's so darned young. She wants to be a Mary Sue, but she's not Mary Sue-ish enough to actually pull it off on her own. It takes a lot of help and support from other characters to make the Dominion into something that can survive. On her own, Ayrenn wasnt going to be able to pull it of

    I think this is a pretty accurate interpretation of it.
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

    I play healers often for vet dungeons and trials (NA, CP800+). I play mostly elves or Argonians.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
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