Tanking Shortage in Random Dungeon Finder - Give tanks a dungeon preview

MartiniDaniels · December 2018

SickDuck wrote: »

People’s complaints about their poor pug experience have very little to do with queuing. The problem there is very simple and fully in the control of ZOS. The problem is that dungeons are not properly standardised in difficulty. When you queue for a random run you may hope for FG1 but end up in FH or MoS. Then you start to complain about lowbies who might have wanted to run FG1 too but ended up with a hard dlc.

If ZOS could finally sort out the difficulty issues, tiers and rewards for running higher risk and/or longer dungeons I bet complaints would go down.

They can select FG1 and similar and queue exactly to it. Daily random reward was created for experienced players to fill the empty places in groups searching for specific. So person should first run all the specific dungeons, learn their mechanics and requirements and only then go for random queue, prepared for any dungeon. Still, I agree of course that this is stupid that MHK and FG1 are in same group finder.. given that MHK is more difficult then any vet1.

VaranisArano · December 2018

Digiman wrote: »

Right, and tanks that don't block because they expect the healer to heal them while ordering the DPS to burn down the boss faster? That's never happened right? /sarcasm

Heh, you laugh, but on one memorable occasion tanking vet ICP for my IRL friends, I plumb forgot I could block red conal attacks from the first boss instead of having to dodge them like AOEs.

Many laughs and facepalms were had when I realized my mistake!

cheifsoap · December 2018

I don't queue anymore because I'm tired of DPS not carrying their weight. Even mentioning this blasphemy risks being called "elitist", "toxic", and other asinine insults.

Vuron · December 2018

How about the DPS that do carry their weight. Do you think it was fun for me as a DPS to get pulled into Darkshade 2 at the netch boss and do 87% of the DPS? Then, to make things even more fun, during the next fight with the million dwarven mobs, the tank literally runs into the middle of the entire group and pulls everything at once? Somehow, I managed to kill everything. Then, the other DPS decided to summon his merchant while the rest of us ran into the boss room, locking him out of the fight?

At least if one of you awesome tanks leave, you can instantly find a new group where I'm going to be sitting in queue for another 30 minutes or more.

I'm starting to get tired of the tanks complaining about DPS when they dont feel the need to group up any of the mobs. Most current DPS builds are now designed around AoE and DoTs. If you make your DDs do single target damage against every piece of trash scattered all over the room than it's your own fault.

Friggin. Tanks.

josiahva · December 2018

thanoscopter wrote: »

Not going to beat around the bush here. If you use Dungeon Finder it's clear that DPS and healers are waiting around in queue for a tank in order to start. As a tank, with numerous tanks on my account, I have taken the option to leave groups with issues since I can just log on a different tank and "try again". Still, I do find myself being thrown in the same exact dead end dungeon even up to 15-30 minutes later, which emphasizes how severe this shortage really is.

Low CP group trying to do DLC? I'll pass. Combined group DPS looking suspect on the first pull of a Vet Dungeon? I'm out of there. Partially cleared dungeon and/or struggling on a boss which resulted in previous tank leaving? Unless I want a drop, no amount of sweet talking in the first 10 seconds is retaining my services.

If nothing about this is done the leaving will continue and I'm sure there will be even more "fake tanks" that I see players raging about on these forums. The tanking shortage is a huge issue that most players are out of touch with because clearly most players aren't tanks. Tanks basically have a near instant queue all day and every day precisely because very little people play tanks and therefore understand the issues.

I propose that tanks, especially paying ESO+ members who have to deal with DLC randoms, be given a dungeon preview. I would want to see which dungeon, if it is partially completed, the time the players have been in there and the CP levels. This would give incentive to more tanks and get the potential groups in limbo actually moving. Let tanks decline these potential dungeons if we aren't comfortable with them.

I'd rather spend an extra 5 minutes finding a group that shows promise than being instantly thrown into a mess half the time. One thing is for sure, giving us a 15 minute cooldown for leaving a weak group is not helping move things along in Dungeon Finder, it is quite the opposite actually.

No. If you are having problems pugging...dont pug. If you cant handle a low-DPS group every once in awhile, pugging is not for you. I tank with low DPS groups all the time, and while it certainly takes longer, the dungeons can still be done.

Wrathmane · December 2018

josiahva wrote: »

No. If you are having problems pugging...dont pug. If you cant handle a low-DPS group every once in awhile, pugging is not for you. I tank with low DPS groups all the time, and while it certainly takes longer, the dungeons can still be done.

Agreed, I've tanked low dps groups successfully, it can be time consuming, and challenging, but doable for the most part. The DLC vets are another monster however, of you pull a vet DLC random, like Fang lair or Moon Hunter, I will usually give till the first boss, before I make my mind up on our success chances. I've been in Pug groups where as the tank I was pulling 50% of the damage, which is ok in BC 1 but in Vet Scalecaller Peak, I don't rank the groups chances of being to high.

DoobZ69 · December 2018

You people have the option to kick and to leave. Every role in a dungeon should be able to do their job, scaling from easier to harder depending on design. Someone isn't doing their job? Vote to kick them. Vote doesn't work? Then put up with Democracy or leave, you're not forced to continue.
In normal dungeons anything goes and its easy to carry someone, I was soloing some of them with my below 50 tank when the team wipes, didn't even bother rezzing as it takes longer.
But if you queue up to a vet dungeon and you are below 160 then I instantly vote to kick. Their gear drops will be of no use to me for farming purposes so I see no reason to carry them and I am doing a pledge, not a training session. In every other scenario you have to give them a chance.
Also the only reason there are no tanks, according to the class reps, is because DK are the only class with Engulfing Flames, so changing anything else is pointless.

John_Falstaff · December 2018

DoobZ69 wrote: »

But if you queue up to a vet dungeon and you are below 160 then I instantly vote to kick. Their gear drops will be of no use to me for farming purposes so I see no reason to carry them and I am doing a pledge, not a training session. In every other scenario you have to give them a chance.

Mm-m, with all respect, why would you care about the level of their gear? It's - well, you know - their gear. ^^ They're not on a farm run, let alone on your farm run. You are. ^^ They joined you to perform their roles.

I'm also not sure why members below CP160 automatically make it a training run. We once dragged a randomly chosen ~CP140 newbie healer into vICP HM (had to manually teleport there), finished Lord Warden from second attempt, he instantly got grasp on mechanics and followed it without a hitch.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

I play the game for fun, personally.

If I got upset at the game I would no longer be having fun and would quit. Though I'd never rage quit a team of course.

DoobZ69 · December 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

DoobZ69 wrote: »

But if you queue up to a vet dungeon and you are below 160 then I instantly vote to kick. Their gear drops will be of no use to me for farming purposes so I see no reason to carry them and I am doing a pledge, not a training session. In every other scenario you have to give them a chance.

Mm-m, with all respect, why would you care about the level of their gear? It's - well, you know - their gear. ^^ They're not on a farm run, let alone on your farm run. You are. ^^ They joined you to perform their roles.

I'm also not sure why members below CP160 automatically make it a training run. We once dragged a randomly chosen ~CP140 newbie healer into vICP HM (had to manually teleport there), finished Lord Warden from second attempt, he instantly got grasp on mechanics and followed it without a hitch.

Sure, the gear isn't "mine". If an item drops and its CP 150 and its something I ran the dungeon for 50 times, for example BSW Inferno staff, then it is virtually useless to me. You're not forced to swap but hoping to get something while knowing you're not going to share back is selfish.

They're not geared for it, they can't share gear, they generally get carried. Under 160 does not belong in Vet, period. It isn't impossible but no-one should have to feel pressured or guilty to carry them.

A low CP group who is doing a Vet dungeon will struggle. Expecting them to carry someone who is not even levelled for it and whom they can get no gear swap out of is just silly. And for what purpose exactly? The same gear dropped in Normal would be blue and is easily upgraded to Purple. Why the hell are you running Vet? Sorry, but not sorry.

Daedric_NB_187 · December 2018

The fact that you think the devs would actually consider some bs like this is lol worthy.

idk · December 2018

Digiman wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

People people.... these are all terrible ideas!

The solution would be to provide a group buff to 4 mans that increase healing, damage or survivability if a player with a role can't be found.

IF A TANK CAN'T BE BOTHERED STAYING FOR A FEW RUNS TO HELP A GROUP,

THEN THEY DON'T DESERVE TO BE CONSIDERED NEEDED FOR THAT GROUP!

If dps don't bother to prepare for his role why tank should bother to "help a group"? For polite and clever newbies - I'll always help and tell them about mechanics, but if we have cp100+ lazy *** why he need any help. It's L2P issue.

Yes, how can they L2P when no one gives the new guys the experience.

Tanks are nothing special, don't know why this game is so gun how the holy trinity, they should just absolve the situation by providing buffs to groups that are missing roles.

It is called joining a guild. As I have stated, decent players are already in guilds. It is why a decent player is rarely found in GF to begin with.

Those that can use experience and a little help would benefit greatly from running with guilds. There are plenty of good social guilds for players to get their start, and that little help to improve.

TheGreatBlackBear · December 2018

I pug all the time on vet while tanking. It's fun meeting new people. If I'm having problems one specific DPS I'd vote to kick if it's the entire group I'll just leave. And by problems I mean other DD using a S&B or an ice staff, spamming light attacks on a bow in a vet dlc dungeon or the healer using a 2h and spamming the selfish morph or vigor. I don't kick vote or quit for small ***.

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2018

Unless it's a vet dungeon with a dps check or a vet dlc dungeon, I don't bother vote kicking. It almost never works anyway because usually 2 people are friends, or one person will vote no because they don't want to be "elitist" and will gladly spend 3 or more hours of the 24 they have in a vet dungeon that can be completed in 40-60 minutes if the terrible dps would listen to any of my advice. But as a healer main who heals the twins on vMoL while watching youtube, I will leave so they can be matched with a pug healer who's a good fit for them: one that doesn't throw orbs/shards and only spams rapid regen. If people don't want to accept advice, they can accept defeat. I'll just hop on my other healer and try again. I honestly feel bad for good tanks in this game. If I ever make a tank, I will never pug.