Well, a preview isn't gonna show me whether the people in the group are total idiots.

I rather run a dungeons with slightly below average dps, compared to doing it with flaming trash-talking morons or just disrespectful people(like this guy recently going afk for 25 minutes because some kid wanted ice cream)

I understand that kids naturally wants ice cream all the time, but maybe not start a VR dungeon when in charge of a demanding kid, go afk before last boss and waste everyone else's time?

Anyway, main reason I'm only tanking on a few characters really is lack of dual specs though. If I could have or save multiple setups for skills, morphs, stat points and CP, I'd definitely tank more. To much work changing a bunch of stuff, only to tank a daily, than changing it all back.

Kel wrote: »

I keep seeing the complaint about low cp players in vet random dlc dungeons. Someone posted they had a cp20 in there...

How?

I thought Zos put a cap at 300 cp on queuing for these dungeons.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408597/veteren-dlc-dungeons-require-you-to-be-cp300

I think someone's exaggerating to make a point...

Not that cp is any indication of skill. If anything, the cap proves it's not. But why exaggerate?

Its possibly to have a low CP player in the group for a Vet DLC dungeon, they just can't have used groupfinder to get there.

Though why a low CP player would deliberately join up for a Vet DLC dungeon group is a good question.

Well it think they could impliment a system where it gives tanks or healers whatever is needed more in the que a bonus reward. Maybe give them a double box for finishing an instance.

The only thing we need to do as a community is to start kicking DPS that que as a tank. Nothing is more annoying than that and there is no real way to say they are not a tank so it falls on us. The more we finish dungeons like this the more people will do it because we are allowing them.

idk wrote: »

thanoscopter wrote: »

idk wrote: »

thanoscopter wrote: »

Final boss comes, DPS S&B guy is still taunting, dies to boss early into fight. I'm only one who bothers to rez him. Guy dies again 10 seconds later to an AOE. I figure it's quicker to just keep DPSing than rez this fellow again.

My thought was why res him to begin with.

I do not do it to be rude but sometimes those I run with, we queue with only 3 of us just to see what we get. If the pug is an issue and they die I tell my group not to res them. It is not intended to be rude but the best use of our time. I have yet to have anyone complain about that. If anything we are thanked for our clear and for explaining the fights.

I rezzed him purely out of sympathy and hoping he would learn some mechanics. I actually would have rezzed him an unlimited amount of times if he was more respectful, took off his sword & board and stopped taunting...but he just wanted to be hard carried I think.

Well, at least you don't vote kick em either, I think not rezzing them is a good solution and maybe some incentive for them to improve.

No, I see no point to kicking a player unless they are an ass, which does occur sometimes.

However, I do assess their contribution and when dealing with some HM fights where mechanics can be an issue when not followed, like the fight you discussed, I tend to not have the team res a player like you described. There is nothing redeeming about that player since they clearly did not listen to the stop taunting request.

If it's a hard mode where rezzing him would have been risky as a tank (e.g. Fang's Lair) I wouldn't have done it. However, this guy woulda been booted on first trash pull of vet Fang's Lair. I simply can't die on most base vet dungeon HMs. This is why I queue up as a real tank and not a fake one. I might find myself in situations where I'm the only one standing and rezzing the entire team; I have had hard modes go this route and salvaged them.

You are only looking at this from a speed run perspective with your 2 buddies. The healer and myself both made it apparent this guy wasn't real DPS about 30 seconds into the run. The other DPS said he was doing 75% of the damage but did not initiate a vote kick. Therefore, we agreed to deal with him.

I gave him the best advice about not using a S&B as a DPS. If that's all he brought to the run though, he can't exactly whip out golden AY daggers and fix that instantly. Yeah, I wasted 10 seconds rezzing him, the other two guys who also agreed to carry him can mail me a bill. Rezzing him was for his own benefit, not speeding up the run.

Back to the point. Why can't real tanks be somewhat guaranteed to be paired with real DPS and real healers with a group preview? We are in high demand and want assurances we are getting a legit group. Contrary to what others claimed, my tank queues are still instant. I reckon the tanks with longer queues are trying to queue for Vet Blood Root Forge or Falkreath Hold when it isn't even the pledge.

siddique wrote: »

I joined in the middle of March of Sacrifices because everyone abandoned the tank. More people joined in, eventually we had to vote the tank out.

Why? Because he wasn't listening to anything. He wasn't a tank, was a WW. And he would attack boss without everyone ready and then die and become a liability.

After the boot, a new tank came and we finished it.

Okay, but that is more of an issue of a DPS player queuing as a tank to bypass the long wait time. Giving him a preview and option of potential dungeons would have prevented issues. He could have chosen something like Fungal Grotto I where he could have succeeded even as a werewolf. Instead, he fake tanked into a DLC dungeon he had no business entering and wasted everyone's time.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

A lot of tanks are like this, currently. Since they are in such demand they have no patience for beginner groups and just "instance jump" till they find a solid group.

Thats not true. I have no issue to go through a beginners group and teach them, while I am the tank even if that is the "random normal". (usually I use the random finder on vet).

What I do not have patience to do, is to have 2 Damage dealers who can barely kill the 3m dummy in 24 hours, doing light attacks (bow, fire staff usually) only. And this is completely nerve breaking not only on some difficult boss with mechanics (even on normal) like the Plannar Inhibitor (WGT) but tough trash mobs in Imperial Prison. (normal mode)

Even tonight, knowing how bad the dps was in normal Imperial Prison, I said to them, going to drag all trash mobs on me, run behind me and don't fight.
What the rest did? stuck on the other side of the U gorge, for 20 minutes trying to kill the first watcher. I gave up and quit.

And veteran mode things are even worse. Bogdan in vEH2, beats to submission the CP800 vampire noobs, who after a long grind think they can just go into a dungeon and "win" without fire glyph. Same applies to Rilis on vBC2

God forbid is "DLC" dungeon, even on normal takes hours with PUG. Especially when some queue with fake healers, yet they cannot even do damage.

But it is true.

I've lost count how many tanks I've seen just abandon the group at the very beginning due to CP levels alone - not even giving players a chance (and usually after they initiate a vote kick that fails). Or maybe they'll wait to leave after the first pull because God forbid it takes a few more seconds to kill everything then they feel it should.

I"m glad you don't do this. But unfortunately that doesn't change how many other tanks behave. The fact they are in such demand has a lot of them... actually never mind. In the interests of being "productive" I'll refrain from finishing that sentence.

Jeremy wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

idk wrote: »

As someone with multiple tanks I just do not understand the issue OP is having.

Oh, I understand their issue. It's pure toxicity.

They don't want to get matched in with players who don't meet their exacting, and unrealistic, demands. They're asking for the ability to play kingmaker in the random vet queue; because, as the tank, their time is more valuable than the mere mortals queuing for DPS.

Well I'm glad you said it for me. ^^

We don't always agree (in fact we rarely do). But on this issue we're in complete agreement.

Are you guys sure you aren't confusing an unwillingness to put up with nonsense with toxicity? I do a lot of PUGs. I've leveled over 8 tanks to Undaunted 9 mostly in PUGs because I can join a vet PUG at any time on my schedule.

I've seen a lot more of the bad and the good in the group finder than most commentating here. That's because I actually use the group finder tool heavily unlike others giving advice yet stating they barely PUG or use this feature because they get their guildies instead.

I've put up with a lot of subpar groups and carried them. I got to say, if a tank leaves, they are usually justified in their decision. A tank should not have to wear DPS sets to carry DPS players in a vet dungeon, group finder or not.

So why is it perfectly okay for you guys to boot a fake tank but not okay for a real tank to leave a group of fake DPS? Seems like a double standard here.

I think they should remove DLC dungeons from the normal queue. then they need to require a taunt on your bar before you can queue as tank. Then they reward the tank if they complete the dungeon. extra transmute stones, or something like that. perhaps better stuff for DLC and Vet content, like a mystery box w/o the rare motifs, that has bonus xmute stones and other nice things. Outside of things that would simply kill the market, I'm totally for giving tanks real nice bennies for completing dungeons.

And then they should institute a vote system. did they player play their role well and contribute to the run? Did they fulful their role and support the group? One vote per person, tallied votes determine whether you win the vote for that run or not. since you have 3 others voting on you, 2 out of the 3 determines your "vote score" for that run.

good vote score a bonus item on your package you get when you queue. bad votes gain nothing but stack, and increase penalty times when you drop group, and push you back in queue priority no matter what role you pick. Thus someone with a large amount of negative votes will have longer queue times, even as a tank (still probably shorter then most DPS), and have longer penalties when they drop group. This would affect everyone, even tanks, so no bias here. just a REAL reward and penalty system for people being complete jerks.

this wouldn't be a huge issue with just a few bad votes, and should scale so that once you get into 10 negative votes or so you start to see the penalty become impacting. It should be so small that your penalized if you get unlucky and a few people either decided to screw you over, or simple misunderstandings. And depreciation should be one or two per week, so you have a steady decay rate, but if you are too much of a jerk, it will add up fast. more positive votes could increase the decay rate I suppose, but that would have to be tweaked so players who act horrid in PuG's but get upvoted during guild content can't abuse the system.

Oh, and if you drop a group, it's automatically 3 bad votes on you. Cause the whole concept of this behavior is horrid and selfish and DEFINITELY does not need to be rewarded. What we need to do is reward tanks positively for doing good behaviors, and figure out a way to penalize people for doing bad behaviors, DPS included. thus the vote system.

And as a caveat, I recognize that any system has it's weak points, and nothing will completely wipe out bad behavior and people acting selfish like the OP. But the better systems encourage the good, whilst discouraging the bad, and let those who simply want to be complete Jerkwads deal with the penalties.

I have no trouble finding a group....but, yeah, I'm a tank... perhaps try out something other than the meta??

@thanoscopter
Honestly I'd tank more often if there was an option to auto put on my tanking CP/armor without it costing me 6k everytime (3k to go to tanking setup and back to PvP setup).

If ZOS could give me that option I'll honestly tank any incompetent group and trust me I've dealt with plenty even with times where I had to heal with vigor or put DW on my backbar since DDs weren't cutting it.

Kanar wrote: »

As a DD who sometimes tanks, yeah the problem is crappy DDs. It has totally killed my desire to tank, even with the instant queue. It is just so fruatrating to get stuck with 20k (or less sometimes) group DPS.

I'd rather wait an hour as DD.

An aggressive tank setup can pull 20k dps.

usmcjdking wrote: »

I don't have this issue.

I also don't walk into a pug with Ebon & Alkosh and expect great things to happen.

Exactly this. Don't take full on trial tank setups into PUGs. Be more flexible with your perception of tanking and gear up for more damage.
Worst case you can swap back to proper tanking gear on the last boss.

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

Meanwhile...

24 minute queue for vet dungeon as a tank on PC NA at the moment... O.o

Queue Twilight Zone music.

I had a long queue as healer the other night on PC/NA. It surprised me even though I was queu

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

I keep seeing the complaint about low cp players in vet random dlc dungeons. Someone posted they had a cp20 in there...

How?

I thought Zos put a cap at 300 cp on queuing for these dungeons.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/408597/veteren-dlc-dungeons-require-you-to-be-cp300

I think someone's exaggerating to make a point...

Not that cp is any indication of skill. If anything, the cap proves it's not. But why exaggerate?

Its possibly to have a low CP player in the group for a Vet DLC dungeon, they just can't have used groupfinder to get there.

Though why a low CP player would deliberately join up for a Vet DLC dungeon group is a good question.

An even better question is why somebody committed to a tanking build and playstyle would queue as DPS, as per the anecdote earlier in this thread ... oh, wait, I can answer that -- the player probably didn't understand about queuing for different roles, or else made a mistake queuing and wasn't willing to admit it or deal with its consequences.

I think a group preview is becoming more and more necessary every time I queue up. I just got in on a Blessed Crucible where in the first 2 minutes there was a huge fight. A CP810 DPS tried to vote kick a CP72 healer. The healer stated he could do the dungeon, I said to give him a chance and voted to NOT kick him. The end result was both the CP810 then the CP72 leaving after throwing some insults our way.



I know a lot of boys on this forum would have clicked yes to vote kick the low CP guy, but it just felt like the wrong thing to do. I understand there is no easy answer for this, but if there was a preview we would at least see a lot less of the toxicity and people behaving like animals.

Ultimately, a replacement was found in < 1 minute due to the DPS surplus, but two players chose to eat a 15 minute cooldown rather than co-exist for 15 minutes. Is this a healthy system?

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Just got queued on my hybrid tank in Darkshade caverns 2 with cp16, cp20 and cp 158.

After first group of mobs, cp158 asked wtf when I'll began tanking. I left him to explore that wonderful dungeon with all those irritating (for newbie dps guys) mechanics on his own and went to complete a couple of New year writs, after that immediately got to CoA2 with cp810 dps which killed so fast that dung was completed in 10 minutes max. It's good to be a tank

CoA II is a long dungeon