So now we're gambling for currency

Kiralyn2000 · December 2018

daemonios wrote: »

With microtransactions you get a variety of experiences, but in the case of ESO it's a bottomless pit, i.e. there is no limit to how much you can spend. There is no connection between what you pay and the cost of what you get, because you're paying for pixels/bits that cost around $0 to produce after the initial cost of developing them. The incentive is for the publisher to maximize store sales, and it does that using dubious tactics such as time-limited events, multiple-tiered currencies, random loot boxes (gambling), all in a market that they control 100%, i.e. in a monopoly. This hurts players: they pay more than they would otherwise. . .

Maybe it's because I've played actually bad f2p/b2p games, so I have something to contrast the Crown Store against.

I don't see it as a "bottomless pit" that players have to throw endless money into. Because, once again, it's all optional stuff.

It's not, say, crafting consumables that are utterly required in order to have a chance of golding your gear (see: every Eastern MMO with an "enchanting" system; bonus points for ones you need to upgrade your gear to +15, with the chance of success dropping down into the 1% range on the final steps, with the chance of losing enchantment on a failure, unless you buy cash shop upgrade boosters.)

It's not, say, an open-world/ffa pvp game, where you need to buy "insurance" consumables from the cash shop to keep people from taking your +15 enchanted gear off your corpse; along with cash shop hp/mp potions that go off automatically when you need them in pvp.

It's not SWTOR, where you needed to pay to unlock the ability to even equip top-rarity gear, and have a carried-gold-limit that's below most useful items on the auction house and even many things buyable from vendors.

And I'll always remember the one time I tried an Aeria-published game. Not only did the cash shop have many of the things I just listed. Along with multiple different lockboxes that included faster/better mounts and the only way to get permanent pack & bank increases (the regular cash shop storage increases were just monthly rentals). But also included "Tiered Spender" and "Ladder" monthly contests, where if you spent enough, you'd get bonus prizes. With contest tiers that reached $1k-1.5k+. In a month. And included top prizes like ""ask a GM for a favor" and "be handed the +15 piece of BiS gear you want". With new contests every month.

So, yeah. ESO has some stupidly expensive, totally optional and un-needed cosmetic mounts & houses? Whatever. I'll just keep wondering why people get so worked up over it, and why people actually buy the stupid crap. Just like I wonder why idiots IRL spend $200 on a pair of shoes with some basketball player's name on it, or $400 for pre-damaged pants or lace underwear, etc. The world is full of silly-priced "luxury" goods that no-one needs.

(full disclosure of my ESO expenses: I bought the game in April 17, probably on sale. $10? I subbed for a couple months. I bought the Summerset & Free Morrowind pre-order. And I bought 3k crowns for $16 during the '17 Black Friday sale. Still have like 1500 crowns left, after buying some cheap costumes and four DLC during sales. TG/DB/Orsinium/Clockwork)

Joy_Division · December 2018

Nvm.

Juju_beans · December 2018

EphemeraCrawford wrote: »

We have items that can only be obtained through gems, which can only be obtained through gambling boxes. So if we give them real money, they pay in-game currency out at a random rate of exchange based on box contents.

Imagine paying $15 and getting a random amount of crowns. Maybe you'll get 1500, or maybe 50 depends on the RNG.

These gem exclusive offerings are encouraging some pretty shady practices.

Why do you feel mandated to spend money on crates so you can get gems so you can buy cosmetic stuff ?
If you don't like it then don't do it.

I only get gems from the free crates they give us every now and then.
But I have no issue with them selling crates. Also don't care about players that spend a lot of money on buying crates.
It's their money to spend.

Ashilda_Dragonheart · December 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Honestly I don't play the game at all anymore because it's just too much money.

Ashilda_Dragonheart · December 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

iiYuki wrote: »

It’s not like you have to take part in it.

They are cosmectics, won’t alter gameplay itself at all, and are completely optional.

SHILL ALERT! SHILL ALERT! Its only cosmetic! so that makes gambling and charging insane amounts of money for reskins alright in a game we already paid £40-£100 for, plus £10-£90 for each DLC after, plus a Subscription that's optional but if you dont have it you need multiple mule accounts for crafting on,

1) Yes, the fact it's cosmetic and totally un-needed makes it fine. Unlike the games that have stuff you actually do need for sale.

2) You don't remotely need multiple accounts to craft without ESO+. Yes, you need to level your bank up, and having some alts with skilled-up riding capacity helps, but it still works. The periodic "free ESO+" trials help, because it means that you can shove all the crafting mats that have stored up since the last time, into the crafting bag.
(yes, I craft. yes, I've got lots of materials. No, I don't have multiple accounts, heck I'm not even using all the original 8 character slots.)

No matter what the situation is, paying real money for an appearance change token to just change your character's appearance is lousy. So is paying a ridiculous amount of money for Crown crates and getting nothing good except for maybe one crappy costume you didn't care at all about, or getting a bunch of items you already had. And the Crown Store is really what the devs focus on, instead of the gameplay.

daemonios · December 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

With microtransactions you get a variety of experiences, but in the case of ESO it's a bottomless pit, i.e. there is no limit to how much you can spend. There is no connection between what you pay and the cost of what you get, because you're paying for pixels/bits that cost around $0 to produce after the initial cost of developing them. The incentive is for the publisher to maximize store sales, and it does that using dubious tactics such as time-limited events, multiple-tiered currencies, random loot boxes (gambling), all in a market that they control 100%, i.e. in a monopoly. This hurts players: they pay more than they would otherwise. . .

Maybe it's because I've played actually bad f2p/b2p games, so I have something to contrast the Crown Store against.

I don't see it as a "bottomless pit" that players have to throw endless money into. Because, once again, it's all optional stuff.

It's not, say, crafting consumables that are utterly required in order to have a chance of golding your gear (see: every Eastern MMO with an "enchanting" system; bonus points for ones you need to upgrade your gear to +15, with the chance of success dropping down into the 1% range on the final steps, with the chance of losing enchantment on a failure, unless you buy cash shop upgrade boosters.)

It's not, say, an open-world/ffa pvp game, where you need to buy "insurance" consumables from the cash shop to keep people from taking your +15 enchanted gear off your corpse; along with cash shop hp/mp potions that go off automatically when you need them in pvp.

It's not SWTOR, where you needed to pay to unlock the ability to even equip top-rarity gear, and have a carried-gold-limit that's below most useful items on the auction house and even many things buyable from vendors.

And I'll always remember the one time I tried an Aeria-published game. Not only did the cash shop have many of the things I just listed. Along with multiple different lockboxes that included faster/better mounts and the only way to get permanent pack & bank increases (the regular cash shop storage increases were just monthly rentals). But also included "Tiered Spender" and "Ladder" monthly contests, where if you spent enough, you'd get bonus prizes. With contest tiers that reached $1k-1.5k+. In a month. And included top prizes like ""ask a GM for a favor" and "be handed the +15 piece of BiS gear you want". With new contests every month.

So, yeah. ESO has some stupidly expensive, totally optional and un-needed cosmetic mounts & houses? Whatever. I'll just keep wondering why people get so worked up over it, and why people actually buy the stupid crap. Just like I wonder why idiots IRL spend $200 on a pair of shoes with some basketball player's name on it, or $400 for pre-damaged pants or lace underwear, etc. The world is full of silly-priced "luxury" goods that no-one needs.

(full disclosure of my ESO expenses: I bought the game in April 17, probably on sale. $10? I subbed for a couple months. I bought the Summerset & Free Morrowind pre-order. And I bought 3k crowns for $16 during the '17 Black Friday sale. Still have like 1500 crowns left, after buying some cheap costumes and four DLC during sales. TG/DB/Orsinium/Clockwork)

So basically: we're the lucky ones, we should see how bad some other gamers have it?

While that may be a true factual statement, it's not really a good argument for microtransactions. I couldn't care less about people playing other games - I care about me and the games I play. And while most things in the ESO store are cosmetic, you shouldn't forget that:
(1) those cosmetics, such as crafting styles and skins, used to be earned by playing; and
(2) there are also convenience items in the store, and ZOS are the ones who determine just how convenient they are by fiddling with game mechanics. Before riding lessons appeared, the speed/stamina/carrying capacity stats were tied to the mounts themselves and you could buy mounts with a head start, so in effect ZOS made it MORE inconvenient to max a mount and then offered the convenience of riding lessons in the store. It has also made motif farming far more inconvenient by going from books to pages (and in some cases fragments) and restricting where they drop, only to offer the convenience of full motif books in the store.

Microtransactions make the game worse. Make no mistake about it.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

daemonios wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

With microtransactions you get a variety of experiences, but in the case of ESO it's a bottomless pit, i.e. there is no limit to how much you can spend. There is no connection between what you pay and the cost of what you get, because you're paying for pixels/bits that cost around $0 to produce after the initial cost of developing them. The incentive is for the publisher to maximize store sales, and it does that using dubious tactics such as time-limited events, multiple-tiered currencies, random loot boxes (gambling), all in a market that they control 100%, i.e. in a monopoly. This hurts players: they pay more than they would otherwise. . .

Maybe it's because I've played actually bad f2p/b2p games, so I have something to contrast the Crown Store against.

I don't see it as a "bottomless pit" that players have to throw endless money into. Because, once again, it's all optional stuff.

It's not, say, crafting consumables that are utterly required in order to have a chance of golding your gear (see: every Eastern MMO with an "enchanting" system; bonus points for ones you need to upgrade your gear to +15, with the chance of success dropping down into the 1% range on the final steps, with the chance of losing enchantment on a failure, unless you buy cash shop upgrade boosters.)

It's not, say, an open-world/ffa pvp game, where you need to buy "insurance" consumables from the cash shop to keep people from taking your +15 enchanted gear off your corpse; along with cash shop hp/mp potions that go off automatically when you need them in pvp.

It's not SWTOR, where you needed to pay to unlock the ability to even equip top-rarity gear, and have a carried-gold-limit that's below most useful items on the auction house and even many things buyable from vendors.

And I'll always remember the one time I tried an Aeria-published game. Not only did the cash shop have many of the things I just listed. Along with multiple different lockboxes that included faster/better mounts and the only way to get permanent pack & bank increases (the regular cash shop storage increases were just monthly rentals). But also included "Tiered Spender" and "Ladder" monthly contests, where if you spent enough, you'd get bonus prizes. With contest tiers that reached $1k-1.5k+. In a month. And included top prizes like ""ask a GM for a favor" and "be handed the +15 piece of BiS gear you want". With new contests every month.

So, yeah. ESO has some stupidly expensive, totally optional and un-needed cosmetic mounts & houses? Whatever. I'll just keep wondering why people get so worked up over it, and why people actually buy the stupid crap. Just like I wonder why idiots IRL spend $200 on a pair of shoes with some basketball player's name on it, or $400 for pre-damaged pants or lace underwear, etc. The world is full of silly-priced "luxury" goods that no-one needs.

(full disclosure of my ESO expenses: I bought the game in April 17, probably on sale. $10? I subbed for a couple months. I bought the Summerset & Free Morrowind pre-order. And I bought 3k crowns for $16 during the '17 Black Friday sale. Still have like 1500 crowns left, after buying some cheap costumes and four DLC during sales. TG/DB/Orsinium/Clockwork)

So basically: we're the lucky ones, we should see how bad some other gamers have it?

While that may be a true factual statement, it's not really a good argument for microtransactions. I couldn't care less about people playing other games - I care about me and the games I play. And while most things in the ESO store are cosmetic, you shouldn't forget that:
(1) those cosmetics, such as crafting styles and skins, used to be earned by playing; and
(2) there are also convenience items in the store, and ZOS are the ones who determine just how convenient they are by fiddling with game mechanics. Before riding lessons appeared, the speed/stamina/carrying capacity stats were tied to the mounts themselves and you could buy mounts with a head start, so in effect ZOS made it MORE inconvenient to max a mount and then offered the convenience of riding lessons in the store. It has also made motif farming far more inconvenient by going from books to pages (and in some cases fragments) and restricting where they drop, only to offer the convenience of full motif books in the store.

Microtransactions make the game worse. Make no mistake about it.

Yeah this is basically "well the Africans have it worse" and I hate that argument because it's not in our typical context.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

Kiralyn2000 · December 2018

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

Honestly I don't play the game at all anymore because it's just too much money.

This makes no sense at all.

Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »

No matter what the situation is, paying real money for an appearance change token to just change your character's appearance is lousy.

Hmm. Even before microtransactions were a big thing, loot crates existed, etc... waaay back in the beginning days of MMOs. Changing appearance was something that was generally charged for, if it was even allowed at all. Ditto for name changes. I didn't realize that complaints about that was even a thing.

Unless you're coming from the standpoint that nothing should be charged for? No expansions, no service fees, nothing? Or are you wanting back to the days when the only charge was the required monthly sub? (But even then, WoW and Everquest charged for expansions.)

Beardimus · December 2018

I have 400 gems from free crates.... I don't buy them.

Honestly don't get the problem.

Blacknight841 · December 2018

Latios wrote: »

It’s not like you have to take part in it.

They are cosmectics, won’t alter gameplay itself at all, and are completely optional. I’d really like the senche, but it’s not reasonably priced, so I won’t be getting it. And I can live with that.

ESO plus just got better with no extra cost at all. You think that would have happened without crates and the whales behind them? As long as it’s cosmetics only, the shady practices won’t hurt the general population.

It isn’t just cosmetic. There are plenty of items that have no counter part to it in the game. For instance the housing Halloween lights were only obtainlabe from gems. They do not have equal caliber items in the game. Cosmetic would be that they’re is a crown item and a gem item, and the gem item has a different collar, effect, or size. Cosmetic implies that something is applied to change the appearance of an already existing object. This is no longer the case.

jircris11 · December 2018

EphemeraCrawford wrote: »

We have items that can only be obtained through gems, which can only be obtained through gambling boxes. So if we give them real money, they pay in-game currency out at a random rate of exchange based on box contents.

Imagine paying $15 and getting a random amount of crowns. Maybe you'll get 1500, or maybe 50 depends on the RNG.

These gem exclusive offerings are encouraging some pretty shady practices.

Ffs, it's cosmetic, not game changing, not needed. People need to stop being the "victems" and start acting like freaking adults. EVERY MMO has loot boxes some give advantages others cosmetics. You KNOW your chancing rng when buying them. Unlike when you buy crowns, you get a SET AMOUNT for a SET PRICE.

Juju_beans · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

The law says otherwise.

Ruckly · December 2018

The OP has a point. It doesn't affect be though. Mostly people with gaming addictions or people who absolutely need x limited edition plushy. You put in money(in a modern casino it would be credits), pull a lever, and receive credits(same as a casino) which can be spent on item that can only be obtained with said credits(in a casino you cash in credits for money). On the other hand they do the same thing at carnivals. You put in money, bowl a ball into the holes, and get tickets. It sounds more like a carnival game than a casino. If you look at the very bottom of this page(beyond the bottom most forum post) you will see this game has an M rating which means it is for mature and supposedly responsible people. The only thing shady about this is MMOs are addictive to begin with and that addiction might translate into a gambling addiction if the opportunity presents itself. Korean mmos are largely made around chance to upgrade an item to a higher tier which takes advantage of MMO addiction.

MilwaukeeScott · December 2018

Genomic wrote: »

Why do loot boxes provide such a dark compulsion?"

For %99.9 of us they don't.

The other %.1 should seek professional help.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

The law says otherwise.

And the law once allowed some horrible things to be truthful, like slavery, regardless you can't actually call people an adult "mentally" because science, psychology, and physiology all disagree. This is well documented and established for a long time sense.

So this defense that people are adults and just need to be more mature or better decision makers is false and fabricated.

Also it always ignores the fact that it's not just you making a decision of what you do or not, it's also those that are actively trying to influence or manipulate you.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

MilwaukeeScott wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Why do loot boxes provide such a dark compulsion?"

For %99.9 of us they don't.

The other %.1 should seek professional help.

You've been proven wrong in every post here. You really should see that your logic is entirely faulty and agrees with no factual basis. It's all just false statistics by you and an intent to harass and insult others with no basis.

MilwaukeeScott · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

And the law once allowed some horrible things to be truthful, like slavery, regardless you can't actually call people an adult "mentally" because science, psychology, and physiology all disagree. This is well documented and established for a long time sense.

Stop. Look at what your doing.

You're now comparing loot boxes to slavery.

Thats is absurd

Callous2208 · December 2018

Everyone arguing over whether or not it's right or moral what they're doing. Meanwhile I'm over here with my hand up like, uh...when are we gonna have decent content updates again? Haven't seen a good dlc since Orsinium. Haven't seen any new and innovative things added. Every update is a hand held 3 hour merry go round then you're done. That's if you're taking your time. I don't give a *** what they charge for cosmetics. A fool and his money and all that. But throw us gamers who have been here since the beginning a bone and let's work together to milk these idiots for their cash and turn some of that into cool things for the game.

Blacknight841 · December 2018

jircris11 wrote: »

EphemeraCrawford wrote: »

We have items that can only be obtained through gems, which can only be obtained through gambling boxes. So if we give them real money, they pay in-game currency out at a random rate of exchange based on box contents.

Imagine paying $15 and getting a random amount of crowns. Maybe you'll get 1500, or maybe 50 depends on the RNG.

These gem exclusive offerings are encouraging some pretty shady practices.

Ffs, it's cosmetic, not game changing, not needed. People need to stop being the "victems" and start acting like freaking adults. EVERY MMO has loot boxes some give advantages others cosmetics. You KNOW your chancing rng when buying them. Unlike when you buy crowns, you get a SET AMOUNT for a SET PRICE.

Unfortunately it is no longer just cosmetics. They now contain exclusive items that have no counterpart in the game or crown store, like the Halloween furnishing lights. They also tried to push the pyandonean motif into the crates as an exclusive item.

MilwaukeeScott · December 2018

Blacknight841 wrote: »

Unfortunately it is no longer just cosmetics. They now contain exclusive items that have no counterpart in the game or crown store, like the Halloween furnishing lights.

Halloween Furnishing Lights are the very definition of cosmetic.

Jaimeh · December 2018

I commented on the first page, saying that people are misunderstanding the OP, but now I think that they simply don't want to understand his/her point, given all the replies that have followed. The post was about ZOS' increasingly convoluted, RNG-based business practices to keep the crown crates being a lucrative product--they didn't comment on whether people should buy them, or indeed what anyone should do with their own finances. Yet most replies have made that assumption, and have gotten very personal, calling the OP a number of unsavoury things, which I find completely absurd. I'm sure he/she knows all about 'don't like, don't buy', but the fact that a consumer chooses not to partake in something, doesn't mean they lose the right to comment on it, especially when said consumer is an active player of the game. If someone considers something to be a bad practice and doesn't say so, this invites the other party to continue with said practice, and potentially make it worse. It's a fact that crown crates have added escalated RNG-dependent features (first with the introduction of the radiant apex mounts, and now with gem-exclusive items--and yes, aquiring gems is RNG-based too) with items that cannot be obtained in any other way, and that's only because crates are popular. It's not just cosmetics, but also mounts and furnishings, etc., but that's beside the point. The point is that we now have items that can be obtained with gems that have no standard rate, because that depends on which consumables you get (or duplicated items, should you have them), so now you are buying crates for a chance at gems. Not to mention the arbitrary price of the ice mount. Why 600 gems and not 400, like the rest of the apex mounts? Is it because it's considered a radiant apex? And if so, why can't we then get the radiant ones for 600 gems as well? There are no defined parameters with the crates, this new addition makes it even more salient, and it's logical that consumers want to (and should) enquire about this. Because today is just decorative things... tomorrow who knows. OP is not trying to police anyone for buying crates, they raise a valid point, and the reception they've gotten for it borders on the pathological.

Juju_beans · December 2018

Jaimeh wrote: »

Because today is just decorative things... tomorrow who knows. .

Well as long as it stays cosmetic then no one loses if they don't buy crates.
But I'm not going to angst over something that "may" happen in the future.

FlyingSwan · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

I abhor the cash shop/gambling box mentality of developers and I never buy into it. But businesses can only get away with what customers let them get away with.

People need to take responsibility and simply not get sucked into this stuff. It's not hard, all the stuff in the Crown Store is utter tripe, a spangly fake cat that your fake character can fake ride is hardly a compelling purchase to anyone with an IQ over 65. I still ride my original 'paint horse' and I've got millions of gold and tens of thousands of crowns from various subs. They all go the same speed, it's not like I just traded my Mercedes for an AMG.

Jesus.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

I abhor the cash shop/gambling box mentality of developers and I never buy into it. But businesses can only get away with what customers let them get away with.

People need to take responsibility and simply not get sucked into this stuff. It's not hard, all the stuff in the Crown Store is utter tripe, a spangly fake cat that your fake character can fake ride is hardly a compelling purchase to anyone with an IQ over 65. I still ride my original 'paint horse' and I've got millions of gold and tens of thousands of crowns from various subs. They all go the same speed, it's not like I just traded my Mercedes for an AMG.

Jesus.

In a rpg we tend to customize our characters or desire them to be customized as they can be to fit our ideals of them, and we get bored of the same old content. It is thus easy to exploit others with a cosmetic system.

daemonios · December 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

I abhor the cash shop/gambling box mentality of developers and I never buy into it. But businesses can only get away with what customers let them get away with.

People need to take responsibility and simply not get sucked into this stuff. It's not hard, all the stuff in the Crown Store is utter tripe, a spangly fake cat that your fake character can fake ride is hardly a compelling purchase to anyone with an IQ over 65. I still ride my original 'paint horse' and I've got millions of gold and tens of thousands of crowns from various subs. They all go the same speed, it's not like I just traded my Mercedes for an AMG.

Jesus.

Agreed. I'm sitting on 26k crowns from my subs. Never bought a single crown store item apart from DLC (I was away for 2 years and was unconvinced about resubbing when I came back) and character slots. I won't spend any money on crowns, gems or whatever ludicrous currency they come up with next.

FlyingSwan · December 2018

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

I abhor the cash shop/gambling box mentality of developers and I never buy into it. But businesses can only get away with what customers let them get away with.

People need to take responsibility and simply not get sucked into this stuff. It's not hard, all the stuff in the Crown Store is utter tripe, a spangly fake cat that your fake character can fake ride is hardly a compelling purchase to anyone with an IQ over 65. I still ride my original 'paint horse' and I've got millions of gold and tens of thousands of crowns from various subs. They all go the same speed, it's not like I just traded my Mercedes for an AMG.

Jesus.

In a rpg we tend to customize our characters or desire them to be customized as they can be to fit our ideals of them, and we get bored of the same old content. It is thus easy to exploit others with a cosmetic system.

And this stance would have some merit were it not for the fact that ESO is chock full of customisation without requiring so much as sideway's glance at the tawdry muck in the Crown Store.

Basically, if one buys the imbecilic pets and mounts from the Crown store they are sure to have exactly the same FotM as every other imbecile dashing about that week, so it's hardly 'custom'. Honestly, if people are witless enough to get sucked into this garbage, it's a really strong argument for letting natural selection kill off the stupid ones in every human litter, so we can raise the quality of the gene pool once more.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

daemonios wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

I abhor the cash shop/gambling box mentality of developers and I never buy into it. But businesses can only get away with what customers let them get away with.

People need to take responsibility and simply not get sucked into this stuff. It's not hard, all the stuff in the Crown Store is utter tripe, a spangly fake cat that your fake character can fake ride is hardly a compelling purchase to anyone with an IQ over 65. I still ride my original 'paint horse' and I've got millions of gold and tens of thousands of crowns from various subs. They all go the same speed, it's not like I just traded my Mercedes for an AMG.

Jesus.

Agreed. I'm sitting on 26k crowns from my subs. Never bought a single crown store item apart from DLC (I was away for 2 years and was unconvinced about resubbing when I came back) and character slots. I won't spend any money on crowns, gems or whatever ludicrous currency they come up with next.

YOU HAVE spent money on crowns via the subscription.

Delsanab14_ESO · December 2018

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

It is something of a scam, but you don't have to take part. And the game is an 18, so there should be no children in the game, unless parents are being ineffective.

I've got about 40k crowns, accrued from various subs over the years, but I have never spent a single crown in the store, except for DLC when on offer. The game has the hallmarks of being prepped for F2P, so don't be a part of that process is my view.

I no longer sub at all in fact, because I think the sub is pretty worthless all said and done, but that's another matter.

Parents are being ineffective or just don't care, no one reads the terms of service except the extremely dedicated, you're not an adult at age 18 but at 25-28 due to the brain not stopping its development yet and being easily influenced. These games use addictive mechanics, consult psychologists to intentionally addict others, use reward-systems that interact directly with chemical processes of the brain, etc etc.

I abhor the cash shop/gambling box mentality of developers and I never buy into it. But businesses can only get away with what customers let them get away with.

People need to take responsibility and simply not get sucked into this stuff. It's not hard, all the stuff in the Crown Store is utter tripe, a spangly fake cat that your fake character can fake ride is hardly a compelling purchase to anyone with an IQ over 65. I still ride my original 'paint horse' and I've got millions of gold and tens of thousands of crowns from various subs. They all go the same speed, it's not like I just traded my Mercedes for an AMG.

Jesus.

In a rpg we tend to customize our characters or desire them to be customized as they can be to fit our ideals of them, and we get bored of the same old content. It is thus easy to exploit others with a cosmetic system.

And this stance would have some merit were it not for the fact that ESO is chock full of customisation without requiring so much as sideway's glance at the tawdry muck in the Crown Store.

Basically, if one buys the imbecilic pets and mounts from the Crown store they are sure to have exactly the same FotM as every other imbecile dashing about that week, so it's hardly 'custom'. Honestly, if people are witless enough to get sucked into this garbage, it's a really strong argument for letting natural selection kill off the stupid ones in every human litter, so we can raise the quality of the gene pool once more.

This is not accurate. First it has merit regardless as it's true, second the customization options are mostly the old stuff that's been there forever and sometimes the motifs, though some are hidden behind pay walls. Further, then there's the fact with ESO plus you can't dye costumes and very few new options exist, you can't really buy any new mounts or pets with gold, etc etc. They have hamstrung the non-crown cosmetic environment and do their best to put all focus and attention to it.

It's not about being witless or whatever. And now you're getting into ridiculous toxicity and non-factual nature based on some contrived point of your own with no real basis.

[Deleted User] · December 2018

Hello everyone,

Reminder to keep things civil and constructive towards one another, regardless of where they stand on the matter. Baiting and flaming are not constructive ways to make a point, are against the Forum Rules and only lead to action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.