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Auto removal at end of dungeons
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's about server resources, I'm sure of it. Each instance is a hefty chunk of state hanging in the server memory and consuming ticks. Recent fiasco with dungeon finder, I also strongly suspect, had nothing to do with any bugs in the finder, but "someone declined" was a sneaky way to say they served is out of resources and can't create instance for the group (sure explains the fault with premade groups too). So, ZOS must be trying to crank down the number of instances lingering on the server.
If it's random and the group isn't disbanded after a time, I tell others that I'll teleport out and they're free to ungroup whenever they want, and explore in the meantime - finish the quest, loot chests or just enjoy sights; I'm usually not in any sort of hurry. But the problem is of course grave, better think yo another way to conserve server resources instead of making people rush.0 -
msetten✭✭✭✭✭I also find this annoying. The best solution to me seems to make it so that players that leave while the final boss has not been slain are automatically kicked and once the final boss has been slain, any player that has the quest active for that dungeon is not kicked until after he has finished the quest. (Of if that is too complicated, use a timer that is long enough to finish the quest).0
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Palidon✭✭✭✭✭
✭SydneyGrey wrote: »We've been begging them for years to extend the timer at the end of the dungeon a few minutes so we can finish quests after everybody else leaves, but ZOS apparently doesn't care that much about it.
ZOS does not care about anything except their Crown Store and ways to get money out of the growing number of frustrated and fed up players.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭blacksghost wrote: »I’d like to see the timer extended ..BUT.. I’d also like to see more consideration from other players. You don’t have to quit the group to port out!!! Port out first, quit group after. A few moments in the group while you get sorted for your next task would not hurt you but could help a group member.
Those 146 gold quickly add up. Leaving group is a free port to exactly where you were before the dungeon. Very convenient.
More on topic: I see an issue with player count in an instance. There is probably some kind of bug that might happen And screw everything when there are technically two groups (3+1) in a dungeon. That's why going in solo is not a problem (still only one group) but leaving the group and staying inside is.0 -
Elwendryll✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not a big request, the French would be setting fire to the servers by now if they had to put up with it for this long!!!!
As a French citizen, I can't let you say that about us without telling you I appreciate your joke.
PC - EU - France - AD
Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.
All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH6 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Royaji , teleporting to another player from a guild roster or friend list is another free way out of the dungeon; and many dungeons have shortcuts to exit right by the end boss, quitting the dungeon would also take one to the previous location.
And as a more elaborate solution to the players lingering in a dungeon after quitting group, I could envision forking off a copy of the instance for each player split off the group, so instead of being kicked from the dungeon, a player would seamlessly end up in a copied instance (from the player's point of view, the rest of the group would disappear - remaining in the old instance). But of course it would make the server resource usage only worse.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Royaji , teleporting to another player from a guild roster or friend list is another free way out of the dungeon; and many dungeons have shortcuts to exit right by the end boss, quitting the dungeon would also take one to the previous location.
1) go and look for the exit door (it's usually not obvious).
2) open guild roster and look for someone in a zone you need to get to, deal with the 50/50 nature of "travel to player" feature (half the time it completes the animation without porting you), end up at the wrong wayshrine and wait for a second loading screen.
3) press "P", "X", "E", spend 15 seconds checking the drops you got, find yourself exactly where you were before starting.
What is the easy option majority will go for?
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cyberblast✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »But of course it would make the server resource usage only worse.John_Falstaff wrote: »It's about server resources, I'm sure of it. Each instance is a hefty chunk of state hanging in the server memory and consuming ticks.
But there is literally NOTHING going on anymore in such an instance. Well, it would cost a few bits to keep the state of crates and stuff around there, but there is nothing heavy going on in there. And commonly it would only be a few seconds more. It's not like THAT expensive!
Edited by cyberblast on December 11, 2018 11:08AM1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Royaji , majority is another matter; I'm only talking about a way to avoid spending gold without quitting the group. ^^ People who can't spare ten extra seconds of their time is already another problem with ESO, and it sadly isn't limiting itself to dungeon quitters.
@cyberblast , I suspect there's way more state in there. State of all monsters in the dungeon (if there are any left alive, or maybe dead ones too, depending on how it's implemented) with all their associated data (and I'm sure mobs have plenty of state associated with them), state of all containers - all those crates, barrels, jars and sacks; possible state of doors... Not a fact that it's all stored in compact form there, either, for all we know it might be a whole hierarchy of game objects that won't be cleaned up until after the instance is purged. Instance may have own timekeeping for mobs, too (and player interacting with it), so it also must consume CPU time. And considering how many players are in the game, there'll be a lot of such instances, so resources add up; cutting down on lifetime of an instance might mean that server would have to host a thousand fewer instances to host at any given time, or ten thousands.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, no; it definitely should be, and there must be better ways to optimize things than to cause discomfort of players. But I'm just trying to have a look at possible reasons.0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What is the point of this - turn it off!
It's bad enough that we have to run all these dungeons and grind everything over and over again, and we still get to end of a pug dungeon - everyone buggers off even if you asked them not to and you get no skill point or dungeon reward.
Either auto reward the skill point \ dungeon reward or disable the auto removal from dungeon, we don't care about the immersion of the story or the characters involved the 15th time around!
It's not a big request, the French would be setting fire to the servers by now if they had to put up with it for this long!!!!
YES THIS - that is super annoying!0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Shewolf075 wrote: »I would love for the option of removal to be a thing as would like to go back through dungeons to check for loot. Often I'd rush back to try, but folks end up leaving causing my removal. Plus some dungeons are nicely detailed to look at, don't get chance to check out the scenes when rushing through.
THIS I want to really wander through there! Disbanding group should NOT just kick you. That is LAME.1 -
adeptusminor✭✭✭✭Sanctuary_Reaper wrote: »It is annoying when everyone leaves group when you have a quest to hand in, some are super quick some are not, something does need to be done though.
And before anyone with the smart idea i should tell everyone i have quest, i do that, the message i put is,
Hi guys i have the quest, can you allow me to hand it in at the end?
The replies, sure no problem, take your time.
End of quest all bugger off and im removed with quest not handed in.
I always will stay if someone mentions they have the quest. That being said there have been a few times where someone mentioned it at the start of the dungeon, and I've forgotten at the end to stick around. Always feel awful. I'd recommend mentioning near the end of the dungeon that you have the quest to remind forgetful people like me.Edited by adeptusminor on December 11, 2018 4:40PM0 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭What is the point of this - turn it off!
It's bad enough that we have to run all these dungeons and grind everything over and over again, and we still get to end of a pug dungeon - everyone buggers off even if you asked them not to and you get no skill point or dungeon reward.
Either auto reward the skill point \ dungeon reward or disable the auto removal from dungeon, we don't care about the immersion of the story or the characters involved the 15th time around!
It's not a big request, the French would be setting fire to the servers by now if they had to put up with it for this long!!!!
I think the rewards for dungeons quests should be with an NPC outside the dungeon so if you do get removed you can still collect4 -
Canasta✭✭✭Have to agree that this, most dungeon runs are so frantic that mage guild books, and sometimes chests can also be missed.
At the very least the timer could be extended to a few minutes to allow for quests and these other things0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@YdrisselleYdrisselle wrote: »
Start with the easier ones on normal mode.
- Fungal Grotto I
- Darkshade Caverns I
You'll need some sort of AOE for trash mobs and a good self heal and/or shield.
Once you get the hang of it, you'll find that most are soloable.
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Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭
@YdrisselleYdrisselle wrote: »
Start with the easier ones on normal mode.
- Fungal Grotto I
- Darkshade Caverns I
You'll need some sort of AOE for trash mobs and a good self heal and/or shield.
Once you get the hang of it, you'll find that most are soloable.
I've tried it with a pet magsorc before Murkmire in Banished Cells I. I failed at the first patrol. I'm simply not skilled enough for that kind of accomplishment.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭What is the point of this - turn it off!
It's bad enough that we have to run all these dungeons and grind everything over and over again, and we still get to end of a pug dungeon - everyone buggers off even if you asked them not to and you get no skill point or dungeon reward.
Either auto reward the skill point \ dungeon reward or disable the auto removal from dungeon, we don't care about the immersion of the story or the characters involved the 15th time around!
It's not a big request, the French would be setting fire to the servers by now if they had to put up with it for this long!!!!
yes, it's compeltely ridiculous. Just don't remove of us from dungeon, why did they waste time implementing this in the first place?? Or give us a prompt to select to stay. Like "Do you want to get removed from the dungeon" E: Yes, leave dungeon. ALT: Nope, let me stay please.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are a couple problems with removing the auto removal timer. First, the dungeon system cannot support the entire population hanging out in a dungeon by themselves. Also, there cannot be more than four people in an instance at one time so if someone leaves or is removed they have to exit. Figure those two issues out and our wish could become a reality.
Easy, once the last boss is dead, remove the kick timer and let them roam until they leave or log out.
This is no different than you soloing a dungeon, you get your own instance just as a group of 4 does.
Only when you solo, there is no kick timer at all, you can stay as long as you want after the last boss is dead.
There is no reason what-so-ever to *not* let people roam after they finished the dungeon, the instance is already on the server, there's simply no need to kick anyone at that point.
So your response to reasons is just asserting there is no reason whatsoever?
Reclaiming resources is in fact a reason, whether or not last boss is dead. Yes, the instance is on the server. They want to remove that instance because resources aren't unlimited and those are resources they can use for something else. Saying "it is no different" isn't really engaging the strategy. It is clearly different because you get kicked here and you don't get kicked when solo.
This design isn't making it impossible for you to stay in a group dungeon alone indefinitely. But it is making it less likely that people will do that. You can argue that it is a frustrating approach and they should change it because it makes it hard to finish the quests that they created and intend to have people take part in. I would agree with that criticism. But there is no need to resort to black and white arguments claiming there is no reason why anything should be other than what you think it should be.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭blacksghost wrote: »I’d like to see the timer extended ..BUT.. I’d also like to see more consideration from other players. You don’t have to quit the group to port out!!! Port out first, quit group after. A few moments in the group while you get sorted for your next task would not hurt you but could help a group member.
Meh. It isn't apparent in many dungeons where the exit is and I usually want to return to where I was previously -- by the pledge givers.
If it looks like someone was doing the quest, I'll ask if they need me to hang around. Otherwise, I'm leaving group.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »There are a couple problems with removing the auto removal timer. First, the dungeon system cannot support the entire population hanging out in a dungeon by themselves. Also, there cannot be more than four people in an instance at one time so if someone leaves or is removed they have to exit. Figure those two issues out and our wish could become a reality.
Easy, once the last boss is dead, remove the kick timer and let them roam until they leave or log out.
This is no different than you soloing a dungeon, you get your own instance just as a group of 4 does.
Only when you solo, there is no kick timer at all, you can stay as long as you want after the last boss is dead.
There is no reason what-so-ever to *not* let people roam after they finished the dungeon, the instance is already on the server, there's simply no need to kick anyone at that point.
So your response to reasons is just asserting there is no reason whatsoever?
Reclaiming resources is in fact a reason, whether or not last boss is dead. Yes, the instance is on the server. They want to remove that instance because resources aren't unlimited and those are resources they can use for something else. Saying "it is no different" isn't really engaging the strategy. It is clearly different because you get kicked here and you don't get kicked when solo.
This design isn't making it impossible for you to stay in a group dungeon alone indefinitely. But it is making it less likely that people will do that. You can argue that it is a frustrating approach and they should change it because it makes it hard to finish the quests that they created and intend to have people take part in. I would agree with that criticism. But there is no need to resort to black and white arguments claiming there is no reason why anything should be other than what you think it should be.
Then why are we not kicked when killing last boss in a dungeon we didn't use the GF to enter? What about main story quests then? They are instances too, on the server and all. Claiming resources... so we should be kicked if taking longer than 8 minutes to complete them. To conserve resources. this argument is bs0 -
bongtokin420insd16✭✭✭✭So i may be the only one but i actually like the time out. It ports me back to where i was before i ported in and i like that lol.Kaz_Wastelander PS4NA1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »
So your response to reasons is just asserting there is no reason whatsoever?There are a couple problems with removing the auto removal timer. First, the dungeon system cannot support the entire population hanging out in a dungeon by themselves. Also, there cannot be more than four people in an instance at one time so if someone leaves or is removed they have to exit. Figure those two issues out and our wish could become a reality.
Easy, once the last boss is dead, remove the kick timer and let them roam until they leave or log out.
This is no different than you soloing a dungeon, you get your own instance just as a group of 4 does.
Only when you solo, there is no kick timer at all, you can stay as long as you want after the last boss is dead.
There is no reason what-so-ever to *not* let people roam after they finished the dungeon, the instance is already on the server, there's simply no need to kick anyone at that point.
Reclaiming resources is in fact a reason, whether or not last boss is dead. Yes, the instance is on the server. They want to remove that instance because resources aren't unlimited and those are resources they can use for something else. Saying "it is no different" isn't really engaging the strategy. It is clearly different because you get kicked here and you don't get kicked when solo.
This design isn't making it impossible for you to stay in a group dungeon alone indefinitely. But it is making it less likely that people will do that. You can argue that it is a frustrating approach and they should change it because it makes it hard to finish the quests that they created and intend to have people take part in. I would agree with that criticism. But there is no need to resort to black and white arguments claiming there is no reason why anything should be other than what you think it should be.
Sigh ... No, no and no.
"it is no different" refers to the instance of the server created when one enters a group dungeon. It is "no different" regardless of whether you enter solo or as a group, the amount of server resources needed are the same.
Sure, resources are finite, but since we can already stay in a dungeon indefinitely without being kicked (if you enter solo or if at least two of your group stay on), the whole argument about server resources is moot if used as an argument for the difference in mechanics between solo and group.
Again, if you enter as a group and after the last boss is killed the kick timer is removed, it would be "no different" than any one member of the group entering the dungeon solo.
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blacksghost✭✭✭✭Options available for leaving a dungeon;
Exit via exit door.
Where door is not obvious scoot back to entrance.
Port to friend
Port to guild member
Port to house
Failing the above pay gold
If all the above are too hard, or too expensive for you, check your loot while still grouped, take a moment to say thanks (ikr weird concept actually speaking to the other group members)
Just be a little more considerate for the love of M’aiq.
Everything will be alright in the end, if its not alright its not the end.1 -
dem0n1k✭✭✭✭✭
✭This used to bug me initially but eventually I ended up doing the dungeons so many times there was always at least one opportunity to complete the quests before getting booted out.Just solo the dungeon, you'll have all the time in Tamriel to explore everything, no kick timer ...
Yeah.. but then you have to walk out of the dungeon like a peasant!
Or ride in some cases... or port to friends/guildies I guess!
NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.0 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have NEVER had a group disband on me when I told them at the beginning of the dungeon that I had picked up the quest to complete the dungeon. They have either told me they wouldn't stay and I left or someone did stay long enough for me to complete. You just have to learn to communicate at the beginning of the run and let people know that you want the quest completion and skill point and 9 times out of 10 at least one person will hang out with you til you finish. If the whole group doesn't want to stick around they let you know at the start after you've asked so you don't waste your time going through it with them.
Also, if you have the crown, you have the power to add a guild mate or friend to group before the group completely falls apart. Find a friend who's willing to join in at the end just to keep the instance open.Edited by SteveCampsOut on December 12, 2018 3:46AM@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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Shawn_PT✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd be content if the quest didn't reset and we could complete it later by talking to the NPC that started it, which would be conveniently placed at the start of the dungeon should you enter it with the quest in the last step.
CoA2 is one of the annoying ones. It's happened twice in a row there, including a guild group. After killing the boss you need to go into the back room, there's a little book you can read too. But there's the whole sigil stone thing and the NPCs talking after everyone is out. Even running at full speed doesn't allow one to get it done should the group disband.
That's okay, I thought. I'll just go back inside and talk to the NPC. After all he's standing at the entrance anyway. ESO should be smart enough to know I just want to deliver the quest, yeah?
"What are you waiting for, go kill stuff."
The quest resets if we go back in. Why? It makes no sense. You can do this with trials. Go back in, talk to the same NPC and receive the box. Why are dungeons so different? Oh and AS is broken. If I try to go back it tells me to go talk to the NPC that is standing somewhere outside the map where the Assembly General can be found. Logic.0 -
bongtokin420insd16✭✭✭✭The other fix? Treat it like a delve and have the npc show up either at the beginning or outside the door too. That way if u miss it you can just pop back right quick and complete it.Kaz_Wastelander PS4NA0
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UPrime✭✭✭✭They added it because of cheating and griefing.
This way you can't have 2 teams making it go faster. Or you don't have someone that quits and gives trouble to the group. For instance resetting encounters.0
