Are we being punished for paying?

kargen27 · December 2018

Abigail wrote: »

@Bouldercleave

Let me make a few comments to that list.

access to DLC GAME PACKS (but you're only a renter)
UNLIMITED CRAFTING STORAGE
FREE CROWNS 1650 crowns per month for mounts, pets, & more (not free, we paid for them)
EXTRA BANK SPACE
10% increase to Gold & Experience acquisition (but what if all alts are maxed?)
10% increase to Crafting Inspiration & Trait Research rates (worthless if your only crafter is maxed)
Double Furnishings & Collectibles space in player housing (okay for those who want to play Sims)
ability to dye costumes (not even sure what this means -- why else would there be costume dyes)
Double currency cap for Transmutation Crystals (again, okay if you're a meta chaser, otherwise ... meh)
Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals (so far "deals" is arguable and cheezy statues ... meh)

I really don't give a fat rat's asp, but marketing hype is, well, marketing hype, and I'd say the longer you play + is of diminishing value. But like others, I've kept + because of storage until recently.

Some comments for your comments

You can use your crowns to purchase the DLCs should you desire.

Crowns while maybe not free are definitely a perk to subscribing that non subscribers do not get.

If you are maxed on XP great you still get the gold.

10% inspiration and research allows you to get secondary characters to max quicker meaning better chance at Master Writs sooner.

You can't credibly say double furnishings isn't a bonus simply because you choose not to take advantage.

All the other arguments you make are the same as the furnishings one. Because you choose not to take advantage does not mean they are not a bonus with worth.

The free days are offered as incentive to get more people playing the game. More people playing is good for the long term health of the game. Letting people have access for one week in no way diminishes the package you get.

I've had ESO+ since the time it has been available mostly as a way to support the game. If I play only three hours a month I get more entertainment value out of my subscription than I do going to one movie a month. All the other stuff is just a bonus and that bonus doesn't diminish for subscribers in any way simply because non subscribers from time to time get a little taste. In fact giving them that little taste might actually benefit subscribers through keeping a vibrant community playing the game.

Editing to add... There was a time we subscribed and got no daily reward. So we don't get crown crates any more. For most of us even if we get only one gold coin a day it is more than what we were getting when we started subscribing. If it isn't worth subscribing now then how was it worth subscribing then?

Abigail · December 2018

@kargen27

Please show me where I said ESO+ wasn't a good value. I simply balk a marketing hype, and I was pointing out that the ESO+ will not bring the same value to every player. If ESO+ included only the additional storage (bank, inventory) I'd still do it. But that's just me.

Ramalamafizzfaj · December 2018

Glurin wrote: »

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

So your point is?

As you obviously had trouble understanding this, I'll make it clear.

My point is I want an equivalent amount of free rewards as the free players get. I feel i lose out on freebies because I pay.

There. Is that clear enough?

Ok, so your beef is that subscribers don't get extra rewards when free players sometimes get a free week of ESO+, even though they get nothing for the other fifty one weeks of the year.....

I forgot to mention, this is my first month subscribing and I sure picked the wrong month. As for your attitude to my wanting only an equivalent, well your opinion isn't a fact, so gifs showing people getting a slap only show how little patience you have with simple things. Please grow up.

How about this one then?

Good strawman. Lets not let logic get in the way of being cool now.

Ramalamafizzfaj · December 2018

Runs wrote: »

So this is your first month subscribing and you are complaining about a free week WHICH YOU YOURSELF GOT AS A "FREE" PLAYER?

No. I paid. read the damn post

eso_lags · December 2018

The only reason to sub is for the craft bag.. I guess if you are someone who is going to spend crowns every month then ya its worth it too because the crowns are pretty much equivalent to the cost of the sub. But im pretty sure you could own every DLC by now and then some with the money it takes for eso plus. They really have a lot of us by the b@!!s when it comes to that craft bag though.. All of you who hope one day you will be able to buy it in the crown store are dreaming.

Peekachu99 · December 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

There are new ESO+ exclusive crown items now. Some are free.

Paying for the opportunity to pay for even more stuff is some serious Stockholm Syndrome. Those items should all be given to subscribers for free. As is, most people only have ESO+ for the craft bag, which could be argued is an artificially created problem to entice people to subscribe, since most other games don’t have this issue.

eso_nya · December 2018

u get the craftbag, but it also turns "daily random" into "fill up failed dlc pledge runs".

+/- 0 i'd say.

But than, what do u expect from a game that only punishes being bad, while not rewarding getting gud?

lagrue · December 2018

Oh look, somebody else who thinks their money is worth way more than it actually is.

Radiance · December 2018

Have you no concept of marketing strategy!? This is intended to attract new subscribers to keep the game alive, Literally everything that requires Subscription these days has some kind of Free Trial period to give people a sense of whether or not they are interested... There are plenty of reasonable critiques that can be made in regards to Sever performance and crown store abuses but I don't find this to be among the biggest issues whatsoever. Learn to live with it unless you want the game to die, you alone can not keep it afloat and they need to attract new subscribers somehow so unless anyone has any better suggestions, let it go...

as for the Gifted Murkmire DLC, consider the limited number of people who were actually playing the game at the time and logged on the required amount of days that month to unlock access... It's not as if it is still just handed out to anyone F2Player who Downloads the game...

NewBlacksmurf · December 2018

The real question you need to ask is why are you subscribing at all?

Is there something offered you feel you need each month?

If not why subscribe at all

eso_nya · December 2018

Radiance wrote: »

as for the Gifted Murkmire DLC, consider the limited number of people who were actually playing the game at the time and logged on the required amount of days that month to unlock access... It's not as if it is still just handed out to anyone F2Player who Downloads the game...

u have a good point there. for me and my biased opinion tho, in terms of "free dlc access" i got exactly nothing this year.
i had to buy summerset. i logged in enough to get murkmire for free. and i have access to "endless chains of generic rooms filled with generic mobs" aka 4 dlc dungeons, which i would prefer to _not_ have.

yes this is my totally biased oinion, but for me, the dlc dungeons r just terribad gamedesign, neither fun, nor rewarding, nor challenging. so for me, its a huge downside that i can access them, or get dragged there by ppl begging me to join.

some of the other benefits r questionable at best.
double transmut crystals: why is there a cap in the first place? "token-system" horse was beaten dead in 2014. still why do we need a system to cover up for a lootsystem where 99% of things r useless unless transmuted?

similar for double bankspace, furnishing space and craftbag. why is inventory management such a pain? why do we need a gazillion of different materials in such high quantities? motifstones r kinda pointless thanks to outfitting. move traits into armor-/weapon-passives, tune down the quantities of needed mats, get rid of dust/grain bs, merge the 4 different upgrade mat types (wood, ore, cloth, jewels) into one...and suddenly u dont need transmutation and craftbag anymore, and ppl might stop complaining the game is to grindy.

costume dying, well swtor has "hide helmet" as a subscription feature. lets keep it in

ezio45 · December 2018

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Access to the craft bag is more than enough to me. And still having access to the other dlcs is nice too. Those are things the trial members only get a taste of. They continue to add other little perks to sweeten the deal of being a subscriber. May not be much but it's something.

the craft bag should be base game as its basically required to play, aswell as the double ban space. I wont be because then noone would buy eso+ but they SHOULD be

Salvas_Aren · December 2018

Abigail wrote: »

ability to dye costumes (not even sure what this means -- why else would there be costume dyes)

ESO+ subscribers or promotional players have the ability to dye costumes at the dye bench. Free users cannot do this, they must use premade dye kits.

Danikat · December 2018

As I've said before I think the only sensible approach is to look at what you definitely are going to get with ESO+, meaning the stuff ZOS tell you you'll get (crowns, DLC access, craft bag etc.) and decide if it's worth the price based on that, then consider anything else you get a bonus.

Otherwise you're setting yourself up for disappointment by paying now for something you hope you'll get later on with no guarantee it will ever happen.

And if you think the normal benefits aren't worthwhile and it's only worth subscribing when ZOS is giving away extras then wait until something you want is announced and buy it then. Even if you get the subscription on the first day, or after the start in the case of things like the crown store exclusives, you're still included in the promotion.

Elsonso · December 2018

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

This past couple of months has been a bit of a joke for subscribers in my opinion. Last month there was 7 days of free ESO + for which ESO + subscribers were not offered an equivalent alternative reward. Then they gave murkmire DLC away, making my subscription a little less valuable. Then they let people play for free for a week, with again no equivalent reward for ESO + subscribers or people who had already bought the game.

And what have they done for subscribers? an extra 150 crowns per month. That's actually such a small amount it's an insult.

Oddly enough, I am not bothered by any of this.

Ratzkifal · December 2018

My subscription ran out, I got Murkmire for free, and I got enough crowns left for other things. I guess they don't want my money. The craft bag + 1650 crowns alone are not enough to justify this purchase. I can manage my inventory just fine without it. Just means I can't pick up everything. Normally I would sub for the free crates, but now that those are gone and neither Molag Bal nor Vivec statues are making up for that I will just enjoy getting a free inventory cleanup every few months and play without.

kylewwefan · December 2018

It’s supposed to be a treat to get a chance to run DLC dungeons in your random daily. Definitely feels more like a punishment.

Tried playing the game for a few days without the +

It sucks. Re-sub straight away.

Tandor · December 2018

wolf486 wrote: »

I have no issues with free ESO+ weekends or weeks. I'd of course always welcome getting more with ESO+, but as it stands for how I play the game, I get my monies worth now

This. Twice over, as I subscribe to two accounts and get my monies worth on both of them.

Rain_Greyraven · December 2018

Reverb · December 2018

You are certainly not getting less as a subscriber than players here on a free trial are getting. For that to be true, they would have to take things away from you for subbing, and restrict your access to parts of the vanilla game. That's what "less" would look like.

Now I understand that you feel like you're not getting enough rewards from your subscription. That's a fully separate thing from a free trial weekend meant to benefit people who've never bought an eso license. Many people feel the eso+ is worth it, and the the rewards are valuable. Many others would value the perks of subbing but won't do it on principal, withholding money to send a message to Zeni. Others feel eso+ is not a good value and prefer to play the vanilla game, perhaps supplementing with Crown Store purchases.

Only you can choose which of these paths is true for you. And your choice is only your own truth, it doesn't change the way anyone else will feel about their choice. The only purpose this thread has is for people to sort themselves into one of the aforementioned categories.

Kiralyn2000 · December 2018

The free crates during "free ESO+ week" turning into those not-terribly-amazing Crown Store Offers!™ is a vaild gripe, I think (and I don't sub)

But the regular "try the game!" week? OP, you need to watch out, Steam and other publishers do stuff like that all the time. Eventually another game you play will be doing it, and you'll just have to deal with it. /shrug

Oh, and also be ready for Playstation Plus or XBox Games with Gold giving away 'free' copies of something you might have bought before.

(oh, hey, did you grab that free copy of Destiny 2 PC last month? I did! Glad I hadn't bought a copy off Amazon the week before for $20+. Especially since playing it showed me I'm not that into it. I might uninstall it soon - the latest patch wants another 14 GB.

)

WeerW3ir · December 2018

and as the first

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

This past couple of months has been a bit of a joke for subscribers in my opinion. Last month there was 7 days of free ESO + for which ESO + subscribers were not offered an equivalent alternative reward. Then they gave murkmire DLC away, making my subscription a little less valuable. Then they let people play for free for a week, with again no equivalent reward for ESO + subscribers or people who had already bought the game.

And what have they done for subscribers? an extra 150 crowns per month. That's actually such a small amount it's an insult.

The problem is that they took away everything what was free. mainly crowncrates. Also they mentioned that we will gave free eso+ items. we so far only got some statue, which is like getting a bobblehead in Fallout. Im technicly paying my subcsription since the first day. never stopped it.

(imagine all dat sweet cash i gave them >:( ) months ago it was op. but now? i simply not like this. Im not saying i want more. but not this what i want.

Merlin13KAGL · December 2018

Do you get $15.00 worth of playtime/benefit/enjoyment out of the game each month?

If the answer is yes, then you need to sit back down.

If the answer is no, then you're doing it wrong.

My neighbor just got a new car. In no way, shape, nor form does it somehow lessen the value of my car. (Murkire only lessens your value if you didn't read announcements or didn't wait and bought it outright - poorest example you provided yet.)

They do both things (freeplay) and (freESO+) to draw people in. Not sure why some have difficulty grasping that.

EDIT:I have to apologize. I hadn't gone through the entire thread like I normally would.

Had I done so, I would've realized how much of an ignorant idiot you actually are.

BTW: This one's my favorite:

Lets not let logic get in the way

This is clearly an issue you're never going to have.

Oh, and welcome. You're clearly going to be an asset to both the game and the forums.

Bouldercleave · December 2018

Abigail wrote: »

@Bouldercleave

Let me make a few comments to that list.

access to DLC GAME PACKS (but you're only a renter)
UNLIMITED CRAFTING STORAGE
FREE CROWNS 1650 crowns per month for mounts, pets, & more (not free, we paid for them)
EXTRA BANK SPACE
10% increase to Gold & Experience acquisition (but what if all alts are maxed?)
10% increase to Crafting Inspiration & Trait Research rates (worthless if your only crafter is maxed)
Double Furnishings & Collectibles space in player housing (okay for those who want to play Sims)
ability to dye costumes (not even sure what this means -- why else would there be costume dyes)
Double currency cap for Transmutation Crystals (again, okay if you're a meta chaser, otherwise ... meh)
Exclusive access to unique Crown Store deals (so far "deals" is arguable and cheezy statues ... meh)

I really don't give a fat rat's asp, but marketing hype is, well, marketing hype, and I'd say the longer you play + is of diminishing value. But like others, I've kept + because of storage until recently.

So what you are saying is that it's not worth it for YOU. I get it. Don't subscribe then.

SHADOW2KK · December 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Do you get $15.00 worth of playtime/benefit/enjoyment out of the game each month?

If the answer is yes, then you need to sit back down.

If the answer is no, then you're doing it wrong.

My neighbor just got a new car. In no way, shape, nor form does it somehow lessen the value of my car. (Murkire only lessens your value if you didn't read announcements or didn't wait and bought it outright - poorest example you provided yet.)

They do both things (freeplay) and (freESO+) to draw people in. Not sure why some have difficulty grasping that.

EDIT:I have to apologize. I hadn't gone through the entire thread like I normally would.

Had I done so, I would've realized how much of an ignorant idiot you actually are.

BTW: This one's my favorite:

Lets not let logic get in the way

This is clearly an issue you're never going to have.

Oh, and welcome. You're clearly going to be an asset to both the game and the forums.

Please , say what you really feel

Lol comedy gold and accurate.

DaveMoeDee · December 2018

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

Access to the craft bag is more than enough to me. And still having access to the other dlcs is nice too. Those are things the trial members only get a taste of. They continue to add other little perks to sweeten the deal of being a subscriber. May not be much but it's something.

Yeah, but you're missing the point.
I pay for this, and get less benefit than a free player.

No, you don't get less benefit. There is a valid complaint, but don't go over-the-top.

jircris11 wrote: »

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

This past couple of months has been a bit of a joke for subscribers in my opinion. Last month there was 7 days of free ESO + for which ESO + subscribers were not offered an equivalent alternative reward. Then they gave murkmire DLC away, making my subscription a little less valuable. Then they let people play for free for a week, with again no equivalent reward for ESO + subscribers or people who had already bought the game.

And what have they done for subscribers? an extra 150 crowns per month. That's actually such a small amount it's an insult.

When will people realize, when you pay the 14.99 a month you get eso+ AS WELL as 14.99 in crowns, we are basically paying for the crowns and getting the membership free

First, it is only 14.99 in crowns if you are clueless and buy crowns at the most expensive possible rate.

Second, I have over 10k crowns just sitting their. Crowns have almost no monetary value to me, at least until they release a new assistant or more character slots.

While i think they should always give people with subs something during the free ESO+ weeks, it is hardly a big deal. The best would be to just add that number of days to our ESO+ balance.

As far as Murkmire goes, if you feel DLC is a way to get value from the sub, you haven't been paying attention. Any long term player should know better since they were here during the chapter bait-and-switch.

For me, so long as I don't have to deal with the disaster that is inventory management in this game, I'm happy with the sub.

idk · December 2018

Glurin wrote: »

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

Davor wrote: »

So your point is?

As you obviously had trouble understanding this, I'll make it clear.

My point is I want an equivalent amount of free rewards as the free players get. I feel i lose out on freebies because I pay.

There. Is that clear enough?

Ok, so your beef is that subscribers don't get extra rewards when free players sometimes get a free week of ESO+, even though they get nothing for the other fifty one weeks of the year.....

The gif seems to be more appropriate for the person who posted it as the message with it just seems lost. While I do not agree with the entitlement that is found in the OP it does not seem to be a great counter argument that they get something we pay for so it is ok.

sulima · December 2018

Ramalamafizzfaj wrote: »

This past couple of months has been a bit of a joke for subscribers in my opinion. Last month there was 7 days of free ESO + for which ESO + subscribers were not offered an equivalent alternative reward. Then they gave murkmire DLC away, making my subscription a little less valuable. Then they let people play for free for a week, with again no equivalent reward for ESO + subscribers or people who had already bought the game.

And what have they done for subscribers? an extra 150 crowns per month. That's actually such a small amount it's an insult.

Got to say, when my Netflix subscriptions for my whole family costs less than ESO+ it makes me wonder...

Dojohoda · December 2018

Not punished, maybe Taxed.

just kidding

FrancisCrawford · December 2018

ESO+ is mainly about the crafting bag, the crowns (assuming one has a use for them), and the housing slots (assuming one cares about those).

The 10% XP is trivial, given the availability of scrolls, including for in-game gold. Besides, from Level 45 onward having ESO+ actively inhibits you from running random dungeons, so over the length of the whole leveling process, you're not really better off than if you didn't have ESO+.