I see I wasn't the only one that made a speedster stam sorc build. Ive seen similar setups in cyrodil and bgs but dissimilar to yours I cant stand proc sets so I run something for my damage and sustain. Personally I feel the steed mundas stone is a waste of attributes and I would rather run the warrior than it as you are already pretty fast. Dissapointed you are not running dizzying swing as speedster builds make it far easier to land. Fighting other speedsters in bgs and cyrodil is honestly fun af and it feels like a flash vs reverse flas battle.

I see I'm not the only one hooked on Swift traits. I've been rocking 3x Swift and speed pots on my Magicka Sorc, and it's amazing! Sorcs work best when mobile, and this is currently the best way to achieve this.

If ZOS ever nerfs this, I'm going to be so mad!

Koensol wrote: »

Aznox wrote: »

Never tried Curse of Doylemish because i though any competitive opponent would have CC break before i have time to land the HA most of the time. What's your experience about this ?

I tested this with a friend of mine who is an amazing PvP'er. He wore doylemish and we duelled to see how it was. In practice, I was able to break free every time before he could proc it. Even with SnB heavy attack. The only use this set has is in Xv1 where you can initiate your heavy attack and land it right after your friends CC the target.

In short: it sucks major donkey balls.

on what class?

montjie wrote: »

@raasdal
The roughly 4.5k is under ideal conditions against light armor targets without armor buff. Against a heavy armor target using with the 5280 resistance buff that number gets turned down to around 3.5k. If the target has minor/major protection that number gets reduced to even less. The set can't crit and its damage isn't influenced by max stam or wep dmg. Under some conditions spammables (ransack/heroic slash) hit/crit for higher.

Regarding the frags you're kinda right and kinda wrong. True, frags do hit hard but you use frags in combination with at least 2 other high damage abilities. Its the combo that makes it so dangerous. Count in the factor they all can crit and you have a very lethal combination. But a frag on its own doesnt really pose a real threat in non-cp.

I find the sets damage not impressive at all considering the conditions youre forced to run it in. Youre just losing too much burst damage not being able to reliably run it on 2h which make it a waste of a 5piece in my opinion.

Not feeling it is enough value for the proc conditions is completely understandable. It forces a very specific choice of gear and playstyle. I can relate.

But trying to argue that a 12k tooltip has weak damage, is just plain nuts. You are hyperinflating the damage value of spammables and undercutting the value of the proc. You are comparing the worst case Doylemish with the best (impossible) case of a spammable. Apples and oranges.

raasdal wrote: »

But trying to argue that a 12k tooltip has weak damage, is just plain nuts. You are hyperinflating the damage value of spammables and undercutting the value of the proc. You are comparing the worst case Doylemish with the best (impossible) case of a spammable. Apples and oranges.

Oh please, on any decent stam build a ransack, can hit for around half of what doy does. When it crits it does even more. No cooldown other that GCD, no 'difficult' situational requirements, spammable.
Heroic does even more damage, given you have fracture on your target.

Dswing absolutely reks doy but granted, Dswing is a different kind of spammable, yet a spammable none the less.

And here comes Doy with its 12k tooltip (lol) once per 7 second 'nuke' which never crits, needs you to pull some game acrobatics and still has no guaranteed pay-off. If the 12k tooltip was oblivion damage u would be making more of a point. But lets not pretend that 12k tooltip is actual bs in combat. Ull probably get somewhere near 4k across the board on average. And thats being generous with the numbers. Not including u being maimed, them having protection and/or whatever else your enemy can do to minimize incoming damage. Hell, sparring with a med armor nightblade I couldnt even reach a 4k proc on him lol
And then whats your follow up? DB? Im sorry but thats not really a burst, and by far a nuke. So yeah, I find the FIXED, UNCRITTABLE 12k tooltip PHYSICAL damage to be weak.

I'm sure it works against potatoes, but then again, almost anything works against potatoes.
As I said in my first post, I would love to see the set work efficiently against a capable player. The set has an interesting 5piece, thats why I tested it out in the first place. But unfortunately the set turned out to be way too underwhelming and thus disappointing.

And I really dont understand where you see me comparing Doys worst case scenario to a spammables best. I gave you a spectrum in which Doy operates (from best to worst) and to put things in perspective on how underwhelming it is, I added the fact that a spammable, which is supposed to be 'weak' still can come close to a 5 piece procsets damage and sometimes even surpass that damage.

Seems like you're idea is getting some steam

I'd be most concerned about shield users with ability(e.g., puncture)-LA-Bash rotation.

@Waffennacht
Those were no-cp results actually.
Cleared all my cp, asked a friend to do the same and duel me to see results.
Youre really not working towards being taken serious again bro.

With cp doy can reach a 16k tt easy btw.
You really have no clue what youre talking about do ya?

@raasdal
Are you guys really this dense or just playing the part to refuse admitting youre wrong?

You are talking CP Skills vs. NO CP Proc values.
Actually no I'm not. I'm talking actual damage done
To reach 10K Tooltip on a spammable in No CP, requires you to go full glass cannon.
Again never have I talked about or referred to high tooltip damage on a spammable other than Dswing and regarding Dswing I admitted Dswing not really fitting in the group of spammables were talking about. Never have I stated spammables do the same damage as Doy. I strongly advise you to go read my posts again. Try this time a bit harder to see whats actually there instead of what you want to see. Hopefully ull see me trying to explain that a spammable on a decent all round build can reach approximately half of the damage that doy does. This is actual damage done on an enemy I'm talking about and have been talking about all the time. Not tooltip. Non crit ransacks can hit targets for 1.5k up to over 2k, heroic slashes even higher. NON CRIT. When they crit they can go even higher. I feel like youre either really misunderstanding what im trying to say, or purposefully are ignoring parts i say while twisting other parts to further 'prove' youre not wrong.
And even then, it is only possible on already high-damage skills, like Flame Lash, Frags etc. Hence why i refer to Doylemish as a Nuke. Because it hits you for more damage than almost any other ability will, in a No CP BG. If your Doylemish hits someone for 4K in a BG, your Ransack will hit for less than 2K.
Well this is pretty much a follow up on a premise that already has been proven false so I'm just gonna skip this one if you dont mind. That last sentence however is what ive been saying this whole damn discussion!!! FFS lol
By your logic and math, both Selene and Caluurions are equally weak damage. ? They have identical Tooltip, and only really varies in the proc conditions.
I've never used or tested Selene and Caluurions. Neither am I familiar with their workings by heart (what potentially buffs the damage, the proc conditions etc etc). So I really don't know tbh.

You keep talking about tooltip damage. I'm having trouble understanding why. U seem like a smart enough person to realize tooltips say little. Take your own example for example (xD). Selene vs Cal. If they do have the same tooltip you surely must know they wont do the same damage solely on the armor types alone. Selene will most likely be used on MA and HA whereas Cal most likely will be used on LA. U get a big spell pen bonus using 5 pieces LA which will impact real damage output and so boost your Cal dam without changing its tooltip. So I dont know why u keep hammering down on tooltip damage while knowing it really isnt that important for the sake of this argument.

Now lets talk about the nuke part cause you dont seem to understand.
Flame lashes turn into powerlashes making them hella stronger for one, 2nd they can crit, 3rd theyre used in combination with other stuff. That combination is what forms the nuke. A flame lash on its own wont do enough damage to 'nuke' someone.
Same goes for frags but ive explained this already.
Doy doesnt crit. The weapon tree youre kinda forced to use with the set (DW) doesnt have a real burst ability other than its execute I guess. So you only have a procset that does uncrittable mediocre damage under relatively difficult to obtain situations followed up by DBoS. Hell, even in your own video youre not able to blow up enemies with that combo, forcing you to bloodthirst them to death.

Nuking from worst to best imo:
LA-Ransack -> Rune Cage/Fossilize/Reverb/Fear -> HA-Setproc-DBoS -> Steel Tornado
Crit Rush -> LAorHA-Dswing -> Crit Rush (if theres time) -> LA-DBoS -> Reverse Slice
LA-Curse -> LA-Force Pulse -> LA-Endless Fury -> LA-Meteor -> La-Rune Cage -> LA-Frags

I'd like to think Doy was ment to be a burst damage set and I find it kinda funny the combo with the worst burst potential is the combo that uses said burst damage set. Don't you?

Waffennacht wrote: »

montjie wrote: »

@Waffennacht
Those were no-cp results actually.
Cleared all my cp, asked a friend to do the same and duel me to see results.
Youre really not working towards being taken serious again bro.

With cp doy can reach a 16k tt easy btw.
You really have no clue what youre talking about do ya?

@raasdal
Are you guys really this dense or just playing the part to refuse admitting youre wrong?

You are talking CP Skills vs. NO CP Proc values.
Actually no I'm not. I'm talking actual damage done
To reach 10K Tooltip on a spammable in No CP, requires you to go full glass cannon.
Again never have I talked about or referred to high tooltip damage on a spammable other than Dswing and regarding Dswing I admitted Dswing not really fitting in the group of spammables were talking about. Never have I stated spammables do the same damage as Doy. I strongly advise you to go read my posts again. Try this time a bit harder to see whats actually there instead of what you want to see. Hopefully ull see me trying to explain that a spammable on a decent all round build can reach approximately half of the damage that doy does. This is actual damage done on an enemy I'm talking about and have been talking about all the time. Not tooltip. Non crit ransacks can hit targets for 1.5k up to over 2k, heroic slashes even higher. NON CRIT. When they crit they can go even higher. I feel like youre either really misunderstanding what im trying to say, or purposefully are ignoring parts i say while twisting other parts to further 'prove' youre not wrong.
And even then, it is only possible on already high-damage skills, like Flame Lash, Frags etc. Hence why i refer to Doylemish as a Nuke. Because it hits you for more damage than almost any other ability will, in a No CP BG. If your Doylemish hits someone for 4K in a BG, your Ransack will hit for less than 2K.
Well this is pretty much a follow up on a premise that already has been proven false so I'm just gonna skip this one if you dont mind. That last sentence however is what ive been saying this whole damn discussion!!! FFS lol
By your logic and math, both Selene and Caluurions are equally weak damage. ? They have identical Tooltip, and only really varies in the proc conditions.
I've never used or tested Selene and Caluurions. Neither am I familiar with their workings by heart (what potentially buffs the damage, the proc conditions etc etc). So I really don't know tbh.

You keep talking about tooltip damage. I'm having trouble understanding why. U seem like a smart enough person to realize tooltips say little. Take your own example for example (xD). Selene vs Cal. If they do have the same tooltip you surely must know they wont do the same damage solely on the armor types alone. Selene will most likely be used on MA and HA whereas Cal most likely will be used on LA. U get a big spell pen bonus using 5 pieces LA which will impact real damage output and so boost your Cal dam without changing its tooltip. So I dont know why u keep hammering down on tooltip damage while knowing it really isnt that important for the sake of this argument.

Now lets talk about the nuke part cause you dont seem to understand.
Flame lashes turn into powerlashes making them hella stronger for one, 2nd they can crit, 3rd theyre used in combination with other stuff. That combination is what forms the nuke. A flame lash on its own wont do enough damage to 'nuke' someone.
Same goes for frags but ive explained this already.
Doy doesnt crit. The weapon tree youre kinda forced to use with the set (DW) doesnt have a real burst ability other than its execute I guess. So you only have a procset that does uncrittable mediocre damage under relatively difficult to obtain situations followed up by DBoS. Hell, even in your own video youre not able to blow up enemies with that combo, forcing you to bloodthirst them to death.

Nuking from worst to best imo:
LA-Ransack -> Rune Cage/Fossilize/Reverb/Fear -> HA-Setproc-DBoS -> Steel Tornado
Crit Rush -> LAorHA-Dswing -> Crit Rush (if theres time) -> LA-DBoS -> Reverse Slice
LA-Curse -> LA-Force Pulse -> LA-Endless Fury -> LA-Meteor -> La-Rune Cage -> LA-Frags

I'd like to think Doy was ment to be a burst damage set and I find it kinda funny the combo with the worst burst potential is the combo that uses said burst damage set. Don't you?

I do know in CP my Doyle's Tooltip is 16k

I do know my DboS tooltip is 15k on the same build (edit: unbuffed, 16k with brutality up - and of course Doyle is static and DB is a variable, but the basic idea is Doyle is nowhere as weak as you make it out to be)

I also know I'm on the Leaderboards

I do know I've played for almost 4 years

I didn't know Sorcs still used Frags in PvP though

I have no idea why your build doesn't have penetration or whatever it is that has Doyle do only 25% (or 50% PvP) damage only

Edit again:

montjie wrote: »

I've never used or tested Selene and Caluurions. Neither am I familiar with their workings by heart (what potentially buffs the damage, the proc conditions etc etc). So I really don't know tbh.

Wait... GTFO, you haven't used or tested Selene or Cal?

[snip]

[Edit for bait.]

Says the guy "that's on the leaderboards"

Pvp leaderboards are a joke in this game

Love your build ideas, rasdaal. They always are kinda niche, but smart. Keep it up.

No vigor?

Nice build! How are you proccing Doylemish in PVP? Is it taunted enemies only?

Re. Swift - @JackDaniell has some amazing builds on his YT using swift traits on jewels including his hybrids. It's OP!