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What happened to the Dwemer

rexagamemnon
rexagamemnon
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Ok so i have heard multiple stories about the dwemer. What the heck happened to them? And is it possible we will ever see the dwemer in an Elder Scrolls game or ESO
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Go play TES III Morrowind.

    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn
    While its never explicitly revealed/confirmed what exactly happened, they disappeared after Kagrenac used his tools on the Heart of Lorkhan. The Nerevarine reports this back to the Archmage of the Mages Guild where nobody does anything useful with that info until Skyrim, when Arniel Gane attempts and presumably fails to replicate Kagrenac's actions with a depowered Keening.
    Edited by VaranisArano on November 23, 2018 7:52PM
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  • Froil
    Froil
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    Nobody knows what actually happened though there are many theories, but we know that it happened during the second Battle of Red Mountain where Kagrenac planned to use the profane tools Sunder, Keening and Wraithguard on the Heart of Lorkhan found deep within the Red Mountain itself.
    At the very least, we know they are no longer on Tamriel, perhaps somewhere else in the Mundus, though the spirits of some do remain, as well as the last Dwarf, Yagrum Bagarn in TES III: Morrowind, but even they don't know what happened.

    As to whether or not we'll see the Dwemer alive in any other Elder Scrolls game or know what truly happened to them, it seems very unlikely as the Dwemer's disappearance is one of the greatest and captivating mysteries in the lore and, unless retconned or they decide to reintroduce them from wherever they went, is not really possible.
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  • Bruccius
    Bruccius
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    I'll tell you exactly what happened to them. It may be hard to believe it, some people might hate me for saying it, but it's the only absolute truth we have right now. Every source we have on what happened to them tends to agree with this, so the answer I am about to put down has to be legitimate. It's the only answer that makes sense if you put all the theories together, and if you gather all the evidence possible.

    They vanished.
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  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
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    The got nerfed out of existence just like trapping webs and volcanic rune
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  • AllegraLionheart
    I'm going to attempt a real answer, here, based on my own research and several hours of wiki-binging with too much caffeine. I'll provide links for more reading as we go. Spoiler Alert for other ES games to follow.

    Let's start with the Dwemer themselves, particularly their religion. They refuted the ideas of worshiping the creators of Nirn, Oblivion, and all subsequent laws of the ES universe. Instead, they tinkered and experimented to find out how the machine works, so to speak, going as far as finding the literal Heart of Lorkhan in the depths of Red Mountain and experimenting on it. (Literally, it's the disembodied heart of a god, ripped from Lorkhan's body and fired into the inner sea by Auri-El in the Dawn era).
    Heart of Lorkhan:http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Heart_of_Lorkhan
    The Dwemer understood there was indeed divine power in the universe. Under the rule of the Dwemer King Dumac (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dumac), the Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kagrenac) used his legendary tools (Keening, Sunder, Wraithguard) to draw divine power from Lorkhan's heart to create the Dwemer's OWN god, known as the Numidium.
    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Numidium
    It's due to note that the Numidium appears in a LOT of ES lore, stolen by the Chimer, was eventually gifted from the Tribunal to Tiber Septim at the end of the 2nd era, who used it to conquer all of Tamriel, caused a Dragon Break (time anomaly) or three, killed a lot of Altmer, was thought to be destroyed, and then reappeared in TESIII: Morrowind being rebuilt as Akulakhan.
    WE'RE NOT HITTING ALL THAT because omg.
    Just know that Numidium/Akulakhan = Dwemer God powered by Lorkhan's divine power. Not just a idol of worship, but a literal God with divine power, so much so that its activation can and will break time itself for a while, as it did in the Warp in the West in TESII: Redguard.

    Now let's talk about worship and divinity in the Elder Scrolls universe.
    Worship and death are highly connected in TES. Worship a Daedra, you go to their plane of Oblivion when your mortal body dies. (Ex., Hircine's children go to his Hunting Grounds, Nocturnal's to Evergloam, Molag Bal's to Coldharbour, and so on). That's pretty simple.
    Aedra are a BIT more complex, since they created Nirn, and therefore do not have an Oblivion plane. Rather, most tamrielic races have a pantheon of respective Aedra whom they worship, and their souls (without Daedric intervention) are taken to various planes of Aetherius upon death. Sovngarde (Nord) and The Far Shores (Redguard) are two named examples of this, although many Aetherial planes do not have canon names. As another example, Argonians may refer to "swimming the rivers of Aetherius" as a means of returning to the Hist, meaning that their souls are claimed by the Hist upon death. (Are Hist lowkey "Aedra?" Idk fam you decide that.)

    "But wait, why does each race go to a different plane of Aetherius?" you might rightfully ask.
    Well, uh... Each race has a different answer for this, tbh. I'll TL;DR it by saying that it's tied to their individual stories of creation.
    More Reading: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Ehlnofey#Old_Ehlnofey

    This leads us to believe that, even if you have an atheist individual on Nirn who follows no divine being at all, their soul will return to whence their RACE came, UNLESS it is snatched away by devotion to another divine being.

    So... If Dwemer are elves, and elves came from Aldmer, who came from OLD Ehlnofey, who came from Aedra, they would consequently go to some flavor of Aetherius upon death, yeah?
    Well uhhhhhHHHHHHHH not necessarily.
    Dwemer origins are dubious at best.
    We don't know their origins, since they just "appeared" in the ES timeline in the First Era at some point. It's supposed that they existed prior, but they don't appear in any creation stories from the Dawn Era. However, it's still possible, as Septimus Signus uses false "Dwemer Blood" gathered from living elven races to unlock a Dwemer mechanism in the 4th Era. (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Discerning_the_Transmundane)
    The ES Wiki suggests that the Dwemer were indeed descendants of the Old Ehlnofey, but no convincing sources beyond this are provided, so I'm not sold on this.
    Yet, some sources suggest they're time travelers (https://www.imperial-library.info/content/secret-dwemer-origins) from another Kalpa (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa).
    I'll leave that for you to decide, since I'm undecided, myself. Not only does the time travel theory open up several other worm cans (does the future kalpa have the same laws of Aetherius are ours? Same Aedra/Daedra? Likely not. And how did they get stuck on Nirn in this kalpa, and WHY would they have come?)

    SO NOW WE HAVE THE BACKGROUND INFO. Let's talk about the Dwemer's final disappearance.

    In the 1st Era, year 700, Kagrenac had worked away at the Heart of Lorkhan, using his tools to build the Brass God Numidium, by many accounts seeking to bring the Dwemer people to divine ascension and godhood. This understandably scared the *** out of their Chimer allies, who attacked the Dwemer in response, culminating into a great battle within the Heart's chamber. It is unclear who used Kagrenac's tools on the Heart in their final use, with sources pointing to BOTH Indoril Nerevar, the pre-divine Tribunal, and even Kagrenac himself in this battle.
    Regardless, use of the tools activated the Numidium, causing a Dragon Break, where all timelines flayed into a million pieces. During this time, Indoril Nerevar died (killed by his wounds from the battle, slain by the Tribunal, or both), and the Dwemer disappeared. When the Numidium shut down, the Dwemer were gone.

    Some suggest that they achieved CHIM, and consequently Zero Summed, wiping their souls from the universe, sending them back to the Dreamsieve, until they are reborn into the next kalpa. Read more here if you have no idea what I'm referring to, as it's a stupidly complex piece of lore: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/CHIM
    Dreamsieve and Godhead for those who REALLY want to mindfreak themselves: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/13ejex/whowhat_is_athe_godheads/

    This, however, is not the case anyway, as their souls are seen wandering the halls of their ruins in TESIII: Morrowind. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarven_Spectre

    Dwemer souls DID exist in the 3rd Era, so they didn't Zero Sum OR achieve godhood. So WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED?
    I'm still getting there, fam.

    **Side note, we know they didn't achieve CHIM godhood, since we know what happens when someone achieves godhood in TES. They become Vivec or Talos. No Dwemer are Vivec or Talos.**

    "Wait wait, Dwemer souls existed in the 3rd era... But we're playing ESO in the 2nd Era.. So why aren't we seeing them wandering around in the EXACT same ruins we explore in TESIII: Morrowind?" you ask again, astutely.

    One Word: Akulakhan.

    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Akulakhan
    We mentioned this big boi earlier, as the second reconstruction of the Numidium after it was sort-of destroyed after the Warp in the West in TESII: Redguard.

    For all intents and purposes, the Dwemer God Numidium is shut down and in pieces, virtually destroyed, by ESO's period in the 2nd Era.
    It is worth noting, in ESO's Dragon Bones DLC, you can enter Fang Lair, and overhear a necromancer speaking of how she attempts to raise the Dwemer's souls from the dead, but... "They never speak to me!" she cries, before being killed by a four-man Undaunted raid.
    Necromancers and Mystics call souls from Oblivion AND Aetherius ALL THE GOT DANG TIME. So if the Dwemer are somewhere in Aetherius, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT.
    But they can't.
    Hmmmm.

    By the 3rd Era, TESIII: Morrowind, Dagoth Ur is going bananas and building the Brass God once more as Akulakhan for his own nefarious purposes. And, suddenly, Dwemer souls are chilling out in their old ruins, doing whatever ghosts do. Without any evidence of necromantic shenanigans, it appears that the Dwemer ghosts appear of their own accord in this era.

    So there is A CLEAR CONNECTION between Akulakhan/Numidium and the Dwemer souls. Dare I say, they are BOUND TO THEIR GOD.

    "How TF does that work, Allegra? How could a race appear and disappear with their God?" you ask, rightfully thinking I'm a nutcase.

    Another word: SKYRIMMMM.
    Specifically, TESV: Skyrim answers the question about how a soul can be bound to ANOTHER soul in the 4th Era.

    Bring in our boy from the College of Winterhold, Arniel Gane. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Arniel_Gane
    In the quest Arniel's Endeavor, this Breton Mage attempts to recreate what happened at the Battle of Red Mountain, where the Dwemer disappeared. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Arniel's_Endeavor

    Arniel has the Dragonborn finely tune a warped soul gem to serve as a mini "Heart of Lorkhan" (don't ask me how that works, idk fam), and then uses Keening (Kagrenac's tool, remember?) to stab the mini Heart.
    Upon doing this, Arniel... Vanishes. Poof.
    Upon disappearing, the Dragonborn can summon Arniel's Shade at will, as he is bound to the Dragonborn. When not in use/summoned, one can find Arniel's Shade wandering around the College of Winterhold, unaware that he has died.

    So... How does this tie into what happened to the Dwemer?

    Curiously, this theory relies heavily on whether or not Arniel's experiment was a TRUE reconstruction of what happened at Red Mountain in 1E 700.
    ASSUMING this is true, however, we push on with the theory.

    We look back to 1E 700, when Kagrenac (or whoever) struck Lorkhan's Heart, the power source of Numidium, Keening's power caused a disturbance to the Brass God. A few things could have happened:
    - Numidium's burst of power could have killed all who worshiped it (Dwemer)
    - Numidium could have been "injured," as happened to Meridia in ESO's Summerset main quest, causing all Meridian worshipers who touched her remaining power to disappear into her realm (Darien Gautier and Dawnbreaker, for example). Numidium withdrew into itself, dragging the souls of the Dwemer in with it.
    - Some other crazy metaphysical stuff, idk.

    When Numidium is active, in use, or at least ABLE to be functional, the Dwemer ghosts persist, bound to Numidium's "soul," as it were, much like Arniel's Shade is bound to the Dragonborn.
    However, Numidium was disassembled and made unusable after the Warp in the West (before ESO), and so the Dwemer's souls were trapped within Numidium. Dead God, no souls.

    When Akulakhan was built in the 3rd Era, Morrowind, suddenly Numidium's power was revivified, and so the Dwemer Shades/Souls could wander freely once more, with their God in existence.

    However, the Nerevarene destroyed Akulakhan, and so the Numidium's power was lost, forever.
    If the Numidium is gone, and the Dwemer souls are bound to it, then their souls are gone forever, as well.

    "YAGRAM BAGARN," somebody else yells, busting through a wall to discredit the theory.
    http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Yagrum_Bagarn_(Morrowind)

    For those who don't know, he's a living Dwemer who is encountered in TESIII:Morrowind, who was in a different plane of Oblivion when his ENTIRE race disappeared. The year haven't been good to him, tbh.

    So... If Numidium was connected to the Dwemer, and Numidium died, why did Yagrum survive?

    [TO BE CONTINUED IN NEXT POST]
    [Edited some things for accuracy 11/29/18 1:32PM EDT]
    Edited by AllegraLionheart on November 29, 2018 6:32PM
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  • AllegraLionheart
    (CONTINUED FROM THE ABOVE POST)

    My theory: Its power source.
    Lorkhan is the dead god whose fault all this is, anyway. He created part of Nirn... but NOT Oblivion. Oblivion isn't his realm, and so perhaps Lorkhan's/Numidium's divine power could only reach through all of Nirn, but couldn't pierce the veil which prevented Daedra from interfering with mortal affairs without additional help from mortals, themselves.
    (Not an ideal explanation, but that's the best I've got to explain Yagram).

    IN SUMMARY / TL;DR
    Dwemer built their god, worshiped it, which bound their souls to it. They vanished when Lorkhan's heart was struck by Keening, causing a burst of divine power that tore their souls from their bodies, leaving ash behind. This god (Numidium) was destroyed in later eras, along with the Dwemer souls tied to it.

    THE END.


    Metaphysical timey-wimey nonsense from contradicting sources that makes TES so wonderful. It may be true, maybe not, but that's the best I can give ya right now.
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  • Ash_In_My_Sujamma
    Ash_In_My_Sujamma
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    They got disconected from the server
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  • Claudman
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    Depends on who you're listening to.

    They either...
    • Vanished form this current Dragon Break.
    • Ceased to exist (Zero-Sum).
    • Bound themselves to the nearest Divine Object (Which would've been the Numidium or Walk-Brass).
    • Teleported to some ascended plane.
    • Teleported to a demiplane (yes, people actually believe they went to the Demiplanes of Masser/Secunda and I frankly don't know why).
    • Literally just died.
    • Are now controlling the Numidium and can influence it from beyond existence...Ugh...Cue c0da's horrendous story.
    • We have no idea!

    Regardless of what anyone says, it's all left up to interpretation until there is a DLC or game that finally decides to touch base on the sensitive topic which would probably *** off a lot of people. People will be mad if it is proven, because people want to be right and don't want their theories to be wrong. I enjoy when my theories are wrong, it's like a plot twist.

    EDIT: I forgot to answer that question too. You see a Dwemer (Dwemer Specters and my favorite Dwemeri n'wah) in Morrowind, so we've already seen Dwemer in TES before.
    lLKa1fP3.jpg
    latest?cb=20150308164851
    And yes, the Specters are as tall as Dunmer.
    Edited by Claudman on November 29, 2018 6:40PM
    Welcome, Moon-and-Star, to this place where destiny is made.

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    I primarily play Damage-Based stuff in PvP, but occasionally I'll play something tanky or got the heals.
    I also love gaining more knowledge both metaphysical and mundane regarding TES lore.

    I also occasionally role-play, but I prefer playing the game.
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  • AllegraLionheart
    Claudman wrote: »
    I enjoy when my theories are wrong, it's like a plot twist.
    Right?? Same here. TES lore just blows my mind all the time. It's madly complex and beautiful. <3
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  • rexagamemnon
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    @AllegraLionheart thank you for that very detailed answer, that must of took you a long time to type and research. Do you think we will ever see the dwemer again?
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  • AllegraLionheart
    @AllegraLionheart thank you for that very detailed answer, that must of took you a long time to type and research. Do you think we will ever see the dwemer again?

    No problem! It's one of my favorite pieces of lore, and I low-key love getting all Pepe Silvia on it.
    m7xkhz2h59d1.jpg

    But I don't think we'll see the Dwemer again, at least not in this kalpa (even if they ARE time travelers, and that's a massive stretch). It's possible that somebody could attempt to bring back the Numidium for a 3rd time, and we might be able to see the Dwemer shades again, but I feel like Beth/ZOS have other fish to fry, story-wise.
    But hey, it's ES. Nothing is impossible except fixing Cyrodiil lag. ;) (ShamelessofftopicplugbutI'mreallypassionateaboutit)
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  • mague
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    They went where the D'Ni dwell. Unknown.

    I think it is possible to meet them again. They could be on a different planet. Which would open up a lot of physical space for ES and/or ESO updates.
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  • Defilted
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    I thought this guy summed it up pretty well..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK-WXrOhoHU


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  • rexagamemnon
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    @AllegraLionheart what are the bigger fish to fry in TES series and what big fish do you think will be fried in ESO? I a huge fan of the Imperials, second high elves and then Nords, the high elves have gotten their big show with summerset, do you think there is a chance to get Nord or Imperial DLC’s/chapters? I’ve heatd people say that the ten year anniversary of TES 5:Skyrim is comming up and ZOS would be foolish not to capitalize on that.
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  • AllegraLionheart
    @AllegraLionheart what are the bigger fish to fry in TES series and what big fish do you think will be fried in ESO? I a huge fan of the Imperials, second high elves and then Nords, the high elves have gotten their big show with summerset, do you think there is a chance to get Nord or Imperial DLC’s/chapters? I’ve heatd people say that the ten year anniversary of TES 5:Skyrim is comming up and ZOS would be foolish not to capitalize on that.

    Mmmm I LOVE me some Nords. <3
    TS5 Skyrim was my first intro to Elder Scrolls in the first place, so an extra delve into the lands of Skyrim would be SO wonderfully nostalgic, not to mention a draw for the still-consistent Skyrim playerbase. However, that 10-year anniversary still isn't happening until 2021, so we've got a couple years to see. I think it's probable, though, since Nords haven't gotten a ton of love in ESO, likely due to the vast popularity of TES5 before it and not wanting to over-saturate the playerbase with NordthisNordthat again.
    I wouldn't mind it, personally, but I'm only a single player in a large community. ;)

    As far as TES and ESO go, I feel like Elsweyr, Elsweyr, Elsweyr is such magnificently untouched territory with fabulous potential and mystery, if done well. Dataminers found some new Elsweyr filenames after the first Murkmire release (which was removed shortly thereafter), so I don't think that's too far off the mark for ESO, at least. *I no longer have the link, it's worth noting.*
    Either way, this could be a couple of dungeons like WolfHunter, or an expansion into new territory like Murkmire.

    Beyond that? No idea, ESO-wise. Imperials haven't gotten much love, either, and are still considered a rarer commodity with the extra price you pay to access them. There isn't much territory for ZOS to cover, either, lore-wise, since majority of them are caught up in the war in Cyrodiil, which isn't going anywhere anytime soon for ESO. So I don't see any Imperial-based DLC coming out.

    Back to TES as a whole, I see them either filling in more of the map of Tamriel (Elsweyr<3), continuing the story of the 3rd Aldmeri Dominion and fall of the Empire (potentially in Hammerfell, where the resistance was alive and well in the 4th Era), or a mix of both. The aftermath of the Great War and subsequent war of succession in Skyrim will be rife with delicious plotlines over the whole continent, so I'm sure it will have something to do with that.

    -

    Of course, TES may also someday choose to break new ground by sending us to one of the unexplored continents. Akavir or Atmora, perhaps. Wars and battles among mortals which sunder entire landmasses aren't unheard of in TES, and neither are airships and mass migrations across long distances. Alduin the World-Eater was undone, and therefore this kalpa cannot come to a close, so the world may continue to deteriorate until some are forced to migrate to different continents, away from Tamriel.
    Would TES do that?
    If anything, it'd be Akavir. And then, still probably nahhh.
    Would ESO show us another continent for once? Akaviri, Tsaesci?
    Super nahhhh, probably.
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  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    we are right here with you
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  • Streega
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    I'm going to attempt a real answer, here, based on my own research and several hours of wiki-binging with too much caffeine. I'll provide links for more reading as we go. Spoiler Alert for other ES games to follow.
    (...) Yet, some sources suggest they're time travelers (https://www.imperial-library.info/content/secret-dwemer-origins) from another Kalpa (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa). (...)

    Note that it's a concept literature, never made it to the game. Also apparently author of this this "source" debunks the theory himself: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2yq9wt/secret_dwemer_origins/cpc8m0v/ Looks like it's another "Bugs in the Jar" case ;)
    Edited by Streega on December 3, 2018 5:56PM
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  • AllegraLionheart
    Streega wrote: »
    I'm going to attempt a real answer, here, based on my own research and several hours of wiki-binging with too much caffeine. I'll provide links for more reading as we go. Spoiler Alert for other ES games to follow.
    (...) Yet, some sources suggest they're time travelers (https://www.imperial-library.info/content/secret-dwemer-origins) from another Kalpa (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Kalpa). (...)

    Note that it's a concept literature, never made it to the game. Also apparently author of this this "source" debunks the theory himself: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2yq9wt/secret_dwemer_origins/cpc8m0v/ Looks like it's another "Bugs in the Jar" case ;)

    Almost certainly. Mike Kirkbride's work is criticized widely as being less-than-canon, and more his interpretation of ES beyond Morrowind, which is reasonable. That's why I like using such things like the time-traveler page as a means of adding a different perspective to the multi-faceted and sometimes historically conflicting stories ES. So we take it with a grain of salt. :)
    I agree, though, the time traveler theory seems to hold the least water out of them all, but I don't hold my own to be the ultimate truthy truth, either. xD
    Edited by AllegraLionheart on December 3, 2018 6:05PM
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  • rexagamemnon
    rexagamemnon
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    @AllegraLionheart akavir would be awesome especially with eso. But i dont hold my breath about it
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  • Katheriah
    Katheriah
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  • Merlin13KAGL
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    I think there are two diverging theories:
    1. They tried to queue for a Random Dungeon
    2. They tried to log in via Steam.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

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  • OFFL1MIT
    OFFL1MIT
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    Im might be wrong, but this is my believes.

    Falmers killed them all.
    Falmers used to be slaves, working for dwemers, but something got out of hand and falmers wiped all dwemer race.
    Have you ever found dwemer skeleton, or any remainings? I haven't so my thinking that it's definitely falmers job. They ate dwemers and made toothpicks out of them.
    I dont think some1 from outside wiped them, the ruins look so preserved and untouched, and all those machines were still operating and securing the place, but it ignored falmers since they were dwemers slaves, so dwemers were defenseless, they had big brains not strong bodies.

    Oh falmers only found at dwemer ruins, so how come they survived that cataclysm but dwemers didn't?
    Edited by OFFL1MIT on December 6, 2018 1:01AM
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  • Bruccius
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    OFFL1MIT wrote: »
    Im might be wrong, but this is my believes.

    Falmers killed them all.
    Falmers used to be slaves, working for dwemers, but something got out of hand and falmers wiped all dwemer race.
    Have you ever found dwemer skeleton, or any remainings? I haven't so my thinking that it's definitely falmers job. They ate dwemers and made toothpicks out of them.
    I dont think some1 from outside wiped them, the ruins look so preserved and untouched, and all those machines were still operating and securing the place, but it ignored falmers since they were dwemers slaves, so dwemers were defenseless, they had big brains not strong bodies.

    Oh falmers only found at dwemer ruins, so how come they survived that cataclysm but dwemers didn't?

    It is recorded that when the Falmer had planned to attack the Dwemer, they were already gone.
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  • TelvanniWizard
    TelvanniWizard
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    They are in a non-stop party with all the children and Water closets of Tamriel, probably in some weird daedric plane!
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