SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

What i get from this is that some people will just refuse to acknowledge the problems that plague eso, and are observable in game by pretty much every single user, one example would be performance, all kinds of performance.

What I get from this is that some people will just refuse to acknowledge that not everyone suffers those problems.

It's simply a fact of life that I haven't had a significant performance problem with the game since PC launch, for example, yet some are quick to assume that I'm either lying or too stupid to recognise the problems I must be having.It's all down to a combination of things like player location, hardware setup, software setup, and most importantly the playstyle adopted.

I don't deny that other people have serious issues, although I do question whether they are all down to ZOS, and I do challenge the claim that "they are observable in game by pretty much every single user".

That is true and fair enough but you have said many times you just play the game as a solo player, so, and I mean this with no offence at all, you have not touched the vast majority of the game, end game content, pvp/trials/vet dungeons or w/e wherein issues happen, like in a raid on PvP and most of the people there cannot fire off even light attacks, that is not the fault of every single player there, the server just cannot cope, so it is up to ZoS to provide game stability

I play solo getting my surveys done and stuff, and there are no performance issues remotely, because you are not doing anything to warrant server load, but on trials, or end game stuff, issues can happen, and it is those that people rant about.

I personally do have significant problems, but I do get microstutters every so often, and I have a custom built high end gaming pc and good net, and know what I am doing with tech.

There are issues with the megaservers, that is undeniable fact of life, I am not saying it is all down to ZoS either as I imagine many people are playing on potatoe rigs, with rubbish net and do not have a clue on how to maintain their rig and then blame it on the game, but for some of us who know better, there are still a issue or two that crops up, normally on prime time.

You are likely entirely right, within the parameters of your play style, and the time you play. However, like @Tandor, I have no issues other than those that I know are due solely to my crap satellite connection.

Regarding machine.... mine's not a beast. It's a decent two year old rig. I run the game on ultra, and don't have issues - even though my connection is.... um.... FAR LESS than optimal.... Yeah. Satellite is not the way to play an MMO.... but sat's what I have, and as long as I just putz around solo, I get by.

No, I'm never going to complete the MQ - or any other quest line where the "mini boss" is.... way more than I can handle with 2000+ ms lag. But you know what? That's fine. I love this game. I love TES, I'm jonesing for TES VI (as long as it's not just VR - no WAY I can do that with my age, my eyes, and vertigo) and I seriously love ESO.

Some of us.... don't get all that bent over things, as long as the game gives us pleasure beyond measure. That's where I am. I wish you were there too.

agegarton wrote: »

There is not "too much negativity toward the development team".

Here's a little reality: If you walked into a hardware store and bought a bucket, got home and found the bucket had a hole in it, you'd take it back to the store. The staff at the store would talk with you, they'd listen to your problem, and in most cases they would simply give you a bucket without a hole in it.

They don't argue that there is no hole.

They engage with you and communicate.

They let you know if there are no new buckets in stock; they let you know when one will be available. They inform.

They ultimately will treat you like a paying customer, even if sometimes they aren't so good at that.

Now, I get that buckets are a bit less complex than this massive online game. However, none of the above points are invalid because of that. The reason people naturally blame the folks who wrote the code is because the people who should be on the customer service desk identifying where the hole is, and talking about what they can do so my bucket holds water, are all too often AWOL. Communication from ZoS s horribly erratic, and never specific. More often than not the communication from ZoS on these forums is to tell us that someone said a naughty word - rarely to acknowledge the point being made. Never to provide specific info.

Bugs won't kill this game. ZoS treating those who fund their wages like *** just might.

Oops, I said a naughty word.

This is really the disconnect between games and any other product or service. For some reason, a large portion of game consumers put manufacturers on a pedestal and they can do no wrong. For any other product, if you repeatedly contacted the manufacturer about a defect and got nothing but silence, misdirection, blatant lies about future improvements, or got told that you had to frame your dissatisfaction dispassionately and help them fix problems with their product only a small percentage of human doormats would tolerate that; but here in the gaming world it's celebrated and embraced.

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Maybe if they did the right thing and fixed the stuff we are so negative about we wouldn't be so negative.... like calling a plumber to fix your sink and he either tells you no eta or half asses it til you call him again to halfass it

agegarton wrote: »

There is not "too much negativity toward the development team".

Here's a little reality: If you walked into a hardware store and bought a bucket, got home and found the bucket had a hole in it, you'd take it back to the store. The staff at the store would talk with you, they'd listen to your problem, and in most cases they would simply give you a bucket without a hole in it.

They don't argue that there is no hole.

They engage with you and communicate.

They let you know if there are no new buckets in stock; they let you know when one will be available. They inform.

They ultimately will treat you like a paying customer, even if sometimes they aren't so good at that.

Now, I get that buckets are a bit less complex than this massive online game. However, none of the above points are invalid because of that. The reason people naturally blame the folks who wrote the code is because the people who should be on the customer service desk identifying where the hole is, and talking about what they can do so my bucket holds water, are all too often AWOL. Communication from ZoS s horribly erratic, and never specific. More often than not the communication from ZoS on these forums is to tell us that someone said a naughty word - rarely to acknowledge the point being made. Never to provide specific info.

Bugs won't kill this game. ZoS treating those who fund their wages like *** just might.

Oops, I said a naughty word.

Your comparison is not quite right, in this instance the “hardware store” would be where you bought the game from, not the developer. If I go the place where the bucket was made, I’d likely be thrown out.

I'd agree with you, but we're talking about i) a manufacturer which also serves as e-retailer, the same as many online games houses these days - they made the bucket and they sold to bucket to me, and ii) it's an analogy about service.

lordrichter wrote: »

I'm sure it is not because the ZOS employees don't want to help, but I assume that decisions are in place that prevent it.

This. I'm sure the rank and file employees would love to get everything fixed and tell us how they feel about everything we complain about and what they are trying to do to fix it. But some higher ups have put a gag order on them.... for whatever reason. It must be pretty important to them to value silence over customer relations. And to be willing to pay for silence with cancelled subscriptions and evacuating players.

In short go play Eve for a year and read their forums. Go play on their test server, read the dev blogs, check out their reddit. That is a dev team that cares managed by people who care who work for a company that cares.

Customer service is stellar over at CCP. I spent 2 hours navigating in circles for customer service here and finally went to the BBB and managed to get an email address of some VP or something who i sent an email and within minutes i had people that who were so eager to help me i thought they was going to drive to my house.

Eve the bugs are all fixed ASAP. They hotfix stuff rather than just let it go. If a patch harms the game, they roll back the patch and fix the patch then roll out the corrected version. Not just say oh well and move on to trying to sell me reskinned mounts and houses for insane prices.

Eve's dev team actually interacts with players, sometimes in person. They have round tables with their customers, ZOS doesnt even know what a round table( in this context) is. And you wont find a ZOS dev anywhere. Not a single post on the forums from anyone but Gina and people of a similar position. All you get here is a PR wall.

CCP makes Zenimax look like a bunch of high school kids when it comes to professionalism and quality of work. But what do you expect? The quality of TES games have went down since about TES III. IV started the slide down but V went right off a cliff with quality. ESO over the last 18 months or so has become horrible with the problems and lack of balance and the nerf wrecking balls, and knee jerk over reactions from ZOS.

I really wish they would sell ESO to CCP that would be my dream.

melloni_aleb16_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

melloni_aleb16_ESO wrote: »

rexagamemnon wrote: »

But the truth is The Dev team on ESO is doing really well. ..... So thank you @ZOS for doing a good job.

yes SURE!!!! especially the pvp dev team !!! 80% of stamina players play DW hit you with bloodcraze/ rending slashes and.....spamming steel tornado again..again and again..and again..and again.....etc

really funny !

Skills (no matter where used) are responsibilities of combat team not PvP team. If You want to blame someone atleast blame proper people.

Then ?

do they also have two separate teams? Pvp team and combat team? really?
and in two teams can patch after patch to insert "something" (mechanics which affect PVP / skills / set which affects the PVP) that ruins the gaming pvp experience?


if you wanted to defend them .... so you get the opposite ahahahahahaha Really great!



Bye

Yes they in fact have 2 separate teams , PvP team lead by Brian Wheeler and combat team lead by Eric Wrobel. PvP dev team is not responsible for things You claim they're. I dont want to defend them I just state that if You want to create constructive criticism atleast know who is the object of it.

Jaraal wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Eve's dev team actually interacts with players, sometimes in person. They have round tables with their customers, ZOS doesnt even know what a round table( in this context) is. And you wont find a ZOS dev anywhere. Not a single post on the forums from anyone but Gina and people of a similar position. All you get here is a PR wall.

Reminds me of EverQuest, back in the day. You could /petition in-game if you were having a problem with another character, got stuck in the landscape, item disappeared, whatever. And then a GM or guide (sometimes more than one) would show up, as a player character, survey the situation, and then take care of whatever the problem was. GMs would hold spontaneous events, like showing up as some badass character and fight the hoards of players, then reward everyone who participated and give special rewards to who did best. Or they would go around in character handing out milk and cookies to players at Christmas. Even the management/ownership would come out to play and chat with us. All sorts of ways to interact with and create happy players.

So when I see the loading screen that says 'Real game masters will have a "Z" in a square box by their name', I laugh, because in all my playing time I have never seen anyone like that in the game. The interaction here is mostly just questions met with silence, or warnings about not adhering to forum rules.

No...no, i dont mean as an avatar in the game. I mean in the same real world room as you usually at a fanfest even( held in Las Vegas). The devs interact with players in person, like you can have a beer with one.

Look up "Warp to the dance floor" by Permaband on youtube. All participants are( or were at the time) CCP employees. Thats the kind of employees you deal with when you play Eve. The employees here act like they enjoy their job less than the person handing you your stuff at the drive thru. In fact you have to hunt to even know who works here outside of the PR team.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

In short go play Eve for a year and read their forums. Go play on their test server, read the dev blogs, check out their reddit. That is a dev team that cares managed by people who care who work for a company that cares.

Customer service is stellar over at CCP. I spent 2 hours navigating in circles for customer service here and finally went to the BBB and managed to get an email address of some VP or something who i sent an email and within minutes i had people that who were so eager to help me i thought they was going to drive to my house.

Eve the bugs are all fixed ASAP. They hotfix stuff rather than just let it go. If a patch harms the game, they roll back the patch and fix the patch then roll out the corrected version. Not just say oh well and move on to trying to sell me reskinned mounts and houses for insane prices.

Eve's dev team actually interacts with players, sometimes in person. They have round tables with their customers, ZOS doesnt even know what a round table( in this context) is. And you wont find a ZOS dev anywhere. Not a single post on the forums from anyone but Gina and people of a similar position. All you get here is a PR wall.

CCP makes Zenimax look like a bunch of high school kids when it comes to professionalism and quality of work. But what do you expect? The quality of TES games have went down since about TES III. IV started the slide down but V went right off a cliff with quality. ESO over the last 18 months or so has become horrible with the problems and lack of balance and the nerf wrecking balls, and knee jerk over reactions from ZOS.

I really wish they would sell ESO to CCP that would be my dream.

This, so much. People won't realise truly how bad Zenimax is at their job, until they play another game within the genre. I had more or less the exact same experience when I started playing Warframe. It was basically a wake up call for me, shocking me into realising just how badly ESO is being managed.

Now, don't get me wrong. No game is without fault. Digital Extremes, the devs of Warframe, have issues. For instance, they are guilty of screwing up balance. One particular frame/"class" went from god-like (of which most other good frames are god-like, as the entire goal of Warframe is essentially one giant power trip, so a god-like frame is absolutely fine), to only good up until level 30-40 (for reference, endless missions generally get up to level 100-150). They're also guilty of "hiring" (they're really volunteers, not actual employees) chat moderators that are incredibly narcissistic, SJW-like, and aren't afraid of banning players from all chat rooms, including PM's, for merely saying something they personally disagree with.

But the issues of DE pale in comparison to the issues of Zenimax.

The game receives constant updates. Legitimately, every couple of days a small patch is pushed out. These updates are also very small, typically only tens of megabytes, the servers basically don't go down for any of them. To put it into perspective, DE was being DDOS'd a while back, which resulted in the servers going down for maybe an hour or two. Forums, Twitter and Reddit all exploded with complaints, for just one to two hours of downtime. We get 2-6 hours of downtime weekly.

Balance updates also happen very frequently, typically every few weeks to a month. Garuda, one of the newer frames, just saw a rework that improved two of her abilities, and there are additional reworks in the pipeline for Titania and Nyx, another two frames, which both reworks look pretty solid. Zenimax rolls out balance updates every 3 months, and they typically break balance, making the game less fun to play (this patch is honestly the least fun I've had in a very long time, and has caused me to stop playing because it is so bad), more often than they improve balance.

The biggest part, though, DE actually *** cares about their community. When the community dislikes something, more often than not, DE tries to improve it. When the community gives feedback on something, DE actively listens. When the community likes something, even though it isn't perfectly balanced, DE takes that into consideration when addressing it.

As an example, the old movement system Warframe used to use had a bug that allowed players to use their melee to "reset" their movement state while still moving, allowing them to chain things like running, sprinting, rolling, sliding, jumping, double jumping, and even aiming, firing, reloading, and using their melee, pretty much seamlessly. Rather than fixing the bug to the dismay of the community, DE attempted to integrate the bug into a new movement system, which officially allowed this same level of seamlessly chaining. The current movement system is the smoothest and most fun movement system I have ever experienced in a game. By far.

Could you see Zenimax doing this? Basically throwing out months, maybe years of their hard work, to please the community, and overall have the game be a more fluid and fun experience for everybody?

I am completely certain that it is the same with CCP. Maybe better, as I have seen how much CCP truly cares about their community. Zenimax needs to learn a level of humility if they want this game to grow. They need to get off their high horse, stop thinking they know best, and actually listen to what the community wants. The casual player base can only keep this game afloat for so long before they'll all move on to the next FOTM game. And with TES VI on the horizon, even with the Creation Engine ordeal, this may come a lot sooner than any of us have anticipated.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Zenimax needs to learn a level of humility if they want this game to grow.

But, but, but ... we're Elder Scrolls. We're beloved and players will overlook our warts and zits.

Zenimax is also a half-billion dollar a year company. Companies don't become financial behemoths by way of humility or customer focus. Oh, they might value (or give lip service) to those things as startups, but success invariably breeds the kind of greed that cares only about maximizing profit at the expense of quality control and minimal investment.

Banana wrote: »

Bring back the konkle

glad someone else is thinking this.....

ezio45 wrote: »

but they do come crashing down because of lack of humility... look at ea and bethesda and blizzard.... ignore your customers that made you and they will unmake you just a fast

You get that we're not arguing cross purpose, right?

Even so, please explain how customers brought down EA or Blizzard? (Bethesda is a division of ZOS). Neither EA or Blizzard has shown anything but increasing net profits over several years. Yes, they've had failed launches between them, which is apples and oranges in regard to this thread, but neither juggernaut has been crippled in the way you'd like to think.