Its bis for pve...
I use it

I think it's best for pve. I can't say for pvp tho.

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

Masel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

You can slot it on a stam dk in Pve, to boost your claw, makes sense if you use it as a spammable.

You can but to my knowledge, Whip scales solely on Spell Damage/Max Magic, making it a fairly mediocre spammable for StamDK. Making Molten Whip's effect part of the base skill and making Molten Whip a Stamina morph just makes more sense if it's intended to be used by StamDK at all, especially since the pay off is only ~100 extra weapon damage on Venomous Claws (not sure if it affects FoO since it scales differently, and Noxious Breathe is meh).

Idk, I still find it to be a skill lost in time, reminiscent of the days Weapon Damage also affected Staves. That doesn't make it a bad skill, just one that could really use an update. If nothing else, making it a Stamina Spammable might be enough to help StamDK out of its slump. Just a thought.

Renegade1O wrote: »

I'm not sure I've ever seen a build or heard anyone talking about the Molten Whip morph at all. Like ever. It's pretty pointless tbh. 70 extra spell damage for Ardent Flame abilities isn't appealing at all compared to the alternative Flame Lash morph that heals you and does more damage. Wouldn't it be better to just make this a stamina morph so Stam DK's can have a class spammable? What do my fellow DKs think about this?

Renegade1O wrote: »

I'm not sure I've ever seen a build or heard anyone talking about the Molten Whip morph at all. Like ever. It's pretty pointless tbh. 70 extra spell damage for Ardent Flame abilities isn't appealing at all compared to the alternative Flame Lash morph that heals you and does more damage. Wouldn't it be better to just make this a stamina morph so Stam DK's can have a class spammable? What do my fellow DKs think about this?

YEEESSSSSS PLEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEEE

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

You can slot it on a stam dk in Pve, to boost your claw, makes sense if you use it as a spammable.

You can but to my knowledge, Whip scales solely on Spell Damage/Max Magic, making it a fairly mediocre spammable for StamDK. Making Molten Whip's effect part of the base skill and making Molten Whip a Stamina morph just makes more sense if it's intended to be used by StamDK at all, especially since the pay off is only ~100 extra weapon damage on Venomous Claws (not sure if it affects FoO since it scales differently, and Noxious Breathe is meh).

Idk, I still find it to be a skill lost in time, reminiscent of the days Weapon Damage also affected Staves. That doesn't make it a bad skill, just one that could really use an update. If nothing else, making it a Stamina Spammable might be enough to help StamDK out of its slump. Just a thought.

I meant slotting it for the passive WD only... But you're better off slotting a fighters guild skill in that case

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

You can slot it on a stam dk in Pve, to boost your claw, makes sense if you use it as a spammable.

You can but to my knowledge, Whip scales solely on Spell Damage/Max Magic, making it a fairly mediocre spammable for StamDK. Making Molten Whip's effect part of the base skill and making Molten Whip a Stamina morph just makes more sense if it's intended to be used by StamDK at all, especially since the pay off is only ~100 extra weapon damage on Venomous Claws (not sure if it affects FoO since it scales differently, and Noxious Breathe is meh).

Idk, I still find it to be a skill lost in time, reminiscent of the days Weapon Damage also affected Staves. That doesn't make it a bad skill, just one that could really use an update. If nothing else, making it a Stamina Spammable might be enough to help StamDK out of its slump. Just a thought.

I meant slotting it for the passive WD only... But you're better off slotting a fighters guild skill in that case

For a fighter guild skill to give more weapon damage then whip, you would need to have 3367 base weapon damage. You do not have 3367 base weapon damage. Unless you mean the weapon damage only impacting claw/NB. Then you might have a point.

The fighters skill affects everything, yeah, that's what I mean. If whip would also affect everything or add more to these skills it might be worth it... But this way molten just doesn't do enough.

Since off balance nerf, power lash resource cost and absorb mag glyph changes there is no reason to slot power lash anymore.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

And leave magk dk with which spammable?
...the "non rewarding" pvp morph or ele weapon, which is kinda nonsense since the magdk is a Meele role, and moving the spammable to be ranged os crappy and whip hits harder anyways

No thx, i dont need the extra heal nor the small dmg boots, which procs way to few in pve to be worth it.

Change stonefist instead to a spammable pve stamskill with a pvp and a pve option seems to be the better way to go.

I would have thought that making the effect a part of the base morph would imply the effect would carry over to Flame Leash after morphing it.

Base Morph = Molten Whip's current effect
Flame Leash = Molten Whip + Current Effects
New Poison Whip = Molten Whip + Poison damage Stamina morph.

So, in reality, MagDK get both the current effects and StamDK get a decent spammable.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

And leave magk dk with which spammable?
...the "non rewarding" pvp morph or ele weapon, which is kinda nonsense since the magdk is a Meele role, and moving the spammable to be ranged os crappy and whip hits harder anyways

No thx, i dont need the extra heal nor the small dmg boots, which procs way to few in pve to be worth it.

Change stonefist instead to a spammable pve stamskill with a pvp and a pve option seems to be the better way to go.

I would have thought that making the effect a part of the base morph would imply the effect would carry over to Flame Leash after morphing it.

Base Morph = Molten Whip's current effect
Flame Leash = Molten Whip + Current Effects
New Poison Whip = Molten Whip + Poison damage Stamina morph.

So, in reality, MagDK get both the current effects and StamDK get a decent spammable.

Well making the basemorph with the 101 spelldmg is kinda nice, however IMO the skill will become overloaded with that.

I could support the change IF they finally rework the Warmth passive to something usefull.
Maybe add X weapon and spelldmg / ardentflame ability slotted while keeping the current passive (which is non existant anyways atm xD)

So having 3 ardent flame skills slotted on the bar will imcrease the tooltip of all skills, therefore synergize even better with fiery breath and firedmg % amps

"Overloaded" is subjective. We could look at most classes and see skills that are all arguably overloaded but realistically are fine as a whole (Ritual of Retribution for example has a 12m radius, a snare, damages enemies, has a HoT, purges negate effects and has a purge synergy for allies to use). You said it yourself, Flame Leash doesn't proc enough in PvE to be worth using so would making Molten Whip have the occasional heal + Damage proc of Flame Leash really be as overloaded as you think it would?

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

And leave magk dk with which spammable?
...the "non rewarding" pvp morph or ele weapon, which is kinda nonsense since the magdk is a Meele role, and moving the spammable to be ranged os crappy and whip hits harder anyways

No thx, i dont need the extra heal nor the small dmg boots, which procs way to few in pve to be worth it.

Change stonefist instead to a spammable pve stamskill with a pvp and a pve option seems to be the better way to go.

I would have thought that making the effect a part of the base morph would imply the effect would carry over to Flame Leash after morphing it.

Base Morph = Molten Whip's current effect
Flame Leash = Molten Whip + Current Effects
New Poison Whip = Molten Whip + Poison damage Stamina morph.

So, in reality, MagDK get both the current effects and StamDK get a decent spammable.

Well making the basemorph with the 101 spelldmg is kinda nice, however IMO the skill will become overloaded with that.

I could support the change IF they finally rework the Warmth passive to something usefull.
Maybe add X weapon and spelldmg / ardentflame ability slotted while keeping the current passive (which is non existant anyways atm xD)

So having 3 ardent flame skills slotted on the bar will imcrease the tooltip of all skills, therefore synergize even better with fiery breath and firedmg % amps

"Overloaded" is subjective. We could look at most classes and see skills that are all arguably overloaded but realistically are fine as a whole (Ritual of Retribution for example has a 12m radius, a snare, damages enemies, has a HoT, purges negate effects and has a purge synergy for allies to use). You said it yourself, Flame Leash doesn't proc enough in PvE to be worth using so would making Molten Whip have the occasional heal + Damage proc of Flame Leash really be as overloaded as you think it would?

Well ofc we could compare it with other skills, but thats IMO also not the right choice, since Ritual of Retribution (for example) is also overloaded as hell....but its not a Main Spammable, its more a support skill
Healing is bad (only ever 2 sec), DMG aint high, "Only" purges 2 Debuffs from the caster....only good thin is the synergy, and the combo of all effects together.

IF they change Lash to be able to Procc more often, then sure why not...but with the max of getting 2 Procs for each offbalance, on even that has to be timed perfectly to get them off, its just bad.
Tie the Proc to something else, maybe a new statuseffect or such, which has "better" uptimes, and maybe reduce the dmg of the proc a little and it might be ok for PVE and PVP.

As I said though, just because a skill is overloaded, that doesn't necessarily mean the skill is overpowered. You just listed everything wrong with RoR that keeps it in check from being OP. Flame Leash has a CD on its Proc for the same reason.

Then, we have to consider DK DPS as a whole. In PvP, admittedly MagDK is great for 1v1 and has a lot of group utility so it might be problematic to give them a huge buff there but in PvE, MagDK suffers because of its melee status, getting clumped up with Stamina build at end game, which leaves it in a very bad spot. A damage buff is exactly what it needs to be competitive in PvE content so while I'm hard pressed to give MagDK a PvP buff, it sort of needs it for PvE sake. StamDK is in a similar boat, except it doesn't excel in either PvE or PvP that it desperately needs a buff and giving them a Spammable that improves their other skills would be exactly what they need to help them be competitive as well. Overloading a skill isn't necessarily a bad thing if it helps to bring overall balance to the game. ZOS can tweak the numbers as they like if it's truly bothersome but I personally feel that having powerful class skills isn't a bad thing at all.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

And leave magk dk with which spammable?
...the "non rewarding" pvp morph or ele weapon, which is kinda nonsense since the magdk is a Meele role, and moving the spammable to be ranged os crappy and whip hits harder anyways

No thx, i dont need the extra heal nor the small dmg boots, which procs way to few in pve to be worth it.

Change stonefist instead to a spammable pve stamskill with a pvp and a pve option seems to be the better way to go.

I would have thought that making the effect a part of the base morph would imply the effect would carry over to Flame Leash after morphing it.

Base Morph = Molten Whip's current effect
Flame Leash = Molten Whip + Current Effects
New Poison Whip = Molten Whip + Poison damage Stamina morph.

So, in reality, MagDK get both the current effects and StamDK get a decent spammable.

they would still be unhappy with it cause having only 27 morphs out of 30 is not enough for them, which is why stamina DK will never get a third stamina morph.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I say this morph should be the base skill effect, and change the current morph to a Stamina whip.

It seems odd that this skill increase both Spell AND Weapon Damage but is a purely magic skill that wouldn't benefit from the weapon damage portion at all. Making it a base effect with morph options for both Magic and Stamina DK would at least make it so the effect isn't completely wasted.

And leave magk dk with which spammable?
...the "non rewarding" pvp morph or ele weapon, which is kinda nonsense since the magdk is a Meele role, and moving the spammable to be ranged os crappy and whip hits harder anyways

No thx, i dont need the extra heal nor the small dmg boots, which procs way to few in pve to be worth it.

Change stonefist instead to a spammable pve stamskill with a pvp and a pve option seems to be the better way to go.

I would have thought that making the effect a part of the base morph would imply the effect would carry over to Flame Leash after morphing it.

Base Morph = Molten Whip's current effect
Flame Leash = Molten Whip + Current Effects
New Poison Whip = Molten Whip + Poison damage Stamina morph.

So, in reality, MagDK get both the current effects and StamDK get a decent spammable.

Well making the basemorph with the 101 spelldmg is kinda nice, however IMO the skill will become overloaded with that.

I could support the change IF they finally rework the Warmth passive to something usefull.
Maybe add X weapon and spelldmg / ardentflame ability slotted while keeping the current passive (which is non existant anyways atm xD)

So having 3 ardent flame skills slotted on the bar will imcrease the tooltip of all skills, therefore synergize even better with fiery breath and firedmg % amps

Moving the extra spell damage to warmth makes most sense to me aswell, but I would make it bonus %flame and poison damage done per ardent flame abilities slotted. Considering both stam and magDk are weak on passives department that would bring them on par with other classes without increasing their tanykness, and what to do with molten whip in that case?

I don't know... stamina spammable? With new animations and stuff? I mean why not at that point?

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Moving the extra spell damage to warmth makes most sense to me aswell, but I would make it bonus %flame and poison damage done per ardent flame abilities slotted. Considering both stam and magDk are weak on passives department that would bring them on par with other classes without increasing their tanykness, and what to do with molten whip in that case?

I don't know... stamina spammable? With new animations and stuff? I mean why not at that point?

We already have a % Modifier on another passive in ardent flame, combined with the extra duration.
Maybe split this passive and put half of it to warmth and buff both parts.

If Im not mistaken its 3% Dmg and 2 seconds extra duration.

if they make it like 2% Fire and 3% Poison per ability slotted that would become like the warden passive (which still is stronger in that regard xD)

Duration should be increased to 3 seconds end effect ALL fire and poison based Sills (Skills only, not sets ect) , since the meta atm is direct dmg, this would bring up the window to get in one more spammable and one LA more into the Rotation.
Why increase the duration?....well DK has been the Dot monster No.1 in the past, and by increasing the Dots duration, it would add more time to play mechanics, and be not as punishing when you have to leave meele range in PVE, and gives longer pressure in PVP (maybe not needed in PVP but jeah)

Keep whip as it is, however if they decide to buff the passives, than we can talk about removeing whip -> remodel to stam morph.
If we get stronger passives I dont see the "need" for the 101 SD in a PVE perspective, yes its a nerf to that skill if you used it, and you are forced to remorph, but then its not a flat out loss in PVE for MagDk.
and Stam Dks want a class spammable for year now, it DK lacks stamina morphs anyways so its fine (if we get ompensation for it)

Animations could stay the same, just change the visual appearance to have similarities to nox breath for example.
Skill wise, Stamina whip would need a "bonus" like every skill gets when its morphed.
maybe make it similar to Lash (even basemorph maybe?)

Basemorph gives the OFF balance stuff ect.
Staminamorph -> DMG converted to Poisondmg, Adding X WD, reduced heal (stam dk has acces to vigor and rally already)
Magickamorph -> Firedmg, Adding X SD, keeping the actual heal (PVP MagDK rely heavily on it)

So stamina Morph deals Poisondmg and costs stam (happy stamdks) but has the drawback of less healing.
Magicka Morph stays same, but gets buffed towards DMG, due to more spelldmg for all ardent flame abilities

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Moving the extra spell damage to warmth makes most sense to me aswell, but I would make it bonus %flame and poison damage done per ardent flame abilities slotted. Considering both stam and magDk are weak on passives department that would bring them on par with other classes without increasing their tanykness, and what to do with molten whip in that case?

I don't know... stamina spammable? With new animations and stuff? I mean why not at that point?

We already have a % Modifier on another passive in ardent flame, combined with the extra duration.
Maybe split this passive and put half of it to warmth and buff both parts.

If Im not mistaken its 3% Dmg and 2 seconds extra duration.

if they make it like 2% Fire and 3% Poison per ability slotted that would become like the warden passive (which still is stronger in that regard xD)

Duration should be increased to 3 seconds end effect ALL fire and poison based Sills (Skills only, not sets ect) , since the meta atm is direct dmg, this would bring up the window to get in one more spammable and one LA more into the Rotation.
Why increase the duration?....well DK has been the Dot monster No.1 in the past, and by increasing the Dots duration, it would add more time to play mechanics, and be not as punishing when you have to leave meele range in PVE, and gives longer pressure in PVP (maybe not needed in PVP but jeah)

Keep whip as it is, however if they decide to buff the passives, than we can talk about removeing whip -> remodel to stam morph.
If we get stronger passives I dont see the "need" for the 101 SD in a PVE perspective, yes its a nerf to that skill if you used it, and you are forced to remorph, but then its not a flat out loss in PVE for MagDk.
and Stam Dks want a class spammable for year now, it DK lacks stamina morphs anyways so its fine (if we get ompensation for it)

Animations could stay the same, just change the visual appearance to have similarities to nox breath for example.
Skill wise, Stamina whip would need a "bonus" like every skill gets when its morphed.
maybe make it similar to Lash (even basemorph maybe?)

Basemorph gives the OFF balance stuff ect.
Staminamorph -> DMG converted to Poisondmg, Adding X WD, reduced heal (stam dk has acces to vigor and rally already)
Magickamorph -> Firedmg, Adding X SD, keeping the actual heal (PVP MagDK rely heavily on it)

So stamina Morph deals Poisondmg and costs stam (happy stamdks) but has the drawback of less healing.
Magicka Morph stays same, but gets buffed towards DMG, due to more spelldmg for all ardent flame abilities

There are many ways to give stamDk a new stamina morph(something the class desperately needs for a while now), but if it ever happens I would vote for making it something more unique and interesting instead of just green whip, as I want stamDk and magDk to be different from one another. Just like how stam and magblades have morphs that completely change the ability, stamina whip would need to not be a whip to make both sides happy in my opinion.

There are many ways to make both stam and magicka Dks happy, It doesn't even need to be a spammable in the case of stamDks, though it requires the devs to actually do something about this issue, and acknowledge the fact that this is definitely an issue, instead of playing their stamblades.

Well stonefist could also be changed, as I suggested already.
The thing is, that ppl keep comparing the classes to each other, therefore everything that aint similar is a "problem"
Stam Sorcs could actually spam the forum aswell, cause they ont have a class spammable either for stamina

The Ele Weapon skill from psijic skillline was supposed to bandaid the missing skills, but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB (just an example)
And for PVP its even worse in that regard, atleast for DK, Ele Weapon on 2h....dunno never tested it, but sounds horrible xD

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB

the first part you have a point but the damage difference between surprise attack and crushing weapon is ~7.6%, that is quite close when you consider that crushing heals you for 25%+ of the damage done.

Surprise attack will apply major fracture, costs lessStamina and can stun when used from stealth or sneak.
you gain 6sec of major armor buffs when using surp attack, + 3% max health for having it slotted

25% healing is nice, but not needed in PVE, else every NB would probably run crushing xD
you gain the 5k shield for blocking, plus the shooting orb from the passive.

about the dmg difference, thats pretty accurate, but its still 7-8%

Overall SA will outperform Crushing weapon atm.

But SA or crushing isnt actually the topic in this thread xD