Does ANYONE who plays a MagDk use Molten Whip?

Ragnarock41

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB

the first part you have a point but the damage difference between surprise attack and crushing weapon is ~7.6%, that is quite close when you consider that crushing heals you for 25%+ of the damage done.

Surprise attack will apply major fracture, costs lessStamina and can stun when used from stealth or sneak.
you gain 6sec of major armor buffs when using surp attack, + 3% max health for having it slotted

25% healing is nice, but not needed in PVE, else every NB would probably run crushing xD
you gain the 5k shield for blocking, plus the shooting orb from the passive.

about the dmg difference, thats pretty accurate, but its still 7-8%

Overall SA will outperform Crushing weapon atm.

But SA or crushing isnt actually the topic in this thread xD

Maybe if noxious breath wasn't just a ''poor man's sub assault'', I wouldn't feel so bad about not playing a stamblade in a stamblade dominated meta. Stamblade , on top of all its benefits, gets a perfect spammable and doesn't need to slot a dead skill just for major fracture. (noxious DPS is so bad that I've seen stamDK mains drop in from their PvE builds. And to think they actually nerfed this in murkmire is further insulting... way to go, whoever decided that was a sound decision.)

Now to think of it we wouldn't be asking for a stamina spammable if the poison dots did more than tickling people in PvP.

The state of stamDk and stamwarden is almost like the nord versus imperial back when imperial was top dog race. Its just pay to win on purpose. The suits are at work, and as long as warden is sold on the crown store I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Silver_Strider

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB

the first part you have a point but the damage difference between surprise attack and crushing weapon is ~7.6%, that is quite close when you consider that crushing heals you for 25%+ of the damage done.

Surprise attack will apply major fracture, costs lessStamina and can stun when used from stealth or sneak.
you gain 6sec of major armor buffs when using surp attack, + 3% max health for having it slotted

25% healing is nice, but not needed in PVE, else every NB would probably run crushing xD
you gain the 5k shield for blocking, plus the shooting orb from the passive.

about the dmg difference, thats pretty accurate, but its still 7-8%

Overall SA will outperform Crushing weapon atm.

But SA or crushing isnt actually the topic in this thread xD

Maybe if noxious breath wasn't just a ''poor man's sub assault'', I wouldn't feel so bad about not playing a stamblade in a stamblade dominated meta. Stamblade , on top of all its benefits, gets a perfect spammable and doesn't need to slot a dead skill just for major fracture. (noxious DPS is so bad that I've seen stamDK mains drop in from their PvE builds. And to think they actually nerfed this in murkmire is further insulting... way to go, whoever decided that was a sound decision.)

Now to think of it we wouldn't be asking for a stamina spammable if the poison dots did more than tickling people in PvP.

The state of stamDk and stamwarden is almost like the nord versus imperial back when imperial was top dog race. Its just pay to win on purpose. The suits are at work, and as long as warden is sold on the crown store I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Major Fracture is overrated on Surprise Attack on all but solo play and PvP. In PvE, tanks provide it that it could be flat out removed from Noxious Breathe entirely if it meant they buffed the tooltip by about 50% and gave it a worthwhile secondary effect, such as increasing the damage of poison skills on the affected enemies by 20% or something. At least then it would be useful for something.

Ragnarock41

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB

the first part you have a point but the damage difference between surprise attack and crushing weapon is ~7.6%, that is quite close when you consider that crushing heals you for 25%+ of the damage done.

Surprise attack will apply major fracture, costs lessStamina and can stun when used from stealth or sneak.
you gain 6sec of major armor buffs when using surp attack, + 3% max health for having it slotted

25% healing is nice, but not needed in PVE, else every NB would probably run crushing xD
you gain the 5k shield for blocking, plus the shooting orb from the passive.

about the dmg difference, thats pretty accurate, but its still 7-8%

Overall SA will outperform Crushing weapon atm.

But SA or crushing isnt actually the topic in this thread xD

Maybe if noxious breath wasn't just a ''poor man's sub assault'', I wouldn't feel so bad about not playing a stamblade in a stamblade dominated meta. Stamblade , on top of all its benefits, gets a perfect spammable and doesn't need to slot a dead skill just for major fracture. (noxious DPS is so bad that I've seen stamDK mains drop in from their PvE builds. And to think they actually nerfed this in murkmire is further insulting... way to go, whoever decided that was a sound decision.)

Now to think of it we wouldn't be asking for a stamina spammable if the poison dots did more than tickling people in PvP.

The state of stamDk and stamwarden is almost like the nord versus imperial back when imperial was top dog race. Its just pay to win on purpose. The suits are at work, and as long as warden is sold on the crown store I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Major Fracture is overrated on Surprise Attack on all but solo play and PvP. In PvE, tanks provide it that it could be flat out removed from Noxious Breathe entirely if it meant they buffed the tooltip by about 50% and gave it a worthwhile secondary effect, such as increasing the damage of poison skills on the affected enemies by 20% or something. At least then it would be useful for something.

PvP is a factor though. Do you know why stamblade is a god tier class in PvP?(for PvE they are well balanced and take skill to play imho) Its because it gets so many buffs and debuffs with so little effort. You don't have to slot a dead ability(noxious) for major fracture, also you don't have to slot a dead ability(spikes) for major resistances, thats already two free ability bars and a bunch of free sustain just for being a nightblade. How is this overrated again?

As for noxious breath , you could double the tooltip and it would still struggle against sub assault. Thanks zenimax , for all the love and care. %6 nerf to noxious tooltip... what have we done to deserve friggen wrobel out of all the people in the world...

Silver_Strider

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB

the first part you have a point but the damage difference between surprise attack and crushing weapon is ~7.6%, that is quite close when you consider that crushing heals you for 25%+ of the damage done.

Surprise attack will apply major fracture, costs lessStamina and can stun when used from stealth or sneak.
you gain 6sec of major armor buffs when using surp attack, + 3% max health for having it slotted

25% healing is nice, but not needed in PVE, else every NB would probably run crushing xD
you gain the 5k shield for blocking, plus the shooting orb from the passive.

about the dmg difference, thats pretty accurate, but its still 7-8%

Overall SA will outperform Crushing weapon atm.

But SA or crushing isnt actually the topic in this thread xD

Maybe if noxious breath wasn't just a ''poor man's sub assault'', I wouldn't feel so bad about not playing a stamblade in a stamblade dominated meta. Stamblade , on top of all its benefits, gets a perfect spammable and doesn't need to slot a dead skill just for major fracture. (noxious DPS is so bad that I've seen stamDK mains drop in from their PvE builds. And to think they actually nerfed this in murkmire is further insulting... way to go, whoever decided that was a sound decision.)

Now to think of it we wouldn't be asking for a stamina spammable if the poison dots did more than tickling people in PvP.

The state of stamDk and stamwarden is almost like the nord versus imperial back when imperial was top dog race. Its just pay to win on purpose. The suits are at work, and as long as warden is sold on the crown store I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Major Fracture is overrated on Surprise Attack on all but solo play and PvP. In PvE, tanks provide it that it could be flat out removed from Noxious Breathe entirely if it meant they buffed the tooltip by about 50% and gave it a worthwhile secondary effect, such as increasing the damage of poison skills on the affected enemies by 20% or something. At least then it would be useful for something.

PvP is a factor though. Do you know why stamblade is a god tier class in PvP?(for PvE they are well balanced and take skill to play imho) Its because it gets so many buffs and debuffs with so little effort. You don't have to slot a dead ability(noxious) for major fracture, also you don't have to slot a dead ability(spikes) for major resistances, thats already two free ability bars and a bunch of free sustain just for being a nightblade. How is this overrated again?

As for noxious breath , you could double the tooltip and it would still struggle against sub assault. Thanks zenimax , for all the love and care. %6 nerf to noxious tooltip... what have we done to deserve friggen wrobel out of all the people in the world...

Never said Surprise Attack was overrated, just Major Fracture on Surprise Attack. Honestly, I could write up a small list of suggestions for DK to help both Stamina and Magic build, its just that I didn't want to go off on a tangent from the Molten Whip discussion.

SaintSubwayy

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

but its just to clunky, and dmg wise not even close to Surprise attack from NB

the first part you have a point but the damage difference between surprise attack and crushing weapon is ~7.6%, that is quite close when you consider that crushing heals you for 25%+ of the damage done.

Surprise attack will apply major fracture, costs lessStamina and can stun when used from stealth or sneak.
you gain 6sec of major armor buffs when using surp attack, + 3% max health for having it slotted

25% healing is nice, but not needed in PVE, else every NB would probably run crushing xD
you gain the 5k shield for blocking, plus the shooting orb from the passive.

about the dmg difference, thats pretty accurate, but its still 7-8%

Overall SA will outperform Crushing weapon atm.

But SA or crushing isnt actually the topic in this thread xD

Maybe if noxious breath wasn't just a ''poor man's sub assault'', I wouldn't feel so bad about not playing a stamblade in a stamblade dominated meta. Stamblade , on top of all its benefits, gets a perfect spammable and doesn't need to slot a dead skill just for major fracture. (noxious DPS is so bad that I've seen stamDK mains drop in from their PvE builds. And to think they actually nerfed this in murkmire is further insulting... way to go, whoever decided that was a sound decision.)

Now to think of it we wouldn't be asking for a stamina spammable if the poison dots did more than tickling people in PvP.

The state of stamDk and stamwarden is almost like the nord versus imperial back when imperial was top dog race. Its just pay to win on purpose. The suits are at work, and as long as warden is sold on the crown store I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Major Fracture is overrated on Surprise Attack on all but solo play and PvP. In PvE, tanks provide it that it could be flat out removed from Noxious Breathe entirely if it meant they buffed the tooltip by about 50% and gave it a worthwhile secondary effect, such as increasing the damage of poison skills on the affected enemies by 20% or something. At least then it would be useful for something.

PvP is a factor though. Do you know why stamblade is a god tier class in PvP?(for PvE they are well balanced and take skill to play imho) Its because it gets so many buffs and debuffs with so little effort. You don't have to slot a dead ability(noxious) for major fracture, also you don't have to slot a dead ability(spikes) for major resistances, thats already two free ability bars and a bunch of free sustain just for being a nightblade. How is this overrated again?

As for noxious breath , you could double the tooltip and it would still struggle against sub assault. Thanks zenimax , for all the love and care. %6 nerf to noxious tooltip... what have we done to deserve friggen wrobel out of all the people in the world...

well the "problem" noxious has, is also a problem for engulfing, its also as hard to land as Nox is.
If we get major fracture, or 10% extra dmg dealt is pretty equal, but the Dot is just too weak for the difficulty it has to land.

IMHO they should change nox breath, by removing major fracture but add 10% poisondmg dealt, and increase the DOT dmg from Engulfing and Nox by about 15-20%

Hotdog_23

I believe the skill is bugged on PS4 because base tooltip damage and damage it does not match.

SaintSubwayy

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I believe the skill is bugged on PS4 because base tooltip damage and damage it does not match.

well the tooltipp damage and the dmg it deals can be different

the tooltip dmg only applies if you have reached the pen cap, and no other buffs and debuffs are affecting the enemy.
then it becomes like true dmg, but even the slightest change may cause it to change ( krits ect.)

Hotdog_23

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I believe the skill is bugged on PS4 because base tooltip damage and damage it does not match.

well the tooltipp damage and the dmg it deals can be different

the tooltip dmg only applies if you have reached the pen cap, and no other buffs and debuffs are affecting the enemy.
then it becomes like true dmg, but even the slightest change may cause it to change ( krits ect.)

Thanks I wasn't thinking about pen cap.

hedna123b14_ESO

Renegade1O wrote: »

I'm not sure I've ever seen a build or heard anyone talking about the Molten Whip morph at all. Like ever. It's pretty pointless tbh. 70 extra spell damage for Ardent Flame abilities isn't appealing at all compared to the alternative Flame Lash morph that heals you and does more damage. Wouldn't it be better to just make this a stamina morph so Stam DK's can have a class spammable? What do my fellow DKs think about this?

If you are a MagDk in PvE and play melee and you are not using Molten Whip, you are not maximizing your dps output...

Ender1310

Would make stam DK's feel more DK ish. I personally don't think it would be op to roll that ability up into the base morph (as another poster stated) and go one stam and one power lash + the 101 spell damage.

SaintSubwayy

Ender1310 wrote: »

Would make stam DK's feel more DK ish. I personally don't think it would be op to roll that ability up into the base morph (as another poster stated) and go one stam and one power lash + the 101 spell damage.

As I said before, IF they add the 101 Spelldmg to the basemorph, then yes.
Else it's a no from my side.

And they should change the 101 Spelldmg, to be counted to your overall SD, not just towards Ardentflame abilities.

Vildebill

I only use the stam whip morph

vesselwiththepestle

I never use noxious in pvp and rarely in pve. Soloing it's not worth it (questing/public dungeons the mobs drop too fast, world bosses I prefer to do on mdk or stamsorc rather than stam dk). In vMA I prefer Death Cloak. I guess I could drop rearming trap for noxious. Or I could just bother to wear NMG instead of BW.

However, this tread is about mDK. My mDK is a rather new character (I main StamDK) and I don't do trials or vet DLC dungeons with him, but mostly BGs and non DLC vet pledges . I tried Molten Whip, but I changed the morph to Flame Lash. I don't think the sd increase of molten whip is worth anything, it's just not enough. Additional damage and heal, even if very situational, is IMO far superior to a bit of SD increase on some skills. The SD increase just seems insignificant. But I have to note, I am the kind of guy who prefers Blood Craze over Rending Slashes, too. However, I run Silks of the Sun + BSW in pve and Silks of the Sun + Shackle in BGs, so I have already plenty of Spell Damage. I guess Molten Whip could be an interesting morph if you are running something like a crit and a sustain set, or Spinner's instead of a SD set, then you would be able to make more use of a bit more SD from Molten Whip.