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Can 1h/shield be good dps?
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Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »No, a 1H/S cannot be good PvE DPS.
It can be kinda-sorta-okay DPS for normal dungeons, overworld, etc., but it can't be good DPS.
You are more or less correct about armor (again, for PvE).
I like people that don't even test something and call it bad.
@Petoften
That was a dk in December of 2017. Add rele and you'll break 30k for sure. Dunno about others, but 30k self buffed (on an argonian lmao) is more than sufficient for anything that isn't a score run.
It's a very common theme here on these forums. No questions about what he planned on doing with this character, what class, nothing. Just nope, run what everyone else runs! I saw someone say bow/bow doesn't work a while back. You can't pull great numbers with it! Someone posts a vid showing that to be false and a vid still isn't enough, it's never enough for that crowd of gamers, it's cookie cutter meta or go home. Ugh.
You can light attack your way through most normal dungeons, but a 1hd/shield won't cut it? Who says he has to use ONLY 1hd skills? Dk's have tons of skills to cover up the lack of skills in the 1hd tree.
What's good dps? He isn't asking for a 40k setup. 20k should get his character through most non-vet. Is 20k not achievable with 1hd/snb? Time to nerf dw Zos, so tired of seeing the same set ups and skills firing off. Every stam character is the same ole same, dw/bow. Talk about homogenization of the classes and they seem to love it. Why even bother with different stam classes for Pete's sake.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway6 -
resdayn00✭✭✭If done correctly, you can run some normal dungeons with it, but by the time you reach veteran dungeons, you'll most likely understand why nobody uses 1h+shield as a dd. It's just not meant for dealing damage. As for armour goes, heavy is for tanking, medium is for stamina, light is for magicka.PC EU - Ebonheart Pact
Resdayn Indoril, Dunmer Magicka Nightblade - Main
Pactum Dunmeri | Ard Feainn | Aetherius Art | Kley Guild
Achievement points: 26k+1 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭Of course it can still do good dps, but it will just be worse than any other option since all shield passives are towards defence and utility, and the skill line lacks damage.0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »No, a 1H/S cannot be good PvE DPS.
It can be kinda-sorta-okay DPS for normal dungeons, overworld, etc., but it can't be good DPS.
You are more or less correct about armor (again, for PvE).
I like people that don't even test something and call it bad.
@Petoften
That was a dk in December of 2017. Add rele and you'll break 30k for sure. Dunno about others, but 30k self buffed (on an argonian lmao) is more than sufficient for anything that isn't a score run.
You have one s&b skill on that bar. And your back bar is probably bow with hail and caltrops? I wouldn't call this a good build since replacing that s&b with 2h/dw will only give you advantages and no drawbacks at all. This build is not "ok" because of s&b, it's "ok" despite it.
I was unaware the statement "can a sword and shield provide good dps" also required as evidence more than one sword and shield skill and to be somehow better than the meta setups.
I was under the impression the question was "can you pull good dps with a sword and shield."
The forums are always elucidating.
And the answer is still no. The DPS on that parse was not provided by sword and shield.
So to clarify, you interpret someone asking if a build utilizing sword and shield can pull good dps to require nothing but sword and shield skills?
Gunna have to disagree with the way you're looking at it then.
We will have to agree to disagree then. To me swordsman roleplay means getting a lot of your damage from said sword or at least with that sword in hand. Not dropping 3 actual hard hitting skills from a bow bar and using a set that gives you 7k DPS regardless, and then just switching to your sword for looks and a bit of tickling.
This is why I think that a bow/bow is a viable setup if you are into archer roleplay. The same can't be said about s&b.1 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even though heavy armor isn't good for PvE DPS, you can still have your outfit have heavy armor even if you're actually wearing light or medium armor.2 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭The short answer is: Yes you can achieve good DPS with sword/shield front bar and bow back bar, but you'll do better DPS with dual wield.
In group play, your spammable would be crushing weapon from Psijic skill line and in solo play use ransack as its much cheaper and does almost as much damage. You'll lose the bleeds and DoT from dual wield but you gain some max stamina from an infused shield with a max stam glyph.
Here's a Stam DK example (could maybe be better with Stamblade).
Front bar: venom claw, noxious breath, crushing weapon, rearming trap, silver leash (not used, just passive), flawless dawnbreaker
In solo play, replace crushing weapon with ransack.
Back bar: endless hail, razor caltrops, poison injection, rearming trap, flames of oblivion, standard of might
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess the choice between stam and majicka is a bit moot - I assumed stam is better for sword.
Sword abilities scale with stam and weapon damage. Technically you can run a mag build on stam weapons, but it's a bad idea for DPS.
I mean, I've got melee weapons in a bunch of mag sets for my tanks, but that is different.0 -
AlienatedGoat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Petoften
My suggestion would be to go 2H/bow. Recent changes have made 2H viable in PvE content even in endgame vet.
If the size of the 2H swords is what's holding you back, don't let it. You can pick any number of 2H outfit styles that are smaller and "normal-looking" swords. You don't have to use the giant swords if you don't want to.PC-NA Goat - Bleat Bleat Baaaa1 -
Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭You get another piece of divines armor and another full sized stamina enchantment on top of the 5% weapon damage bonus. Not as good as DW but not bad for classes that don't have to rely heavily on dual wield skills.
This would be interesting if there were actual applications that benefit standing in place and blocking versus frequently moving out of melee range for a while. It seems like a lot of avoidable mechanics are one shot on 18k health regardless of whether you block.1 -
Petoften✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »I was unaware the statement "can a sword and shield provide good dps" also required as evidence more than one sword and shield skill and to be somehow better than the meta setups.
I was under the impression the question was "can you pull good dps with a sword and shield."
The forums are always elucidating.
You interpreted the question correctly.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S&B will never provide a solid DPS build for PvE. In groups you will be noticed with concern and any group forming to do serious content will not let you bring that build into it as a DPS.
However, like many fun builds, it can be fun with solo content.
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Petoften✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »And as for me from RP reasons 2H sword is closer to 1H (idk look at geralt like obvious example) then S&B.
Ya, that's something I considered.
As I said, I already have a DW char and a 2h char, so I'd just be duplicating the 2h char (I even have a sword/shield, but he's more paladin than dps).
Right now it's seeming like the game doesn't much support this except for easier content, so that's what he'll do I guess.1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone made a video during the summerset pts of a bash dps build doing impressive numbers. It was pretty funny. I would dig it up but my connection is bad right now.
If I had to guess, that was probably during the PTS update when the Infused trait on Jewelry was bugged and stacking oddly. People got some really odd videos then.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭1h/shield can do ok damage on a tanky brawler IN PVP ONLY. Main advantage is major defile on reverb bash, which cuts healing by 30%. This is completly useless in pve.
In eso, most damage is attained by stacking DOTs, then spamming 1 ability while your dots finish ticking. Then you start over. 1h/shield, just like 2h, don't have any weapon dots, so that's why we almost never see them in pve dps build.
But, down the line, it comes down to what you want to do. Do you want to do only solo questing? 1h/shield will be perfectly ok, as you will be a little more tanky and moobs won't die nearly as fast, making questing more enjoyable (bosses die in 5 secs on my pve dps build. So easy it's boring). If you want to do group activities like dungeons, I strongly advise against 1h/shield.
Exactly this. I have various girls in heavy with 1H/S - because my lag means I need all the help I can get. Warden and Sorc do okay that way - because of the pets. The rest of them aren't so good right now, but they're the ones I don't play as much, so I'm not so good with their rotations.1 -
dem0n1k✭✭✭✭✭
✭My mostly PVE mDK uses a 1h+S front bar & inferno staff back bar & is undaunted level 9 & has completed all 4-man dungeons except a few of the newest DLC dungeons. Is he a "good" DPS? Does the job for me but no doubt others would disagree
I ran 1h+S coz the sword had a cool name XD
NA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.4 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My mostly PVE mDK uses a 1h+S front bar & inferno staff back bar & is undaunted level 9 & has completed all 4-man dungeons except a few of the newest DLC dungeons. Is he a "good" DPS? Does the job for me but no doubt others would disagree
I ran 1h+S coz the sword had a cool name XD
Oh YES! Very cool name! "Edgy".... um. Sorry.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Based on OP questions: **PvE**
I would *not* recommend S/Board DPS - yes someone posted some video, but you will be better suited going for a more stable and non funky setup.
Duelwield or 2HS
Bow
Medium armor
Make up with that as you will.Edited by karekiz on November 27, 2018 1:28AM1 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »And as for me from RP reasons 2H sword is closer to 1H (idk look at geralt like obvious example) then S&B.
Ya, that's something I considered.
As I said, I already have a DW char and a 2h char, so I'd just be duplicating the 2h char (I even have a sword/shield, but he's more paladin than dps).
Right now it's seeming like the game doesn't much support this except for easier content, so that's what he'll do I guess.
I don't even think they are reading your question as they keep suggesting builds you already have. Crazy.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Someone made a video during the summerset pts of a bash dps build doing impressive numbers. It was pretty funny. I would dig it up but my connection is bad right now.
If I had to guess, that was probably during the PTS update when the Infused trait on Jewelry was bugged and stacking oddly. People got some really odd videos then.
It was.0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »And as for me from RP reasons 2H sword is closer to 1H (idk look at geralt like obvious example) then S&B.
Ya, that's something I considered.
As I said, I already have a DW char and a 2h char, so I'd just be duplicating the 2h char (I even have a sword/shield, but he's more paladin than dps).
Right now it's seeming like the game doesn't much support this except for easier content, so that's what he'll do I guess.
The game supports it fine, my friend. It will be more work, and you will pull less damage than a dw or 2h build. The amount you can pull, however, is more than enough for most content.
For reference: vMoL (a vet trial) is largely considered to have a dps shutoff at 28k dps. That is, there are certain bosses (namely the first, but the twins and the end boss get progressively harder to maintain as long as they're up) that require that amount to pass the damage check.
In a raid, the above build I posted would be pulling between 35-40k. Add in some wiggle room, say you lose 5k dps observing mechanics. That's still 30-35, comfortably above the limit.
What matters here is if you are dedicated enough to practice this setup until you hit these kinds of numbers. You're the only one who can decide that.
Oh and if you're running normal dungeons or solo content, honestly sword and no off shield (what you wanted to do in the first place) would be more than viable with practice.
If you decide to try it and need help, PM me or @ me here. Happy hunting!7 -
RANKK7✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP, no, unfortunately. When I started playing this game my first character was a stamina Templar and, like you, I would have liked a setup with one sword or s/b but things doesn't work like that here and it's been quite a bad surprise for me tbh.
It's ZOS way.
lll
"I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
lll2 -
sekou_trayvond✭✭✭✭✭Can verify. I have a stamden that uses s+b for role play "character" reasons. He is perfectly capable killing overland content just fine in an efficient manner and is fine in normal dungeons( just remember to de-slot the taunt ) but, yeah, no way I'd take him into trials or whatnot.
That being said. Very easy and quick to alternate to a tank as need be.1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Several updates ago i had a 1H&S StamKnight dps wearing Hundings, Vipers, and Tremorscale back when both proc sets were instant damage. Charge + HA + Puncture + Viper proc + Tremor proc had great burst potential, and worked great in PvP as well. It was a lot of fun in Overland PvE. But then the nerfs came. Vipers became damage overtime, Tremor got a 1sec delay, and procs couldnt crit anymore. Took a lot out of the build.
But still there's no way it was successful end game dps and definitely not now.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To be completely fair, DW/Bow rotations also don't use a lot of DW skills. Rending slashes, yes, but aside from that... Maybe, in an odd case, flurry or blade as semi-AoE spammable, but the first is hard to sustain (and it's bugged) and second is niche. So the argument "but all those examples don't use anything from S&B skill line" looks a bit weak.
The biggest loss would be about DW passives. But if OP isn't gunning for the most possible damage, plans non-DLC dungeons and overland, I don't see why not.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »To be completely fair, DW/Bow rotations also don't use a lot of DW skills. Rending slashes, yes, but aside from that... Maybe, in an odd case, flurry or blade as semi-AoE spammable, but the first is hard to sustain (and it's bugged) and second is niche. So the argument "but all those examples don't use anything from S&B skill line" looks a bit weak.
The biggest loss would be about DW passives. But if OP isn't gunning for the most possible damage, plans non-DLC dungeons and overland, I don't see why not.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/441718/flurry-and-morphs-300-final-hit-not-scaling-correctly-from-percent-amps0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO , yup, I think that one. They might have at least fixed enchant proc (flurry used to ignore off hand enchant), but need to check, I didn't get around to after Murkmire landed.
But yes, in regular PvE DPS, most DW skills are situational or niche. It's mostly passives where it's at. And I fear that in dungeon pugs, not everyone will react in sane way to a damage dealer with sword and board.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭iirc it comes down to the DoT which has no replacement. DoTs are pretty strong in this game and since DPS comes down to damage per action it is often the more DoTs the merrier.0
