Can 1h/shield be good dps?

Khivas_Carrick

HalloweenWeed wrote: »

Swords, and all melee weapons, are short-range, meaning you need to be right in the fray to use them. This means you need to divert resources to health & defense, meaning resources that could've been allotted to increasing DPS instead. So the short answer is NO, you will not achieve as high DPS with any melee weapon. Toons with ranged weapons (staves & bow) will always outclass melee weapon toons in DPS. But for solo use this is irrelevant.

This hasn't been the truth since like the 70s D&D days bruh lol

Unrelated EDIT/Note:

ZoS should totally make new skill lines for 1H Only (Duelist) and a 1H/Shield Spartan style, for DPS lol Tell me you wouldn't enjoy yourselves if you could go full Leonidas on people XD

Lykanus

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

HalloweenWeed wrote: »

Swords, and all melee weapons, are short-range, meaning you need to be right in the fray to use them. This means you need to divert resources to health & defense, meaning resources that could've been allotted to increasing DPS instead. So the short answer is NO, you will not achieve as high DPS with any melee weapon. Toons with ranged weapons (staves & bow) will always outclass melee weapon toons in DPS. But for solo use this is irrelevant.

This hasn't been the truth since like the 70s D&D days bruh lol

Unrelated EDIT/Note:

ZoS should totally make new skill lines for 1H Only (Duelist) and a 1H/Shield Spartan style, for DPS lol Tell me you wouldn't enjoy yourselves if you could go full Leonidas on people XD

Even while currently Stamina DPS is better, a point many often forget still holds true: Many Stamina DPS Dummy parses are not even close to that in real combat. Some mechanics just keep you away or move (out of range) so you can OFTEN lower that parse by 5-10k easily. Ranged does lose less as they often just need to reposition, but then can start attacking right away again. Thats what many forget when stam dps parses are higher.

mocap

magplar
war maiden + soulshine + grothdarr = 25k+ dps just from Puncturing Sweeps alone. Though sustain will be super low.
soulshine: sword + shield + cuirass + two transmuted to Arcane rings.

nihirisutou

Ran into a Warden once that was all about how he had 40-50K dps on console.

And he was using Sword and Board.

But idk if this was a case of ego or whatever.

He didn't slow down my pledges so I didn't mind him.

dovakiin5574

I have tested 1h/s dps on the PTS and you will be capped at around 18-20k dps depending on class. This was with using Heroic Slash and the bash attack, DO NOT USE PUNCTURE. You're good for solo and even normal dungeons

nihirisutou

I am trying to suggest this in a very serious manner.

But try the outfit system maybe? Maybe there is a 2 sword style that isn't so big and will apply to your needs?

Still doesn't change a damn thing about dizzying swing being a terrible PvE spammable.

John_Falstaff

@dovakiin5574 , I got 33k earlier with double sword and board stamDK build and it's not the limit; sure 1H enchantment nerfs will take their toll, but I don't believe that can cap damage to 20k.

dovakiin5574

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@dovakiin5574 , I got 33k earlier with double sword and board stamDK build and it's not the limit; sure 1H enchantment nerfs will take their toll, but I don't believe that can cap damage to 20k.

This was on the current PTS cycle, nerfs and all

John_Falstaff

@dovakiin5574 , the only nerf was on enchantment's part, and DW already comes within 3k damage of old parses from live; single enchantment wouldn't make a difference of 13k DPS (or about 30%).

In fact, during that test I had back bar weapon damage glyph uptime of less than 50% because I just threw together a quick test with simple circular rotation (and no weapon DoT to proc it on front bar); so I essentially had half a glyph on the back. Better rotation with better uptime will compensate for that nerf.

RavenSworn

@DocFrost72 maybe you need to pull out that ol "you want it, I can build it" thread.

Anyone tried Stam full pet warden build? With selene, hundings and veiled heritance for starters? SnB with dual wield back bar?

I am sure, as long as you can pull 20k dps, you're good to go on any normal dungeons. Get better gear and pull 30k, you can even do the base vet dungeons.

Hit me up if you are in PC-NA, I'm more than happy to fiddle around with ya on your vet dungeon escapades.

ZonasArch

nihirisutou wrote: »

I am trying to suggest this in a very serious manner.

But try the outfit system maybe? Maybe there is a 2 sword style that isn't so big and will apply to your needs?

Still doesn't change a damn thing about dizzying swing being a terrible PvE spammable.

Isn't it better to spam that other one that does extra execute damage? High TT and no channeling? Works well for PvP but no idea for pve. Just thought about. I started in 2h merely 2 months ago, exactly cuz I don't PvP and was always told it sucks for pve, which it kinda does, kinda doesn't... On. stamDK, it has been working well for non end game content. I think I'll try changing the spammable.

witchdoctor

38.5K on a sorc, apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tKz7wXVZbk&t=595s

ZonasArch

witchdoctor wrote: »

38.5K on a sorc, apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tKz7wXVZbk&t=595s

If you can do half of that, you're good for anything that doesn't have "vet"on it, and even some vet stuff too. Good for RPers and people that stand in stupid way too much.

John_Falstaff

@witchdoctor , it's with bow backbar though, too easy to squeeze 40k+ from it - I think the challenge of double S&B build is more fun to tackle. ^^ But yes, with S&B / Bow it's even easier to get enough to clear basically everything as long as score runs aren't a concern.

Commancho

Sword and board are extremely powerfull in PVP on every kind of class, including magicka based! Good stamina s&b based build can reach nice <not meta> dps in PVE - 30-35k selfbuffed - which is sufficient for 95% of vet content and if you gonna use dw/bow <especially bow> I think that 40k dps would be possible to achieve

DocFrost72

RavenSworn wrote: »

@DocFrost72 maybe you need to pull out that ol "you want it, I can build it" thread.

If there's anything on the forums I actually regret, it would be not keeping that page updated and missing the last few people on it. My life's a bit too hectic for it right now. Then again, everytime it see something like-

dovakiin5574 wrote: »

I have tested 1h/s dps on the PTS and you will be capped at around 18-20k dps depending on class. This was with using Heroic Slash and the bash attack, DO NOT USE PUNCTURE. You're good for solo and even normal dungeons

It pushes me back to educating people...

TheGreatBlackBear

You can and should do whatever you want to when you are alone. When you are in any kind of group it might be wise to keep the shenanigans to a minimum. Not everyone has time or patience to indulge you. Sometimes you're on the last few minutes of your scroll and just want a quick no fuss clear. Sometimes you have ish to do and can't be bothered to accommodate that guy with a s&b who's not the tank.

StarOfElyon

Petoften wrote: »

I wanted to make a char good with a normal sword. That alone doesn't exist. Choices are things like big 2h swords, or dual wield, or the sword with a shield.

So I picked 1h with a shield, instead of a cookie cutter dual wield DPS.

Question is, can 1H/shield be good dps, or is it relegated to tanking?

And if so, what armor types are viable as dps? (It seems mostly light for magic, medium for dps, and heavy for tanking).

I play an Altmer magicka templar with sword and shield but I use mostly class skills like Purifying Light, Vampires Bane, and Puncturing Sweeps. I think I do okay in most of the content. I don't try to be the DPS for dungeons because I know it's not the META. But I'm playing the way I want to. My character is a Spellsword. A spell in one hand and a blade in the other. You can still put up a good fight without a destruction staff but you're going to need resistance and stamina, even as a magic build. If you're a stamina build, I think Stamplar would be even better with sword and shield.

If you're a magicka build, you could wear a heavy chest plate, medium legs, and the rest light armor.

John_Falstaff

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

You can and should do whatever you want to when you are alone. When you are in any kind of group it might be wise to keep the shenanigans to a minimum. Not everyone has time or patience to indulge you. Sometimes you're on the last few minutes of your scroll and just want a quick no fuss clear. Sometimes you have ish to do and can't be bothered to accommodate that guy with a s&b who's not the tank.

Everything's relative. If group gets S&B who does 40k+, then it's more than likely that, by kicking him, they will get a DW/Bow with 15k. And that group might still be in their dungeon by the time that S&B guy have cleared his own with another group, because let's call a spade a spade, he's far better DD than your average pug.

TheGreatBlackBear

John_Falstaff wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

You can and should do whatever you want to when you are alone. When you are in any kind of group it might be wise to keep the shenanigans to a minimum. Not everyone has time or patience to indulge you. Sometimes you're on the last few minutes of your scroll and just want a quick no fuss clear. Sometimes you have ish to do and can't be bothered to accommodate that guy with a s&b who's not the tank.

Everything's relative. If group gets S&B who does 40k+, then it's more than likely that, by kicking him, they will get a DW/Bow with 15k. And that group might still be in their dungeon by the time that S&B guy have cleared his own with another group, because let's call a spade a spade, he's far better DD than your average pug.

That's the thing. You're basing your assumption on the guy having 40k DPS with a s&b which he statistically won't have. Many players with optimal weapons, gear and classes struggle to break 25k so why would I expect some random guy with off gear to do so?

John_Falstaff

@TheGreatBlackBear , fact is, you don't expect anything from a pug. You just have to try running with them and seeing if they're good or not. Logic does not work here, or rather, you can make up any logic and it would be veritable - for instance, if I was forced to make assumptions, then I'd have assumed that a 810CP damage dealer with S&B may actually be good, because choice of such wildly off-meta setup might imply that he's testing the unorthodox build's limits and knows what he's doing. But it's just an example of possible assumption. Point in case, can't estimate a pug's performance by the gear they run, simply because the spread is so high and average so low.

sno_flah_ke

resdayn00 wrote: »

If done correctly, you can run some normal dungeons with it, but by the time you reach veteran dungeons, you'll most likely understand why nobody uses 1h+shield as a dd. It's just not meant for dealing damage. As for armour goes, heavy is for tanking, medium is for stamina, light is for magicka.

no... that's not strictly true. on the most basic level ok, but you can run 5 heavy set and 5 medium or 5 light for a second set or however you want to switch it up if you look at what each set does...

a reasonable example would be to run 5 embershield with 5 burning spell weave.... they play nicely off of each other and i think they would combine well for his intents.... pair it up with a monster set that does even more burning damage and you're all set... try the maw of inferno for example. with the right cp skill sets this can do some damage

TheGreatBlackBear

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@TheGreatBlackBear , fact is, you don't expect anything from a pug. You just have to try running with them and seeing if they're good or not. Logic does not work here, or rather, you can make up any logic and it would be veritable - for instance, if I was forced to make assumptions, then I'd have assumed that a 810CP damage dealer with S&B may actually be good, because choice of such wildly off-meta setup might imply that he's testing the unorthodox build's limits and knows what he's doing. But it's just an example of possible assumption. Point in case, can't estimate a pug's performance by the gear they run, simply because the spread is so high and average so low.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@TheGreatBlackBear , fact is, you don't expect anything from a pug. You just have to try running with them and seeing if they're good or not. Logic does not work here, or rather, you can make up any logic and it would be veritable - for instance, if I was forced to make assumptions, then I'd have assumed that a 810CP damage dealer with S&B may actually be good, because choice of such wildly off-meta setup might imply that he's testing the unorthodox build's limits and knows what he's doing. But it's just an example of possible assumption. Point in case, can't estimate a pug's performance by the gear they run, simply because the spread is so high and average so low.

If I expect nothing that moment I see someone who's not the tank with a sword and board I'm voting to kick.

DocFrost72

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@TheGreatBlackBear , fact is, you don't expect anything from a pug. You just have to try running with them and seeing if they're good or not. Logic does not work here, or rather, you can make up any logic and it would be veritable - for instance, if I was forced to make assumptions, then I'd have assumed that a 810CP damage dealer with S&B may actually be good, because choice of such wildly off-meta setup might imply that he's testing the unorthodox build's limits and knows what he's doing. But it's just an example of possible assumption. Point in case, can't estimate a pug's performance by the gear they run, simply because the spread is so high and average so low.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@TheGreatBlackBear , fact is, you don't expect anything from a pug. You just have to try running with them and seeing if they're good or not. Logic does not work here, or rather, you can make up any logic and it would be veritable - for instance, if I was forced to make assumptions, then I'd have assumed that a 810CP damage dealer with S&B may actually be good, because choice of such wildly off-meta setup might imply that he's testing the unorthodox build's limits and knows what he's doing. But it's just an example of possible assumption. Point in case, can't estimate a pug's performance by the gear they run, simply because the spread is so high and average so low.

If I expect nothing that moment I see someone who's not the tank with a sword and board I'm voting to kick.

I'm going to laugh when the vote fails because while you were voting, the dps was engaging the first trash pack and the healer/tank don't notice because the mobs died just as quick.

TheGreatBlackBear

The S&B DPS can wear whatever they want. It doesn't change the price of coffee. The reality is that by wearing a shield and sword you are making things harder for yourself and your teammates. If they're a good DD they'll still have less DPS than they would if they used dw or even 2h. If they're a bad DD they'll have still have less DPS. That's all well and good when you're alone but in a dungeon why wouldn't you do everything you could to ensure your team's survival?

Varana

Because in most dungeons these days, even vet hm for the base game, it's not about the team's survival but about maybe getting to the end marginally faster. That's not worth a kick. People can come in naked for all I care if we're clearing the dungeon at a steady pace and in a reasonable time. To be honest, I'm more annoyed at guys sprinting all the way through and pulling stuff right, left, and centre without regard for the rest of the group.

Wifeaggro13

Petoften wrote: »

I wanted to make a char good with a normal sword. That alone doesn't exist. Choices are things like big 2h swords, or dual wield, or the sword with a shield.

So I picked 1h with a shield, instead of a cookie cutter dual wield DPS.

Question is, can 1H/shield be good dps, or is it relegated to tanking?

And if so, what armor types are viable as dps? (It seems mostly light for magic, medium for dps, and heavy for tanking).

No

kylewwefan

https://youtu.be/KY9V4EA-X3o

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

kylewwefan wrote: »

https://youtu.be/KY9V4EA-X3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVFYPJW-aa8

IronWooshu

I came up with a build I used for sword and shield leveling that made me really damn tanky and could dish out damage.

Essentially I made 5 pc Twice-Born-Star in heavy and ran the lover and warrior mundas stones, for rings and weapons I ran spriggans. Use all divine traits on the armor pieces and you will end up with 6k+ pen and 400+ dmg before adding infused trait on the rings and running weapons damage which adds another 300+ dmg. Monster set is your own but you will be tanky and be able to solo most overland stuff.

I've solo'd all Deshaan WB's except the Guar and all Stonefalls, Glenumbra. I run dual weild on back bar for added damage.