SteelNado

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

The skill has its place. I get the impression that every other post on these forums has been written by a 1vXer or BGs player who's upset he got overwhelmed while fighting outnumbered.

that is exactly what is happening.

It’s less about being overwhelmed Xv1 and more about encouraging a playstyle that allows some to sit in complete safety and deliver one of the strongest hits in the game with the most deadly effects attached to it (major defile, stun). And in BGs it’s often 2 or sometimes more people per team playing this way. The range of the ability and the size of BGs arenas makes it effective to the point of barely having to play at all. And it’s frustrating to be on the receiving end but it’s also crap to play with a team with two bow stealthers, who just sit in the shadows and pick off kills. And often they’re so unskilled, and so risk adverse that they often contribute nothing to the match. In Cyrodiil it’s not quite as much of an issue. And to be fair 1vXers and small scale players probably have the best handle on what’s under and over performing as they play in a situation where all the numbers matter. To a Zerg or people who just wait to pick off low health targets from stealth, it doesn’t really matter.

Snipe is only broken due to the safety cloak offers. I personally love dunking snipetards however %99 of them are nightblades that can just cloak spam to avoid reflected snipes hitting them or getting targeted by a gapcloser.

So in a nutshell , nerf cloak in a way it can't be spammed and snipetards will mostly disappear cause most of them have no clue how to actually play this game and rely on cloak to survive, similar to some of the old shieldstackers.

Stigant wrote: »

Why is Steel tornado strong?
Because it's undodgeable big radius PBAoE execute ability that gains a little more damage from DW passive against low HP targets and another extra damage bonus against CCed targets. That's why DBoS->Tornado is so great combo.

Why is/feels Steel tornado weak?
Because you don't use it properly
As @Ragnarock41 pointed out

Just something to take under consideration.

One of the other reasons as to why this thing is popular is that the current stamina meta is all about bleeds and enchants instead of spammables, so that gives people the sustain to spam ST all day. Cause bleed procs are literally free and rending doesnt cost a lot either.

Purdomination33 · November 2018

Steel Tornado also has a 365 degree radius, a smooth animation making it easy to use the skill multiple times in a row. Take a look at the Dragonsbreath animation vs Steel Tornado. I am not calling for a nerf. But I use this skill as an example; all the changes ZOS has made over the past years have led us to this. An AOE execute which can be stacked with poisons and procs making it insanely effective in group play. No timing a burst combo required.

Just think of that Pulse skill from Destro Staff had the same damage and execute. Can you imagine a MagDK with talons, Grothdar and spamming pulse over and over and over? Not fun.

Purdomination33 · November 2018

Oh and I forgot it cannot be dodged...just for funsies I guess.

erlewine · November 2018

It's just a reaction to the way the game is designed. Because of the importance of dodge roll immunity and relatively wonky targetting system in this game, a skill that bypasses both of those flaws is gonna be pretty useful.

Ramber · November 2018

For years sorcs had their shield stacking... spamming... spamming.... spamming... lol now everyone is in a tizz that stam has one. well deal with it whiners. fine a way to beat it, i call mine dodge roll.

Joy_Division · November 2018

Purdomination33 wrote: »

My original statement has yet to be refuted I see. My original post did not mention skill, effectiveness or winning. Merely pointed out I consider Steelnado an example of ESO going towards the lowest common denominator which is an easy to use, highly effective one size fits all type approach. Using one skill which then procs numerous other "things that take away HP".

How is ESO "going" towards the lowest common denominator when this skill has existed in its current form since launch? It was always there - in fact it used to be better. Could it be - shocking - ESO has always been a game of easy to use highly effective one size fits all type approach? Or is your idea of complex gameplay a high damage + stunning skill like Crystal Frags that can also proc an execute? Or how about an undodgeable max range "Jesus Beam" execute that was once so effective it was used in virtually every situation? Defense was really high denominator stuff back in the day: just duct-tape down the right mouse key because of how cheap it was to block everything.

What do you expect?

ZOS can hire the most creative balancing geniuses to re-design every skill in the game, there are still going to be those which 1) are better and 2) are more versatile. So those are always going to get used by people who care about winning. If it's not steel tornado, it will be something else. And because the game only allows me to slot 10 skills, all of them have to be either multi-purpose or really good or else I'm going to find myself in a lot of fights with not enough skills that are worth using. So when I duel wield, I am always going to use bleeds and spin to win because just about everything else got so nerfed it's pretty much the only way you can kill someone who knows what their doing.

SHADOW2KK · November 2018

Spin to win was nerfed btw OP, due to people like yourself whining I would imagine.

@Joy_Division pretty much said everything else I was gonna say also.

Thogard · November 2018

I’m OK with a cost increase for steel tornado.

It needs to retain its primary function as an execute that can hit a dodgerolling target.

But it needs to lose its ability to act as a spamable for the DW weapon line.

Best way to do that is to increase its cost.

Another option would be to decrease the base dmg and increase the execute bonus dmg.

Aztlan · November 2018

You know what, I'm okay with it staying exactly as it is. It's already been nerfed once, and it's already too expensive and weak to use as a spammable.

Lord_Eomer · November 2018

This skill is run by almost all stam players in BG right now,

Definitely this skill is over-performing others.

Purdomination33 · November 2018

Again, not calling for a nerf. I have a couple stam characters who utilize the skill.

You guys tell me, what has changed in order to make Steel Tornado so viable again? It has in fact been around forever but not used a whole lot for the oast year or so. Suddenly it's everywhere.

Also, I love people who chime in assuming someone must run only Magicka class characters because a comment was made on a Stamina skill. Personally I take pride in being able to switch between a StamDK, a MagSorc, a Stamblade and a MagDK without missing a beat.

There is just somethint simplistic about spamming steel tornado, the skill has always received its share of criticism.

VaranisArano · November 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

This skill is run by almost all stam players in BG right now,

Definitely this skill is over-performing others.

ZOS nerfs 2hander speed and introduces targeting issues with some of its skills landing.

BG stam players swap en masse to DW and its AOE execute.

Spin to win has always been a thing in BGs. If everyone is using it, its because it's the last skill standing in the Hunger Nerf Games right now.

Stigant · November 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Purdomination33 wrote: »

My original statement has yet to be refuted I see. My original post did not mention skill, effectiveness or winning. Merely pointed out I consider Steelnado an example of ESO going towards the lowest common denominator which is an easy to use, highly effective one size fits all type approach. Using one skill which then procs numerous other "things that take away HP".

How is ESO "going" towards the lowest common denominator when this skill has existed in its current form since launch? It was always there - in fact it used to be better. Could it be - shocking - ESO has always been a game of easy to use highly effective one size fits all type approach? Or is your idea of complex gameplay a high damage + stunning skill like Crystal Frags that can also proc an execute? Or how about an undodgeable max range "Jesus Beam" execute that was once so effective it was used in virtually every situation? Defense was really high denominator stuff back in the day: just duct-tape down the right mouse key because of how cheap it was to block everything.

What do you expect?

ZOS can hire the most creative balancing geniuses to re-design every skill in the game, there are still going to be those which 1) are better and 2) are more versatile. So those are always going to get used by people who care about winning. If it's not steel tornado, it will be something else. And because the game only allows me to slot 10 skills, all of them have to be either multi-purpose or really good or else I'm going to find myself in a lot of fights with not enough skills that are worth using. So when I duel wield, I am always going to use bleeds and spin to win because just about everything else got so nerfed it's pretty much the only way you can kill someone who knows what their doing.

yes tornado has been this way since the release of this game, it was always strong, always dipping into Slaughter and Ruffian passives, benefiting from them the most out of all DW skills due to its execute scaling starting at 99% of HP on recieving end. That's why its range has been lowered. But with changes to other AoEs and due to the changes to AoEs that made this skill undodgeable, I feel its actually even stronger now, even with the lowered range, than it was originally.

Thogard wrote: »

I’m OK with a cost increase for steel tornado.

It needs to retain its primary function as an execute that can hit a dodgerolling target.

But it needs to lose its ability to act as a spamable for the DW weapon line.

Best way to do that is to increase its cost.

Another option would be to decrease the base dmg and increase the execute bonus dmg.

I agree ... this would be one of good ways to adjust the skill to balance its strenght somewhat.
What about the other morph thought? most people don't even know it exists in the game, because compared to ST its ridiculously weak, PvP wise as well as PvE wise.

Joy_Division · November 2018

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Again, not calling for a nerf. I have a couple stam characters who utilize the skill.

You guys tell me, what has changed in order to make Steel Tornado so viable again? It has in fact been around forever but not used a whole lot for the oast year or so. Suddenly it's everywhere.

Also, I love people who chime in assuming someone must run only Magicka class characters because a comment was made on a Stamina skill. Personally I take pride in being able to switch between a StamDK, a MagSorc, a Stamblade and a MagDK without missing a beat.

There is just somethint simplistic about spamming steel tornado, the skill has always received its share of criticism.

It was always useful and used.

It is used more now because so many other skills got nerfed because of complaints that they were too overpowered or simplistic. Take a guess how many of those people who used to play magwarden and have zero interest in running a frost tank have either race changed or turned it into a crafter and are now steel tornadoing.

BuddyAces · November 2018

One of the funniest pve skills. Leave it alone

Lord_Eomer · November 2018

BuddyAces wrote: »

One of the funniest pve skills. Leave it alone

This funniest pve skills got huge fans in PVP and got reputation "Spin2Win"

BuddyAces · November 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

One of the funniest pve skills. Leave it alone

This funniest pve skills got huge fans in PVP and got reputation "Spin2Win"

I know it's reputation. I die to it a lot. But as I've said a million other times, if you're that low on health, just about any skill is going to finish you off. Stop getting that low on health.

kaithuzar · November 2018

NO AOE should be considered an execute.
Why was this exception ever made?

VaranisArano · November 2018

kaithuzar wrote: »

NO AOE should be considered an execute.
Why was this exception ever made?

Because of the way Dual Wield passives work, this skill and Blade Cloak are both AOE executes. On a Sorc, any lightning or physical damage AOE can proc Implosion, which is also an execute.

Its not like this is the only AOE skill that can function like an execute...

Joosef_Kivikilpi · November 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

NO AOE should be considered an execute.
Why was this exception ever made?

Because of the way Dual Wield passives work, this skill and Blade Cloak are both AOE executes. On a Sorc, any lightning or physical damage AOE can proc Implosion, which is also an execute.

Its not like this is the only AOE skill that can function like an execute...

Reverse Slice, Steel Tornado.... and that is all I can think of excluding any ability from Sorcerers because they have a passive, powerful execute (... which seriously makes me wonder why Nightblades don't have a passive execute since they're an assassin class). Which other AOE executes are there?

Royaji · November 2018

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

NO AOE should be considered an execute.
Why was this exception ever made?

Because of the way Dual Wield passives work, this skill and Blade Cloak are both AOE executes. On a Sorc, any lightning or physical damage AOE can proc Implosion, which is also an execute.

Its not like this is the only AOE skill that can function like an execute...

Reverse Slice, Steel Tornado.... and that is all I can think of excluding any ability from Sorcerers because they have a passive, powerful execute (... which seriously makes me wonder why Nightblades don't have a passive execute since they're an assassin class). Which other AOE executes are there?

Mage's Fury and Mage's Wrath are both AoE too. And this leaves us with half of active executes - Reverse Slice, Steel Tornado and Mage's Fury being an AoE and the other half - Assassin's Blade, Radiant Destruction and Feral Guardian being single target.

Looks like we have quite a bit of AoE executes...

Gaggin · November 2018

Steel hssnt 'always been this way' it got buffed a few patches back when they made it undodgeable. It took people a few pathes to figure out how stupid easy it is.

Koolio · November 2018

Gaggin wrote: »

Steel hssnt 'always been this way' it got buffed a few patches back when they made it undodgeable. It took people a few pathes to figure out how stupid easy it is.

It was supposed to be undodgeable like EVERY other Aoe in the game. It never got updated during dark brotherhood when that was determined. It was left dodgeable for 1.5 years. We brought the attention how this move was “broken” due to consistencies.

So the move was broken and is now “fixed”