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Things that ZOS can actually do to prevent fake tanks/healers/DDs in the dungeon finder
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is great to think of ideas, but it is also wise to think about what Zos would consider and how to sell them on it.
The idea presented, besides being far to involved for a mere normal dungeon, which is where all this starts, it also puts Zos into a position of clearly telling players they are not good enough. It has Zos telling players they failed and that is a bad idea for a game designer.
If you want to run with players who are pre-judged form your own group. You can even go with a decent PvE guild since many have ranks based on a players proven ability, but asking Zos do to this for you is just a pipe dream.
Further, the only thing Zos can actually do to prevent fake tanks/healers is to require having a taunt or heal unlocked.
The best thing you can do when faced with a fake tank or fake healer is to kick them from the group. If the rest of the group does not oblige then at least you did what you could. If players started doing this it would go a long way to get rid of fake tanks since they would get tired of not getting their dungeons done after being kicked from group after group.
I don't think it's "too involved". It could easily be a part of the quest that introduces you to pledges, and you'd also get a rundown of what role does what, and how dungeons and the proving grounds are related. That way you'd earn the key you get for that quest.
As for telling players they aren't good enough... Isn't that exactly the same as when they can't complete a dungeon after wiping over and over for hours? If anything, this would be a helpful indicator of your progress, and give confidence to those that do get a green light for certain dungeons.
And you're wrong about what ZOS can do. You're looking for an absolute solution, but creating an environment where there is less incentive to queue as a fake would do wonders too. And yeah, getting kicked is part of it, which would happen a lot more if you sign up for a regular qualified group and get a fake instead.
First, it would not provide helpful feedback. It would merely state you failed or passed to achieve whatever requirement was attempted.
So yes, it would be Zos telling players they such at DPS or whatever.
Second, yes, it is involved. Heck, for tank you are requiring much more than what is required to tank many 4 man dungeons, which is a great example of why these ideas are not good.
Specifically, debuffing is not a requirement for tanking any 4 man dungeon (neither is buffing players). So you are setting a bar higher than is required for someone to be able to tank.
I am not wrong about what Zos can do. Yes, they can do a lot stuff that will not solve the issue, but since but since a taunt is all that is needed to be a tank that is all that is required.
Heck, and for DPS, what would be required there, 4k dps? Normal dungeons can be cleared with less than that per DPS which means the bad DPS issue that keeps most good tanks out of the GF would not change. Heck, I think I have tanked in normal dungeon when the DPS contributing that much and we still cleared, but it is runs like that where I decided I had enough.
If you want requirements as you state find a decent guild that screens players, or at least form your own group.Edited by idk on November 22, 2018 7:56AM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You didn't address the speed issue at all anywhere in the thread other than to say it was addressed in other threads.
Dude, I'm literally saying it AGAIN in the post you're quoting. Seriously, if you're not going to read what I'm saying, I'm not going to read your stuff. I'll just quote what I already said in regards to queue and completion speed in this thread:@temjiu
The "segregation" that you don't like will make sure that the existing tanks actually want to queue as tanks rather than switch to a DD. (...) Helping bad DDs helps bring good tanks back to the RDF (...)A lot of *real* tanks queue as DDs because the DDs they end up with are bad. This would make sure that does not happen. So the tanks that are present will actually have no reason (besides their mood) to not go in.
Furthermore, the new tanks would no longer have to be afraid of bad performance because they can test their build in the proving grounds, and get a score and see where they would be doing fine. (...)The reason that tanks especially pop immediately is because there is a significant shortage of tanks in the game, healers is a bit better, but still dps outpaces them by an exponential amount.
There would be more tanks in the queue if there wasn't a ton of really bad DDs in there too. The bad DDs are the reason why tanks don't queue for randoms. This system would solve it by allowing qualified tanks to just say that they will only run with qualified DDs.And they would complete it a lot faster if they didn't get kicked because of queuing as a fake with qualified people. The very reason for going as a fake is to make things faster, my proposal does exactly that by making sure you get good enough players in your group (if you opt for it).
If you're still going to say I didn't address the speed, I'll just assume you're trolling.
I know what you are saying and I am responding that what you are saying is wrong in a number of areas. It will not speed anything up at all. In fact for some it will make the queue take longer. I don't know of any tanks that queue as DPS. I have never seen anyone complain that a tank joined their group as a DPS. That makes zero sense. They are afraid of bad DPS so they spend longer in a queue so they will be the bad DPS? A lot longer in the queue. A tank is in a group in just a few seconds most the time. DPS can sit there for half an hour or more. The problem with getting bad DPS is a whole different issue. A lot of the bad DPS are players that either did the dolman grind or got carried in Sky Reach. They aren't tanks or healers coming in as DPS. They are actually DPS that hasn't learned how to DPS yet. Your idea doesn't get rid of bad DPS at all.
Tanks are going to queue as tanks. If your idea were put in place I am sure some would queue wanting a proven group. Some would go the other route. So you are dividing an already limited number of tanks into two separate queues. One of those queues is going to have longer queue times for DPS because there is less tanks joining the queue with them.
The thing is fake tanks would continue to queue as fake tanks. Guess which queue the fake tanks are most likely to join. You would think it would be the one where they don't have to pass a test but you would think wrong. They want a fast queue and a fast run. Fast queue is go in as a tank. Nothing in your idea changes that. Tanks will simply because there are less in the game are going to get a faster queue. If they go the route where they have to pass a test they can be sure they get an easy dungeon even though they select random simply by only doing well enough on the test to do the easiest dungeon. Your idea removes random from the random daily. ZoS wants us doing as many dungeons as possible. That is why there is a random daily to begin with. Your idea takes that away.
The reason fewer people tank in this game is because it is a fairly limited role to play. World bosses used to need a tank for some of them. For the most part they don't. Doing quests is easier on a DPS even if it is a bad DPS compared to doing it on a tank. Farming materials you don't want a tank.
Trials and dungeons are about it for a tank in PvE so most people simply do not take the time to level a tank. This is especially true of a players first character. I have two tanks out of my 15 characters because my guild was having a hard time finding tanks for our events. Had nothing to do with bad DPS and everything to do with nobody was a tank.
Your idea gives us the added bonus of more often that not sticking bad DPS with a bad/fake tank and bad/fake healer. So you end up with players not learning mechanics rotations or any of that, not advancing and getting frustrated with the whole idea of doing dungeons. That isn't good for the game.
Your idea doesn't fix the problem of fake rolls. What it does do is divide players with an arbitrary skill test, potentially locks players out of content, takes away the random aspect of the random daily and gives yet another way for the elites to exclude players from activities. We all know if this test were in place guilds would begin demanding certain levels of success before you get to join the trial group just like they do with the training dummies.
Even if your idea did fix the problem of fake tanks and healers it creates so many other problems it wouldn't be worth implementing.
I'm not trolling. I genuinely disagree with you and don't think your idea speeds the grouping up at all. In fact I think for many it will do the opposite.
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@ZeroXFF
I think were still at an impasse. You believe that tanks don't queue because of bad DPS, and they form the bulk of they players that would tank. I believe that most players don't play tanks due to perceived pressure and being in the "spotlight". Your position comes from the perspective of someone who tanks regularly in the game (and seems to like it from the sound of it...your still doing it?), My perspective comes from someone who plays whatever role is needed, and quite often just plays what I want.
OP is correct that a majority of skilled tanks choose to not queue via GF because of very low DPS as well as healers. Myself and some other experienced players like to queue up for randoms to help others, but we tend to queue as a healer (or as a DPS with a support person already in our group since we can do good dps while also healing. We tend to pull more than both DPS combined.
I also queue with a 3 player group, even for vet dungeons. Sometimes find a decent player in those groups. But have also told the group (voice comms) to not rez the pug if they were dying a lot and their dps was not so good. They get their clear still.1 -
chaoseater99✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »As always, the absolute easiest solution and the least amount of work for ZOS is for players to just use the dungeon finder as a last resort instead of the first one. Guilds, friends, zone, etc and queue up to fill in the gaps. It's not what people want. We all seem to want to just press a button and be instantly sent to our content, but the mechanics of the game keep that from being quite so simple when you have a large difficulty disparity in random dungeons as well as a massive gap in player skill level.
This i think is a good point. Why not just dive into the social aspects of the game?! Its an MMO after all. Form a group with randoms by interacting instead of pressing a button to do it takes a lot of time but is more fun.
Edit: typoEdited by chaoseater99 on November 22, 2018 10:38AM0 -
Sparr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭If it wasn't possible to do a dungeon with a fake tank or fake healer people wouldn't queue as them as it would just waste time, but as it stands only the newest DLC dungeons require one or both of those roles.@Sparr0w so I get the notification
Xbox (EU) - l Sparrow x | CP 810+DD: All Mag + StamPC (EU) - Sparrxw | CP 810+
Heal: Templar | Sorc | NB | Warden | Necro
Tank: NB | DK | Warden
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GHDD: All Mag + Stam
Heal: Templar | Sorc
Tank: DK | NB
Completions: All HM's + TTT + IR + GH + GS1 -
FlyingSwan✭✭✭✭✭If it wasn't possible to do a dungeon with a fake tank or fake healer people wouldn't queue as them as it would just waste time, but as it stands only the newest DLC dungeons require one or both of those roles.
True, I have a 'proper' vet trials tank, but as a max CP char I can tank all vet dungeons with a hybrid tank char that's originally designed for DPS, wearing medium armour with a S&B bar and a DW bar, and also compensate for what is usually one or two weak DPS in my team, plus self heal and always retain all aggro.
If a vet DLC dungeon pops when this char queues for random, then I simply change loadout to heavy tank sets, both taunts and dual S&B if the group DPS is high enough. This char can off-tank vet trials but won't survive main tanking in vet trials, so I have 'proper' focused tank for that job.
One of the reasons there are so few tanks in the game is unless you are doing vet trials, you don't really need a 'proper' tank, and a focused tank build is of couse crap for leveling, questing etc., so you get 'fake tanks', some of which may actually be good enough, some of which may be abysmal.Edited by FlyingSwan on November 22, 2018 11:53AM0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭just make dungeon gear bind on equip....
people who are 4 dps'ing a dungeon arnt there because they want to do a dungeon. there there for gear.
it will 1) cut down the amount of people who are actually dps in q (making shorter q's for dps) 2) if you are doing dungeons still you obviously want to do dungeons and not burn thru it, the shorter q's for dps then there is no need to q as a fake anything1 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭It is great to think of ideas, but it is also wise to think about what Zos would consider and how to sell them on it.
The idea presented, besides being far to involved for a mere normal dungeon, which is where all this starts, it also puts Zos into a position of clearly telling players they are not good enough. It has Zos telling players they failed and that is a bad idea for a game designer.
If you want to run with players who are pre-judged form your own group. You can even go with a decent PvE guild since many have ranks based on a players proven ability, but asking Zos do to this for you is just a pipe dream.
Further, the only thing Zos can actually do to prevent fake tanks/healers is to require having a taunt or heal unlocked.
The best thing you can do when faced with a fake tank or fake healer is to kick them from the group. If the rest of the group does not oblige then at least you did what you could. If players started doing this it would go a long way to get rid of fake tanks since they would get tired of not getting their dungeons done after being kicked from group after group.
I don't think it's "too involved". It could easily be a part of the quest that introduces you to pledges, and you'd also get a rundown of what role does what, and how dungeons and the proving grounds are related. That way you'd earn the key you get for that quest.
As for telling players they aren't good enough... Isn't that exactly the same as when they can't complete a dungeon after wiping over and over for hours? If anything, this would be a helpful indicator of your progress, and give confidence to those that do get a green light for certain dungeons.
And you're wrong about what ZOS can do. You're looking for an absolute solution, but creating an environment where there is less incentive to queue as a fake would do wonders too. And yeah, getting kicked is part of it, which would happen a lot more if you sign up for a regular qualified group and get a fake instead.
First, it would not provide helpful feedback. It would merely state you failed or passed to achieve whatever requirement was attempted.
So yes, it would be Zos telling players they such at DPS or whatever.
Second, yes, it is involved. Heck, for tank you are requiring much more than what is required to tank many 4 man dungeons, which is a great example of why these ideas are not good.
Specifically, debuffing is not a requirement for tanking any 4 man dungeon (neither is buffing players). So you are setting a bar higher than is required for someone to be able to tank.
I am not wrong about what Zos can do. Yes, they can do a lot stuff that will not solve the issue, but since but since a taunt is all that is needed to be a tank that is all that is required.
Heck, and for DPS, what would be required there, 4k dps? Normal dungeons can be cleared with less than that per DPS which means the bad DPS issue that keeps most good tanks out of the GF would not change. Heck, I think I have tanked in normal dungeon when the DPS contributing that much and we still cleared, but it is runs like that where I decided I had enough.
If you want requirements as you state find a decent guild that screens players, or at least form your own group.
Ah, I see, you didn't understand what I actually suggested... In my proposal for tanks you get a score based on time. Buffing/debuffing might get a few adds killed faster so that it's easier to stay alive longer, but it's not a requirement. It's a gradual increase in difficulty the longer it goes on, and you get a score when you're dead. Whether you stayed alive that long because your allies killed a few extra adds (due to your buffs/debuffs) or because you have excellent resource management would not matter. But making it easier for those who do buff and debuff will create an additional layer of depth for those who want to go for best scores far and beyond any dungeon qualification. This is very similar to how it would work in BC2 with a low DPS group.
And you keep coming with normal dungeons. Nobody cares about normals until the DLC ones are added. Like I said before, it could be part of the introduction to undaunted pledges, which comes at lvl45. Anything that unlocks prior to that is too easy to need any skills test anyways. I'm talking about the vet queue mostly, where low DPS causes wipes even in many non-DLC dungeons (DC2, BC2, Selene, Blackheart Haven, CoH2, CoA2, Direfrost Keep all have DPS checks).
And again, it's not like you wouldn't be able to queue for them at all, you just couldn't queue with people who want only qualified people in their group.0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭I know what you are saying and I am responding that what you are saying is wrong in a number of areas. It will not speed anything up at all. In fact for some it will make the queue take longer. I don't know of any tanks that queue as DPS. I have never seen anyone complain that a tank joined their group as a DPS. That makes zero sense.
Of course it makes zero sense, because what you think I said is not what I said. It's pretty stupid to assume that a tank will go with a pure tank character to a dungeon as a DD, but let me introduce you to what seems to be an absolutely novel idea for you: people can have more than one character. And even on the same character they might be able to perform more than one role. And yeah, even though I can tank on my templar, I'd rather go as a DD even with a longer queue, because then the chance that it will be completed (and fast) is much higher than if I went in as a tank.
As for your other concerns - in other games the dungeon queues are split heavily based on level and gear. Sorting dungeons based on a combination of skill, level and gear that is verified to work in the given environment is a huge step up. This will also cause fewer low CP people being kicked from dungeons right from the start.
Also I fail to see how adding an ability to measure tank and healer skill for guild recruitment is a bad thing, since as you said the same thing already exists for DDs.0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭End of the day you are trying to implement systems that go against the ethos of the game. Other games having something does not mean this one should as well.
The idea and the very core of the game is that any character can do anything they want.
Once you start putting walls up that people have to scale simply to do the content, you are going to lose players.
As far as bind on equip, it used to be that way, you used to be able to sell worm, ebon and all the rest, but you know what happened? VERY VERY VERY few people actually ran dungeons.
I had to create a guild in 2014 simply for a list of people that enjoyed doing them, you tried to get a group in zone good luck. They removed this option from the drops and added undaunted pledges to get people to actually have to run them for the gear they wanted.
Remove these restrictions on gear would drop the overall dungeon players.Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know what you are saying and I am responding that what you are saying is wrong in a number of areas. It will not speed anything up at all. In fact for some it will make the queue take longer. I don't know of any tanks that queue as DPS. I have never seen anyone complain that a tank joined their group as a DPS. That makes zero sense.
Of course it makes zero sense, because what you think I said is not what I said. It's pretty stupid to assume that a tank will go with a pure tank character to a dungeon as a DD, but let me introduce you to what seems to be an absolutely novel idea for you: people can have more than one character. And even on the same character they might be able to perform more than one role. And yeah, even though I can tank on my templar, I'd rather go as a DD even with a longer queue, because then the chance that it will be completed (and fast) is much higher than if I went in as a tank.
As for your other concerns - in other games the dungeon queues are split heavily based on level and gear. Sorting dungeons based on a combination of skill, level and gear that is verified to work in the given environment is a huge step up. This will also cause fewer low CP people being kicked from dungeons right from the start.
Also I fail to see how adding an ability to measure tank and healer skill for guild recruitment is a bad thing, since as you said the same thing already exists for DDs.
This isn't other games.
How long a dungeon takes is the sum of waiting for queue and actually running the dungeon.
Your idea will increase queue times for many players.
You said, "A lot of *real* tanks queue as DDs because the DDs they end up with are bad." This is counter intuitive to doing a fast run because the wait time is longer.
Did you miss the part where I said I have 15 characters, two of them tanks? Having one character or a hundred doesn't change anything about how long DPS will sit in a queue. The game doesn't check to see if you have another character and what that characters preferred role is then move you to the front of the queue.
I've done dungeons with random groups where my healer didn't need to heal at all. I've been in groups where my healer held aggro on the boss did 60% of the damage and other than one shots kept the group alive. In both cases I was able to quickly switch to a set-up that helped the group. I don't mind being able to almost stroll through a dungeon and I don't mind when it is a real struggle. I wouldn't want one or the other exclusively though. My templar healer can tank but tanking isn't what I want to do with my her so I don't queue as tank. Again how I play doesn't change how others play. People who queue as fake tank now would queue as a fake tank with your idea and a one time test isn't going to change that.
What you would rather do doesn't change what other players would rather do. You probably don't queue in a fake role now so you and other players like you are not the problem. Your idea will not change the behavior of the people that are the problem
Personally I think the DD test causes more grief than good. People rely to heavily on those arbitrary numbers and it leads to people being unnecessarily excluded from some end game content. Your tests could lead to the same thing. That being said I have suggested there be solo content similar to maelstrom arena that caters to tanks and healers. I know it would then be used as some kind of metric to get into certain groups and I don't like that part of it but still it would be fun. What I don't want is for certain content to be locked behind how well a player performs in those arenas by the game. It is bad enough players would use it like those who demand seeing your achievement for finishing vet maelstrom before they let you in the group.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭just make dungeon gear bind on equip....
people who are 4 dps'ing a dungeon arnt there because they want to do a dungeon. there there for gear.
it will 1) cut down the amount of people who are actually dps in q (making shorter q's for dps) 2) if you are doing dungeons still you obviously want to do dungeons and not burn thru it, the shorter q's for dps then there is no need to q as a fake anything
Some people do the random daily for Dibellium. Your point still stands though as players can get Dibellium from guild stores it they want. The problem is the nature of MMOs. MMOs survive by players repeating content. Binding equipment on pick-up is one way MMOs get players to repeat content. Another is through random drops. So while it sounds nice that players who don't want to run certain content could still get the gear that drops there in the long term doing so would be bad for the game.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If BoP is the only way to entice players to run dungeons, that begs the obvious question as to why dungeons are not enjoyable enough just to run for fun?
I'm sure I'm in a minority but in my case the answer is BS mechanics in many of them and the hassles involved in grouping. I quite enjoy the limited number of non-DLC dungeons that I can solo. Oh and I don't give a hoot about dungeon sets - I play for fun, not farming.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@kargen27
Dude, it's like you're not even talking to me, just quoting my statements as an excuse to sperg out.
Nah we just disagree is all. You think your idea will cut down on queue times and end the problem with people choosing fake roles. I think your idea will increase queue times and do nothing to fix the problem of fake roles.
What incentive does your idea give to people that choose to pick a role based on queue time to quit doing that? Also how do you prevent players from using your idea to get daily random rewards by doing only the easiest content. The random daily is in the game because ZoS wants us doing as many different dungeons as possible. Your idea would allow players to play the system so they only get the easiest dungeons. Last 30 seconds then die and always get Wayrest Sewers 1 when you queue for a random daily.
You tried to use the way you play the game as a way to justify your idea. The way you play the game isn't the problem. The problem is the players that queue in fake roles. You have to show how your idea changes their behavior not what it does for those of us that don't queue in fake roles.
I like that you are trying to find a solution. I don't like running with players in fake roles. When me and two guild mates were planning to run a random to help one of them level a low level character I wouldn't let one of them go in as fake tank. We knew we would get a dungeon two of us had soloed before because of the low level character but that didn't matter. I don't like players that queue in fake roles. So I am happy to see people try and find a solution. I just don't think your idea is a solution to this problem and in fact might make it worse.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Perwulf✭✭✭✭✭Just simply use the attribute allocation as detector.
Full stam/Full mag = DPS
Full health/Tri-stat = Tank
Full mag + Restoration staff = Healer
Problem solve!"Monsters doesn't exist, we create them"1 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simple solutions do not hold up due to creative players. Wanna queue as a fake tank? Reallocate your dps stats to 62/1/1.
'Problem solve!'Edited by AcadianPaladin on November 22, 2018 7:24PMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s not really a problem except for DLC vets, and half of those you ideally want a premade for anyways.0 -
SakuraRush✭✭✭This assumes changes could be made to the dungeon finder without further breaking it. Adding an "any group" option would likely break the finder and for no apparent reason somehow break provisioning.
The fact is the finder can not be "fixed" because the problem is the players not the tool. The tool is a problem for other reasons, just not this one.
Want more tanks to use the finder, make tanking outside of dungeons/trials more fun.
For example I have received zero drops on a world boss during the CWC event as a tank. I received zero drops on Murkmire world bosses during the opening days as a tank. Regular overland content is simply a chore as a tank.
In order to speed it up I could swap CP, gear, and attributes. Which would be a gold sink but more importantly a time sink. It would also mean carrying yet even more gear on top of the various tanking sets I carry.
Want a real fix for the finder, get rid of it altogether. Add a LFG chat channel.0 -
Perwulf✭✭✭✭✭SakuraRush wrote: »
v2.0
Full stam/Full mag/Must have no Shields equipped/Put max health cap 20-22k = DPS
Full health/Tri-stat/Min Health req. 23-25k or above = Tank
Full mag + Restoration staff = Healer
Problem solved! Again!
Edited by Perwulf on November 23, 2018 1:42PM"Monsters doesn't exist, we create them"0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SakuraRush wrote: »
v2.0
Full stam/Full mag/Must have no Shields equipped/Put max health cap 20-22k = DPS
Full health/Tri-stat/Min Health req. 23-25k or above = Tank
Full mag + Restoration staff = Healer
Problem solved! Again!
Stamina healers?0 -
nursingninja✭✭✭The easiest trick is to not queue alone. Take one friend with you. If you're a DPS then take a tank/healer or vice versa.
In my experience you dont want both dps to be random either. You need at least one dps who knows what a rotation is and has an IQ over 80.
I was homeschooled too so I know it's hard to meet people. But what I did was join a pve focused guild with discord. Theres always someone online that wants to do a dungeon or two.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, the dungeon finder has serious issues, this get worse if it has high load so adding more stuff for it to do will generate more bugs.SakuraRush wrote: »This assumes changes could be made to the dungeon finder without further breaking it. Adding an "any group" option would likely break the finder and for no apparent reason somehow break provisioning.
The fact is the finder can not be "fixed" because the problem is the players not the tool. The tool is a problem for other reasons, just not this one.
Want more tanks to use the finder, make tanking outside of dungeons/trials more fun.
For example I have received zero drops on a world boss during the CWC event as a tank. I received zero drops on Murkmire world bosses during the opening days as a tank. Regular overland content is simply a chore as a tank.
In order to speed it up I could swap CP, gear, and attributes. Which would be a gold sink but more importantly a time sink. It would also mean carrying yet even more gear on top of the various tanking sets I carry.
Want a real fix for the finder, get rid of it altogether. Add a LFG chat channel.
Here I would focus on fixing it, more robust code who perform better.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Perwulf✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »
v2.0
Full stam/Full mag/Must have no Shields equipped/Put max health cap 20-22k = DPS
Full health/Tri-stat/Min Health req. 23-25k or above = Tank
Full mag + Restoration staff = Healer
Problem solved! Again!
Stamina healers?
No thanks. No one wants stamina healers in their party."Monsters doesn't exist, we create them"0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agenericname wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »
v2.0
Full stam/Full mag/Must have no Shields equipped/Put max health cap 20-22k = DPS
Full health/Tri-stat/Min Health req. 23-25k or above = Tank
Full mag + Restoration staff = Healer
Problem solved! Again!
Stamina healers?
No thanks. No one wants stamina healers in their party.
Stamina healers do. I don't have an issue with them at all.
Just make everyone a templar or warden healer, problem solved.0 -
Perwulf✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »SakuraRush wrote: »
v2.0
Full stam/Full mag/Must have no Shields equipped/Put max health cap 20-22k = DPS
Full health/Tri-stat/Min Health req. 23-25k or above = Tank
Full mag + Restoration staff = Healer
Problem solved! Again!
Stamina healers?
No thanks. No one wants stamina healers in their party.
Stamina healers do. I don't have an issue with them at all.
Just make everyone a templar or warden healer, problem solved.
For vet dungeons and trials? Nah uh no thanks.
Edit:AcadianPaladin wrote: »Simple solutions do not hold up due to creative players. Wanna queue as a fake tank? Reallocate your dps stats to 62/1/1.
'Problem solve!'
Well... no such thing as creative in this game as it was advertised. It's either you BIS builds, item, or FOTM classes or stay below the food chain and do casual stuffs.
Edited by Perwulf on November 23, 2018 6:50PM"Monsters doesn't exist, we create them"0 -
temjiu✭✭✭✭@ZeroXFF
I think were still at an impasse. You believe that tanks don't queue because of bad DPS, and they form the bulk of they players that would tank. I believe that most players don't play tanks due to perceived pressure and being in the "spotlight". Your position comes from the perspective of someone who tanks regularly in the game (and seems to like it from the sound of it...your still doing it?), My perspective comes from someone who plays whatever role is needed, and quite often just plays what I want.
OP is correct that a majority of skilled tanks choose to not queue via GF because of very low DPS as well as healers. Myself and some other experienced players like to queue up for randoms to help others, but we tend to queue as a healer (or as a DPS with a support person already in our group since we can do good dps while also healing. We tend to pull more than both DPS combined.
I also queue with a 3 player group, even for vet dungeons. Sometimes find a decent player in those groups. But have also told the group (voice comms) to not rez the pug if they were dying a lot and their dps was not so good. They get their clear still.
A majority of the skilled tanks, sure. I would even put myself in that category...I have tanked in most MMO's since I started playing them 15 years or so ago. I tank allot less nowadays due to bad groups, bad PUG's, and in all honesty, much of this I heap on the whole LFG system...I preferred the days when you have to spam chat and manually put a group together. But it is what it is, and I do agree that skilled tanks tank less often due to bad DPS, or bad players in general.
However, do skilled tanks make up for the bulk of players? because long queue times are a result of the majority choosing to DPS, not a small minority of well played tanks refusing to tank in randoms. Again, were not talking about a small group of players that play tanks well. My reference was to the general concept of why DPS queues are long, and it's not because the good tanks queue as DPS. If every tank that was a good tank and had a good tank and liked tanking queued as tanks, the wait for DPS in queue would change very little. because the bulk of players play DPS, good or bad. And this would still not stop FAKE tanks or healers, which was the point of the thread.
Neither would the OP's solution. It would, again, only give a queue where those same good tanks would mass, resulting in them having a higher chance of getting good DPS. This whole thread isn't about solutions to fake tanks, even though that's the title. It's really about solutions to give Tanks who don't' want to deal with poor skilled players their own special snowflake queue.
Which would still have crazy queue times for DPS, because most players still don't want to play as tank. BUT, it would make the OP feel better about his tanking. and it would still split the playerbase, resulting in worse times and possibly even more fake tanks. I would probably start tanking again, pass the trials, and join the special snowflake queue as well. But it wouldn't solve the issue.Edited by temjiu on November 27, 2018 1:21AM0 -
I second your ideas. I actually suggested such a thing to my girlfriend a few weeks back!
Also, it sounds obvious, but having some sort of option to “kick as fake”, then if you get 3 or 5 or however many “kick as fakes” in a certain period, you’re forbidden from the activity finder for a certain period - that might be a big enough threat to stop a lot of people from doing it.
Along with this, implementing a feature that allows us to “block” certain players then not placing us in a group with people we’ve blocked could help, particularly with the issue of kicking someone because they’re not their role and keep getting them again because they keep queueing as a fake, often specifically for that dungeon or pledges.0
