VaranisArano wrote: »A basic tank holds boss aggro and doesn't die.
A good tank holds boss aggro, crowd controls mobs, taunts priority and heavy hitting adds, debuffs the boss, buffs the group, holds the boss more or less still in the AOEs, blocks, bashes, interrupts, follows mechanics, and doesn't die.
You could combine a basic tank with a Healer. Thats what my healer is forced to do every time I get a fake tank.
But a good tank is doing way too much to combine with a healer role.
It is great to think of ideas but it is even more important to justify claims made in the idea.
1. When stating there would be more tanks requires an explanation of how tanks will cease avoiding GF to begin with . Especially since most tanks avoid GF because of the far to common poor dps situation.
2. There are players in the game that can clear even vet DLC HM dungeons without a dedicated healer, but many players are not there yet. If the issue that keeps tanks out of GF is low DPS these same DPS probably need a dedicated healer.
3. It also goes against what Zos has recently stated, that they want healers to feel more needed, the reason behind the recent shield nerf. Eliminating them from the GF is probably not going to make them feel more needed.
While I read the entire OP, most of the points just would not work.
Fix the reason tanks do not queue if you want more tanks using the GF. They are there, they just avoid the GF like it is the plague.
If there are two roles you can efficiently combine it is healer and DD, not tank. Heals and damage scale from the same stat so a character built for healing is usually capable of being a solid DD.
What about tanks? They have abysmal Spell Damage and low max magická since they don't build for damage. Unless heals are %health based they are very small on your average tank.
Give tanks an option to have more healing? Well you remember about healing scaling from the same stats as damage? Yep, this will lead to tanky builds with strong healing and damage. And no one (including ZOS) wants that.
I'm sorry but this idea just shows that you do not understand the underlying game mechanics.
If there are two roles you can efficiently combine it is healer and DD, not tank. Heals and damage scale from the same stat so a character built for healing is usually capable of being a solid DD.
What about tanks? They have abysmal Spell Damage and low max magická since they don't build for damage. Unless heals are %health based they are very small on your average tank.
Give tanks an option to have more healing? Well you remember about healing scaling from the same stats as damage? Yep, this will lead to tanky builds with strong healing and damage. And no one (including ZOS) wants that.
I'm sorry but this idea just shows that you do not understand the underlying game mechanics.
You can act like they have never made a change in this game but in reality it changes all the time. It wasnt so long that sorc shields werent affected by health. Now they are, so in your world where nothing changes how can you reconcile that?
If there are two roles you can efficiently combine it is healer and DD, not tank. Heals and damage scale from the same stat so a character built for healing is usually capable of being a solid DD.
What about tanks? They have abysmal Spell Damage and low max magická since they don't build for damage. Unless heals are %health based they are very small on your average tank.
Give tanks an option to have more healing? Well you remember about healing scaling from the same stats as damage? Yep, this will lead to tanky builds with strong healing and damage. And no one (including ZOS) wants that.
I'm sorry but this idea just shows that you do not understand the underlying game mechanics.
You can act like they have never made a change in this game but in reality it changes all the time. It wasnt so long that sorc shields werent affected by health. Now they are, so in your world where nothing changes how can you reconcile that?
I'm not sure how is that post relevant?
I'll ask again, a bit more simple: Heals scale from the same stats as damage. Tanks do not build for those stats and have abysmal healing as a result. Giving tanks an ability to have sufficent stats for both tanking and healing leads to them also having high damage.
How do you propose to combine tanking and healing role under such system? While avoiding turning everyone into a tanky self healing DD? And not ruining PvP in the process?
And no, ZOS is not going to balance PvE and PvP separately.
If there are two roles you can efficiently combine it is healer and DD, not tank. Heals and damage scale from the same stat so a character built for healing is usually capable of being a solid DD.
What about tanks? They have abysmal Spell Damage and low max magická since they don't build for damage. Unless heals are %health based they are very small on your average tank.
Give tanks an option to have more healing? Well you remember about healing scaling from the same stats as damage? Yep, this will lead to tanky builds with strong healing and damage. And no one (including ZOS) wants that.
I'm sorry but this idea just shows that you do not understand the underlying game mechanics.
You can act like they have never made a change in this game but in reality it changes all the time. It wasnt so long that sorc shields werent affected by health. Now they are, so in your world where nothing changes how can you reconcile that?
I'm not sure how is that post relevant?
I'll ask again, a bit more simple: Heals scale from the same stats as damage. Tanks do not build for those stats and have abysmal healing as a result. Giving tanks an ability to have sufficent stats for both tanking and healing leads to them also having high damage.
How do you propose to combine tanking and healing role under such system? While avoiding turning everyone into a tanky self healing DD? And not ruining PvP in the process?
And no, ZOS is not going to balance PvE and PvP separately.
but it doesnt when heals stack from health.i.e a change. I could have infinite healing on my tank but wouldnt be able to do more dmg. In order to do dmg you need high mag/stam and high weapon/spell dmg.
they used this exact same idea to balance shields recently by linking them to your health. With the exception of a couple of warden ice skills no dmg scales from health. Its purely defensive.
zos new idea is to use health to limit defensive powers while using the mag or stam stat to govern power so the days of what you describe are over.
zos new idea is to use health to limit defensive powers while using the mag or stam stat to govern power so the days of what you describe are over.
Wrong. Since you really can't let shield changes go let's dive into them a bit. Shields do not scale with health. They are limited by health. To this day they still scale with magicka. And a build with 10k magicka and 50k health will not have a 25k shield.
Your idea of merging tanking and healing requires scaling heals with health (or even another defensive stat) and it is not he same. And limiting healing by health will only make current healers mad, not allow tanks to efficiently heal. Kinda goes against the whole "make heales relevant" idea.
It is great to think of ideas but it is even more important to justify claims made in the idea.
1. When stating there would be more tanks requires an explanation of how tanks will cease avoiding GF to begin with . Especially since most tanks avoid GF because of the far to common poor dps situation.
2. There are players in the game that can clear even vet DLC HM dungeons without a dedicated healer, but many players are not there yet. If the issue that keeps tanks out of GF is low DPS these same DPS probably need a dedicated healer.
3. It also goes against what Zos has recently stated, that they want healers to feel more needed, the reason behind the recent shield nerf. Eliminating them from the GF is probably not going to make them feel more needed.
While I read the entire OP, most of the points just would not work.
Fix the reason tanks do not queue if you want more tanks using the GF. They are there, they just avoid the GF like it is the plague.
i find you to be extremely dismissive of any change even though this game changes all the time but ill bite.
1) 3 dps will ensure more dps. There is no question about that. If you replace a healer with a dps youll get more dps and less healing.
2) zos changes their mind all the time so what they state yesterday doesnt really apply. I could also say that they recently said they are looking into a new approach which they did at the top of this forum. Instead i prefer to offer the ideas. Whether or not they use them or thinbk they are viable is up to them.
3) I pug tank all the time and i dont avoid the groupfinder. A matter of fact i only pug dungeons. Sometimes it really sucks. Other times it doesnt. I do see what goes on there though and im not biased by my premade group because i dont have one.I use my cinder storm to heal my puggies since i dont need it for myself so im already doing what you say cant work. Others are doing it as well.
4) this would have zero impact on trials since you could still be a main healer. You would just be a heavily armored main healer. My tank has as good magic sustain as my healer (~2100). With health based heals there would literally be no difference in a trial other than the healer would be harder to kill.
5) zos will gut every players ability to self heal to justify the healer role. I dont think its a good idea.
zos new idea is to use health to limit defensive powers while using the mag or stam stat to govern power so the days of what you describe are over.
Wrong. Since you really can't let shield changes go let's dive into them a bit. Shields do not scale with health. They are limited by health. To this day they still scale with magicka. And a build with 10k magicka and 50k health will not have a 25k shield.
Your idea of merging tanking and healing requires scaling heals with health (or even another defensive stat) and it is not he same. And limiting healing by health will only make current healers mad, not allow tanks to efficiently heal. Kinda goes against the whole "make heales relevant" idea.
I consider the health cap as part of the overall health scaling. i.e the shield solution. So you agree that there would be no runaway builds with this method since two stats are required.
i know there are many players that would love to tank heal. Ive done it myself on my templar. I do it on my dragonknight.
if i was zos i would do everything in my power to bring down the groupfinder to under 5 minutes. This is one way to help achieve that.
also i didnt make this playstyle. The game did it naturally despite what you, i, or zos wanted. I wouldnt write that off so quickly.
the false assumption your making is using the existing rules which zos would surely change as they always do.
the false assumption your making is using the existing rules which zos would surely change as they always do.
VaranisArano wrote: »A basic tank holds boss aggro and doesn't die.
A good tank holds boss aggro, crowd controls mobs, taunts priority and heavy hitting adds, debuffs the boss, buffs the group, holds the boss more or less still in the AOEs, blocks, bashes, interrupts, follows mechanics, and doesn't die.
You could combine a basic tank with a Healer. Thats what my healer is forced to do every time I get a fake tank.
But a good tank is doing way too much to combine with a healer role.
VaranisArano wrote: »A basic tank holds boss aggro and doesn't die.
A good tank holds boss aggro, crowd controls mobs, taunts priority and heavy hitting adds, debuffs the boss, buffs the group, holds the boss more or less still in the AOEs, blocks, bashes, interrupts, follows mechanics, and doesn't die.
You could combine a basic tank with a Healer. Thats what my healer is forced to do every time I get a fake tank.
But a good tank is doing way too much to combine with a healer role.
Good tanks are already doing it for hard dungeons and arenas.
I don't think the two roles should be merged in all content