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Whirlwind
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Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
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People chose the steel tornado morph because extra range is clearly more useful than a stamina regen buff you can already get reliably from other sources, however an execute is clearly more useful than extra range, especially on an ability that does relatively low damage without the execute. The decision between morphs will still be a no-brainer.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Switching the bonuses on the two morphs won't fix a thing, Steel Tornado isn't the default choice because of the range, its the execute that matters, without the execute the damage is so low that it isn't even worth bothering with. So if all you do is switch the execute to whirling blades and the stam regen to steel tornado, everyone will just use whirling blades instead, since the extra range is pointless on an ability that does abysmal damage for the cost. If your goal is to balance the two morphs what you need to do is give whirling blades something useful, like maybe something dual wield is currently lacking.
If your goal is to simply nerf steel tornado, then I suggest you ask for other more powerful and equally mindless PBAOEs(like hurricane) be nerfed first before complaining about steel tornado.
The execute is part of the base skill and both morphs. The point of this thread is to remove that from the base and steel tornado. Then the only one that would have the in-skill execute (dual wield passives would still apply to both morphs) would be the 78 meter area whirlwind, not the 254 meter area steel tornado, if you don't see how this would make the skill choice more interesting, your eyes need to be checked.
Also, stop comparing ST, a single hit skill to a dot like hurricane. They are completely different in their use.
Also it is perfectly reasonable to compare Steel Tornado to Hurricane. They are both PBAOEs and have similar ranges. The only reason you don't want to compare the two is because it weakens your argument that Steel Tornado is somehow OP when a PBAOE dot that only has to be cast once every 15 seconds does as much or more damage per second than a single use ability like Steel Tornado.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
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People chose the steel tornado morph because extra range is clearly more useful than a stamina regen buff you can already get reliably from other sources, however an execute is clearly more useful than extra range, especially on an ability that does relatively low damage without the execute. The decision between morphs will still be a no-brainer.Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Switching the bonuses on the two morphs won't fix a thing, Steel Tornado isn't the default choice because of the range, its the execute that matters, without the execute the damage is so low that it isn't even worth bothering with. So if all you do is switch the execute to whirling blades and the stam regen to steel tornado, everyone will just use whirling blades instead, since the extra range is pointless on an ability that does abysmal damage for the cost. If your goal is to balance the two morphs what you need to do is give whirling blades something useful, like maybe something dual wield is currently lacking.
If your goal is to simply nerf steel tornado, then I suggest you ask for other more powerful and equally mindless PBAOEs(like hurricane) be nerfed first before complaining about steel tornado.
The execute is part of the base skill and both morphs. The point of this thread is to remove that from the base and steel tornado. Then the only one that would have the in-skill execute (dual wield passives would still apply to both morphs) would be the 78 meter area whirlwind, not the 254 meter area steel tornado, if you don't see how this would make the skill choice more interesting, your eyes need to be checked.
Also, stop comparing ST, a single hit skill to a dot like hurricane. They are completely different in their use.
Also it is perfectly reasonable to compare Steel Tornado to Hurricane. They are both PBAOEs and have similar ranges. The only reason you don't want to compare the two is because it weakens your argument that Steel Tornado is somehow OP when a PBAOE dot that only has to be cast once every 15 seconds does as much or more damage per second than a single use ability like Steel Tornado.
If You think that 5 meters radius morph with additional execute dmg would be that no brainer to choose then You're wrong. Extra range is the most important feature why ppl choose steel tornado , extra dmg is just good addition that expands ability usefulness to other teritories but would mean nothing in that teritories without decent range.
Hurricane have 9 meters range only last 5 seconds it start from 5 meters then after 5 seconds go to 7 meters and after next 5 seconds to 9 meters so average range of it is lower then steel tornado and if You're not clairvoyant then You cannot predict what will happen 10 seconds later , if You'll refresh Hurricane earlier You are also screwed which makes steel tornado much more reliable plus steel tornado also deals much more dmg.Edited by Juhasow on November 18, 2018 1:58AM1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »This is a nerf, I use it and enjoy it. And to use this it can be simply and much fun but you still need to get someone to execute range. Plus magica users have a delayed execute on the sorc and a very strong ranged execute via the magblade. This execute is somewhat ranged plus aoe and this is very nice to have as a stam character. Keep this skill as is.
Plus 5m is very small. Other executes are single target but this does allows the animation to target your opponent. While this is aoe is more difficult to focus on a target you need to position yourself. 5m will not work in open world pvp.
Reverse slice is also 5 meters and no one seems to have a problem with that.
Reverse slice hits MUCH HARDER than ST or whirlwind. Not only that it costs much less, very easy to weave with and its actually a ST attack that does a lot of splash damage whereas ST is purely aoe.
I would be fine with making whirlwind viable but nerfing ST is just killing dw even further which is a weapon popular for bleeds, not for its not so amazing abilities.
Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 18, 2018 2:51AM0 -
Nurable✭✭✭✭I could not find a topic for weapon abilities for Class representatives.
One of the morphs is extremely strong while the other morph is bad.
My proposal.
Remove the execute part from the base skill and add it to Whirling Blades. Then we will have a cheaper skill with execute and low range.
Steel tornado should keep the range of 9 meters. It still inherits the DW passive execute.
Why does it have to be balanced? If one is better than the other, then use that one! Steel Tornado hardly gets used in pve now because of it debuffs over the years and it's one of my fav skills!! Nerf it more and we'll have to dig a grave for one of the most fun moves in the game since day 1.0 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Switching the bonuses on the two morphs won't fix a thing, Steel Tornado isn't the default choice because of the range, its the execute that matters, without the execute the damage is so low that it isn't even worth bothering with. So if all you do is switch the execute to whirling blades and the stam regen to steel tornado, everyone will just use whirling blades instead, since the extra range is pointless on an ability that does abysmal damage for the cost. If your goal is to balance the two morphs what you need to do is give whirling blades something useful, like maybe something dual wield is currently lacking.
If your goal is to simply nerf steel tornado, then I suggest you ask for other more powerful and equally mindless PBAOEs(like hurricane) be nerfed first before complaining about steel tornado.
The execute is part of the base skill and both morphs. The point of this thread is to remove that from the base and steel tornado. Then the only one that would have the in-skill execute (dual wield passives would still apply to both morphs) would be the 78 meter area whirlwind, not the 254 meter area steel tornado, if you don't see how this would make the skill choice more interesting, your eyes need to be checked.
Also, stop comparing ST, a single hit skill to a dot like hurricane. They are completely different in their use.As a PVE stam dps , I would say no .
What Stam dps has steel tornado on their bar thesr days? What does your bar look like?
That's the point. Everyone switches to the version that has less range. You know so you might actually have to play to hit something. Thanks for clearly iterating the point.1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Switching the bonuses on the two morphs won't fix a thing, Steel Tornado isn't the default choice because of the range, its the execute that matters, without the execute the damage is so low that it isn't even worth bothering with. So if all you do is switch the execute to whirling blades and the stam regen to steel tornado, everyone will just use whirling blades instead, since the extra range is pointless on an ability that does abysmal damage for the cost. If your goal is to balance the two morphs what you need to do is give whirling blades something useful, like maybe something dual wield is currently lacking.
If your goal is to simply nerf steel tornado, then I suggest you ask for other more powerful and equally mindless PBAOEs(like hurricane) be nerfed first before complaining about steel tornado.
The execute is part of the base skill and both morphs. The point of this thread is to remove that from the base and steel tornado. Then the only one that would have the in-skill execute (dual wield passives would still apply to both morphs) would be the 78 meter area whirlwind, not the 254 meter area steel tornado, if you don't see how this would make the skill choice more interesting, your eyes need to be checked.
Also, stop comparing ST, a single hit skill to a dot like hurricane. They are completely different in their use.As a PVE stam dps , I would say no .
What Stam dps has steel tornado on their bar thesr days? What does your bar look like?
That's the point. Everyone switches to the version that has less range. You know so you might actually have to play to hit something. Thanks for clearly iterating the point.
cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not. i have been felly behind the proposed change in the op the whole thread. also i really dont think everyone would change to the other morph, you would still get good damage out of the steel trocando, my tooltip is around 6k on my stamblade, that is a pretty good amount of damage.
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on November 19, 2018 2:53PM0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I could not find a topic for weapon abilities for Class representatives.
One of the morphs is extremely strong while the other morph is bad.
My proposal.
Remove the execute part from the base skill and add it to Whirling Blades. Then we will have a cheaper skill with execute and low range.
Steel tornado should keep the range of 9 meters. It still inherits the DW passive execute.
what would steel tornado do then? really bad damage?
Devs could attach a small DoT or move the stamina recovery there. But right now 254 square meters (9m radius) AoE execute that could be used even with closed eyes is a stupid design.
well, that is the problem with most magicka based AoE! so if you want it removed from 1 of 2 stamina based AoE then be fair enough to ask for a NERF from at least 50% of all magicka-based AoE too.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I could not find a topic for weapon abilities for Class representatives.
One of the morphs is extremely strong while the other morph is bad.
My proposal.
Remove the execute part from the base skill and add it to Whirling Blades. Then we will have a cheaper skill with execute and low range.
Steel tornado should keep the range of 9 meters. It still inherits the DW passive execute.
what would steel tornado do then? really bad damage?
Devs could attach a small DoT or move the stamina recovery there. But right now 254 square meters (9m radius) AoE execute that could be used even with closed eyes is a stupid design.
well, that is the problem with most magicka based AoE! so if you want it removed from 1 of 2 stamina based AoE then be fair enough to ask for a NERF from at least 50% of all magicka-based AoE too.
there are only 2 magic skills in the game like steel tornado, that is PBAOE, impulse and sap essence and almost no one uses them, even if they are ~33% more damage for impulse, at the same base stats and for sap, the same amount but it heals you too and give major sorcery. when was the last time you seen anyone run these skills?1 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »I could not find a topic for weapon abilities for Class representatives.
One of the morphs is extremely strong while the other morph is bad.
My proposal.
Remove the execute part from the base skill and add it to Whirling Blades. Then we will have a cheaper skill with execute and low range.
Steel tornado should keep the range of 9 meters. It still inherits the DW passive execute.
Why does it have to be balanced? If one is better than the other, then use that one! Steel Tornado hardly gets used in pve now because of it debuffs over the years and it's one of my fav skills!! Nerf it more and we'll have to dig a grave for one of the most fun moves in the game since day 1.
Summon Shade is a fun skill. Nature's Grasp is a fun skill. Dragon Leap is a fun skill. Streak is a fun skill. Precognition is a fun skill. Manifestation of Fear is a fun skill. ... Steel Tornado, literally spin to win one-button spamming? Not a fun skill.
But, this is definitely opinion-based due to "fun" being relative to each user. haha0 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I could not find a topic for weapon abilities for Class representatives.
One of the morphs is extremely strong while the other morph is bad.
My proposal.
Remove the execute part from the base skill and add it to Whirling Blades. Then we will have a cheaper skill with execute and low range.
Steel tornado should keep the range of 9 meters. It still inherits the DW passive execute.
what would steel tornado do then? really bad damage?
Devs could attach a small DoT or move the stamina recovery there. But right now 254 square meters (9m radius) AoE execute that could be used even with closed eyes is a stupid design.
well, that is the problem with most magicka based AoE! so if you want it removed from 1 of 2 stamina based AoE then be fair enough to ask for a NERF from at least 50% of all magicka-based AoE too.
there are only 2 magic skills in the game like steel tornado, that is PBAOE, impulse and sap essence and almost no one uses them, even if they are ~33% more damage for impulse, at the same base stats and for sap, the same amount but it heals you too and give major sorcery. when was the last time you seen anyone run these skills?
I know, bro, add execute scaling from 100% health down to Sap Essence/Impulse so Magicka-based characters get an aoe execute
/s We'll see how stamina enjoys that then 
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Zeromaz✭✭✭✭Its sad that every single stam sorc runs the same stuff. Its always dawnbreaker, hurricane, steel tornado, w/ axes. Its effective, but it shouldn’t be so powerful that it overshadows other types of play.
they're running that build because it's either that or a dizzy swing build, that's what happens when a class has a total of one class damage skill...
Wrong. Everyone runs this because someone streaming had success with it so instead of building something themselves, they just use what worked for the streamer. Flying dagger happens to be a great ability but that hasn’t come to light because no one on stream is running it yet.2 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its sad that every single stam sorc runs the same stuff. Its always dawnbreaker, hurricane, steel tornado, w/ axes. Its effective, but it shouldn’t be so powerful that it overshadows other types of play.
What other types of play? Honestly wondering. I'm not some PvP god or PvP as much as you guys in this thread do but the only time I see stam sorcs are in a group, using dbos, hurricane, spin to win and MAYBE rending slashes. I mained one in pve since like forever until recently. I see em the same way in pvp as I do in pve, you can do so much more with other classes.They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭Switching the bonuses on the two morphs won't fix a thing, Steel Tornado isn't the default choice because of the range, its the execute that matters, without the execute the damage is so low that it isn't even worth bothering with. So if all you do is switch the execute to whirling blades and the stam regen to steel tornado, everyone will just use whirling blades instead, since the extra range is pointless on an ability that does abysmal damage for the cost. If your goal is to balance the two morphs what you need to do is give whirling blades something useful, like maybe something dual wield is currently lacking.
If your goal is to simply nerf steel tornado, then I suggest you ask for other more powerful and equally mindless PBAOEs(like hurricane) be nerfed first before complaining about steel tornado.
I agree with this. Execute on both, extra range with steel tornado, some new option for blades.
William Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20 -
Stigant✭✭✭✭lassitershawn wrote: »Switching the bonuses on the two morphs won't fix a thing, Steel Tornado isn't the default choice because of the range, its the execute that matters, without the execute the damage is so low that it isn't even worth bothering with. So if all you do is switch the execute to whirling blades and the stam regen to steel tornado, everyone will just use whirling blades instead, since the extra range is pointless on an ability that does abysmal damage for the cost. If your goal is to balance the two morphs what you need to do is give whirling blades something useful, like maybe something dual wield is currently lacking.
If your goal is to simply nerf steel tornado, then I suggest you ask for other more powerful and equally mindless PBAOEs(like hurricane) be nerfed first before complaining about steel tornado.
I agree with this. Execute on both, extra range with steel tornado, some new option for blades.
The truth is, tornado has its place for other stam builds in case they need to execute the slipery NB cloaking away after overreaching and trying to escape from certain death. So maybe this idea of having the execute on both morphs night be a good start.
Question is, what would be that something extra for whirling blades that would make me stop and think if i really want the extra range... because as the morph stands at the moment Steel Tornado is still a no brainer choice.
Edit: of coursr there are other uses, but the one I mentioned is actually quite important imho.Edited by Stigant on November 23, 2018 9:20PM0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭An AoE execute is just a bad idea in general. All it does is to buff and encourage bomb groups which in turn are the no. 1 source of lag. And executing multiple targets at once is just imbalanced and does not belong into an MMO.1 -
Stigant✭✭✭✭It just has so much going for it. Scaling from 99% HP down, exta damage to low HP target from DW passives, extra damage to CCed from DW passives, great PBAoE radius ... all and all very strong ability when used at the right moment in solo/small group.
In a ball group, playing a stam based rapids-spaming-bot, when your group is going offensive, there is no wrong time to use it, so you sure are contributing to kills while spaming the life out of your Tornado button even when built for sustain for that rapids support.
Idk how big problem it is, but it sure doesn't promote skillfull gameplay and using the right ability at the right time.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »another thread asking for more nerfs.
i trust the devs, i think they know what their doing without the need for constant spamming nerf threads.
please End the Nerf request threads.
@dwemer_paleologist
I just fought your stamina sorc in BGs. Now I know why you dont want the skill changed. You use hurricane, rending slashes and then you start spasming steel tornado from 100%.Because I can!1 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭Best way not to get killed by steel tornado or any execute is not get in execute range. If you are in execute range then you have already made a mistake.0