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What Does ZOS Want Sorc To Be?
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MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think they have any such vision.Edited by MasterSpatula on November 13, 2018 6:50PM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's clear up some stuff,
1) the most popular class across all games is the rogue/assassin type class, so from a business perspective it makes perfect sense why NBs would be over performing.
2) good players are not the majority so appealing to the mass on the floor is another attempt at sustaining a player base. This means nerfing classes to bring the skill ceiling down and the floor up. However, good players continually adapt or eventually leave (like with murkmire) when the potatoe adjustments become unrewarding for skilled players.
3) bad players continually have issues developing their own skills, and resort to the forums to complain.
Until the general population starts to take personal responsibility for their own lack of skill and value a tiered skill system, expect the game to be continued to be dumbed down to appeal to majority.
1vX gameplay is what drew me to PvP...not zerging. But I get it....the 20 players who suck at this game are worth more $$$ than the 1 guy who is very good.Edited by Malamar1229 on November 13, 2018 7:09PM0 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
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do you want to say that sorcs are actually okay at killing noobs but should beware anyone who knows how to use gapcloser?Sorc is actually in a pretty okay place this patch, at least pvp wise. As long as you play well and take great care with your engagements you will come out on top. 1vx is still possible and time to kill can be quick. just have to watch out for the big scary fast heavy armor dudes that never relent and DK reflects. Yes we are a bit more vulnerable but in group play that wont matter as much since you can alway stand behind a teammate in heavy armor and let them take the hits.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.Edited by Katahdin on November 13, 2018 7:04PMBeta tester November 20131 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Then I wonder why so many of these (read: almost all) have been nerfed :thinking:Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Then I wonder why so many of these (read: almost all) have been nerfed :thinking:
Because some of them in combo made sorcs too strong. I know you'll disagree with that statement but it's the only obvious answerBeta tester November 20130 -
Sygil05✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Killing a lot of people with your 34k Magicka Boundless Storm DoT and spamming wrath while hoping for a frag proc that isn't dodged?
Yeah, we have several CCs to choose from, but if the NB/Templar/DK/Warden is just going to shrug or heal off the damage we're putting out, does it even matter?0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
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Realistically, you're right...but that tracks back too ZOS not having a vision for the class. They gave Sorc too much, and took it all away without realizing that they left it with nothingI guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Then I wonder why so many of these (read: almost all) have been nerfed :thinking:
Because some of them in combo made sorcs too strong. I know you'll disagree with that statement but it's the only obvious answerValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
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Realistically, you're right...but that tracks back too ZOS not having a vision for the class. They gave Sorc too much, and took it all away without realizing that they left it with nothingI guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Then I wonder why so many of these (read: almost all) have been nerfed :thinking:
Because some of them in combo made sorcs too strong. I know you'll disagree with that statement but it's the only obvious answer
That's your opinion and you're free to see it that way. I have not found them to be overly weak since the change. Not overly strong either.Beta tester November 20130 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
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Realistically, you're right...but that tracks back too ZOS not having a vision for the class. They gave Sorc too much, and took it all away without realizing that they left it with nothingI guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Then I wonder why so many of these (read: almost all) have been nerfed :thinking:
Because some of them in combo made sorcs too strong. I know you'll disagree with that statement but it's the only obvious answer
That's your opinion and you're free to see it that way. I have not found them to be overly weak since the change. Not overly strong either.
Which change, exactly? The most recent one? Because Sorc has been getting nerfed for years with seemingly no direction and no compensation via buffs.
All I ask of ZOS is what they intend for the class to beValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Killing a lot of people with your 34k Magicka Boundless Storm DoT and spamming wrath while hoping for a frag proc that isn't dodged?
Yeah, we have several CCs to choose from, but if the NB/Templar/DK/Warden is just going to shrug or heal off the damage we're putting out, does it even matter?
What am I supposed to use for skills according to you? Light attack? Or maybe I should slot all pets instead? I've found what works for me.
My KDR (according to the kill counter addon) in Cyrodiil is usually between 5 and 10 and I regularly get kill streaks of 10 to 20. I think those numbers reflect more about my knowledge of Cyrodiil gameplay and being a cautious player than it does about my skill.
Granted I run my sorc with a group most of the time which helps but I have won some 1v1 battles. I've lost some too.
I am happy with that and I would say yes "I'm doing fine"Edited by Katahdin on November 13, 2018 7:53PMBeta tester November 20130 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Killing a lot of people with your 34k Magicka Boundless Storm DoT and spamming wrath while hoping for a frag proc that isn't dodged?
Yeah, we have several CCs to choose from, but if the NB/Templar/DK/Warden is just going to shrug or heal off the damage we're putting out, does it even matter?
What am I supposed to use for skills according to you? Light attack? Or maybe I should slot all pets instead? I've found what works for me.
My KDR (according to the kill counter addon) in Cyrodiil is usually between 5 and 10 and I regularly get kill streaks of 10 to 20. I think those numbers reflect more about my knowledge of Cyrodiil gameplay and being a cautious player than it does about my skill.
Granted I run my sorc with a group most of the time which helps but I have won some 1v1 battles. I've lost some too.
I am happy with that and I would say yes "I'm doing fine"
I guess you found your niche: casting Wrath from a group and get killing blows. If that's what matters then I guess it's a good time to be a sorc. At least until the BG crowd get's it's way.1 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Literally no ideaSorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
Wrathmane✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Killing a lot of people with your 34k Magicka Boundless Storm DoT and spamming wrath while hoping for a frag proc that isn't dodged?
Yeah, we have several CCs to choose from, but if the NB/Templar/DK/Warden is just going to shrug or heal off the damage we're putting out, does it even matter?
What am I supposed to use for skills according to you? Light attack? Or maybe I should slot all pets instead? I've found what works for me.
My KDR (according to the kill counter addon) in Cyrodiil is usually between 5 and 10 and I regularly get kill streaks of 10 to 20. I think those numbers reflect more about my knowledge of Cyrodiil gameplay and being a cautious player than it does about my skill.
Granted I run my sorc with a group most of the time which helps but I have won some 1v1 battles. I've lost some too.
I am happy with that and I would say yes "I'm doing fine"
I guess you found your niche: casting Wrath from a group and get killing blows. If that's what matters then I guess it's a good time to be a sorc. At least until the BG crowd get's it's way.
You know its funny.... I currently have four PVP setups for my sorc that I will switch between depending on my mood at the time. One of them is casting wrath from a group while equiped with VD.... tends to work pretty good.
I also run a negate monkey tank/support build with Bloodspawn/heavy armor for medium large group play... that does minimal damage... but is fun as hell streaking around time stopping and encasing everything and everybody around me.
A solo build with a restro/ S&B mix of healing and damage..... and a medium group BG build (that I'm still working on tbh).
I've been playing the sorc since launch.... I've tanked/DPS/ and healed vet trials and vet DLC dungeons with some HM clears.........
I'm still enjoying playing my sorc..... Why does ZOS have to choose the direction of my character..... I've made my character what I want her to be and as long as I keep having fun playing her..... I will.Sha'ria Wrathmane - Belora Wrathmane - Leora WrathmaneFormer Head of Recruitment for Vokundein0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The aggravation, discontent, and vitriol in response to these shield changes is alive and well. I don't think this is one of the "interesting decisions" ZOS had in mind with these nerfs. How can such a negative reaction from the community be good for the game?
I still think ZOS overthought this one. Single shields should have been left alone. Mitigating the effects of stacking would have been a far more reasonable response. Whatever their vision for MagSorcs are it certainly is not in line with what so many originally found fun and enjoyable. Just a very strange decision that hurts the game. I really wish they would admit the mistake, but I'm not holding my breath.1 -
AuraNebula✭✭✭✭✭The Venn diagram is more than slightly skewed. Given the space, sorc can be an efficient dd, and provide ground effects to assist damage dealt by others. A decent mag sorc can cement the gaps between player levels; there is flexibility in crowd control, supplementary attack and being the single target main damage source. But you need a group where you can play to your strengths, one that knows the benefits and limitations of the class - - not a bunch of glory hounds that want to rush ahead and leave you out of breath dealing with the aggro they created... sorcs can fill supporting positions and be as useful as the group requires. The only issue I have is the ever dwindling pool of skills that allow me to do that.
To me, that's where the lack of direction seems to come from. Role flexibility is becoming steadily more rigid without any clear destination of what thee intent is.
I believe the diagram is more referring to the hardcore end game guilds where they only want one sorc and 7 Magblades or a mix of stam and magicka nightblades depending on the trial. For example I'm in a prog group for vAS hm and all I do is stand and look pretty while spamming crushing shock on llothis and keeping LL on olms. I'm a dps and usually they just use a faux sorc healer instead of a mag dps. Theres little to no space for sorcs in endgame. People want the highest dps ceilings and we just don't make the cut, because other classes hit higher with less effort. (Not that they havent put in work their skills just hit harder)
Edited by AuraNebula on November 14, 2018 7:59PM2 -
Sygil05✭✭✭I guess I didnt address "what sorcs are supposed to be" in my post
Only the combat devs can really answer that but I'll surmise that in general sorcs are supposed to be damage dealers that have the ability to rely a lot on DoT (hurricane/boundless storm, lightening), lots of cc options (encase, rune prison, frags, negate, mines), and single target (frags, wrath), execute (wrath) while also having SOME damage mitigation via shields (hardened ward, hurricane/boundless storm, bounder armor), and have the ability to use pets for some damage, cc/distraction and healing.
Killing a lot of people with your 34k Magicka Boundless Storm DoT and spamming wrath while hoping for a frag proc that isn't dodged?
Yeah, we have several CCs to choose from, but if the NB/Templar/DK/Warden is just going to shrug or heal off the damage we're putting out, does it even matter?
What am I supposed to use for skills according to you? Light attack? Or maybe I should slot all pets instead? I've found what works for me.
My KDR (according to the kill counter addon) in Cyrodiil is usually between 5 and 10 and I regularly get kill streaks of 10 to 20. I think those numbers reflect more about my knowledge of Cyrodiil gameplay and being a cautious player than it does about my skill.
Granted I run my sorc with a group most of the time which helps but I have won some 1v1 battles. I've lost some too.
I am happy with that and I would say yes "I'm doing fine"
Good for you - you might be happy killing potatoes in Cyrodiil or rolling in the back of a zerg spamming Wrath, but that doesn't work for everyone and shouldn't be the metric to determine if Sorcs are "just fine in PVP".
My statement wasn't about the skills you're using really, but the low damage output and/or sustain you most likely have in PVP with 34k max magicka and relying on a DoTs like Boundless Storm and Liquid Lightning to hurt your opponents. Those skills aren't going to do enough damage to pressure your opponent (if they're even hitting them), and the only sustain bump you seem to have in your sets is the ~129 magicka recovery from Shacklebreaker. Seems like you'll either run out of either magicka or stamina pretty quickly in any fight against a competent player of similar level in a superior class.3