Conceptual idea - a "fair" DPS test

Lasinagol · November 2018

There have got to be more reliable ways to test dps...I generally practice for ten to twenty minutes a day now on a dummy and I swear that they are usefull. Roto knowledge, skill tweaking, set optimization...but all that means very little if your dead on the floor.

The world bosses from the base game are a great test, they hit hard and have mechanics to watch out for...take someonw to one of them just to even note their reaction works well enough...

Nestor · November 2018

Training dummies are just that, something dumb you can try out your rotation on. The only DPS that matters from a dummy is the before and after. If your DPS is higher than before then your getting better at your rotation/gear/skill choices.

Trying to equate a dummy parse with the real world is just an excerise in exceptions.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

There is nothing cheesy about a dummy DPS parse as long as the testing variables are known. Anyone who says they cant pull good DPS on a dummy but can do it in an actual fight is either delusional or full of it. It's akin to a violinist saying he can play any piece of music flawlessly, but cant perform a basic scale.

Of course DPS dummies dont hit back. Of course they dont move. And of course both of those things make an actual fight harder. But if you cant pull damage when none of those things are happening, no way you are doing it when both are.

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

Agree about the Dummy test. I have never done well on the Test Dummy so just don't give a hoot about DPS parses on it.

Does that mean I can't get good DPS? Oh no. It doesn't. I have soloed every dungeon in game (non DLC) in Normal that has the mechanics for solo player with no death on my Stamina and Magicka characters. (Oh, I did die like 5 times soloing COA2 in Normal) I have soloed several dungeons in Vet as well but with a few deaths here and there. Running Combat Metrics I see what my DPS average is on mob fights and boss fights and I usually get 24K to 40K DPS averages on those boss fights that have no mobs such as the flying squid boss (LOL) in Dark Shade Caverns I. So I don't give a hoot about the Test Dummy parses. They don't fight back, there is no situational awareness, there is nothing to fear about your character dying.

Soloing has little to do with DPS, and soling normal dungeons is not exactly a very high benchmark. An average DPS parse on bosses of 24-40k is a huge range, and likely at least partially a result of huge inconsistencies in your rotation. If you can hit 40k on a boss but not on a dummy, either that boss has a lot of adds or the fight is really short.

DPS dummies are the most objective test of your ability to perform a rotation in this game. If you dont perform well on them, it means your ability to perform said rotation is an issue. It doesn't meant that you might not be very good at staying out of red or following mechanics, but those things in it of themselves do not add up to pulling good DPS. If all you want to do is solo normal dungeons, well it doesnt really matter. If you want to pull good DPS in trial content, well following mechanics only takes your DPS so far. You still have to be able to execute a rotation, which is exactly what a dummy shows you can or cannot do.

zaria · November 2018

RusevCrush wrote: »

Dummy scores serve as a filter. We all complain about the guy spamming light bow attacks in our pug groups. A reasonable dummy requirement prevents this person from wasting everyone else's time in more difficult content we're trying to coordinate.
The problem is the elitists who say ewe you're only pulling 43k.....you should be at 53k. When we all know 43k is perfectly acceptable. The test is fine. We're causing these problems on our own.

This, now for raid guilds setting 50k as an limit if all other does more makes some sense.

Nestor wrote: »

Training dummies are just that, something dumb you can try out your rotation on. The only DPS that matters from a dummy is the before and after. If your DPS is higher than before then your getting better at your rotation/gear/skill choices.

Trying to equate a dummy parse with the real world is just an excerise in exceptions.

This, if you want good dps numbers go to skyreach or do the main quest on an alt.

Note if dummy get bored and walks away your dps is to low.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2018

MJallday wrote: »

This is just a rambling thought/idea for a rainy Monday. Wanted to see what the community thoughts were.

We often see people rubbishing the DPS tests. This is for many reasons

• Its not realistic to a fight
• The dummy doesn’t fight back
• You can just stand there and spam sets
• You can cheese the result
• You can be buffed off others
So what ive done is conceptualize a “fair” DPS test.

So my idea is :
Test needs to be Single Target and Multi-Target. This prevents single target cheese.
Test needs to Simulate Dungeon Trial Situation lifelikeness + Simulate being attacked back. This way you have to slot heals/shields.

this is how i would do it -

Clock starts on entry to an arena
Fight one : 1 Enemy, standard normal reistance, doenst move. 30k health
Fight two : 5 enemys, standard normal resistance, doesn’t move, 30k health, but each stood 3 meters apart
Fight three : 1 Enemy, veteran resistance, 500k health, doesn’t move
Fight four : 1 enemy, world boss, 1m health . Will one shot hit for 17k , will light attack for 5k
Timer ends when boss is dead
End time - Start time = seconds . DPS total = 1,680,000 / seconds

what do people think?

Why not just run VMA. It's longer but basically does the same thing. No secret that those pushing scores in VMA are also generally known for being the top DPS in the game. Your score is gated by both DPS (ST and AOE) and your ability to stay alive. Too complicated? Well, that's what dummies are for.

SirAndy · November 2018

MJallday wrote: »

what do people think?

Pick an easy vet dungeon boss, make your way there *solo*, record the fight with Combat Metrics, post results.

Lets say vet Fungal Grotto I, vFGI is easy enough to solo and the last boss fight has enough mechanics that you'll have to selfbuff, dodge, block and heal and it's drawn out long enough that one has to think about sustain.

I'd rather see that fight as a parse (or video) than any skeleton "fight" ...

PS: Also, good luck with trying to get support from the epeen crowd

Jhalin · November 2018

Back to the old Bloodspawn method

BleedMe_AnOcean · November 2018

zaria wrote: »

BleedMe_AnOcean wrote: »

I'm with others here. DPS checks are unnecessary and naïve, at best. What good does one's DPS do - single target or AoE - if one can't stay alive long enough during the encounter to actually do any damage?

I can maybe see the value in a DPS check if you're in a hardcore trial group & you're beating your head off the same boss repeatedly, but other than that, epeen measurements aren't really important.

True but most who can do good dps are also so skilled they can stay alive.
Most of all its an training tool, how to get an working rotation, who skills to use, combat metric is very nice as it show uptime and how much damage each skill did also if you skipped some.

It can also be demoralizing. remember back before morrowind, CP 250 I think, I knew templars had an simple rotation so I used her over sorcerer who was higher but more complex, found that an macro with an recommended rotation gave me 16K, spamming jabs with Entropy and ele drain gave 15 and way better survival. Spaming dark flare with entropy and drain gave 18 , had to heal an dungeon because of fake healer, templar don't have any dps sets.
But she is afraid for getting banned if SPC proc then questing

Still sucks but not so bad.

I agree, but when we're talking about DPS checks with dummies, mechanics aren't incorporated. We're not breaking CCs. We're not chasing mobs across the room. We're not avoiding crazy AoEs that could one-shot us if we aren't prepared. I suppose it's nice to have some understanding of potential, but aside from that, a dummy parse only tells a fraction of the story unless you can change its behavior and ask it to do different things. At that point, it'd be marginally helpful. We still wouldn't have buffs from our group, etc.

I guess my point is this: I can stand in front of a dummy for two days straight and master my rotation, but things change drastically when I'm in a group setting performing mechanics. I may be able to out DPS 2/3 of Tamriel, but if I can't avoid the flaming vortex of f*** on the ground while I'm casting because I haven't practiced it, what good does a dummy parse really do?

OPs idea is beneficial in that regard, but I think unless it's made to simulate an actual mob or boss fight environment down to the letter, it's still ineffective.

Also, I need to learn to macro. Haha.