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What Does ZOS Want Sorc To Be?
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Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
This is a strange post. I see zero sorcs rushing into battle stacking shields and doing mass damage lol. Which server and platform you play on? There are only a few good sorcs left that I see in Vivec PCNA. Most sorcs have to stay in a group or do their best to stay at the outer range of skill-reach. You get murdered by sorcs often?9 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
How so? Maybe you should check your bufffood before complaining about the sorc getting killed while ressing.Facefister wrote: »Sorc healer is pretty strong.
sorc healer is a joke
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Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't think they are doing a good job with sorcs these days but I'm pretty sure there is at least some idea where sorcs are supposed to go. Look at the latest changes - sorc sturggles with sustain, which skills got cost reduction? Pets. Making pets immortal in trials is another change in the same vein. I think that ZOS wants sorcs to be the pet class. Because let's be honest, non-pet sorc is just a weaker nightblade.
Is it working? Well, not really. Double barring still hurts in PvP and LA rotation on pet-sorc just does not fit that well for PvE.
i wont play a pet sorc
I don’t want to either, and likely a large portion of decent sorcs as well. It doesn’t matter how much they tweak costs, health, speed, etc, pets will always be brain dead.2 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
LOL!3 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭No idea why ppl complain so much for the sorc, it still can hit hard. Recently I was destroyed by one and still can't believe that single damage is possible. If damage/healing received in pvp is cut in half...
Edited by Gargath on November 11, 2018 4:20PMPC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."3 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A pet class.
Get used to it. I abandoned non pet sorc due to sustain issues, and honestly its much better.Edited by karekiz on November 11, 2018 4:23PM1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems that every time Sorcerer finds its place in the game ZOS nerfs it without giving it a clear path of where it wants to go. The abilities being contradictory don't help either.
Sorcs are the CC class? ZOS slowly makes CC less and less useful (Negate used to work on the Hel Ra HM Gargoyles, for example) and nerfs their single target CCs like Rune Cage and Frags
Sorcs are the mobility class? Bolt Escape and Major Expedition have both been severely nerfed
Sorcs are the burst class? Damage nerfs
Sorcs are the tanky class? Shield nerfs
Not to mention, Sorcs are supposed to be the ranged class so why is Boundless Storm a melee range ability while Hurricane is the one with decent range? Should it not be the other way around? If Sorcs are supposed to take damage with their shields, why do they have "block" abilities like Persistence and Bound Armor?
I genuinely think ZOS just does not know what they want Sorcerer to be, as it is having a massive identity crisis right now and the class is designed in such a way where it is either too good or nowhere near good enough
My understanding is that what they don't want sorcerers to be is everything that you've listed, all at once. Maybe I've misunderstood either their intentions or the way they've implemented them, but that's the message I've picked up anyway.Edited by Tandor on November 11, 2018 4:25PM1 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It seems that every time Sorcerer finds its place in the game ZOS nerfs it without giving it a clear path of where it wants to go. The abilities being contradictory don't help either.
Sorcs are the CC class? ZOS slowly makes CC less and less useful (Negate used to work on the Hel Ra HM Gargoyles, for example) and nerfs their single target CCs like Rune Cage and Frags
Sorcs are the mobility class? Bolt Escape and Major Expedition have both been severely nerfed
Sorcs are the burst class? Damage nerfs
Sorcs are the tanky class? Shield nerfs
Not to mention, Sorcs are supposed to be the ranged class so why is Boundless Storm a melee range ability while Hurricane is the one with decent range? Should it not be the other way around? If Sorcs are supposed to take damage with their shields, why do they have "block" abilities like Persistence and Bound Armor?
I genuinely think ZOS just does not know what they want Sorcerer to be, as it is having a massive identity crisis right now and the class is designed in such a way where it is either too good or nowhere near good enough
My understanding is that what they don't want sorcerers to be is everything that you've listed, all at once. Maybe I've misunderstood either their intentions or the way they've implemented them, but that's the message I've picked up anyway.
Well, even if they don't want it to be all of those at once...then why do they not buff the things they have previously nerfed?
If ZOS doesn't want Sorc to be the mobility class as well as the defensive class, then why did they nerf shields without un-nerfing their mobility?Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake0 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The only surviving spec seems to be pets, which was the initial way the class was advertised.
But it’s not good
Double barring is a prohibitively large cost if you run all pets, and leaves a grand total of four bar slots if you don’t run Bound Armor, Daedric Prey has to be on there, Mage’s Wrath is all but required, so is Ward, so they have one slot for an actual choice in abilities.
Lightning Sorc drops Liquid Lightning, Blockade, and then weaves Force Pulse until Frag procs, which 1) drains their mag very quickly 2) is not a playstyle unique to the class
Stam Sorc suffers from the same thing most stam builds suffer from, loading up on everything except class abilities due to lack of stam morphs, with the exception of Hurricane and Crit Surge (which many don’t run anyway)
The only mechanics that still exist unique to Sorcs is significant delayed burst, and single target abilities with secondary AoE effects (such as Scamp, Curse, Wrath, inverse AoE into single target for Storm Atro Ult). Both of which could be expanded upon to better shape a proper identity for Sorcs.
For example, Mines is rarely used outside PvP, why not give it a debuff any target that pops one that increases your damage against that target by some amount. Or, more simply, stick a passive somewhere that gives the Sorc Minor Berserk after hitting something with a class ability. Hell why not both?1 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don’t want to [use pets] either, and likely a large portion of decent sorcs as well. It doesn’t matter how much they tweak costs, health, speed, etc, pets will always be brain dead.
I don't fault the sentiment that some players just don't like using pets, but that doesn't mean that those of us who choose to use them are making a bad choice because the pets are too stupid to be useful. The pets have come a long way and can be very useful and powerful. They serve me well in BGs in particular.
Edited by dpencil1 on November 11, 2018 5:42PM0 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭No idea why ppl complain so much for the sorc, it still can hit hard. Recently I was destroyed by one and still can't believe that single damage is possible. If damage/healing received in pvp is cut in half...
What was your build? My old sorc build had tool tips that high but on average only saw 4-5k damage. The highest I ever got was a 12k frag during the pvp event. I kinda felt bad because I probably wrecked a pve player. That being said nightblades bow attack can hit much much harder.Edited by usmguy1234 on November 11, 2018 5:57PMZaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »No idea why ppl complain so much for the sorc, it still can hit hard. Recently I was destroyed by one and still can't believe that single damage is possible. If damage/healing received in pvp is cut in half...
What was your build? My old sorc build had tool tips that high but on average only saw 4-5k damage. The highest I ever got was a 12k frag during the pvp event. I kinda felt bad because I probably wrecked a pve player. That being said nightblades bow attack can hit much much harder.
Considering the Grand Overlord's Curse hit him for only 5k, and Curse can't be mitigated with block, there's only one fairly obvious explanation, which also explains why the 50 played with the low-rank player:
It was the emperor. Duh.2 -
usmguy1234✭✭✭✭✭
✭usmguy1234 wrote: »No idea why ppl complain so much for the sorc, it still can hit hard. Recently I was destroyed by one and still can't believe that single damage is possible. If damage/healing received in pvp is cut in half...
What was your build? My old sorc build had tool tips that high but on average only saw 4-5k damage. The highest I ever got was a 12k frag during the pvp event. I kinda felt bad because I probably wrecked a pve player. That being said nightblades bow attack can hit much much harder.
Considering the Grand Overlord's Curse hit him for only 5k, and Curse can't be mitigated with block, there's only one fairly obvious explanation, which also explains why the 50 played with the low-rank player:
It was the emperor. Duh.
Well, I'm not trying to draw conclusions which is why I asked for context.Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
Soul Razor- Altmer Magsorc
Les Drago- Redguard Stamdk
Eirius- Altmer Magdk
Stormifeth- Altmer Magplar
Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭usmguy1234 wrote: »usmguy1234 wrote: »No idea why ppl complain so much for the sorc, it still can hit hard. Recently I was destroyed by one and still can't believe that single damage is possible. If damage/healing received in pvp is cut in half...
What was your build? My old sorc build had tool tips that high but on average only saw 4-5k damage. The highest I ever got was a 12k frag during the pvp event. I kinda felt bad because I probably wrecked a pve player. That being said nightblades bow attack can hit much much harder.
Considering the Grand Overlord's Curse hit him for only 5k, and Curse can't be mitigated with block, there's only one fairly obvious explanation, which also explains why the 50 played with the low-rank player:
It was the emperor. Duh.
Well, I'm not trying to draw conclusions which is why I asked for context.
Fair.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
And you are twisting reality again to suit your agenda - as always.
Lately, you've claimed the recent shield nerf was a buff. Something like "the OBLY time a nerf was actually a BUFF", you said.
So what is it? Judging from your shield buff comment, sorcs should be more powerful than pre-Nerfmire. But that wouldn't fit into this discussion here, would it?
At least do us a favor and make up your mind before spilling out nonsense that is always only anti-sorc and never contains any insights.3 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭your class is still valid and does just fine, and it is true that the only time in mmo history that a nerf turned into a buff made you sorcs even Stronger in pvp just happened making you even more powerfull in Pvp now then previously.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »your class is still valid and does just fine, and it is true that the only time in mmo history that a nerf turned into a buff made you sorcs even Stronger in pvp just happened making you even more powerfull in Pvp now then previously.
You still can't explain how it made Sorcs stronger though
You just say things and hope people believe youValrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake7 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭A pet class.
Get used to it. I abandoned non pet sorc due to sustain issues, and honestly its much better.
YUUUUUP!
I got my start running as a petSorc and they were nearly unusable in open world cyrodil but good in duels and IC. This is 3yrs+ ago. I walked away from pets for about 2+yrs. And played normal burst sorc as it was better in PvP and while petSorc did more damage in PVE they died frequently or messed with mechanics. So I did not use them.
Now after all the nerfs and changes and buffing sorcs into one thing then sweeping that away. The one constant has been pets keep getting buff after buff. It seems most magSorcs want to play like a magBlade with streak. SO DO I. But they can't. Sorc has no burst heal and no pressure UNLESS YOU USE PETS. Then critsurge can actually heal you and you have a delayed stun and a burst heal and constant pressure. They made targeting with them a breeze with heavies (if you use lightning or resto) and reduced cost alot. ZOS throughout has been trying to make sorcs the summoner class and we have been begging them to make it the ranged nuke class.
WELL HERE IS THE CROSSROADS FOR SORC MAINS!!!
Go magBlade if you want to be the ranged nuker that we all dream about or stay and sorc and EMBRACE THE PETS. Cause from what I can see through the years it's the only thing ZOS has kept consistent in their sorc vision. Pets pets pets!
I have found my way back on them this patch and with them being viable in PVE and alot better in open world cyrodil. I have been having a blast.
1vX they need work. The Sorcerer has to be very good at micro management. And they will get targeted. But that's not necessarily a bad thing as if your pets are getting targeted that means you aren't. But it's a different type of 1vX where you drop and atro and dance around your summons. It flusters people in a 1vX. And usually allows for escapes. But sometimes they just get rekt and you are left with your pants down. THATS EHEN YOU RESTO ULT AND BOLT THE HECK OUT!
PETS NEED WORK BUT IT IS THE FUTURE THAT ZOS HAS LAYED OUT EMBRACE IT OR MOVE ON. I would have preferred it not to be but I'm a sorc main and thus I shall stick it out.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No idea why ppl complain so much for the sorc, it still can hit hard. Recently I was destroyed by one and still can't believe that single damage is possible. If damage/healing received in pvp is cut in half...
dude probably said f this and did go full glass cannon build. that my plan for this patch. zos wants to make my defense useless then im not going to spec into it.
also not being rude, buteither your a light armor build or your doing something wrong lol the highest that i can get my frag in pve with minor slayer is 34 ish if it crits. frag shouldnt be hitting you that hard unless your running around cyro naked1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »your class is still valid and does just fine, and it is true that the only time in mmo history that a nerf turned into a buff made you sorcs even Stronger in pvp just happened making you even more powerfull in Pvp now then previously.
again, for like the billionth time.....
shields are only stronger in pvp if you swapped out divs for impen and switched either shackle or lich for impreg
which means they are taking a MASSIVE hit to damage and sustain
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »your class is still valid and does just fine, and it is true that the only time in mmo history that a nerf turned into a buff made you sorcs even Stronger in pvp just happened making you even more powerfull in Pvp now then previously.
You still can't explain how it made Sorcs stronger though
You just say things and hope people believe you
no i was very clear in that it is about the shields.
shield stacking was made to be nerfed, and shield strength.
it was not only reverted from the nerf but also it made the shields even Stronger now, in PvP
in PvE they are weaker shields but not in PvP.
Edited by Gilvoth on November 11, 2018 8:31PM0 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
Ummmmmm....stam classes, especially stamblade would beg to differ. They are and have been the kings of everything for awhile now. So yeah. Your statement is BS.
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dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@cpuScientist
I agree wth you. The synergy of a full pet build in BGs is very strong. You basically described my playstyle. Aoe stuns from the Familiar and Atro, neither of which give any warning, easy target focusing through lightning heavy attacks, which also telegraphs which enemies your teammates should target, constant pressure on attackers even while in defensive mode, etc. I've actually been able to dance around my Atro and solo kill 2-3 players. I still die plenty if my group isn't working well together, but in a smart group I usually mop the floor with everyone else. One game recently, I got 7k points with over 20 kills and 20 assists, with like 3 deaths. That match was nuts.
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
Ummmmmm....stam classes, especially stamblade would beg to differ. They are and have been the kings of everything for awhile now. So yeah. Your statement is BS.
i think sorcerers are overpowered.
and you think nightblades are overpowered.
we have different opinion.
nothing wrong with that.0 -
Valrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »your class is still valid and does just fine, and it is true that the only time in mmo history that a nerf turned into a buff made you sorcs even Stronger in pvp just happened making you even more powerfull in Pvp now then previously.
You still can't explain how it made Sorcs stronger though
You just say things and hope people believe you
no i was very clear in that it is about the shields.
shield stacking was made to be nerfed, and shield strength.
it was not only reverted from the nerf but also it made the shields even Stronger now, in PvP
in PvE they are weaker shields but not in PvP.
You still can't explain how they are stronger.dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
Ummmmmm....stam classes, especially stamblade would beg to differ. They are and have been the kings of everything for awhile now. So yeah. Your statement is BS.
i think sorcerers are overpowered.
and you think nightblades are overpowered.
we have different opinion.
nothing wrong with that.
There kind of is when you come into every thread to troll with your "opinion"Valrien Dravic -- Level 50 Dunmeri Sorcerer (EP)
Garahel Dravic -- Level 50 Bosmeri Nightblade (EP)Tamriel Unlimited was a mistake. One Tamriel was a bigger mistake5 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
Ummmmmm....stam classes, especially stamblade would beg to differ. They are and have been the kings of everything for awhile now. So yeah. Your statement is BS.
i think sorcerers are overpowered.
and you think nightblades are overpowered.
we have different opinion.
nothing wrong with that.
except one of those 2 just took giant nerfs to everything that gave their class a reason to be played over the other and the other is still king of everything.
and some people are still here like yep sorcs op, please ignore my class * proceeds to effortlessly ambush incap players while talking and barely paying attention* ya dont look at my class devs. were weak.... look at those sorcs and their shields
oh and they can still gank too....... one of those to classes can no longer do that
also how do you not think stam nb isnt op, you think mag sorc is op and they werent even first before these changes
if the devs werent a bunch of stamblades that class would have been nerfed into the ground ages ago6 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭dwemer_paleologist wrote: »Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »dwemer_paleologist wrote: »i dont know about battlegrounds, but right now in pvp in cryodiil you sorcerers RACE and RUN immediately into battle and have shields still stacked and mass damage just as always and we see allot of dead people around you, yet, this thread would indicate otherwise.
you received nerfs just like the rest of ALL of us.
we all suffered changes.
just because you are not as mass KING and complete dominant like you have been for the past 5 years doesn't mean your trash, it just means you have been brought inline with the rest of us and class balanced.
Ummmmmm....stam classes, especially stamblade would beg to differ. They are and have been the kings of everything for awhile now. So yeah. Your statement is BS.
i think sorcerers are overpowered.
and you think nightblades are overpowered.
we have different opinion.
nothing wrong with that.
I play a stamblade. Religiously. It isn't my opinion. I know it is overpowered compared to everything else. I'm just not going to come to a game forum and lie about it.
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