Let's talk about ESO's engine?

Maulclaw · November 2018

When it comes to MMOs, the engines most developers ending up choosing aren't really the best. They might accomplish the majority of goals that these teams have in mind but at a cost. Here are some examples:

Star Wars: The Old Republic rolled with the Hero Engine. Even though the game managed to accomplish what BioWare had in mind, the engine itself is dated and has brought more problems than solutions over the years.
Guild Wars 2 is still relying on its predecessor's original engine, which leads to an incredible mess of a code. This means that it took ArenaNet almost a decade to come up with "sitting on chairs" animations. It works fine for environments, but it's rather sketchy for mechanics and especially animations.
TERA Online, Blade & Soul and other eastern MMOs that used Unreal Engine 3. Apparently, this engine has a ton of issues when it comes to optimization and forces the developers to use cheap tricks to hide their games' worst textures.

What about The Elder Scrolls Online? What engine is ZOS using to work on their game? ESO seems like it's doing its thing fine, for the exception of lag. Even though I play on the European servers, my ping is worse than the one I'd get on the north american counterparts GW2, SWTOR, and TERA. I do know they were planning to use Hero Engine at first, but then switched over to their own engine down the line? What do you think are the flaws of this so-called new engine?

AzraelKrieg · November 2018

The engine they are using is a proprietary one developed in-house. Seems to work fine. Works better than the engine Bethesda are using for FO76

PouletRico · November 2018

Maulclaw wrote: »

ESO seems like it's doing its thing fine, for the exception of lag.

Oh boy. Do you even play that game ?

Swomp23 · November 2018

Apparently (I wasn't there) a couple of weeks after release, there was no lag at all. Even Cyrodiil's massive fights were as smooth as a baby's butt skin. But the game was plagued with cheat engine users beyond any common measure. PPl clipping through theground to be untargettable, massive run speed, etc. etc. Then ZOS added a multitude of countermeasure to keep check engines in check. Then it became the lag monster we know today.

DMuehlhausen · November 2018

Funny when you talk about how an engine is dated nearly 8 years after a game came out. SWTOR looked amazing and was ahead of it's time when it launched.

todokete · November 2018

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

MaxwellC · November 2018

Imagine if this game used Unreal Engine 4.... my goodness it would be amazing. Bethesda tends to stick with their own engine which has been used since skyrim and probably oblivion.

todokete · November 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

Imagine if this game used Unreal Engine 4.... my goodness it would be amazing. Bethesda tends to stick with their own engine which has been used since skyrim and probably oblivion.

I'd be playing that rn

Xundiin · November 2018

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Elsonso · November 2018

Xundiin wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Actually, if you install ESO, there is a Hero Engine splash screen. I just installed it on a new computer about a month ago.

todokete · November 2018

Xundiin wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Are you in an echo chamber? You literally see a dev from Hero Engine confirming this and you still deny it even when everytime you launch the game you get the Hero engine logo and the Havoc one

Rungar · November 2018

it doesnt matter as the lag is due to cheater and ddos countermeasures. Cant blame zos for that.

the only thing the engine fails miserably at is going underwater which cant be done in eso.

Brittany_Joy · November 2018

I don't think the engine really matters. Instead it is ZOS's commitment to providing a better experience for players.

SirAndy · November 2018

todokete wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Are you in an echo chamber? You literally see a dev from Hero Engine confirming this and you still deny it even when everytime you launch the game you get the Hero engine logo and the Havoc one

I think there is some confusion that needs clearing up:
ESO is using a proprietary engine that is based on the hero engine, but by now has been heavily modified.

So in short, the correct answer to the question "Does ESO use the Hero engine" is:
yes and no ...

qbit · November 2018

I’m going to guess Unity. Or probably GameMaker

qbit · November 2018

Rungar wrote: »

it doesnt matter as the lag is due to cheater and ddos countermeasures. Cant blame zos for that.

the only thing the engine fails miserably at is going underwater which cant be done in eso.

You can absolutely blame ZOS for that. Their countermeasures need to be properly designed to not lag the game. To take it to the level of absurdity: if the fix requires a complete rewrite of the game’s code, then it is still ZOS’s fault for not doing that.

Yes, even if failure is unavoidable, it’s still your fault if you didn’t succeed. This is lost on modern society.

Revokus · November 2018

You can see the remnants of the hero engine ZOS used first before modifying it to their own. Proof : Bugs that they fix but always end up coming back or when they fix something and something else unrelated breaks at the same time. This was Swtor hero engine in a nutshell..I see the same thing happening here like when I played swtor. Other games never saw these hilarious bugs coming back like pants disappearing or combat bugs coming back a patch later just to name a few.

Wifeaggro13 · November 2018

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

The engine they are using is a proprietary one developed in-house. Seems to work fine. Works better than the engine Bethesda are using for FO76

lol /cancel my pre order

Xundiin · November 2018

todokete wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Are you in an echo chamber? You literally see a dev from Hero Engine confirming this and you still deny it even when everytime you launch the game you get the Hero engine logo and the Havoc one

Just logged in not more than 1 hr ago.... turned splash screen back on just to check before posting..... no Hero Engine Splash screen.... maybe you should get your eyes checked.

Xundiin · November 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Actually, if you install ESO, there is a Hero Engine splash screen. I just installed it on a new computer about a month ago.

Yes, when you do the fresh install since the game was designed on the hero engine. if you launch the game after the install, there is no splash screen. if they were still using the Hero Engine they are required to credit it, hence splash screens. The fact that a HE dev states that ESO uses it and the fact that ZOS says they don't makes me question who benefits from the lie more? The engine dev or the game dev. Pretty sure the engine team gets more benefit for saying ESO runs their engine than ESO gets from saying they don't.

Rungar · November 2018

qbit wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

it doesnt matter as the lag is due to cheater and ddos countermeasures. Cant blame zos for that.

the only thing the engine fails miserably at is going underwater which cant be done in eso.

You can absolutely blame ZOS for that. Their countermeasures need to be properly designed to not lag the game. To take it to the level of absurdity: if the fix requires a complete rewrite of the game’s code, then it is still ZOS’s fault for not doing that.

Yes, even if failure is unavoidable, it’s still your fault if you didn’t succeed. This is lost on modern society.

perhaps they deemed it not worth fixing. Dungeons and overland have no lag.

Nebthet78 · November 2018

Maulclaw wrote: »

When it comes to MMOs, the engines most developers ending up choosing aren't really the best. They might accomplish the majority of goals that these teams have in mind but at a cost. Here are some examples:
Star Wars: The Old Republic rolled with the Hero Engine. Even though the game managed to accomplish what BioWare had in mind, the engine itself is dated and has brought more problems than solutions over the years.

Guild Wars 2 is still relying on its predecessor's original engine, which leads to an incredible mess of a code. This means that it took ArenaNet almost a decade to come up with "sitting on chairs" animations. It works fine for environments, but it's rather sketchy for mechanics and especially animations.

TERA Online, Blade & Soul and other eastern MMOs that used Unreal Engine 3. Apparently, this engine has a ton of issues when it comes to optimization and forces the developers to use cheap tricks to hide their games' worst textures.

What about The Elder Scrolls Online? What engine is ZOS using to work on their game? ESO seems like it's doing its thing fine, for the exception of lag. Even though I play on the European servers, my ping is worse than the one I'd get on the north american counterparts GW2, SWTOR, and TERA. I do know they were planning to use Hero Engine at first, but then switched over to their own engine down the line? What do you think are the flaws of this so-called new engine?

When ESO was first released it was using Hero Engine and it was advertised as such when you loaded up the screen before you logged in. About the time of One Tamriel being released, they removed the Hero Engine reference from the loading to logon screens.

Rain_Greyraven · November 2018

If they actually used the proprietary Hero engine, they would have no issues with Cloaks.

I know this because I spent some time as a consultant for Simutronics way back when they were developing the canceled MMo Hero's Journey.

As a matter of fact many things that the ZoS devs say are "impossible" for the engine to do due to lag can be easily done if they were actually using the Hero engine.

Here is some shaky cam footage of a hero's journey mmo that was taken back in 2006

zaria · November 2018

Xundiin wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Xundiin wrote: »

todokete wrote: »

The hero engine screen comes up every time you launch the game
This article is from June: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine/p2

Except if they were using Hero Engine still they'd have to have the hero splash screen still..... which they don't.

Actually, if you install ESO, there is a Hero Engine splash screen. I just installed it on a new computer about a month ago.

Yes, when you do the fresh install since the game was designed on the hero engine. if you launch the game after the install, there is no splash screen. if they were still using the Hero Engine they are required to credit it, hence splash screens. The fact that a HE dev states that ESO uses it and the fact that ZOS says they don't makes me question who benefits from the lie more? The engine dev or the game dev. Pretty sure the engine team gets more benefit for saying ESO runs their engine than ESO gets from saying they don't.

As I understand Hero engine was only used early in developement for testing until they got their own engine up an running.
They might have used the development tools later too.
However it was not launched on Hero engine, changing engine is an massive undertaking and its why Fallout and TES uses creation engine.

So yes ZoS is on the Hero engine customer list. And its possible that they use development tools from it in that case they have an active license.

MLGProPlayer · November 2018

They're using a modified Hero engine and it sucks. Optimization is horrible, making a constant 60+ FPS impossible on the best hardware out there.

Having said that, I commend them on the job they've done. They've made a decent looking game considering the tools at their disposal.

I'd love to see a new MMO use a modern engine. Maybe ZOS' next MMO project?

Alcast · November 2018

ESO uses a self developed engine BASED on the HERO Engine.

I think even ZOS realises that the game engine is causing way more problems then good things. At this point, every new DLC the game legit breaks even tho ZOS does not touch anything. FPS is completely *** and latency is so poop, could think the servers are located on the moon.

I heard people say that the game will fail because of the engine. I would not say the game failed, but it is definitely holding the game back.

Bajatar · November 2018

Everyone has their own idea what makes a "good" engine.

To me the biggest flaw are loading times. Even off an SSD it takes minutes until you're in-game. Loading times are so bad I'm not going to sit through them. I usually do something else and forget to check back in time. Thus leading to an endless cycle of loading screens and getting logged out for being idle.

Traveling to the hundreds of guild traders or for quests can become quite tedious. At least the game doesn't crash on Alt+Tab. So there's that

Salvas_Aren · November 2018

Since the performance of guilds is quite bad while overland content is pretty doable, I assume, they use hamsters of different age to power their wheels.