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Random Veteran Dungeon - Let ESO+ members unselect DLC please
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TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭I for one like DLC dungeons and I feel good when I roll a random vet and it's DLC. They're more exciting. Let's be real, no dungeon on normal is a challenge to anyone that's CP. And if by some stretch you're 810 and still can't clear normal Scalecaller for example look up a guide. Vet DLC dungeons are a different story though. But why are you rolling a random vet in that case then?0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is why I'm not renewing my ESO+ when it comes time for the Undaunted Dungeon Event. I just really hate how looong the DLC dungeons are and would rather avoid them when I'm trying to do dailies on like 10 characters
Ooooohhh....I hadn't thought about that.
OTOH this might be my option to actually have people essentially "trapped" and maybe slightly actually willing to listen/explain things to me when I say I've not done these and could they pretty please explain what the strategies are.
Now, if it's not a group of people I know....other than a few really lovely and helpful teachers (I still recall an ab-so-F-ing-lutely stunning Tank who basically walked three newbies [me and two friends] through Cradle of Shadows a while ago) anyway few take the time to really teach.
I always ask if there is someone doing the quest, wanting a review of mechanics, everything.
So I guess mixed hopes/fears/fingers crossed for that event.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Uviryth✭✭✭✭✭But, but Veteran DLCdungeons are soooo much fuuuuuuuuuun, according to other Threads I read the last couple of days. Everyone loves to be able to play the same dungeon for 3 hours, with a gazillion oneshotmechanics and bulletsponges at every corner!
How can this be? This Thread is an outrage!!!!1232 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭But, but Veteran DLCdungeons are soooo much fuuuuuuuuuun, according to other Threads I read the last couple of days. Everyone loves to be able to play the same dungeon for 3 hours, with a gazillion oneshotmechanics and bulletsponges at every corner!
How can this be? This Thread is an outrage!!!!123
You haven't read those threads closely enough or you would've understood two things:
a) Those DLC dungeons are totally easy and a walk in the park and you can do them solo and naked and everyone disagreeing is just a total whiner!
b) They're there for a reason because if you have the audacity to queue for a random dungeon YOU MUST SUFFER! Because "random" in English means "not fun"!4 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are people rolling random vet if it's just for dailies anyway? You know the risk of rolling a DLC and the XP rewards are the same for normal as they are for vet. If you know all that and still choose to go ahead, whatever happens to you is your own fault.0 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭People keep talking about this "risk" of getting a harder dungeon when going for daily random. Its such a nonsensical argument.
Read these words carefully: Why should there be a greater risk of getting a harder dungeon(with much lower success rate) by being an ESO+ member compared to someone who isn't supporting the game getting to run the vanilla dungeons(much higher success rate).
Its completely baffling to me, this is such an easy fix. Random Vet Base Game daily and a NEW Random Vet DLC daily. WOWOW.Edited by Jakx on November 7, 2018 5:02PMJoined September 20130 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭People keep talking about this "risk" of getting a harder dungeon when going for daily random. Its such a nonsensical argument.
Read these words carefully: Why should there be a greater risk of getting a harder dungeon(with much lower success rate) by being an ESO+ member compared to someone who isn't supporting the game getting to run the vanilla dungeons(much higher success rate).
Its completely baffling to me, this is such an easy fix. Random Vet Base Game daily and a NEW Random Vet DLC daily. WOWOW.
Whether or not current setup is ideal or not (it isn't) is immaterial. The fact remains that we can randomly roll vet dlc dungeons right now. I agree with you 100% that they should be split up in the future but as for right now I'm baffled as to why players are actively picking random vet and then acting shocked or upset when they get vet moonhunter keep and can't clear it in a timely manner or even at all.0 -
bentmer✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »People keep talking about this "risk" of getting a harder dungeon when going for daily random. Its such a nonsensical argument.
Read these words carefully: Why should there be a greater risk of getting a harder dungeon(with much lower success rate) by being an ESO+ member compared to someone who isn't supporting the game getting to run the vanilla dungeons(much higher success rate).
Its completely baffling to me, this is such an easy fix. Random Vet Base Game daily and a NEW Random Vet DLC daily. WOWOW.
Whether or not current setup is ideal or not (it isn't) is immaterial. The fact remains that we can randomly roll vet dlc dungeons right now. I agree with you 100% that they should be split up in the future but as for right now I'm baffled as to why players are actively picking random vet and then acting shocked or upset when they get vet moonhunter keep and can't clear it in a timely manner or even at all.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am getting an entirely different interpretation from this thread than you are. From what I can tell, the fact that you can potentially get the much harder DLC vet dungeons is serving as such a huge deterrent that most people are avoiding doing so in the present and future. Maybe, if there was an option to opt out then more of these people would queue up for it then. People are using their past bad experiences with random vet dungeons to explain why it's such a deterrent and not because they are still queueing up for random vets and expecting a different outcome.
In my opinion, they should do what they do with PvP and rewards of the worthy. The first time you complete any dungeon, whether it be normal or vet (like if you're doing an undaunted pledge), they should just give you the xp bonus and the bag of goodies. Of course, that would probably not encourage people to try out new dungeons anymore which is probably the reason for the random dungeon rewards and why they won't change it's structure.
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This SHOULD NOT be ESO+ only.
Everyone should be able to select whether they want dlc included. People do own the dlc without ESO+Edited by Katahdin on November 7, 2018 9:11PMBeta tester November 20131 -
neverwalk✭✭✭✭ZOS needs to give credit/completion in dungeons where someone gets pulled into dungeon where group is on last boss, new person gets credit for last boss only=must relog for this same damm dungeon to get completion to get key and crystals.0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thanoscopter wrote: »The reality of the Random Group Finder is that a big portion of the groups I join are 2 DPS and one healer stuck at a random boss in a DLC dungeon. Today I queue random as a tank and I get put in random White Gold Tower despite it not even being the pledge. It was a group who was stuck at Planar Inhibitor waiting for a tank. They said their tank "had to eat" which was a warning sign that maybe I should have left but I went to help them anyway.
Every time I used a door to get closer to the group I got a 3 to 5 minute load screen...that's a new one. They patiently waited, but when I finally got to the boss it was clear they didn't have the mechanics or DPS necessary to beat the boss. Instead of fighting one boss, I was trying to tank an endless Army of Daedra. Multiple tries, then the people started leaving...I think how I already beat this boss and didn't need a darn thing from this dungeon except the experience.
So how is it fair that someone paying for an ESO+ membership gets forced to wipe or "pick up the slack" in DLC dungeons? This is while the non-paying player gets to breeze through a Fungal Grotto I while I'm stuck wiping to Planar Inhibitor or getting thrown into a half-completed Moon Hunter Keeps to get cannibalized by Mylenne Moon-Caller.
I'm sure some people will tell me to just leave and take the cooldown but the game shouldn't be like this...we desperately need the block DLC option. The more difficult DLC vet dungeons that come out the worse that group finder seems to be getting.
I've made threads about this in the past myself.
They should definitely give players the option to opt out of DLC dungeons when applying for a random. This is something that's already available to players who don't subscribe - and it actually ends up hurting players who are wanting to do DLC dungeons, because they have to frequently deal with players dropping out of the party.Edited by Jeremy on November 8, 2018 12:01AM1 -
thanoscopter✭✭✭Thanks for all the responses although some of them weren't helpful such as saying "random means random" or asking why people are queuing random vet dungeons. The point of this thread remains true, the ESO+ members are getting thrown into vet DLC dungeons that are a often a dead end and often require leaving or wasting hours of time to complete. This is while non-subscribing players get to enjoy easy and pretty much guaranteed reward every time they queue for a vet random. I did not see a valid counterargument which proves this fact wrong.
I've been doing random vet dungeons on a daily basis to increase my CP, get transmute crystals, while often getting a pledge dungeon and level up my undaunted on my multiple tanks in one fell swoop. There's a lot of incentive to continue queuing up for these random veteran dungeons. Every day however I have had delays in my progress due to the vet DLC dungeons being in my random pool; today here are the ones I got for comparison.
First one I got a half completed Banished Cells I that didn't get me the pledge but got me the Reward in less than 5 minutes. You see, in this case, even if there were some initial difficulties I know I can complete or even solo this dungeon on Vet with my tank if need be. That's why I'd always stick around for these. Now compare that to the next one I got...
Second one was a Vet Bloodroot Forge which is not even the pledge for today that looked to be stuck on the first boss with CP 300-400 people. One guy said "please stop leaving, I need something here" right after I joined as I was considering giving them a chance but also considering the responses in this thread. Ya know, being asked to stay before even being greeted with a welcome is a red flag. It implies multiple players before me decided it wasn't worth their time and there were likely problems with the mechanics.
I took the cooldown, requeued, got vet VoM and it was a speed clear for the reward and having a chance of the motif. That seemed like a much better investment of my time than a potential wipefest. I reckon that Bloodroot group wasn't even to the second boss by the time my new team had VoM cleared and the reward in hand.
Edited by thanoscopter on November 8, 2018 12:40AM1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This is why I'm not renewing my ESO+ when it comes time for the Undaunted Dungeon Event. I just really hate how looong the DLC dungeons are and would rather avoid them when I'm trying to do dailies on like 10 characters
Ooooohhh....I hadn't thought about that.
OTOH this might be my option to actually have people essentially "trapped" and maybe slightly actually willing to listen/explain things to me when I say I've not done these and could they pretty please explain what the strategies are.
Now, if it's not a group of people I know....other than a few really lovely and helpful teachers (I still recall an ab-so-F-ing-lutely stunning Tank who basically walked three newbies [me and two friends] through Cradle of Shadows a while ago) anyway few take the time to really teach.
I always ask if there is someone doing the quest, wanting a review of mechanics, everything.
So I guess mixed hopes/fears/fingers crossed for that event.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »You could just select Specific Dungeons and skip the DLCs.
But then you couldn't get the special rewards for the Daily Random Dungeon, which has an additional reward to go with the risk of getting a harder dungeon.
The random daily does NOT come with additional rewards for getting a harder dungeon, rather ESO + rewards paying players with the risk of getting a harder dungeon and / or spending more time for the same rewards a non ESO + player gets for running fast and simple base dungeons.
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. He is saying you could select your dungeon instead of doing random but you will not get the reward. If you want to get the reward you gotta risk getting the harder dungeons.
I'm lucky because a guild mate likes creating new characters so he always has a low level character available to do the random daily on. I join him and things go smooth.
That is just not true. You don't have to risk getting a DLC dungeon for your random if you don't buy them and don't sub. This is why the system is broken. It can be a penalty on those who sub compared to people who buy the game for $10 and never spend another cent.
So stop saying people have to risk getting a DLC dungeon to get the random rewards. That isn't true. Only the more loyal customers have that penalty, which seems like a poor implementation to me.
There is a comment in this discussion where someone didn't renew their ESO+ to avoid having to do DLC dungeons during the Undaunted event. That sounds like something that needs fixing. Wish I had thought of that before doing a larger sub package.
I have no doubt that at some point somebody probably has in fact done just that, but the argument is lacking. All of this is over the reward. We arent forced into DLC dungeons, we choose this. We can at any time select any dungeon we would like omitting the DLCs.
I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.
when it comes to undaunted event? yes. becasue the ONLY way to get the undaunted bag + event ticket? is to complete a RANDOM. (and I just happen to be another person who canceled my subscription for the duration of undaunted event. lucky for me, mine runs out 1 day before event starts, so I'll only have to live without craft bag for a week. as trade offs go? its more then worth it. and isn't THAT a shame?
my suggestion to fix this thing is to either create a separate queue for DLC dungeons or better yet - make them premade only.
and before complaints about pugging pledges start... how successful is DLC pledge pugging without creating group in advance is exactly? I would bet - not very. oh its possible. sometimes you get lucky. but success chance is slim. and plus.. if you are going specifically for pledges, I would bet, you are NOT queueing up for a random.
in another thread I brought up that other game and how it does mythic dungeons. to explain - mythic dungeons are higher difficulty dungeons that actualy come with scaling difficulty and they are not part of random queue. premade only. finishing one comes with extra rewards - higher difficulty = better rewards. seems to be working out pretty great. IMO something to learn from.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Why are people rolling random vet if it's just for dailies anyway? You know the risk of rolling a DLC and the XP rewards are the same for normal as they are for vet. If you know all that and still choose to go ahead, whatever happens to you is your own fault.
those things are almost as bad on normal. yep. getting a DLC dungeon while you are not even lvl 50 with other not lvl 50 people is just... painful.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »It really is a great idea to offer the ability to do a random of non dlc dungeons and be able to choose doing a random of any and all dungeons.
Of course, including the DLC dungeons, including having access to those dungeons, should provide a higher reward.
The other way to look at it is if someone does not include the DLC dungeons they would get a smaller reward since they took less risk. This would include those that do not have access since that is the only way to be fair.
Random of all dungeons = Gold Rewards. Something higher tier than the current purple.
Randon excluding the DLC would be purple rewards.
Of course just make make the DLC reward the current purple would work and non DLC would be the blue quality.
Now, if you think Zos would permit players to exclude DLC dungeons in the random and get the same reward, that is not thinking this through clearly.
And people like you always forget, that non-subbers will never get the risk to be thrown into a dlc dungeon (sure, if they had not bought the dlc) and get the same rewards.
So all non-subbers would get less rewards with your idea, which is BS, imo.
People like me? LOL.
I am bring realistic, logical. If you really think Zos would have made it so players could deselect the DLC dungeons and still get the same reward then I apologize for bringing in a dose of reality.
You suggest it is BS that non subs would get less rewards, they do as it is. They choose to not have access to the DLCs, the gear that comes from the DLCs that is BoP. They choose to not get the pets, skins and other perks that come from completing achievements they do not have access to.
It is not BS. It is reality and their choice.
I dont care about achivements, gear, pets and stuff vom dlc dungeons. i wouldnt buy a dungeon dlc in their current state if they would only cost 10 crowns. but i am forced into them in a random daily dungeons because i sub.
Fabulous. It still does not make sense that Zos would offer a means to take less risk and still give the same reward. That is where my suggestion comes in as the solution that Zos would likely take in some fashion if they ever permitted us to deselect the DLC dungeons with the random.
In the mean time, you can easily avoid the DLC dungeons by queueing up with someone who does not have access to the DLCs.
One time again: ZOS offers the same reward for non-subbers without that DLCs. Why should i be punished for subbing?
I already explained this very clearly. I think you are just being argumentative.
In fact I have explained the solution that Zos would logically take in some fashion (seems I have already said this). In that you would be able to deselect the DLC dungeons and get the same reward that those that lack access get. Wow. You are not punished.
Of course, those that select the greater challenge possibility will get a greater reward. OMG, seems so rational and logical.
The issue is that there is a greater risk of a more difficult dungeon, but when you queue, if you finish, the reward is always the same.
I fully understand this. That is why I suggested a greater reward for those who would include the DLC dungeons into the random.
It really makes sense and my point in my first post I made in this thread addressed that directly. Give those who would choose the DLCs to be included a greater reward than those who would choose to exclude them by choice in the GF of by choice in what they have paid to access.
I really do not understand why anyone would object to such a think since it is both logical and I dare say should be expected.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »It really is a great idea to offer the ability to do a random of non dlc dungeons and be able to choose doing a random of any and all dungeons.
Of course, including the DLC dungeons, including having access to those dungeons, should provide a higher reward.
The other way to look at it is if someone does not include the DLC dungeons they would get a smaller reward since they took less risk. This would include those that do not have access since that is the only way to be fair.
Random of all dungeons = Gold Rewards. Something higher tier than the current purple.
Randon excluding the DLC would be purple rewards.
Of course just make make the DLC reward the current purple would work and non DLC would be the blue quality.
Now, if you think Zos would permit players to exclude DLC dungeons in the random and get the same reward, that is not thinking this through clearly.
And people like you always forget, that non-subbers will never get the risk to be thrown into a dlc dungeon (sure, if they had not bought the dlc) and get the same rewards.
So all non-subbers would get less rewards with your idea, which is BS, imo.
People like me? LOL.
I am bring realistic, logical. If you really think Zos would have made it so players could deselect the DLC dungeons and still get the same reward then I apologize for bringing in a dose of reality.
You suggest it is BS that non subs would get less rewards, they do as it is. They choose to not have access to the DLCs, the gear that comes from the DLCs that is BoP. They choose to not get the pets, skins and other perks that come from completing achievements they do not have access to.
It is not BS. It is reality and their choice.
I dont care about achivements, gear, pets and stuff vom dlc dungeons. i wouldnt buy a dungeon dlc in their current state if they would only cost 10 crowns. but i am forced into them in a random daily dungeons because i sub.
Fabulous. It still does not make sense that Zos would offer a means to take less risk and still give the same reward. That is where my suggestion comes in as the solution that Zos would likely take in some fashion if they ever permitted us to deselect the DLC dungeons with the random.
In the mean time, you can easily avoid the DLC dungeons by queueing up with someone who does not have access to the DLCs.
One time again: ZOS offers the same reward for non-subbers without that DLCs. Why should i be punished for subbing?
I already explained this very clearly. I think you are just being argumentative.
In fact I have explained the solution that Zos would logically take in some fashion (seems I have already said this). In that you would be able to deselect the DLC dungeons and get the same reward that those that lack access get. Wow. You are not punished.
Of course, those that select the greater challenge possibility will get a greater reward. OMG, seems so rational and logical.
The issue is that there is a greater risk of a more difficult dungeon, but when you queue, if you finish, the reward is always the same.
I fully understand this. That is why I suggested a greater reward for those who would include the DLC dungeons into the random.
It really makes sense and my point in my first post I made in this thread addressed that directly. Give those who would choose the DLCs to be included a greater reward than those who would choose to exclude them by choice in the GF of by choice in what they have paid to access.
I really do not understand why anyone would object to such a think since it is both logical and I dare say should be expected.
becasue I think better, fairer option would be to have a completely separate queue for DLC dungeons ONLY.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
BuddyAces✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Why are people rolling random vet if it's just for dailies anyway? You know the risk of rolling a DLC and the XP rewards are the same for normal as they are for vet. If you know all that and still choose to go ahead, whatever happens to you is your own fault.
those things are almost as bad on normal. yep. getting a DLC dungeon while you are not even lvl 50 with other not lvl 50 people is just... painful.
What is the lvl req for dlc ones? Is it 45 or was it changed?They nerfed magsorcs so hard stamsorcs felt it,lol - Somber97866
I'm blown away by the utter stupidity I see here on the daily. - Wrekkedd0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭I could not agree more. I actually consider unsubbing so I could avoid them; I may do this at some point when I stop farming and crafting which I most likely will at some point. Then I don't need the infinite crafting bag, but just do daily dungeons. Then eso+ becomes a burden and why should I pay for that?0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »It really is a great idea to offer the ability to do a random of non dlc dungeons and be able to choose doing a random of any and all dungeons.
Of course, including the DLC dungeons, including having access to those dungeons, should provide a higher reward.
The other way to look at it is if someone does not include the DLC dungeons they would get a smaller reward since they took less risk. This would include those that do not have access since that is the only way to be fair.
Random of all dungeons = Gold Rewards. Something higher tier than the current purple.
Randon excluding the DLC would be purple rewards.
Of course just make make the DLC reward the current purple would work and non DLC would be the blue quality.
Now, if you think Zos would permit players to exclude DLC dungeons in the random and get the same reward, that is not thinking this through clearly.
And people like you always forget, that non-subbers will never get the risk to be thrown into a dlc dungeon (sure, if they had not bought the dlc) and get the same rewards.
So all non-subbers would get less rewards with your idea, which is BS, imo.
People like me? LOL.
I am bring realistic, logical. If you really think Zos would have made it so players could deselect the DLC dungeons and still get the same reward then I apologize for bringing in a dose of reality.
You suggest it is BS that non subs would get less rewards, they do as it is. They choose to not have access to the DLCs, the gear that comes from the DLCs that is BoP. They choose to not get the pets, skins and other perks that come from completing achievements they do not have access to.
It is not BS. It is reality and their choice.
I dont care about achivements, gear, pets and stuff vom dlc dungeons. i wouldnt buy a dungeon dlc in their current state if they would only cost 10 crowns. but i am forced into them in a random daily dungeons because i sub.
Fabulous. It still does not make sense that Zos would offer a means to take less risk and still give the same reward. That is where my suggestion comes in as the solution that Zos would likely take in some fashion if they ever permitted us to deselect the DLC dungeons with the random.
In the mean time, you can easily avoid the DLC dungeons by queueing up with someone who does not have access to the DLCs.
One time again: ZOS offers the same reward for non-subbers without that DLCs. Why should i be punished for subbing?
Probably because unlike you, ZOS does not regard the ability to run ALL of the dungeons in the game as a punishment. ZOS knows they are harder and thus has no reason to deliberately limit the pool of people able to run them. Inagine trying to PUG a DLC pledge only to wait a long time because people opted out.
You seem to be in pursuit of the Daily Quick 'N Easy Random Dungeon. There are in game methods available for you to get that, including the good ol' "leave group, wait 15 minutes, hope to get lucky next time" method.
There's an even more effective method, but it requires to you to behave like a jerk; queue as tank and if you get a DLC dungeon tell the other group members you "have to go make a coffee prolly take 5 min" then let them kick you. Or change to light armor, play like a moron, and pull everything and let yourself die immeditaly. You'll quickly get kicked and wont have to wait the 15 min. Im not encouraging to do this, im simpyl spelling out the ridicolousness in the system that I see abused everyday.Edited by Jayman1000 on November 8, 2018 3:19PM0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agenericname wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »You could just select Specific Dungeons and skip the DLCs.
But then you couldn't get the special rewards for the Daily Random Dungeon, which has an additional reward to go with the risk of getting a harder dungeon.
The random daily does NOT come with additional rewards for getting a harder dungeon, rather ESO + rewards paying players with the risk of getting a harder dungeon and / or spending more time for the same rewards a non ESO + player gets for running fast and simple base dungeons.
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. He is saying you could select your dungeon instead of doing random but you will not get the reward. If you want to get the reward you gotta risk getting the harder dungeons.
I'm lucky because a guild mate likes creating new characters so he always has a low level character available to do the random daily on. I join him and things go smooth.
That is just not true. You don't have to risk getting a DLC dungeon for your random if you don't buy them and don't sub. This is why the system is broken. It can be a penalty on those who sub compared to people who buy the game for $10 and never spend another cent.
So stop saying people have to risk getting a DLC dungeon to get the random rewards. That isn't true. Only the more loyal customers have that penalty, which seems like a poor implementation to me.
There is a comment in this discussion where someone didn't renew their ESO+ to avoid having to do DLC dungeons during the Undaunted event. That sounds like something that needs fixing. Wish I had thought of that before doing a larger sub package.
I have no doubt that at some point somebody probably has in fact done just that, but the argument is lacking. All of this is over the reward. We arent forced into DLC dungeons, we choose this. We can at any time select any dungeon we would like omitting the DLCs.
I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.
when it comes to undaunted event? yes. becasue the ONLY way to get the undaunted bag + event ticket? is to complete a RANDOM. (and I just happen to be another person who canceled my subscription for the duration of undaunted event. lucky for me, mine runs out 1 day before event starts, so I'll only have to live without craft bag for a week. as trade offs go? its more then worth it. and isn't THAT a shame?
my suggestion to fix this thing is to either create a separate queue for DLC dungeons or better yet - make them premade only.
and before complaints about pugging pledges start... how successful is DLC pledge pugging without creating group in advance is exactly? I would bet - not very. oh its possible. sometimes you get lucky. but success chance is slim. and plus.. if you are going specifically for pledges, I would bet, you are NOT queueing up for a random.
in another thread I brought up that other game and how it does mythic dungeons. to explain - mythic dungeons are higher difficulty dungeons that actualy come with scaling difficulty and they are not part of random queue. premade only. finishing one comes with extra rewards - higher difficulty = better rewards. seems to be working out pretty great. IMO something to learn from.
The craft bag is only part of the equation. The craft bag as I understand it remains static when a sub lapses except that it can no longer be added to, only subtracted from. The bank space essentially gets halved. Since I'm more of the casual persuasion, having a complete roster of maxed out characters to use as banks alts isnt in the cards. I dont know very people personally who do have that. I read on the forums all day about how people do, but like a great many other things, I find the game itself to be vastly different.
I don't have an issue with a separate queue nearly as much as I do removing the incentive to do the DLCs. It's not a healthy long term solution. If you want to rework the reward system to provide the incentive and make the rewards reflect the risk, awesome, best of luck. That would separate the queue and still provide incentive for people to take on the challenge and incentive for ZoS to make content in the first place. It may actually give them a little more insight into the type of content the average player enjoys. That's been an unpopular stance to have taken in the past though.
It doesnt need to be a premade only, though we could do away with the RDF altogether and this would all be moot point. I PUG them all the time. My barometer for "success" isnt measured in how fast I clear any given piece of content, it's in how much fun I'm having. Despite how the forums depict people that run this type of content, I've found that many are quite relaxed and enjoyable, in other words, I'm not the only one.0 -
MooseKnuckles88✭✭✭✭Minor but important correction: this is not an ESO+ vs non-subscriber issue. Anyone who bought the Gold Edition of the game will also have the White Gold Tower dungeon (the one the OP used as an example of how bad this problem is) and may not even realise it's a DLC dungeon because for them it came with the base game. Likewise any player can buy any DLC they like, none of them are exclusive to ESO+.
Admittedly it is slightly less likely that a non-subscriber will have newer DLC dungeons they don't know how to complete, because in recent updates dungeons and open-world content have been separated so people are probably only going to buy them if they want to do them and therefore will probably make the effort to learn how. But there's always exceptions.
I agree that there should be an option to disable DLC dungeons, but it should be available to everyone using the dungeon finder, not just subscribers. IMO ideally there would be 3 choices - all dungeons, base-game only and DLC only.
I don't agree that the extra reward from the random dungeon option is in return for the "risk" of getting a DLC dungeon because that risk is meaningless. If you're lucky or willing to leave and re-enter you could get Fungal Grotto I or another easy dungeon and get the exact same reward.
Perhaps increase xp gain for doing a dlc would be a good incentive for people to stick it out too.
As someone who is not cp capped (cp740), I get 100k xp no matter if I do normal fungal grotto or vet moon hunter keep. I would have more interest in doing more dlcs as my random on vet if the juice is worth the squeeze. Dlcs take more time to complete especially on vet, to make it worth it for those who queued in as a random I think it wouldn't be too much to ask if ZoS put a little more incentive out there.Edited by MooseKnuckles88 on November 8, 2018 6:11PM0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »You could just select Specific Dungeons and skip the DLCs.
But then you couldn't get the special rewards for the Daily Random Dungeon, which has an additional reward to go with the risk of getting a harder dungeon.
The random daily does NOT come with additional rewards for getting a harder dungeon, rather ESO + rewards paying players with the risk of getting a harder dungeon and / or spending more time for the same rewards a non ESO + player gets for running fast and simple base dungeons.
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. He is saying you could select your dungeon instead of doing random but you will not get the reward. If you want to get the reward you gotta risk getting the harder dungeons.
I'm lucky because a guild mate likes creating new characters so he always has a low level character available to do the random daily on. I join him and things go smooth.
That is just not true. You don't have to risk getting a DLC dungeon for your random if you don't buy them and don't sub. This is why the system is broken. It can be a penalty on those who sub compared to people who buy the game for $10 and never spend another cent.
So stop saying people have to risk getting a DLC dungeon to get the random rewards. That isn't true. Only the more loyal customers have that penalty, which seems like a poor implementation to me.
There is a comment in this discussion where someone didn't renew their ESO+ to avoid having to do DLC dungeons during the Undaunted event. That sounds like something that needs fixing. Wish I had thought of that before doing a larger sub package.
I have no doubt that at some point somebody probably has in fact done just that, but the argument is lacking. All of this is over the reward. We arent forced into DLC dungeons, we choose this. We can at any time select any dungeon we would like omitting the DLCs.
I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.
when it comes to undaunted event? yes. becasue the ONLY way to get the undaunted bag + event ticket? is to complete a RANDOM. (and I just happen to be another person who canceled my subscription for the duration of undaunted event. lucky for me, mine runs out 1 day before event starts, so I'll only have to live without craft bag for a week. as trade offs go? its more then worth it. and isn't THAT a shame?
my suggestion to fix this thing is to either create a separate queue for DLC dungeons or better yet - make them premade only.
and before complaints about pugging pledges start... how successful is DLC pledge pugging without creating group in advance is exactly? I would bet - not very. oh its possible. sometimes you get lucky. but success chance is slim. and plus.. if you are going specifically for pledges, I would bet, you are NOT queueing up for a random.
in another thread I brought up that other game and how it does mythic dungeons. to explain - mythic dungeons are higher difficulty dungeons that actualy come with scaling difficulty and they are not part of random queue. premade only. finishing one comes with extra rewards - higher difficulty = better rewards. seems to be working out pretty great. IMO something to learn from.
Are you sure about the Undaunted event? Because when they announced the Indrik mount their release says:Undaunted Celebration Event: November 29 – December 5
To earn Event Tickets during the Undaunted Celebration Event, you must complete a dungeon (Normal or Veteran). You will receive three Event Tickets from the final boss of the first dungeon you complete in addition to the normal rewards. You don’t have to be in a random dungeon LFG group to earn your Event Tickets!
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54935
So unless they changed their minds, you can just do what we did during the Witches' Festival and run Spindle I every day.
And seriously, I am not a very good player, but I have only twice failed to complete a random normal DLC dungeon.
I'd much rather run Mazzatun than City of Ash II, for example.The Moot Councillor0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I personally have no problem with DLC dungeons being included per se. My problem is how often I end up with people who can't handle the content, but have ESO+. One problem is that if I queue for a vet DLC dungeon, I believe it can pull in people looking for random dungeons. By including all DLC in the random vet, it just makes for a less pleasant experience with group find that bleeds into people not doing a random dungeon.
Since I hit cp809 last night, I will likely stop doing random vet dungeons and just do the 3 vet pledges. If I do a random, it will be a normal on an alt that is not yet max level. I don't see the point in the frustration when the XP means nothing to my main until the CP cap increases.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »You could just select Specific Dungeons and skip the DLCs.
But then you couldn't get the special rewards for the Daily Random Dungeon, which has an additional reward to go with the risk of getting a harder dungeon.
The random daily does NOT come with additional rewards for getting a harder dungeon, rather ESO + rewards paying players with the risk of getting a harder dungeon and / or spending more time for the same rewards a non ESO + player gets for running fast and simple base dungeons.
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. He is saying you could select your dungeon instead of doing random but you will not get the reward. If you want to get the reward you gotta risk getting the harder dungeons.
I'm lucky because a guild mate likes creating new characters so he always has a low level character available to do the random daily on. I join him and things go smooth.
That is just not true. You don't have to risk getting a DLC dungeon for your random if you don't buy them and don't sub. This is why the system is broken. It can be a penalty on those who sub compared to people who buy the game for $10 and never spend another cent.
So stop saying people have to risk getting a DLC dungeon to get the random rewards. That isn't true. Only the more loyal customers have that penalty, which seems like a poor implementation to me.
There is a comment in this discussion where someone didn't renew their ESO+ to avoid having to do DLC dungeons during the Undaunted event. That sounds like something that needs fixing. Wish I had thought of that before doing a larger sub package.
I have no doubt that at some point somebody probably has in fact done just that, but the argument is lacking. All of this is over the reward. We arent forced into DLC dungeons, we choose this. We can at any time select any dungeon we would like omitting the DLCs.
I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.
when it comes to undaunted event? yes. becasue the ONLY way to get the undaunted bag + event ticket? is to complete a RANDOM. (and I just happen to be another person who canceled my subscription for the duration of undaunted event. lucky for me, mine runs out 1 day before event starts, so I'll only have to live without craft bag for a week. as trade offs go? its more then worth it. and isn't THAT a shame?
my suggestion to fix this thing is to either create a separate queue for DLC dungeons or better yet - make them premade only.
and before complaints about pugging pledges start... how successful is DLC pledge pugging without creating group in advance is exactly? I would bet - not very. oh its possible. sometimes you get lucky. but success chance is slim. and plus.. if you are going specifically for pledges, I would bet, you are NOT queueing up for a random.
in another thread I brought up that other game and how it does mythic dungeons. to explain - mythic dungeons are higher difficulty dungeons that actualy come with scaling difficulty and they are not part of random queue. premade only. finishing one comes with extra rewards - higher difficulty = better rewards. seems to be working out pretty great. IMO something to learn from.
Are you sure about the Undaunted event? Because when they announced the Indrik mount their release says:Undaunted Celebration Event: November 29 – December 5
To earn Event Tickets during the Undaunted Celebration Event, you must complete a dungeon (Normal or Veteran). You will receive three Event Tickets from the final boss of the first dungeon you complete in addition to the normal rewards. You don’t have to be in a random dungeon LFG group to earn your Event Tickets!
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/54935
So unless they changed their minds, you can just do what we did during the Witches' Festival and run Spindle I every day.
And seriously, I am not a very good player, but I have only twice failed to complete a random normal DLC dungeon.
I'd much rather run Mazzatun than City of Ash II, for example.
that's for event tickets. unless they changed undaunted rewards, the extra bags you get - those are tied to random dungeon completion and its cooldown (the bags I'm talking about contained random crafting mats, occasional costumes and super rarely mounts or house collections)dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »DaveMoeDee wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »You could just select Specific Dungeons and skip the DLCs.
But then you couldn't get the special rewards for the Daily Random Dungeon, which has an additional reward to go with the risk of getting a harder dungeon.
The random daily does NOT come with additional rewards for getting a harder dungeon, rather ESO + rewards paying players with the risk of getting a harder dungeon and / or spending more time for the same rewards a non ESO + player gets for running fast and simple base dungeons.
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. He is saying you could select your dungeon instead of doing random but you will not get the reward. If you want to get the reward you gotta risk getting the harder dungeons.
I'm lucky because a guild mate likes creating new characters so he always has a low level character available to do the random daily on. I join him and things go smooth.
That is just not true. You don't have to risk getting a DLC dungeon for your random if you don't buy them and don't sub. This is why the system is broken. It can be a penalty on those who sub compared to people who buy the game for $10 and never spend another cent.
So stop saying people have to risk getting a DLC dungeon to get the random rewards. That isn't true. Only the more loyal customers have that penalty, which seems like a poor implementation to me.
There is a comment in this discussion where someone didn't renew their ESO+ to avoid having to do DLC dungeons during the Undaunted event. That sounds like something that needs fixing. Wish I had thought of that before doing a larger sub package.
I have no doubt that at some point somebody probably has in fact done just that, but the argument is lacking. All of this is over the reward. We arent forced into DLC dungeons, we choose this. We can at any time select any dungeon we would like omitting the DLCs.
I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.
when it comes to undaunted event? yes. becasue the ONLY way to get the undaunted bag + event ticket? is to complete a RANDOM. (and I just happen to be another person who canceled my subscription for the duration of undaunted event. lucky for me, mine runs out 1 day before event starts, so I'll only have to live without craft bag for a week. as trade offs go? its more then worth it. and isn't THAT a shame?
my suggestion to fix this thing is to either create a separate queue for DLC dungeons or better yet - make them premade only.
and before complaints about pugging pledges start... how successful is DLC pledge pugging without creating group in advance is exactly? I would bet - not very. oh its possible. sometimes you get lucky. but success chance is slim. and plus.. if you are going specifically for pledges, I would bet, you are NOT queueing up for a random.
in another thread I brought up that other game and how it does mythic dungeons. to explain - mythic dungeons are higher difficulty dungeons that actualy come with scaling difficulty and they are not part of random queue. premade only. finishing one comes with extra rewards - higher difficulty = better rewards. seems to be working out pretty great. IMO something to learn from.
The craft bag is only part of the equation. The craft bag as I understand it remains static when a sub lapses except that it can no longer be added to, only subtracted from. The bank space essentially gets halved. Since I'm more of the casual persuasion, having a complete roster of maxed out characters to use as banks alts isnt in the cards. I dont know very people personally who do have that. I read on the forums all day about how people do, but like a great many other things, I find the game itself to be vastly different.
I don't have an issue with a separate queue nearly as much as I do removing the incentive to do the DLCs. It's not a healthy long term solution. If you want to rework the reward system to provide the incentive and make the rewards reflect the risk, awesome, best of luck. That would separate the queue and still provide incentive for people to take on the challenge and incentive for ZoS to make content in the first place. It may actually give them a little more insight into the type of content the average player enjoys. That's been an unpopular stance to have taken in the past though.
It doesnt need to be a premade only, though we could do away with the RDF altogether and this would all be moot point. I PUG them all the time. My barometer for "success" isnt measured in how fast I clear any given piece of content, it's in how much fun I'm having. Despite how the forums depict people that run this type of content, I've found that many are quite relaxed and enjoyable, in other words, I'm not the only one.
I do think that there should be ADDED incentive to do DLC dungeons. becasue right now, they are literally not worth doing if you get them as random and are not specifically looking for one of them. even people who like the challenge - do not tend to keep running them once they got their skins/personalities.
my barometer of success is measured by how much I have accomplished at any given time. becasue its not fun for me to zone into a dungeon, and then either go through a succession of players leaving - for group to eventually fall apart anyways, or getting a group that tries and tries and tries and still gets nowhere. my success rate for DLC dungeons on normal is maybe 1 in 4 that I get slotted into. I don't pug Vet, I'm not brave enough for that - that's reserved for running with guildies ONLY.
there are a lot of things about ESO plus that I find very valuable for myself. I can live without those things for a week if it means I don't get thrown into Wolfhunter keep of Bloodroot forge as my random of the day on my "I kinda put this tank together solely so I could get insta queue" character who has taunt and proper weapons and a fair amount of health, but I don't have the skill to play in anything outside of original dungeons.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
munster1404✭✭✭✭Just get rid of the random dungeon feature and make the first dungeon a player choose to queue (including pledges) for the day grant the same reward.0
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Ufretin✭✭✭✭✭thanoscopter wrote: »Thanks for all the responses although some of them weren't helpful such as saying "random means random" or asking why people are queuing random vet dungeons. The point of this thread remains true, the ESO+ members are getting thrown into vet DLC dungeons that are a often a dead end and often require leaving or wasting hours of time to complete. This is while non-subscribing players get to enjoy easy and pretty much guaranteed reward every time they queue for a vet random. I did not see a valid counterargument which proves this fact wrong.
I've been doing random vet dungeons on a daily basis to increase my CP, get transmute crystals, while often getting a pledge dungeon and level up my undaunted on my multiple tanks in one fell swoop. There's a lot of incentive to continue queuing up for these random veteran dungeons. Every day however I have had delays in my progress due to the vet DLC dungeons being in my random pool; today here are the ones I got for comparison.
First one I got a half completed Banished Cells I that didn't get me the pledge but got me the Reward in less than 5 minutes. You see, in this case, even if there were some initial difficulties I know I can complete or even solo this dungeon on Vet with my tank if need be. That's why I'd always stick around for these. Now compare that to the next one I got...
Second one was a Vet Bloodroot Forge which is not even the pledge for today that looked to be stuck on the first boss with CP 300-400 people. One guy said "please stop leaving, I need something here" right after I joined as I was considering giving them a chance but also considering the responses in this thread. Ya know, being asked to stay before even being greeted with a welcome is a red flag. It implies multiple players before me decided it wasn't worth their time and there were likely problems with the mechanics.
I took the cooldown, requeued, got vet VoM and it was a speed clear for the reward and having a chance of the motif. That seemed like a much better investment of my time than a potential wipefest. I reckon that Bloodroot group wasn't even to the second boss by the time my new team had VoM cleared and the reward in hand.
I still don't see why anyone would want to do a random vet.
If it's xp you're after, grab a lvl 10 player and do a 4 minutes run of nFG1/nBC1.
For everything else just tick/untick any selection of dungeons you like.0 -
thanoscopter✭✭✭I still don't see why anyone would want to do a random vet.
If it's xp you're after, grab a lvl 10 player and do a 4 minutes run of nFG1/nBC1.
For everything else just tick/untick any selection of dungeons you like.
Okay, others don't seem to understand it either it seems. I have multiple characters and once I hit 50, I change them to tanks, slap my tank gear on them for the instant queues and do random daily veteran dungeons. This is solely to grind undaunted extremely fast while getting skill points and other rewards.
For example, I queued two random vets today on separate tanks and got vet Spindleclutch I each time which was also the pledge. I got 50 undaunted each on both my tanks (no death + speed run), 20 undaunted each for the pledge, 2 undaunted keys each, the exp reward each, the transmute crystals (5 per tank). Each of my tanks also got the skill point and exp for the quest. These vet runs were also completed in under 10 minutes each.
What you are proposing is not competitive at all with the above scenario, yeah it gives easy exp, but nothing else that I need to progress my new characters rapidly. Now if I got a DLC vet there's a good chance I would have ended up with no rewards depending on what kind of group I got. That's still the major issue here. Players without ESO+ get to enjoy the above scenario (Spindleclutch I instead of Bloodroot Forge) while it is a dice flip for ESO+ members whether they get a decent dungeon or not. Telling us to not do random vet group finder is not a solution.Edited by thanoscopter on November 9, 2018 11:18PM0