Random Veteran Dungeon - Let ESO+ members unselect DLC please

disintegr8

Why do random vets when you get the same XP from normals?

I'll use vet group finder only for specific dungeons if I have a reason to run them, never for random.

profundidob16_ESO

Sennecca wrote: »

I like the idea of splitting the random daily dungeon in to three different random groups. For example, select random daily dungeon group A (easier dungeons) get _____ reward. Select random daily dungeon group B. (with a warning that these dungeons are more difficult for more experienced or ..fill in the blank )for _____ reward. A third tier which includes the most difficult dlc dungeons.

A difficulty tier list with better rewards for more difficult tiers. Some like to play casually without trying to max dps and gear. If I'm a player who just wants to group to do a dungeon for fun, but am afraid I'm going to get placed in one of the last few dlc dungeons, the chances of going is random queue is lower.

The higher level dungeons should not place a new 50 player into it when they don't have the dps, the gear or the understanding of the mechanics into it. At least without a choice in the matter. It's not fair to them and not fair to ones who do who are looking for a person to fill a fourth spot in order to do a run of it.

Shiver and shake when you look at the exact date of my post where I made a bunch of suggestions of which 4 of them have been actually implemented in the game so far since the moment of my writing:

note that this was written in a time where the cp system did not exist yet and VR16 was maximum level in the game and it was very common for people to chain-leave and kick until they got the perfect dungeon of choice since there was no penalty:



https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/256800/constructive-feedback-and-suggestions-gathering-thread-to-improve-the-group-finder-tool-devs#latest


and beginning this year reiterated:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/394288/suggestion-to-devs-split-off-vet-dlc-dungeons-in-random-group-finder/p1

Nurable

TazESO wrote: »

I agree we need the option, but I for one like that sometimes the situation described by OP happens, especially if I know the dungeon. It helps new players learn the mechanics or tactics. I have helped many a newbie get better and feel a sense of satisfaction instead of abandonment. I must admit that if they group has no hope, I let them know exactly why before dropping. Most times a frustrated peep or two leave for greener pastures and someone comes in to help me save the day.

Yeah, I’m sick, lol

- healer.

Edited for clarity.

Whilst I agree with what you say for the older dlc dungeons, this doesn't work on the newer ones. There are so many mechanics and it requires good damage from dd's that I find it harder to help new players.

I really enjoy jumping into a pug and meeting new players and helping them out. But it's too much to ask them to do one of the newer vet dungeons (or even on normal, as I've found). It's the newer players that want to do the random vet/normal for the xp, so why throw them into the hardest content. When they feel confident, they can jump into the harder ones. I do think there should be a minimum cp requirement for them too.

It would be better to have three options; random normal, random vet and random epic (or something), that includes all dlc dungeons.

Agenericname

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Dawnblade wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You could just select Specific Dungeons and skip the DLCs.

But then you couldn't get the special rewards for the Daily Random Dungeon, which has an additional reward to go with the risk of getting a harder dungeon.

The random daily does NOT come with additional rewards for getting a harder dungeon, rather ESO + rewards paying players with the risk of getting a harder dungeon and / or spending more time for the same rewards a non ESO + player gets for running fast and simple base dungeons.

I think you misunderstood what he is saying. He is saying you could select your dungeon instead of doing random but you will not get the reward. If you want to get the reward you gotta risk getting the harder dungeons.

I'm lucky because a guild mate likes creating new characters so he always has a low level character available to do the random daily on. I join him and things go smooth.

That is just not true. You don't have to risk getting a DLC dungeon for your random if you don't buy them and don't sub. This is why the system is broken. It can be a penalty on those who sub compared to people who buy the game for $10 and never spend another cent.

So stop saying people have to risk getting a DLC dungeon to get the random rewards. That isn't true. Only the more loyal customers have that penalty, which seems like a poor implementation to me.

There is a comment in this discussion where someone didn't renew their ESO+ to avoid having to do DLC dungeons during the Undaunted event. That sounds like something that needs fixing. Wish I had thought of that before doing a larger sub package.

I have no doubt that at some point somebody probably has in fact done just that, but the argument is lacking. All of this is over the reward. We arent forced into DLC dungeons, we choose this. We can at any time select any dungeon we would like omitting the DLCs.

I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.

wolf486

Usually once I hit level 35 or 40 on my characters I just stop doing randoms. I remember earlier this year I got a DLC dungeon, first time doing it and the final boss we kept getting killed on. One guy got frustrated and left. Took a good 40 minutes to do it, with an addition 10 or 15 of just waiting for new people to show.

I find there is a lack of balance. The usual dungeons get a bit too easy, while the DLC dungeons are too hard. But I do agree, I'd like to exclude the DLC dungeons

llSRRll

I wish I could un-select those during normal random too. Everyday I tried to do a quick normal random and always got a dlc dungeon with some noobs who either snipe spam from a mile away or some pvp noob who just spams wrecking blow and executioner. Something that should take me 10-15 mins tops can take up to about 45 min or longer. In the end it was more beneficial for me to just sit in Spell's Scar and grind cp there, I just stopped doing them all together.

VagabondLife

Agenericname wrote: »

I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.

You might have a hard time believing this too, but not everyone is you. For some of us, the ability to run multiple quick randoms is absolutely more valuable than the craft bag.

I had the sub for 2 years before I dropped it when Nerfmire was announced. I literally have thousands of most mats in my craft bag already, more than I'll ever use. At this point there's only a handful that are still worth collecting. And between my 10 characters, bank, and house storage, I've got around 2000 storage slots. Materials storage is no problem for me whatsoever.

In the meantime, I've got 4 characters who still need their Undaunted leveled up, skill morphs, etc. Without the DLC dungeons in my queue, I can usually run a random normal on all 4 of them in just over an hour (two are healers, so quick queues). Compared to before I dropped the sub, when I was lucky to actually get through a single dungeon a night. Last night I got nFG1 on both healers and pulled in about 700k XP in 20 minutes. Screw the craft bag. Not giving ZoS my $15 a month gets me way better privileges.

Romo

VagabondLife wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.

You might have a hard time believing this too, but not everyone is you. For some of us, the ability to run multiple quick randoms is absolutely more valuable than the craft bag.

I had the sub for 2 years before I dropped it when Nerfmire was announced. I literally have thousands of most mats in my craft bag already, more than I'll ever use. At this point there's only a handful that are still worth collecting. And between my 10 characters, bank, and house storage, I've got around 2000 storage slots. Materials storage is no problem for me whatsoever.

In the meantime, I've got 4 characters who still need their Undaunted leveled up, skill morphs, etc. Without the DLC dungeons in my queue, I can usually run a random normal on all 4 of them in just over an hour (two are healers, so quick queues). Compared to before I dropped the sub, when I was lucky to actually get through a single dungeon a night. Last night I got nFG1 on both healers and pulled in about 700k XP in 20 minutes. Screw the craft bag. Not giving ZoS my $15 a month gets me way better privileges.

This.

My sub runs out just before the Undaunted event. While playing ESO have always been subbed.. not now. Got lots of toons to run thru "randoms" during the event.

After the event will resub and carry on.....

Agenericname

VagabondLife wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

I have a hard time believing that the XP and whatever other rewards come from the daily are worth more that access to the crafting bag. To someone that may be the case, it's certainly not to me. I'd spend less time making up the 100k xp I'd be missing from the daily reward than I would playing elder scrolls of inventory management online.

You might have a hard time believing this too, but not everyone is you. For some of us, the ability to run multiple quick randoms is absolutely more valuable than the craft bag.

I had the sub for 2 years before I dropped it when Nerfmire was announced. I literally have thousands of most mats in my craft bag already, more than I'll ever use. At this point there's only a handful that are still worth collecting. And between my 10 characters, bank, and house storage, I've got around 2000 storage slots. Materials storage is no problem for me whatsoever.

In the meantime, I've got 4 characters who still need their Undaunted leveled up, skill morphs, etc. Without the DLC dungeons in my queue, I can usually run a random normal on all 4 of them in just over an hour (two are healers, so quick queues). Compared to before I dropped the sub, when I was lucky to actually get through a single dungeon a night. Last night I got nFG1 on both healers and pulled in about 700k XP in 20 minutes. Screw the craft bag. Not giving ZoS my $15 a month gets me way better privileges.

It kind of sounds like you had an axe to grind with the patch anyway, but that's another matter.

My point is, you would have gotten the same XP selecting a dungeon vs using the RDF minus the 100k bonus. If you use the RDF theres still a chance of getting CoA2 or any other longer dungeon, it would far more efficient to simply pick nFG1 out the gate if your goal were simply XP.

If the goal was to level the undaunted, there are far better ways than using the RDF.

ATomiX96

random 1. made, done, or happening without method or conscious decision.

or just make everyone access dlc content via "RANDOM" dungeon finder, alot of games do that but the greed says no.

iiYuki

Agreed, can't count the number of DLC dungeons that have failed from the start due to low level or under geared players wasting their and our time running a dungeon for no reason.
Might as well do the normal version and upgrade the gear or just do the normal version of the pledge and get 1 key anyway since its unlikely a pug, unless they already out-gear and out level the content, will be able to do the HM version too.

DMuehlhausen

How about no

ookami007

I agree... For those times I don't have 4 hours for a bunch of strangers to flounder through a dlc dungeon before giving up...

SakuraRush

Why not just change the random dungeon into a free xp and items button? You click it and then 25 minutes later you get the reward.

That way you don't run the risk of having to something.

VagabondLife

Agenericname wrote: »

It kind of sounds like you had an axe to grind with the patch anyway, but that's another matter.

Absolutely, the patch was the tipping point for me. I disliked not being able to reliably complete my daily randoms, but I was still mindlessly buying into the whole idea that losing the craft bag would be game breaking.

Once Nerfmire was announced, I decided that it was finally time to put my money where my mouth is, and stop paying for incompetent game development, even if that meant putting up with the inconvenience of losing the craft bag. And once I did that, I realized that I don't miss the craft bag at all. I'm honestly embarrassed that I didn't start thinking for myself a little sooner, instead of just mindlessly listening to everyone here insisting I needed it.

Agenericname wrote: »

My point is, you would have gotten the same XP selecting a dungeon vs using the RDF minus the 100k bonus. If you use the RDF theres still a chance of getting CoA2 or any other longer dungeon, it would far more efficient to simply pick nFG1 out the gate if your goal were simply XP.

And my point is, I want the 100k XP. That's the only reason I run randoms, instead of just picking specific dungeons. CoA2 is a little longer than the others, but it's still super easy on normal, I've never had a group fall apart, always gotten my 100k XP.

And fun bonus, with the DLCs out of my queue, I can queue for random vets instead of random normals when I have the time. More fun than normals, purple jewels, and I'm still almost guaranteed to get my 100k XP. Even vet CoA2 has a lower fail rate than a normal DLC dungeon. Go figure...

kojou

IMO, there are 2 choices here. Tune DLC dungeons down so they can be completed by easily by PuGs or remove them from the queue.

Giving the option to remove them is essentially the same thing as removal because anyone that wants to do a quick random dungeon is not going to do a DLC. Even if you know the mechanics they are not as quick as the standard content dungeons.

Danikat

Minor but important correction: this is not an ESO+ vs non-subscriber issue. Anyone who bought the Gold Edition of the game will also have the White Gold Tower dungeon (the one the OP used as an example of how bad this problem is) and may not even realise it's a DLC dungeon because for them it came with the base game. Likewise any player can buy any DLC they like, none of them are exclusive to ESO+.

Admittedly it is slightly less likely that a non-subscriber will have newer DLC dungeons they don't know how to complete, because in recent updates dungeons and open-world content have been separated so people are probably only going to buy them if they want to do them and therefore will probably make the effort to learn how. But there's always exceptions.

I agree that there should be an option to disable DLC dungeons, but it should be available to everyone using the dungeon finder, not just subscribers. IMO ideally there would be 3 choices - all dungeons, base-game only and DLC only.

I don't agree that the extra reward from the random dungeon option is in return for the "risk" of getting a DLC dungeon because that risk is meaningless. If you're lucky or willing to leave and re-enter you could get Fungal Grotto I or another easy dungeon and get the exact same reward.

Valrien

Greysson wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It really is a great idea to offer the ability to do a random of non dlc dungeons and be able to choose doing a random of any and all dungeons.

Of course, including the DLC dungeons, including having access to those dungeons, should provide a higher reward.

The other way to look at it is if someone does not include the DLC dungeons they would get a smaller reward since they took less risk. This would include those that do not have access since that is the only way to be fair.

Random of all dungeons = Gold Rewards. Something higher tier than the current purple.
Randon excluding the DLC would be purple rewards.

Of course just make make the DLC reward the current purple would work and non DLC would be the blue quality.

Now, if you think Zos would permit players to exclude DLC dungeons in the random and get the same reward, that is not thinking this through clearly.

And people like you always forget, that non-subbers will never get the risk to be thrown into a dlc dungeon (sure, if they had not bought the dlc) and get the same rewards.
So all non-subbers would get less rewards with your idea, which is BS, imo.

Maybe they should sub, then, if they really want the rewards

idk

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Sennecca wrote: »

I like the idea of splitting the random daily dungeon in to three different random groups. For example, select random daily dungeon group A (easier dungeons) get _____ reward. Select random daily dungeon group B. (with a warning that these dungeons are more difficult for more experienced or ..fill in the blank )for _____ reward. A third tier which includes the most difficult dlc dungeons.

A difficulty tier list with better rewards for more difficult tiers. Some like to play casually without trying to max dps and gear. If I'm a player who just wants to group to do a dungeon for fun, but am afraid I'm going to get placed in one of the last few dlc dungeons, the chances of going is random queue is lower.

The higher level dungeons should not place a new 50 player into it when they don't have the dps, the gear or the understanding of the mechanics into it. At least without a choice in the matter. It's not fair to them and not fair to ones who do who are looking for a person to fill a fourth spot in order to do a run of it.

Shiver and shake when you look at the exact date of my post where I made a bunch of suggestions of which 4 of them have been actually implemented in the game so far since the moment of my writing:

note that this was written in a time where the cp system did not exist yet and VR16 was maximum level in the game and it was very common for people to chain-leave and kick until they got the perfect dungeon of choice since there was no penalty:

Shiver and shake, but when we were v16 the CP system had long been implemented. CP was added in update 1.6, iirc, and the level cap was increased to v16 in update 2.1 (Imperial City).

Just thought I would remind you of the order of those events. That is all.

negbert

I agree. I will not do vet /normal random runs if there is a change of getting a dlc dungeon. My experience of pugs for these in the past has not been good. I quite enjoy doing random normals on my low level tank at the moment. It’s a shame that that will end once he levels up.

Agenericname

Danikat wrote: »

Minor but important correction: this is not an ESO+ vs non-subscriber issue. Anyone who bought the Gold Edition of the game will also have the White Gold Tower dungeon (the one the OP used as an example of how bad this problem is) and may not even realise it's a DLC dungeon because for them it came with the base game. Likewise any player can buy any DLC they like, none of them are exclusive to ESO+.

Admittedly it is slightly less likely that a non-subscriber will have newer DLC dungeons they don't know how to complete, because in recent updates dungeons and open-world content have been separated so people are probably only going to buy them if they want to do them and therefore will probably make the effort to learn how. But there's always exceptions.

I agree that there should be an option to disable DLC dungeons, but it should be available to everyone using the dungeon finder, not just subscribers. IMO ideally there would be 3 choices - all dungeons, base-game only and DLC only.

I don't agree that the extra reward from the random dungeon option is in return for the "risk" of getting a DLC dungeon because that risk is meaningless. If you're lucky or willing to leave and re-enter you could get Fungal Grotto I or another easy dungeon and get the exact same reward.[/quote]

I doubt that it started out that way. Theres so little difference between the reward for nFG1 and vFL that I really doubt that much thought was put into it. I dont think that ZOS envisioned a scenario where people would actively avoid new content. Being able to leave a dungeon and go to another is more than likely an oversight as well.

I dont think that risk vs reward was a defining principle in the creation of the RDF, but it would become one if they excluded DLCs. It would remove the incentive to do them in the RDF altogether for people that didnt run them with a premade group, but they're not the target demographic of the RDF anyway. If the rewards are the same for nFG1 and nFL or vFG1 and vFL, and I can exclude FL, why bother doing it all? What's the incentive for ZOS to do this?

They've sort of painted themselves into a corner creating content that people avoid and certainly done so tying it all to the subs.

NordSwordnBoard

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Shiver and shake when you look at the exact date of my post where I made a bunch of suggestions of which 4 of them have been actually implemented in the game so far since the moment of my writing:

I saw the date of the post, read it, and did not shiver and shake. Is that a side effect of self-aggrandizing necromancy?

Cadbury

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Shiver and shake when you look at the exact date of my post where I made a bunch of suggestions of which 4 of them have been actually implemented in the game so far since the moment of my writing:

I saw the date of the post, read it, and did not shiver and shake. Is that a side effect of self-aggrandizing necromancy?

No. That's just indigestion.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Coming from someone that has no issues clearing any of these dungeons, even on vet HM, I wildly support this idea. Even normal DLCs become problematic if you are carrying more than one person.

Cruxanero

As a tank, I also seem to be frequently placed in DLC dungeons, usually stuck at some random boss. Now my problem is that I feel obligated to help, as long as there are still groupmates willing to try further, which is why I sometimes spend hours whiping even though I could see it probably wouldn't work out. After a couple times I just stopped running random dungeons at all, because this happened so often.
Nowadays I just search for a DPS that doesn't have access to DLC dungeons, either from guild, friend list or even zone chat. But usually someone volunteers within seconds, which means I can easily avoid the DLC dungeons and still get the random dungeon reward.

So, if there already is this option, albeit through a workaround, why not implement it conveniently for everyone? That might even benefit the DLC queues, since only people willing to try them would queue for them, which brings a group faster together than through countless people leaving DLC dungeons at the start.

redspecter23

idk wrote: »

Greysson wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Greysson wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Greysson wrote: »

idk wrote: »

It really is a great idea to offer the ability to do a random of non dlc dungeons and be able to choose doing a random of any and all dungeons.

Of course, including the DLC dungeons, including having access to those dungeons, should provide a higher reward.

The other way to look at it is if someone does not include the DLC dungeons they would get a smaller reward since they took less risk. This would include those that do not have access since that is the only way to be fair.

Random of all dungeons = Gold Rewards. Something higher tier than the current purple.
Randon excluding the DLC would be purple rewards.

Of course just make make the DLC reward the current purple would work and non DLC would be the blue quality.

Now, if you think Zos would permit players to exclude DLC dungeons in the random and get the same reward, that is not thinking this through clearly.

And people like you always forget, that non-subbers will never get the risk to be thrown into a dlc dungeon (sure, if they had not bought the dlc) and get the same rewards.
So all non-subbers would get less rewards with your idea, which is BS, imo.

People like me? LOL.

I am bring realistic, logical. If you really think Zos would have made it so players could deselect the DLC dungeons and still get the same reward then I apologize for bringing in a dose of reality.

You suggest it is BS that non subs would get less rewards, they do as it is. They choose to not have access to the DLCs, the gear that comes from the DLCs that is BoP. They choose to not get the pets, skins and other perks that come from completing achievements they do not have access to.

It is not BS. It is reality and their choice.

I dont care about achivements, gear, pets and stuff vom dlc dungeons. i wouldnt buy a dungeon dlc in their current state if they would only cost 10 crowns. but i am forced into them in a random daily dungeons because i sub.

Fabulous. It still does not make sense that Zos would offer a means to take less risk and still give the same reward. That is where my suggestion comes in as the solution that Zos would likely take in some fashion if they ever permitted us to deselect the DLC dungeons with the random.

In the mean time, you can easily avoid the DLC dungeons by queueing up with someone who does not have access to the DLCs.

One time again: ZOS offers the same reward for non-subbers without that DLCs. Why should i be punished for subbing?

I already explained this very clearly. I think you are just being argumentative.

In fact I have explained the solution that Zos would logically take in some fashion (seems I have already said this). In that you would be able to deselect the DLC dungeons and get the same reward that those that lack access get. Wow. You are not punished.

Of course, those that select the greater challenge possibility will get a greater reward. OMG, seems so rational and logical.

The issue is that there is a greater risk of a more difficult dungeon, but when you queue, if you finish, the reward is always the same. While some might say that ESO+ players are "punished", it might be wrong to use that wording. They are most definitely at a disadvantage compared to a non ESO+ player with no DLC. On average, the ESO+ player will have longer and harder content for the same rewards that a non subscriber has access to. An ESO+ member also has a greater risk of complete failure as DLC dungeons, even on normal, can be complete failures at times with unprepared players. This makes the experience of queueing for a random normal an unfavorable thing to do for many people. These people might even be encouraged to drop their sub if they enjoy vanilla dungeons, but not DLC dungeons. This is not in the best interests of anyone for this to happen. ESO+ players most definitely have a harder pool of random dungeons in the queue than non ESO+ members and that's just not right. People get worried about "pay to win" in their games, but this is a situation where paying actually leads to slower progress. Pay to lose.

Dawnblade

I'm not sure why anyone thinks it good game design to offer a daily reward for completing a random dungeon, and then mix in dungeons that can be done in 10 minutes solo with dungeons that require a bit more time but still fairly simple and also include dungeons that require a full competent group, take much longer, and have a high risk of failure.

Either the DLC content needs to be tuned in line with the base dungeons (normal abd vet), or it needs to be given a separate queue and / or a toggle to include / exclude.

Also just my opinion, but random group queue content should be tuned such that it can be completed in 30 minutes or less with a high success chance by the average ESO player (average skill, gear, CP, etc).

Any content requiring above average competency, skill, CP, and / or gear should require creating a pre-made group (which they should help facilitate by creating a group finder tool for harder content - e.g. a tool that lets players create, list and search groups, with the leader responsible for group member selection).

AlnilamE

ayu_fever wrote: »

DLC dungeons are very.... involved.
they require lots of time, dedication, pre made groups, mics, and abiding the mechanics.

they are just too hard!!!
they CANNOT be done in pugs. period.
but they werent designed to be either.
they really are “mini trials.”

not everyone has friends and is not in. guild.
not everyone wants to be either.
they have to take the lowest common denominator and use that as a baseline for difficulty.
this line should also be applied to dlc dungeons as well.

remove all dlc dungeons from random group finder and force any dlc dungeon to require manual group forming like we currently have for trials.
OR...
leave dlc dungeons in random group finder but give lots and lots of super nerfs to all aspects of dlc dungeons to bring them in line with base game content.

of course some people will cry about this.
but those that do cry about it have people to run with anyway so it will not affect them.

Have you considered queueing for normal dungeons instead of vet?

zaria

disintegr8 wrote: »

Why do random vets when you get the same XP from normals?

I'll use vet group finder only for specific dungeons if I have a reason to run them, never for random.

You have an good chance of getting pledge as lots of the dungeon runs are pledge runs so two keys.
Also vet might be easier for some runs as average quality of players is so much better.
Darkshade 2 is the obvious candidate here healing this with headless chickens all over and ignoring adds with healer doing 50% dps and obviously on 3 other sides of room in poison phase.

Leveling a tank I had an group failing on keeper indril because of no AoE, left after 3 wipes an leveling tank had 30% of dps. Seriously skill point starved as you get then leveling random dungeons with 150% xp scrolls during an event so only tanking skills.

Anotherone773

The whole group finder system needs to be reworked. ZOS copies all the wrong parts from other games and wonders why they dont work well in this one. Three options i would love to see just in relation to dungeons:

1) The ability to Random the base game dungeons or the DLC dungeons and still get the Random bonus. Rather than be forced to queue for 40 or whatever dungeons.
2) The ability to queue only for dungeon groups that are starting fresh and a bonus ( such as double xp or something) for completing a dungeon that was in progress and you are a filler.
3) The ability to remove the roles queue and allow groups to run as whatever they want.

That would be a good start.