taleth wrote: »

All the nerf bat swings have really taken a toll on me. I used to love this game and it still has potential but it seems every time I make a build gear it out and start enjoying it; then bam a update comes and kills the gear sets and all the time and coin put into it. I am left back to drawing bord as a new carrot on a stick is introduced only to be nerfed in future. Games in past have done this to me and it makes it easy to jump ship when time comes but only to have them do same crap at some point. Is this just the life of mmos? Will there ever be a developer that makes surgical tweeks for balance insteat of a bludgeoning nerf bat?

I feel ur pain, i don't even run meta stuff and every change i manage to hold down - that setup then gets it in the knee next patch annoying.com

The main problem with eso is that they have this champ system and they want to keep power of the players at the same level despite the cp creeping up. I have no idea why they get this as a goal, but this is what they are doing and this is what annoys the most of the hardcore players. Especially keeping in mind eso nasty habit to make a long grind for the equipment and hide them behind the BOP, trials, PVP only (spell strategist anyone?) etc. I don't remember any other mmo who on purpose make players weaker to enforce them to get the new stuff all over again and again.

They are actually lucky that there is no other MMO with comparable graphics in the same setting (there are several in scifi and survival, but nothing in fantasy. I am not counting chinese *** like BDO or archeage - their graphics is closer to cartoon-ish).
As soon as Blizzards or someone will make similar graphics in fantasy setting - this game will lose 80% of the players. But of course it will depends on how bad that other game will be messed up. There are no ideal mmos - they all have been messed up to some degree. It just a question what will be less annoying for the player.

But for now - welcome to Elder Slow Nerfmire

-vovus

I don't despair at the changes in the game. The people who cry the most are the ones who run setups, particularly certain sets, which are obviously unbalanced at release, then throw a tantrum when they're brought back in line with the others. My solution is simple: I don't run those kind of sets. For example I never bothered crafting Sload's. Instead I run sets that give constantly high stats, which are useful for the type of content. For example if you combo 2 out of 3: Burning Spellweave, Law of Julianos, Mother's Sorrow (and even Infallible Mage if you're running solo or in less optimized groups) with a monster set of your choice on a PvE magicka DD you're probably within 2-3% of the maximum DPS output you could be doing as long as you're doing the rotation and the mechanics properly. Similarly in PvP, if you run a sustain set, a mitigation and/or damage one and a monster set you're quite effective if you know what you're doing. Slap something like 5 Bone Pirate 5 Veiled Heritance 2 Bloodspawn on a stamina char and you'll be set to go. When it comes to class skills, or broader changes, people will learn and adapt. If they fail to adapt it means they're too attached to a certain play style - often a skill-less one like pet sorc in PvE or brainless rune prison sorc in PvP - and they are unable to think of and learn something more effective. Good players will always find a way. bad ones who just copy what they hear it's META and don't put effort into understanding how builds work, won't.

tactx wrote: »

The meta players are the ones who typically play the most, therefore they'll get bored if their sets aren't nerfed and they're forced to farm something new and upgrade it.

I can't remember an MMO (that I've played anyway) that didn't always do sweeping nerfs. I think the office must have a Jenga block for each class and they all take turns and the one that falls first is the one to get the hardest nerfs.

Many MMO like WOW does it different, they update item levels regularly instead, this can also include relative nerfs as stuff on next level is not that much better but another class get much better gear.

Here we go again !

Vahrokh wrote: »

With ESO+ sub, I have my bank full of some duplicate motifs but the rest is all golded gear that now is completely useless.

I purchased every "wooden coffer" that can be obtained off the writs vendors and those coffers, too, are full of now useless golded gear and weapons.

Since in the past it used to be impossible to transmute stuff, I even have golded sets and weapons that are duplicates except for the trait. I think I have 8-9 Julianos staves!

ESO is truly a disaster in this.

Not useless deconstruct

Asardes wrote: »

I don't despair at the changes in the game. The people who cry the most are the ones who run setups, particularly certain sets, which are obviously unbalanced at release, then throw a tantrum when they're brought back in line with the others. My solution is simple: I don't run those kind of sets. For example I never bothered crafting Sload's. Instead I run sets that give constantly high stats, which are useful for the type of content. For example if you combo 2 out of 3: Burning Spellweave, Law of Julianos, Mother's Sorrow (and even Infallible Mage if you're running solo or in less optimized groups) with a monster set of your choice on a PvE magicka DD you're probably within 2-3% of the maximum DPS output you could be doing as long as you're doing the rotation and the mechanics properly. Similarly in PvP, if you run a sustain set, a mitigation and/or damage one and a monster set you're quite effective if you know what you're doing. Slap something like 5 Bone Pirate 5 Veiled Heritance 2 Bloodspawn on a stamina char and you'll be set to go. When it comes to class skills, or broader changes, people will learn and adapt. If they fail to adapt it means they're too attached to a certain play style - often a skill-less one like pet sorc in PvE or brainless rune prison sorc in PvP - and they are unable to think of and learn something more effective. Good players will always find a way. bad ones who just copy what they hear it's META and don't put effort into understanding how builds work, won't.

I don’t think the majority of complainers care a thing about changing old sets. Heck, half the fun left in this game is trying out new sets and combinations. I think that most of the complaints stem from such heavy-handed changes all at once, forcing people to change entire play styles, or be left behind. And even that wouldn’t be so bad if everyone had to adapt in this manner. However, it seems that, especially with the latest changes, most magicka builds are being forced to make changes that will put them even further behind stam builds, and they weren’t meta to begin with.

taleth wrote: »

All the nerf bat swings have really taken a toll on me. I used to love this game and it still has potential but it seems every time I make a build gear it out and start enjoying it; then bam a update comes and kills the gear sets and all the time and coin put into it. I am left back to drawing bord as a new carrot on a stick is introduced only to be nerfed in future. Games in past have done this to me and it makes it easy to jump ship when time comes but only to have them do same crap at some point. Is this just the life of mmos? Will there ever be a developer that makes surgical tweeks for balance insteat of a bludgeoning nerf bat?

Are you talking about the Torugs Pact enchant proc build?
Adjustments are needed, or you'll end up with a game that all players are using only your "working" build.

The current balance trend however does not make me happy by any mean. My problem with it is that it greatly facilitates the numbers.

We need solo/duo builds out there that are able to counter-sustain groups but at the same time to have a penalty when playing grouped.

An idea would be to bring really strong sets in the game that would give strong self heals and damage but on the other hand would inhibit the synergies or heals from other players or even a debuff when healed by others.

We need more options to PVP. If grouping is the only option left then PVP-ing will be boring, very boring.

Also before implementing my gear idea please make sure you get rid of invisibility, I know its complicated, but whose idea was to bring invisibility in PVP area?

I agree, whithin the last year people only had their DPS increased from 50k ST to 80k+
Stop nerf, we want sub 10min trials clears !

I think the biggest issues are these:

They don't have people in the studio (or very many of them - I know they have a few) that play the game on the level of some of the hard core players that know the game like the back of their hand. So they rely on feedback - which is a good thing at least if they don't have the former.

BUT - I wouldn't let a guy operate on me just because a Dr. explained a procedure to them. Obviously this isn't as important as surgery, but you get the same miscommunications and missteps in trying to understand and work off pieces of info and not experience. That's assuming you are getting your info from a reliable source - as we see from the forums, opinions are all over the place and even the reps sometimes aren't on the money. Or even people we look to for info like streamers or people from top end raid guilds don't really experience what the game is like for the general player. (Anyone that has run a dungeon or trial with a polished group vs a group of even decent players can tell you the huge difference in difficulty of that content and managing your role).

The other problem is they refuse to make small tweaks most of the time like they first talked about years ago. It would be way easier to tweak something a little % here or there in small patches as time goes by and see how it plays out than just bam - giant nerf or buff on big patch with 100 other big nerfs and buffs. (And the more experience someone had with the game, the easier it would be for them to know which things to tweak in a short period of time). They did do this recently with something and I hope to see more tiny changes like that instead of sweeping changes every major patch.

And the last thing is with their "always worry about what new stuff we can add to make money" mentality might be good for short term business, but bad for long term game health. Looking at old useless sets and making them useful, even if in a niche scenerio, would be great for the game even if it doesn't make people buy the new shiny DLC. Same with looking back at old sets they nerfed and then nerfed something else b/c that didn't work, which double killed the set (looking at you Black Rose, with nerf to it's ability, then nerf next patch to the ability it buffed and never doing anything with the old armor set).

As a vet player always looking for something to do, I do not want to farm a new build because they killed an existing one. I want to do it because there is a new interesting set that could be stronger, or even if equal works better for me in a different way. Nothing irritates me more than breaking down good gold gear because they couldn't figure out how to balance something and just killed a set. (Or holding it for years using up inventory hoping they will come to their senses).

Didgerion wrote: »

taleth wrote: »

All the nerf bat swings have really taken a toll on me. I used to love this game and it still has potential but it seems every time I make a build gear it out and start enjoying it; then bam a update comes and kills the gear sets and all the time and coin put into it. I am left back to drawing bord as a new carrot on a stick is introduced only to be nerfed in future. Games in past have done this to me and it makes it easy to jump ship when time comes but only to have them do same crap at some point. Is this just the life of mmos? Will there ever be a developer that makes surgical tweeks for balance insteat of a bludgeoning nerf bat?

Are you talking about the Torugs Pact enchant proc build?
Adjustments are needed, or you'll end up with a game that all players are using only your "working" build.

The current balance trend however does not make me happy by any mean. My problem with it is that it greatly facilitates the numbers.

We need solo/duo builds out there that are able to counter-sustain groups but at the same time to have a penalty when playing grouped.

An idea would be to bring really strong sets in the game that would give strong self heals and damage but on the other hand would inhibit the synergies or heals from other players or even a debuff when healed by others.

We need more options to PVP. If grouping is the only option left then PVP-ing will be boring, very boring.

Also before implementing my gear idea please make sure you get rid of invisibility, I know its complicated, but whose idea was to bring invisibility in PVP area?

No not talkin about torugs enchant thing more of things like killing unique builds by changing skill functionality like my melle mageblade or overload gank sorc etc. Yea overload gank hit hard but when overload was down I was a gimp sorc. Or the ability to soft stun a enemy with my old mageblade skill that knowone really used but got changed to some dumb heal that kills ya. It seems all builds lost diverity in classes and are pigeonholed into certain template playstyles. Certain gear made those playstyles work and now are junk so we are left with 5% usable sets out of the 95 junk sets.

zaria wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

With ESO+ sub, I have my bank full of some duplicate motifs but the rest is all golded gear that now is completely useless.

I purchased every "wooden coffer" that can be obtained off the writs vendors and those coffers, too, are full of now useless golded gear and weapons.
No
Since in the past it used to be impossible to transmute stuff, I even have golded sets and weapons that are duplicates except for the trait. I think I have 8-9 Julianos staves!

ESO is truly a disaster in this.

Julianos can just be recrafted. Why so many is it shock, fire and resto?
On the other hand Julianos is progression gear or secondary set on a healer. Crafted sets is trivial to fit between other sets.

64 to 72 Rosin. Even on PC, that's gotta be a good bit of gold.