It's About Trust

Scarbridge · November 2018

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

Biro123 · November 2018

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Lyserus · November 2018

Trust is the most valuable thing in the world, once betrayed, can never be truly recovered.'

Now since ZOS has break your trust, surely you would man up and tell them there is consequences for that?

So...

Can I have your stuff?

Ruinhorn · November 2018

God, really? MMO is a huge business, is it so difficult to understand? Despite everything you still play and

pay to play each month

It's not about trust and feelings. It's about a balance between income and investments developers and managers make into this game.

Valrien · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Protossyder · November 2018

https://media.giphy.com/media/L8XuphFGqlSfe/giphy.gif

Biro123 · November 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Do you not get bored with playing the same way? Sorcs are one class from a PVP perspective that haven't changed their playstyle forever.. Do you never want to respec to try new stuff only to find that there are no other workable options - until an update hits?
And again, from a PVP perspective, I think my sorc is now stronger than what I had before. Primarily from slotting boundless and the stam mobility nerfs. I'm now mobile again and can kite. Its different - and fun. Also the new Overload lends itself to kills from high sustained damage as opposed to burst, pause, burst, pause... different and fun. And more health/impen/resists means not needing to (or having bar-space for) shield-stack anymore = more time being offensive = more fun.

Over time, I've re-specced more than one toon from mag to stam and back.. completely re-building, re-assigning stats, sets, skill-morphs, CP's - just to try different ways of playing and to experiment with ideas. This is without even waiting for new balance patches..

The shield changes opened up new ideas for me, that's all.

Do you not experiment with your characters, chop and change their setup, tweak and finetune them - to sometimes scrap the idea and start again?

Bur really though, from your response - are you really complaining about the concept of having balance and gameplay changes? Or is it just a thinly disguised complaint about the shield-nerf?

Valrien · November 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Do you not get bored with playing the same way? Sorcs are one class from a PVP perspective that haven't changed their playstyle forever.. Do you never want to respec to try new stuff only to find that there are no other workable options - until an update hits?
And again, from a PVP perspective, I think my sorc is now stronger than what I had before. Primarily from slotting boundless and the stam mobility nerfs. I'm now mobile again and can kite. Its different - and fun. Also the new Overload lends itself to kills from high sustained damage as opposed to burst, pause, burst, pause... different and fun. And more health/impen/resists means not needing to (or having bar-space for) shield-stack anymore = more time being offensive = more fun.

Over time, I've re-specced more than one toon from mag to stam and back.. completely re-building, re-assigning stats, sets, skill-morphs, CP's - just to try different ways of playing and to experiment with ideas. This is without even waiting for new balance patches..

The shield changes opened up new ideas for me, that's all.

Do you not experiment with your characters, chop and change their setup, tweak and finetune them - to sometimes scrap the idea and start again?

When I find something that works, no. I personally am of the mind that 1.0-1.5 was the best time for the game, and that it should have stayed there (only doing bug fixes and small amounts of balance changes at a time to not grossly tilt the scales)

Sorc had a great playstyle 3-4 years ago and was insanely fun (especially without 1.2's awful Streak penalty). It did not need changing

Why would anyone change things just for the sake of changing things? It obviously doesn't make the majority of the playerbase any happier.

The casuals don't care because they don't even read their skill descriptions, and dedicated players are pissed that their character is now broken and their only option is to reroll

VaranisArano · November 2018

You know all that time and effort needed to create a new, good character build?

ZOS wants you to invest that time and effort, again and again, in large and small ways, as many times as they can get you to do it.

That's why they change the meta constantly in large and small ways.

Eventually you quit, tired of the rat race. Before that point, you and many other players like you have spent way more time and effort rebuilding than you otherwise would have. ZOS made money off that tine and effort, at least over all the whole game population.

That's why ZOS does it. It makes players play longer and thus spend more money over the whole game population. Thats why it won't change.

The only option is to quit the game or quit running the rat race, accepting that your character may not quite be meta and being content with that.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · November 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

You know all that time and effort needed to create a new, good character build?

ZOS wants you to invest that time and effort, again and again, in large and small ways, as many times as they can get you to do it.

That's why they change the meta constantly in large and small ways.

Eventually you quit, tired of the rat race. Before that point, you and many other players like you have spent way more time and effort rebuilding than you otherwise would have. ZOS made money off that tine and effort, at least over all the whole game population.

That's why ZOS does it. It makes players play longer and thus spend more money over the whole game population. Thats why it won't change.

The only option is to quit the game or quit running the rat race, accepting that your character may not quite be meta and being content with that.

This is my thought on the subject as well. At this point, it's either a ridiculous amount of incompetence or its intentional. Considering the mountains of feedback they ignore, I'm starting to lean towards intentional these days.

Unless things change soon, I think I'll be moving on too, or at least only logging on for dailies for a while to see if things improve. Lot of cool games on the horizon, and I've got a long backlog haha.

Kova · November 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Do you not get bored with playing the same way? Sorcs are one class from a PVP perspective that haven't changed their playstyle forever.. Do you never want to respec to try new stuff only to find that there are no other workable options - until an update hits?
And again, from a PVP perspective, I think my sorc is now stronger than what I had before. Primarily from slotting boundless and the stam mobility nerfs. I'm now mobile again and can kite. Its different - and fun. Also the new Overload lends itself to kills from high sustained damage as opposed to burst, pause, burst, pause... different and fun. And more health/impen/resists means not needing to (or having bar-space for) shield-stack anymore = more time being offensive = more fun.

Over time, I've re-specced more than one toon from mag to stam and back.. completely re-building, re-assigning stats, sets, skill-morphs, CP's - just to try different ways of playing and to experiment with ideas. This is without even waiting for new balance patches..

The shield changes opened up new ideas for me, that's all.

Do you not experiment with your characters, chop and change their setup, tweak and finetune them - to sometimes scrap the idea and start again?

When I find something that works, no. I personally am of the mind that 1.0-1.5 was the best time for the game, and that it should have stayed there (only doing bug fixes and small amounts of balance changes at a time to not grossly tilt the scales)

Sorc had a great playstyle 3-4 years ago and was insanely fun (especially without 1.2's awful Streak penalty). It did not need changing

Why would anyone change things just for the sake of changing things? It obviously doesn't make the majority of the playerbase any happier.

The casuals don't care because they don't even read their skill descriptions, and dedicated players are pissed that their character is now broken and their only option is to reroll

Oh if only I could taste 1.5 again!

S/b sorcs, duel wielding sorcs, pet sorcs, sorcs with 2h, double destro sorcs, sorcs running desert rose, sorcs using dawnbreaker, negate sorcs, sorcs streaking WITH momentum and around corners.

I remember fights only lasted more than a minute if two duelists were equal in skill. I remember all classes killing at the same speed, and build diversity was so expansive. I remember we could 1v1 emperors because the game rewarded skill instead of passive damage.

People tell you to adapt now and they seriously don't understand, or don't care, that it means running one setup and don't you dare stray away from it. I bet at least 80% of them haven't unslotted dawnbreaker in a year.

They just don't know what this game use to be, regardless of bugs.

AcadianPaladin · November 2018

I've learned to dread each significant update as each one makes my game less fun. Where I particularly agree with OP is that with each iteration it gets harder and harder to find the will and interest to 'adjust & adapt'.

Loss of trust? I think that may be a good way of looking at it. My first such loss of trust with ESO was when the larger DLC were reparsed as 'Chapters' and no longer were included in my ESO+. But I also do indeed feel a loss of trust when a character/playstyle I thoroughly enjoy gets nerfed into not enough fun to play.

I haven't quit the game but do confess that with each update, I look harder for a replacement. What I want is a massive scale (well beyond Oblivion or Skyrim in scope/size) open world medieval fantasy single player rpg. ESO - despite the drawback of being multiplayer - is the closest I can find. For now.

Chicharron · November 2018

Scarbridge wrote: »

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

Why do they all start like that?

I started playing in 2014
I started playing since Beta
I am ESO + subscriber

Does that give more value to your opinion?

Kel · November 2018

Scarbridge wrote: »

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

I know some who stubbornly refuse to believe this, but ESO is a MMO. Classes are constantly changing and "balanced". That's the nature of literally every single MMO in this genre. You are not ever going to find a MMO that doesn't do this. That's a given going in to any game in this genre....I'm always suprised at the number of people who do not understand this long standing aspect of games of this nature. Nothing is set, things will change fairly regularly.
One thing to be dissatisfied with changes, completely another to never expect them.

You don't have to like that, but it's undisputable in MMO's. Things are always changing. Can't deal with that, stop playing MMO's. Or at least, change your expectations.

Kiralyn2000 · November 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

I know some who stubbornly refuse to believe this, but ESO is a MMO. Classes are constantly changing and "balanced". That's the nature of literally every single MMO in this genre. You are not ever going to find a MMO that doesn't do this.

I know, right? I think back to what I went through, playing a Hunter in WoW from vanilla through Cataclysm.... the pendulum swings were amazing.

NoTimeToWait · November 2018

Chicharron wrote: »

Why do they all start like that?

I started playing in 2014
I started playing since Beta
I am ESO + subscriber

Does that give more value to your opinion?

Maybe because it does? You need to consider what kind of value this introduction produces. I think, it's both negative and positive value. I mean, if you kept playing the game that much time, you have experienced a lot of different game mechanics and changes. But you also have biased opinion and sometimes nostalgic ways of looking at things.

When you read such posts, you should keep this in mind and you will gain much more value after properly evaluating the opinion.

As for ESO+ subscribers... Well, they certainly experience game from somewhat different aspect than non-ESO+ players, but can't tell, whether it is more valuable or not.

At least I can gather more information from these introductions than without them

Abigail · November 2018

Valrien wrote: »

The casuals don't care because they don't even read their skill descriptions, and dedicated players are pissed that their character is now broken and their only option is to reroll

Woe there, Nellie. You want to be very careful about painting with too broad a brush; in so doing you're flying very close to the flame of elitism.

I am the most casual of casual players. I don't do group stuff at all, don't do PvP, and while I don't chase meta builds I do spend a great deal of time reviewing armor sets and skill combinations. Moreover, I was every bit as hacked at ZOS for recent nerfs which effected all FIVE of my max-level Sorcs. Indeed, when I discovered the pet-nerf bug I promptly cancelled my ESO+ subscription, not renewing until I'd verified they fixed it.

I get it that some folks believe their time investment in the game is more important than others', but don't kid yourself, bucko, very many of us peon casuals do pay attention and we do care.

valeriiya · November 2018

The only trust I have left for ZO$ is that with each DLC/Patch/Whatever we will get glitches, lag and bugs making the game nearly unplayable.

TheShadowScout · November 2018

Scarbridge wrote: »

It's About Trust

xaraan · November 2018

A lot of changes are good for the game, but I do agree they seem to often change some things just for the sake of change and having to completely rebuild characters or play-styles every quarter for a DLC is annoying and exhausting.

Would be nice if they at least would stick to change that is needed and not just add to it with whatever creative concept someone comes up with that no one asks for. (We all know these changes each patch).

Koolio · November 2018

I said this to a friend two years ago that still holds true.

He said “Man this game is great”

I replied “Yes it is, it just sucks because I know they with slowly and surely break everything you love about it”

Since then they have just about done it.

Valrien · November 2018

Kova wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Do you not get bored with playing the same way? Sorcs are one class from a PVP perspective that haven't changed their playstyle forever.. Do you never want to respec to try new stuff only to find that there are no other workable options - until an update hits?
And again, from a PVP perspective, I think my sorc is now stronger than what I had before. Primarily from slotting boundless and the stam mobility nerfs. I'm now mobile again and can kite. Its different - and fun. Also the new Overload lends itself to kills from high sustained damage as opposed to burst, pause, burst, pause... different and fun. And more health/impen/resists means not needing to (or having bar-space for) shield-stack anymore = more time being offensive = more fun.

Over time, I've re-specced more than one toon from mag to stam and back.. completely re-building, re-assigning stats, sets, skill-morphs, CP's - just to try different ways of playing and to experiment with ideas. This is without even waiting for new balance patches..

The shield changes opened up new ideas for me, that's all.

Do you not experiment with your characters, chop and change their setup, tweak and finetune them - to sometimes scrap the idea and start again?

When I find something that works, no. I personally am of the mind that 1.0-1.5 was the best time for the game, and that it should have stayed there (only doing bug fixes and small amounts of balance changes at a time to not grossly tilt the scales)

Sorc had a great playstyle 3-4 years ago and was insanely fun (especially without 1.2's awful Streak penalty). It did not need changing

Why would anyone change things just for the sake of changing things? It obviously doesn't make the majority of the playerbase any happier.

The casuals don't care because they don't even read their skill descriptions, and dedicated players are pissed that their character is now broken and their only option is to reroll

Oh if only I could taste 1.5 again!

S/b sorcs, duel wielding sorcs, pet sorcs, sorcs with 2h, double destro sorcs, sorcs running desert rose, sorcs using dawnbreaker, negate sorcs, sorcs streaking WITH momentum and around corners.

I remember fights only lasted more than a minute if two duelists were equal in skill. I remember all classes killing at the same speed, and build diversity was so expansive. I remember we could 1v1 emperors because the game rewarded skill instead of passive damage.

People tell you to adapt now and they seriously don't understand, or don't care, that it means running one setup and don't you dare stray away from it. I bet at least 80% of them haven't unslotted dawnbreaker in a year.

They just don't know what this game use to be, regardless of bugs.

Can we all take a sec to appreciate how true this post is?

p00tx · November 2018

Valrien wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Do you not get bored with playing the same way? Sorcs are one class from a PVP perspective that haven't changed their playstyle forever.. Do you never want to respec to try new stuff only to find that there are no other workable options - until an update hits?
And again, from a PVP perspective, I think my sorc is now stronger than what I had before. Primarily from slotting boundless and the stam mobility nerfs. I'm now mobile again and can kite. Its different - and fun. Also the new Overload lends itself to kills from high sustained damage as opposed to burst, pause, burst, pause... different and fun. And more health/impen/resists means not needing to (or having bar-space for) shield-stack anymore = more time being offensive = more fun.

Over time, I've re-specced more than one toon from mag to stam and back.. completely re-building, re-assigning stats, sets, skill-morphs, CP's - just to try different ways of playing and to experiment with ideas. This is without even waiting for new balance patches..

The shield changes opened up new ideas for me, that's all.

Do you not experiment with your characters, chop and change their setup, tweak and finetune them - to sometimes scrap the idea and start again?

When I find something that works, no. I personally am of the mind that 1.0-1.5 was the best time for the game, and that it should have stayed there (only doing bug fixes and small amounts of balance changes at a time to not grossly tilt the scales)

Sorc had a great playstyle 3-4 years ago and was insanely fun (especially without 1.2's awful Streak penalty). It did not need changing

Why would anyone change things just for the sake of changing things? It obviously doesn't make the majority of the playerbase any happier.

The casuals don't care because they don't even read their skill descriptions, and dedicated players are pissed that their character is now broken and their only option is to reroll

Oh if only I could taste 1.5 again!

S/b sorcs, duel wielding sorcs, pet sorcs, sorcs with 2h, double destro sorcs, sorcs running desert rose, sorcs using dawnbreaker, negate sorcs, sorcs streaking WITH momentum and around corners.

I remember fights only lasted more than a minute if two duelists were equal in skill. I remember all classes killing at the same speed, and build diversity was so expansive. I remember we could 1v1 emperors because the game rewarded skill instead of passive damage.

People tell you to adapt now and they seriously don't understand, or don't care, that it means running one setup and don't you dare stray away from it. I bet at least 80% of them haven't unslotted dawnbreaker in a year.

They just don't know what this game use to be, regardless of bugs.

Can we all take a sec to appreciate how true this post is?

No. People can still run any and all of this if they chose, and many do. If you're only hanging out with strict meta-humpers, it might be time to make some newer, more creative friends. That is no way to PvP, and it's no way to play a game, outside of competitive end-game PvE. Removing the shield stack meta is freeing everyone up to let go of the need to adhere to one way of playing, and forcing us all to think outside of the box. I get that theory crafting is not everyone's favorite thing (and that's totally okay), but it's a necessary part of character growth in a game like this. I would be bored out of my skull if I played the same characters the same way over and over again for years. Where is the challenge in that?

Valrien · November 2018

p00tx wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Kova wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

'Its about Trust'

Funny, that's exactly what I said to my son this-morning after finding out his bag wasn't really ready for school when yesterday he'd told me it was all ready...

But on topic though.. I don't agree. I like the changes. I was bored playing sorc - but these changes have made other options possible - made me interested in finding workable builds/playstyles - and the class that I'd stopped playing 5 months ago due to boredom - I'm playing again, and enjoying it!.

Nerfing every aspect of the class made you interested in playing it?

Please, tell me more

Do you not get bored with playing the same way? Sorcs are one class from a PVP perspective that haven't changed their playstyle forever.. Do you never want to respec to try new stuff only to find that there are no other workable options - until an update hits?
And again, from a PVP perspective, I think my sorc is now stronger than what I had before. Primarily from slotting boundless and the stam mobility nerfs. I'm now mobile again and can kite. Its different - and fun. Also the new Overload lends itself to kills from high sustained damage as opposed to burst, pause, burst, pause... different and fun. And more health/impen/resists means not needing to (or having bar-space for) shield-stack anymore = more time being offensive = more fun.

Over time, I've re-specced more than one toon from mag to stam and back.. completely re-building, re-assigning stats, sets, skill-morphs, CP's - just to try different ways of playing and to experiment with ideas. This is without even waiting for new balance patches..

The shield changes opened up new ideas for me, that's all.

Do you not experiment with your characters, chop and change their setup, tweak and finetune them - to sometimes scrap the idea and start again?

When I find something that works, no. I personally am of the mind that 1.0-1.5 was the best time for the game, and that it should have stayed there (only doing bug fixes and small amounts of balance changes at a time to not grossly tilt the scales)

Sorc had a great playstyle 3-4 years ago and was insanely fun (especially without 1.2's awful Streak penalty). It did not need changing

Why would anyone change things just for the sake of changing things? It obviously doesn't make the majority of the playerbase any happier.

The casuals don't care because they don't even read their skill descriptions, and dedicated players are pissed that their character is now broken and their only option is to reroll

Oh if only I could taste 1.5 again!

S/b sorcs, duel wielding sorcs, pet sorcs, sorcs with 2h, double destro sorcs, sorcs running desert rose, sorcs using dawnbreaker, negate sorcs, sorcs streaking WITH momentum and around corners.

I remember fights only lasted more than a minute if two duelists were equal in skill. I remember all classes killing at the same speed, and build diversity was so expansive. I remember we could 1v1 emperors because the game rewarded skill instead of passive damage.

People tell you to adapt now and they seriously don't understand, or don't care, that it means running one setup and don't you dare stray away from it. I bet at least 80% of them haven't unslotted dawnbreaker in a year.

They just don't know what this game use to be, regardless of bugs.

Can we all take a sec to appreciate how true this post is?

No. People can still run any and all of this if they chose, and many do. If you're only hanging out with strict meta-humpers, it might be time to make some newer, more creative friends. That is no way to PvP, and it's no way to play a game, outside of competitive end-game PvE. Removing the shield stack meta is freeing everyone up to let go of the need to adhere to one way of playing, and forcing us all to think outside of the box. I get that theory crafting is not everyone's favorite thing (and that's totally okay), but it's a necessary part of character growth in a game like this. I would be bored out of my skull if I played the same characters the same way over and over again for years. Where is the challenge in that?

People can run any of this and still do, but often die because they aren't viable playstyles anymore.

That's kind of the point of the post.

It's not even about following the meta. It's about not making anything that isn't the meta complete ass

Jameliel · November 2018

jabrone77 wrote: »

Scarbridge wrote: »

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

I know some who stubbornly refuse to believe this, but ESO is a MMO. Classes are constantly changing and "balanced". That's the nature of literally every single MMO in this genre. You are not ever going to find a MMO that doesn't do this. That's a given going in to any game in this genre....I'm always suprised at the number of people who do not understand this long standing aspect of games of this nature. Nothing is set, things will change fairly regularly.
One thing to be dissatisfied with changes, completely another to never expect them.

You don't have to like that, but it's undisputable in MMO's. Things are always changing. Can't deal with that, stop playing MMO's. Or at least, change your expectations.

Name another major MMO with such constant changes the majority hate. Past or present. Have played nearly all of them except WoW, and NONE of them have such constant and random ridiculous changes.

Girl_Number8 · November 2018

I luv theory crafting so I am always deleting characters and making and maxing out several new builds a dlc for PvP related content and new dungeons and trials. Zos will always change things and turn classes into crafters and gut playstyles which you can trust to happen again and again. I can understand where you are coming from OP, as this dlc was quits for a few of my friends.

Maybe take a break from the game for awhile after what they did to your sorcy and playstyle that was fun for you and then come back when you're ready for more abuse.

Tandor · November 2018

To my mind, if you want to play a single character and play it the same way for years on end then a single-player offline game is the only way to go, knowing that it is unlikely to be added to or otherwise changed over that time.

If, however, you opt for a multiplayer online game then you have to accept that it will be constantly evolving, and welcome that because it is the only way the game can be kept both balanced and fresh given the constant new content and changes in the evolving nuance of the game. There are only two ways of coping with that evolution, either by rolling new characters or by adapting to the changes to your single character. If every such change is seen as a kick in the teeth to be taken personally in a way that threatens your enjoyment of the game, then the MMO genre is not for you.

Valrien · November 2018

Tandor wrote: »

To my mind, if you want to play a single character and play it the same way for years on end then a single-player offline game is the only way to go, knowing that it is unlikely to be added to or otherwise changed over that time.

If, however, you opt for a multiplayer online game then you have to accept that it will be constantly evolving, and welcome that because it is the only way the game can be kept both balanced and fresh given the constant new content and changes in the evolving nuance of the game. There are only two ways of coping with that evolution, either by rolling new characters or by adapting to the changes to your single character. If every such change is seen as a kick in the teeth to be taken personally in a way that threatens your enjoyment of the game, then the MMO genre is not for you.

This is grossly incorrect, and reroll is never the answer in which it is so painful and mind-numbingly boring to actually reroll.

NO other MMO makes changes as awful and sporadic as ESO.

Not a single one.

For example, FFXIV does major class balancing once every 2 years (expansions), and only does small tweaks on a patch-by-patch basis

Because that's logical

Tandor · November 2018

Jameliel wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Scarbridge wrote: »

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

I know some who stubbornly refuse to believe this, but ESO is a MMO. Classes are constantly changing and "balanced". That's the nature of literally every single MMO in this genre. You are not ever going to find a MMO that doesn't do this. That's a given going in to any game in this genre....I'm always suprised at the number of people who do not understand this long standing aspect of games of this nature. Nothing is set, things will change fairly regularly.
One thing to be dissatisfied with changes, completely another to never expect them.

You don't have to like that, but it's undisputable in MMO's. Things are always changing. Can't deal with that, stop playing MMO's. Or at least, change your expectations.

Name another major MMO with such constant changes the majority hate. Past or present. Have played nearly all of them except WoW, and NONE of them have such constant and random ridiculous changes.

Where is the empirical data to support your claim that "the majority" hate this game's constant changes? Some loud voices on the forum or in zone chat don't constitute the majority of the playerbase, and a good many of those voices were equally loud 3 updates ago, then 2 updates ago, then last update and now this one. I've honestly lost count of how many times they were quitting the game for good. Even those who were quitting over strict principles with the crown crate issue are still around. I get that some people feel strongly about certain things, but the bottom line is that it's just a game - and one of many at that, so those people will either move on to a different one (most don't), or just have their say and then carry on playing as usual. Meanwhile everyone else will carry on regardless as they're either not materially affected or just accept and adapt. 'Twas ever thus in forum land.

Valrien · November 2018

Tandor wrote: »

Jameliel wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Scarbridge wrote: »

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

I know some who stubbornly refuse to believe this, but ESO is a MMO. Classes are constantly changing and "balanced". That's the nature of literally every single MMO in this genre. You are not ever going to find a MMO that doesn't do this. That's a given going in to any game in this genre....I'm always suprised at the number of people who do not understand this long standing aspect of games of this nature. Nothing is set, things will change fairly regularly.
One thing to be dissatisfied with changes, completely another to never expect them.

You don't have to like that, but it's undisputable in MMO's. Things are always changing. Can't deal with that, stop playing MMO's. Or at least, change your expectations.

Name another major MMO with such constant changes the majority hate. Past or present. Have played nearly all of them except WoW, and NONE of them have such constant and random ridiculous changes.

Where is the empirical data to support your claim that "the majority" hate this game's constant changes? Some loud voices on the forum or in zone chat don't constitute the majority of the playerbase, and a good many of those voices were equally loud 3 updates ago, then 2 updates ago, then last update and now this one. I've honestly lost count of how many times they were quitting the game for good. Even those who were quitting over strict principles with the crown crate issue are still around. I get that some people feel strongly about certain things, but the bottom line is that it's just a game - and one of many at that, so those people will either move on to a different one (most don't), or just have their say and then carry on playing as usual. Meanwhile everyone else will carry on regardless as they're either not materially affected or just accept and adapt. 'Twas ever thus in forum land.

Ohhhh, I see. You're one of those "If you don't like it, just leave" guys

Kel · November 2018

Jameliel wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

Scarbridge wrote: »

<vent>

I debated a long time whether to post this or not.

I understand the developers are always trying to "level the playing field" for everyone, which is nearly impossible when you have a game with both PvE and PvP merged together.

I started playing ESO back in early 2014, and I've invested many hours of my life in this game.

What the developers don't seem to understand (or care about) is that when you choose a character type and a style of play and you build your character, this takes a lot of time and resources.

You examine the various skill lines available, weapon types, armor, enchantments, accessories. You decide whether you're going to be magicka heavy, stamina heavy, or somewhere in between.

The beautiful thing, originally, about ESO, was that you could decide how you were going to play. You didn't have to be perfectly balanced with your stats. You could focus on one area and build that up. It takes a lot of time and investment. You have to level of course, you have to build or buy the correct type/blend of armor, same for your choice of weapons, jewelry, and all the associated enchantments, mundus stone, etc.

As I said, this takes a lot of thought and investment in time and resources. It's something you build and perfect over time.

Then, one day, you log in, and your style of play and how things work are totally changed.

This has happened to me 3 times now since 2014. For me and how I play a sorcerer, I will completely have to rebuild everything to adapt to the recent changes.

I have no interest in doing this a fourth time.

For a moment, I considered starting a brand new character and going on the journey all over again. But I have no trust in ESO that as soon as I become comfortable building up a new character and a new style of play that they won't change the rules of the game, once again. It's maddening and disappointing, especially for a game I pay to play each month.

</vent>

I know some who stubbornly refuse to believe this, but ESO is a MMO. Classes are constantly changing and "balanced". That's the nature of literally every single MMO in this genre. You are not ever going to find a MMO that doesn't do this. That's a given going in to any game in this genre....I'm always suprised at the number of people who do not understand this long standing aspect of games of this nature. Nothing is set, things will change fairly regularly.
One thing to be dissatisfied with changes, completely another to never expect them.

You don't have to like that, but it's undisputable in MMO's. Things are always changing. Can't deal with that, stop playing MMO's. Or at least, change your expectations.

Name another major MMO with such constant changes the majority hate. Past or present. Have played nearly all of them except WoW, and NONE of them have such constant and random ridiculous changes.

Sure, some do it more than others. But that changes nothing...the fact is that they all do it.
And yes, WoW, the most influential and popular MMO changes classes constantly. They don't wait 3 months to do it either, like ESO. If a class or skill is found to be overperforming/underperforming, sometimes they make changes in a hot fix. Your playstyle could change overnight.

Frequency doesn't change the fact that no MMO stays the same....sorry.